Attitude Era totally died at WM X7 2001. That's when everyone started tuning out. 2001 was just a transitional period for the WWE until we got to the Ruthless Agression era.
Not sure if was THE reason but it was part of the lead-up to the break-up. At the Barbershop, Shawn says something about wrestling Flair and how Marty would never be in match like that. The match was definitely booked to showcase Shawn in singles-action. But otherwise, the Rockers had a few matches leading up to the break-up that foreshadowed. Just typical tag-partners not getting along stuff (blaming each other for losses, not tagging out when you should, ect.)
Yep, lots of little hints. There was also an "Event Centre" promo hyping the Survivor Series, with the Rockers & Bushwackers talking, and you could clearly see how Shawn wanted to be anywhere else on the planet other than with those 3 losers. Nice little detail.
Yeah looking back, I'm surprised they didn't try to do something like that. Curt, Ric, and Razor had mad heat and Heenan could have played the JJ Dillion role.
I wish during Flair's first WWF run he was referred to as the nature boy and did more bragging about his material possession. Two of a handful of things that made his time in New York seem a bit off.
I may be in the extreme minority, but I actually liked X the best. Bret/Owen was five stars, HBK/Razor was five stars and put ladder matches on the planet. Two WWF World title matches, a falls count anywhere match with Macho/Crush, and some filler.
WM 17 was loads of fun with Austin/Rock, TLC II, Benoit/Angle, and Taker/HHH.
I remember that he very often pointed to the back of his robe, that said "Nature Boy". Felt like he wasn't allowed to say it, but he still showed it off a lot.
Wrestlemania 17 was so awesome in a vacuum, but the fall out was a bummer. 3 is probably the more 'good' Mania cause Hogan, Andre, Savage, Steamboat, etc. though 17 ultimately ended the Attitude era with the handshake of doom.
Yeah it must have had something do with Buddy Rodgers already being the "Nature Boy" to WWF fans. And actually, Flair didn't always wear "Nature Boy" robes in WWF. At Wrestlemania 8, his red robe simply said "Ric Flair" on the back.
Yeah.. but who in the heck remembered Buddy Rogers during those day?? They had Dibiase wrestling in a new persona without one mention of his days in the WWWF in the late 70's. That was way more relevant that Buddy Rogers in the 60's.
Ric Flair: 20 time World champion...but those other title reigns would have been for the woman's world title because Vince Russo would have been booking him.
Attitude Era died proper at WM 19. That's when both Austin and Rock retired from full-time competition for good, Brock became champion, Shawn's return to stealing the show, etc.
I'm actually going through that in my head now. I guess the timing wouldn't have worked, but if Hogan had done the mutual respect thing for Warrior and then when Warrior was celebrating, snuck back and hit him with a chair? That would have been awesome.
I would probably have X and 17 in my top two for sure. I always loved 14 too, they put so much effort into that show and while it didn't turn the tide against WCW, it definitely started it.
I've said many times that XIV, while not the best WM, was certainly the most important (aside from the first one). After WCW blew their chance with Starrcade, WWF totally delivered, and then some, with their biggest show. It's not a coincidence they started winning in the ratings again a few weeks later.
While Hogan did not really hit Warrior with a chair, he did do it metaphorically by making it clear he was still the star of the show despite not being champion.
WM3 and WM17 are still in the topmost tier, and then you have the secondary tier of WM30, WM20, WM10, WM19 and WM24. Personally I'd rank WM24 and WM19 ahead of the other three, but that's just me.
I think the Atitude era ended at WM19. The monday night wars era ended at WM17. As for me, 17 had the better match quality and I was super into the product at that point, BUT nothing compares to the excitement of a 13 year old fan in 1987. I was so pumped for that show. Almost every match on the card had feuds I wanted to see and even the matches that didn't (the opener with Can/Am vs. Muraco/Orton) had guys I liked/hated and cared about. It was just a wonderful time to be a fan of my age, the same way that late teens lived for 98/99 in WWF.
I would agree that the Attitude Era ended at Wrestlemania 17.
For all the attempts by the WWE to paint dX as the originators of "WWF Attitude", no one defined the era more than "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. It was his rise up the card after all that began to blur the lines of face/heel characteristics (in the WWF/E), so it makes sense that the day Austin abandoned his on-screen belief system, the Attitude Era died.
When those random WCW "stars" were shown up in the cheap seats with barely a mention, we probably should have all known right there and then that any invasion or merger angle was utterly doomed, right?
But it just doesn't really *mean* anything, does it? It's just one of their buzz phrases. It's like if we started to refer to Wrestlemania 20 as when it all began... again.
I'd agree with that. It was a new roster of champions from then on, HHH notwithstanding. Brock, Goldberg, Eddy, JBL, Cena in the next two years, all people who hadn't held the title during Attitude.
WM 19 is the last PPV with Austin (the REAL Austin, before feuding with Bischoff and Coach), and for that reason alone I agree. End of the Attitude era.
That etc there though, with one or two other matches exempted, covers a whooooole load of shite. Wrestling wise a lot of that show is almost unwatchable.
Definitely. What did that show get, a 1.8 buyrate? Something ridiculous for that era. If that show had sucked things really could have turned out different.
It's a matter of opinion, but I think the Attitude Era died later that year. 2002 was throwing dirt on the grave.
ReplyDeleteAre we still in the consensus of 30 deserving a top 3 best ever slot?
ReplyDeleteTop 10 maybe.
ReplyDeleteAttitude Era totally died at WM X7 2001. That's when everyone started tuning out. 2001 was just a transitional period for the WWE until we got to the Ruthless Agression era.
ReplyDeleteReally? A top 3?
ReplyDelete8:21 mark: Shawn can be seen whispering "I'm sorry, I love you".
ReplyDeleteI'm not disagreeing I just don't understand how 17 ended the Attitude Era.....what was it about 17 that gave the Attitude Era the Last Ride?
ReplyDeleteWasn't this match the reason Shawn turned on Marty?
ReplyDeleteThe Stone Cold heel turn was one of the worst turns ever. That would've been like turning Hogan heel after WM III.
ReplyDeleteSteve Austin turning heel. The death of WCW. Complete end of an era.
ReplyDeleteYou could even add that X-7 was really the last time Rock was a full time performer
ReplyDeleteNot sure if was THE reason but it was part of the lead-up to the break-up. At the Barbershop, Shawn says something about wrestling Flair and how Marty would never be in match like that. The match was definitely booked to showcase Shawn in singles-action. But otherwise, the Rockers had a few matches leading up to the break-up that foreshadowed. Just typical tag-partners not getting along stuff (blaming each other for losses, not tagging out when you should, ect.)
ReplyDeleteSame thing is coming with Abeyance/Brazilian. . . . .
ReplyDeleteRic, Curt, Shawn, and Razor would have been a GREAT WWE version of the Horsemen.
ReplyDeleteYep, lots of little hints. There was also an "Event Centre" promo hyping the Survivor Series, with the Rockers & Bushwackers talking, and you could clearly see how Shawn wanted to be anywhere else on the planet other than with those 3 losers. Nice little detail.
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me Shawn didn't have to do much acting in that promo.
ReplyDeleteYeah looking back, I'm surprised they didn't try to do something like that. Curt, Ric, and Razor had mad heat and Heenan could have played the JJ Dillion role.
ReplyDeletehaha, very possible. Also, he started growing chest hairs. That is the equivalent to an evil goatee.
ReplyDeleteI wish during Flair's first WWF run he was referred to as the nature boy and did more bragging about his material possession. Two of a handful of things that made his time in New York seem a bit off.
ReplyDeleteI may be in the extreme minority, but I actually liked X the best. Bret/Owen was five stars, HBK/Razor was five stars and put ladder matches on the planet. Two WWF World title matches, a falls count anywhere match with Macho/Crush, and some filler.
ReplyDeleteWM 17 was loads of fun with Austin/Rock, TLC II, Benoit/Angle, and Taker/HHH.
WM 3 was really a two match show.
I remember that he very often pointed to the back of his robe, that said "Nature Boy". Felt like he wasn't allowed to say it, but he still showed it off a lot.
ReplyDeleteDuring those years, I remember wanting the WWF Horsemen to be Ric, Perfect, Dibiase and Sid with Heenan as the manager. They would have ruled!
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 17 was so awesome in a vacuum, but the fall out was a bummer. 3 is probably the more 'good' Mania cause Hogan, Andre, Savage, Steamboat, etc. though 17 ultimately ended the Attitude era with the handshake of doom.
ReplyDeleteYeah it must have had something do with Buddy Rodgers already being the "Nature Boy" to WWF fans. And actually, Flair didn't always wear "Nature Boy" robes in WWF. At Wrestlemania 8, his red robe simply said "Ric Flair" on the back.
ReplyDeleteThey really needed to show Flair wearing a suit more.. he ALWAYS looked bad ass in a suit.
ReplyDeleteI think top 5.
ReplyDeleteI thunk the Attitude Era ended in 02
ReplyDeleteI wonder what Flair's career would've looked like had he stayed in the WWF from '91 until now.
ReplyDeleteYeah.. but who in the heck remembered Buddy Rogers during those day?? They had Dibiase wrestling in a new persona without one mention of his days in the WWWF in the late 70's. That was way more relevant that Buddy Rogers in the 60's.
ReplyDeleteTop 5 sounds about right.
ReplyDeleteProbably closer to Hogan turning at WM 6, since both it and 17 involved two guys who were the top of the company.
ReplyDeleteIt's up there, no doubt. Maybe not top 3, but history will be the judge of that.
ReplyDeleteTwo fantastic matches, excellent booking, great crowd, and Hogan, Rock, and Austin in the same ring together. At least top 5.
ReplyDeleteRic Flair: 20 time World champion...but those other title reigns would have been for the woman's world title because Vince Russo would have been booking him.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that I remember Hogan turning at WM6.
ReplyDeleteHe's making a comparison.
ReplyDeleteI'd agree with that. I always pegged it at the Brand Split.
ReplyDeleteRaw's color guy.
ReplyDeleteIt's a comparison, playing off him saying it'd be like Hogan turning at 3.
ReplyDeleteOh, right, right. Didn't read the above comment. I'll just go sit in a corner.
ReplyDeleteAttitude Era died proper at WM 19. That's when both Austin and Rock retired from full-time competition for good, Brock became champion, Shawn's return to stealing the show, etc.
ReplyDeleteYou're fired.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually going through that in my head now. I guess the timing wouldn't have worked, but if Hogan had done the mutual respect thing for Warrior and then when Warrior was celebrating, snuck back and hit him with a chair? That would have been awesome.
ReplyDeleteAs long as I don't get put in the Kiss My Ass club, we're good.
ReplyDeleteI think Attitude officially ended when they started showing those Sacrifice videos.
ReplyDeleteOut of curiosity, what do we call the era between Attitude and PG? The Burial era? The HHH Dominance Era?
ReplyDeleteI would probably have X and 17 in my top two for sure. I always loved 14 too, they put so much effort into that show and while it didn't turn the tide against WCW, it definitely started it.
ReplyDeleteRuthless Aggression is the official name, I think.
ReplyDeleteNo. No! Of course not. That'd be silly.
ReplyDelete....
*tosses the latest memo in the shredder*
All HHH all the time era.
ReplyDeleteReally three possible endings to the Attitude Era: WM 17, Survivor Series 2001, WM 19 in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah. That sounds familiar.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Rumble 2002 ended the Attitude era.
ReplyDeleteThat show did everything right except Booker T didn't win the title to give the feud a proper payoff.
ReplyDeleteNeither show has nothing on 9.
ReplyDeleteI've said many times that XIV, while not the best WM, was certainly the most important (aside from the first one). After WCW blew their chance with Starrcade, WWF totally delivered, and then some, with their biggest show. It's not a coincidence they started winning in the ratings again a few weeks later.
ReplyDeleteHe would have made a great feud with Bret Hart. I'd imagine he'd tweak his character a bit during the Attitude Era.
ReplyDeleteWhile Hogan did not really hit Warrior with a chair, he did do it metaphorically by making it clear he was still the star of the show despite not being champion.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened there?
ReplyDeleteJust loaded 14 up. I forgot how hot Sunny was in her prime.
ReplyDeleteShe was inching past her prime there...... 96/97 unequalled hotness at that time
ReplyDeleteAlso, someone seems to have one of those hilarious laser pointers.
ReplyDeleteThe RutHHHless Aggression Era
ReplyDeleteWM3 and WM17 are still in the topmost tier, and then you have the secondary tier of WM30, WM20, WM10, WM19 and WM24. Personally I'd rank WM24 and WM19 ahead of the other three, but that's just me.
ReplyDeleteI think the Atitude era ended at WM19. The monday night wars era ended at WM17. As for me, 17 had the better match quality and I was super into the product at that point, BUT nothing compares to the excitement of a 13 year old fan in 1987. I was so pumped for that show. Almost every match on the card had feuds I wanted to see and even the matches that didn't (the opener with Can/Am vs. Muraco/Orton) had guys I liked/hated and cared about. It was just a wonderful time to be a fan of my age, the same way that late teens lived for 98/99 in WWF.
ReplyDeleteThe brand split?
ReplyDeleteI would agree that the Attitude Era ended at Wrestlemania 17.
ReplyDeleteFor all the attempts by the WWE to paint dX as the originators of "WWF Attitude", no one defined the era more than "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. It was his rise up the card after all that began to blur the lines of face/heel characteristics (in the WWF/E), so it makes sense that the day Austin abandoned his on-screen belief system, the Attitude Era died.
As was already said, Ruthless agression has been the company's word in the past
ReplyDeleteWhen those random WCW "stars" were shown up in the cheap seats with barely a mention, we probably should have all known right there and then that any invasion or merger angle was utterly doomed, right?
ReplyDeleteWhen making an unexpected choice like that, it wouldn't hurt to explain why in your comment.
ReplyDeleteBut it just doesn't really *mean* anything, does it? It's just one of their buzz phrases. It's like if we started to refer to Wrestlemania 20 as when it all began... again.
ReplyDeleteI've never heard the term "Ruthless Aggression Era." If that is the name, it's awful.
ReplyDeleteI'd agree with that. It was a new roster of champions from then on, HHH notwithstanding. Brock, Goldberg, Eddy, JBL, Cena in the next two years, all people who hadn't held the title during Attitude.
ReplyDeleteWM 19 is the last PPV with Austin (the REAL Austin, before feuding with Bischoff and Coach), and for that reason alone I agree. End of the Attitude era.
ReplyDelete"Hogan, Andre, Savage, Steamboat, etc."
ReplyDeleteThat etc there though, with one or two other matches exempted, covers a whooooole load of shite. Wrestling wise a lot of that show is almost unwatchable.
Why are you named after such a terrible Dr Who story?
ReplyDeleteDefinitely. What did that show get, a 1.8 buyrate? Something ridiculous for that era. If that show had sucked things really could have turned out different.
ReplyDeleteGrew up with McCoy as the Doctor. Yes it's godawful. But it remains mighty dear to my heart.
ReplyDeleteLawler and JR was in my opinion not as good a team as Vince and Lawler.
ReplyDelete