What’s this? Rock Star Gary doesn’t blog about the current
WWE product. Hogwash! Blasphemy!
Oh, ye of little faith…
WWE Money in the Bank Special Event is June 29. The WWE
title is up for grabs in the main event. Fourteen-time World Champion John Cena
is involved and favored to win the strap. Oh, wait, if I’m going to discuss the
current WWE product I am mandated to call it a championship, right?
In spite of circumstances like dropping the NWA title to
Jack Veneno in the Dominican Republic back in 1982 and Carlos Colon in Puerto
Rico in 1983 Ric Flair is recognized as a sixteen-time World Champion. Think
what you want about the person behind the character, but in his day Ric Flair
was THE MAN.
While basic math dictates that Flair’s World title record
won’t be broken at the upcoming Special Event it is definitely being
threatened. Fifteen isn’t quite sixteen, right?
Fortunately John Cena is the poster boy for the WWE. His public
image remains phenomenal despite being involved in what some (Phil Mushnick)
consider low-brow entertainment. His contributions to the Make-A-Wish
Foundation help to prove what a selfless, honorable person John Cena truly is.
He’s a hero to children. Why not make him the king of the mountain?
Oh wait, that’s a TNA trophy. Wrong promotion, sorry.
In any case my issue with all of these World title victories
by Cena, Randy Orton, HHH, and Edge is that while they’re considered high-level
players in the WWE they are NOT legendary. Prior to Flair’s tenth title victory
in July 1993 Flair held a mystique that these WWE Superstars don’t. And it’s that mystique that separates him and
his record from the rest of the crowd.
I’m keeping Hulk Hogan apart from this list as he is
legendary notwithstanding his twelve World titles.
Unfortunately since Cena has only been a member of the WWE
roster for twelve years it is inevitable that he will break the World title
record. Let’s just hope that when number seventeen rolls around that WWE will treat
it as one of the most historical events in professional wrestling sports
entertainment history.
When I was a kid, I remember the NWA playing up Ric Flair being a 6-time world champion. I said to my dad "doesn't that mean he's lost it 5 times?". This was at a time when Hogan had held the WWF title for 5 years without losing it once. I was more impressed with Hogan's one reign that I was with Flair's multiple reigns.
ReplyDeleteMeh, records in wrestling stopped meaning anything to me when I learned that EDGE of all people was an ELEVEN time world champion.
ReplyDeleteSeems like the last record that was seen as sacred was Harley Race's seven NWA World titles.
I just don't think we should count the world heavyweight title the wwe used. Only wwe reigns should count. I know there was like a 18 month period where the whc belt was actually treated as being more important than the wwe title but oh well. If you dump those reigns the title #'s of the guys you listed are much more palpable.
ReplyDeleteA company holds 4 big shows a year: champions hold titles longer.
ReplyDeleteA company holds 12 big shows a year: champions hold titles for shorter reigns.
The long title reign is just a relic of an era past.
Records should absolutely be broken more often in wrestling. I don't understand why WWE doesn't do it more often. Like why hasn't there even been an attempt to break Goldberg's?
ReplyDeleteThat just means Flair managed to lose it 15 times.
ReplyDeleteWe're supposed to be impressed by these double-digit title wins, yet also when guys like Punk keep it for 434 days. So which is it?
I will be there at MITB, doing the "Cena Sucks" part of the "Let's go Cena/Cena Sucks" chant.
If you really can't stand Cena, stay quiet.
ReplyDeleteHogan losing to Andre felt like a much bigger deal at the time than even him beating Andre at WM3. People kinda expected him to win there.
ReplyDeleteEdge is one of the most overrated wrestlers in history.
ReplyDeleteBoo.
ReplyDeletePish posh, we all know Triple H is still waiting for the time when he can do this for himself.
ReplyDeleteOf Ric Flair's 16 title reigns, at least a dozen are worth something in an unexplainable intangible way.
ReplyDeleteCena maybe has 3 at the most.
It's fake though...
ReplyDeleteThat would require putting some thought into an angle.
ReplyDeleteHow much backlash do you think there will be when Cena breaks Flaii's record?
ReplyDeleteProve it.
ReplyDeleteEvery bit as fake as any awards show in pop culture, right?
ReplyDeleteI love how the Cena haters have STILL not understood this concept for 8 years and going now.
ReplyDeleteAgreed with cultstatus. The only way Cena goes down the card is when he raises his stupid arms during the "bwwwwwwwhhhhaahaaa" in the ring and you can hear crickets, and everyone goes to wiz-palace during his match.
ReplyDeletearound 2001-2002
ReplyDeleteBooker T: I am the FIVE TIME, FIVE TIME, etc etc"
RVD: "Wow, that's impressive, you LOST the WCW title 5 times??"
Booker : "... You didn't say that... Tell me you didn't just say that!"
Edge had buttrock music, a terrible spear, and had sex with Lita. I don't know where I'm going with this except to say these are things that happened.
ReplyDeleteI hope you aren't insinuating sex with Lita as a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the year, I'd wager.
ReplyDeleteSince she's been 18, wood.
ReplyDeleteAlso.....again, about the spear.....why is this a finishing move? It's essentially a shoulderblock to the ribs. 95% of the time, all the opponent has to do is move listlessly to the side to avoid it. MOVE OUT OF THE WAY, GUY!
ReplyDeleteAllowing one match per day that would require at least 180 days. Maintaining one thought for more than 14 days makes Vince's head explode.
ReplyDeleteHey, it's your body, VD it up as much as you want.
ReplyDeleteDamn right! MERICA!
ReplyDeleteIndeed. That CM Punk held the WWE title for over 13 months in this day and age is stunning.
ReplyDeleteWhere would the backlash be? Here? The die-hards here may definitely besmirch Cena's record-breaking title win. Elsewhere? Like in those who attend RAW I don't smell much backlash unless his title victory is in Chicago, Philly, or MSG.
ReplyDeleteNone. Does anyone REALLY care when it comes down to it? Titles are hardly given the same prestige as they used to.
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jerry Lawler something like a 100-time AWA Southern/Mid-Southern/Southern/Memphis/USWA/whatever-the-hell-we're-calling-it-this-week champion?
ReplyDeleteTitle reigns before 2001 meant that you were champion because the head guy thought you could sell tickets. So a guy like Flair being NWA champion for 3000 days meant a lot because he could draw. Bruno Sammartino being champ for 7 1/2 years meant a lot because it meant he packed arenas for the better part of a decade.
ReplyDeleteOnce WWF became the only game in town virtually anyone could be given the belt and it doesn't matter most of the time. While putting the belt on Bryan or Punk probably sells more merch, Cena draws with or without the belt. At the same time, putting the belt on Del Rio doesn't change anything. People go to see WWE now. They don't go to see the champion.
It's not like the old days. Fans aren't as invested in who has the world title anymore. The last three times winning the belt meant something to fans that I can think of off the top of my head were 1) Bryan winning at Mania 2) Punk winning at MITB and 3) RVD winning at One Night Stand. Each one of those were special circumstances of the writers actually crafting stories that fans cared about.
regional title
ReplyDeleteAnd he STILL wasn't on the same level as the title-less Cena!
ReplyDeleteYou can say that about every finisher! Hogan's leg drop? Move out of the way. Snuka splash? Move out of the way. People's Elbow? Move out of the way. Stone cold Stunner? Do a lot of core work so the kick doesn't double you over. Pedigree? Same thing. Sweet Chin Music? Just duck...
ReplyDeleteEtc, etc.
29 time USWA champ, I think.
ReplyDeleteHow many times has Cena won the WWE title? Because I've never counted HHH's vanity belt as a world title.
ReplyDeleteCena haters will care.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, Cena haters will care.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, Jef. I'm a full-blooded Cena despiser and I just shrug at it. Why bemoan the inevitable? We all know that Flair is a far more legendary figure than Cena is.
ReplyDeleteEleven WWE titles. Three WHC.
ReplyDeleteDamn, that's way more than I was expecting.
ReplyDelete11 times for a total of 1,191 days.
ReplyDeleteYou don't count Triple H's belt? You will deny Khali, Ziggler, Swagger, and Mark Henry the honor of being world champions???
Cena haters are like the hundreds of thousands of people that hate Floyd Mayweather but pay for his fights in hopes to see him lose.
ReplyDelete[Lisa Simpson] Why would they come to our concert just to boo us? [/Lisa Simpson]
Fair enough
ReplyDeleteAnd Christain.
ReplyDeleteAs some one said a while back, the moment Cena breaks Flair's record, it's gonna feel so wrong.
ReplyDeletePlus we'll be around to say how Cena was pretty much Hogan. A superhero for kids.
ReplyDeleteDon't try it at home.
ReplyDeleteTrue, although I believe the USWA referred to its belt as the "Unified World Championship." FWIW.
ReplyDeleteI think we've found our answer.
ReplyDeleteHe was NWA champ twice though so I didn't count him.
ReplyDeleteThough you can obviously argue that the post 1993 NWA title shouldn't count as a world belt either...
I'd like it if it just happened naturally, like a guys wins matches, but the commentators don't say his record until 6 months in, then you book it.
ReplyDeleteBecause some things are considered untouchable, but when someone that the haters don't like challenges it they spaz out. Case in point the Undertakers streak.
ReplyDeleteHe defended it in multiple organizations so I have less of an issue with the Unified title.
ReplyDeleteI...have no issue with ignoring these reigns.
ReplyDeleteToo bad HHH didn't put that much effort into the IC title.
"How do you learn to fall off a 15-foot ladder"
ReplyDeleteJust goes to show where WWE's priorities were.
ReplyDeleteI'd just like to point out that when I say "stupid arms", I say it with love. I love John Cena. He's like apple pie, coca cola, and Amuricah all wrapped up into a beef treat for the masses. BY GAWD he looks good shaking hands with celebrities! HE makes sick kids' dreams come true! I LOVE LIME GREEN WRIST BANDS, and SO DO ALL MY FRIENDS!!!! YAAAAYYYYY!!!!!! THE MARINE was the GREATEST ACTION MOVIE NOT STARRING STEVEN SEGAL!!! I could not go on living a day longer without the words HUSTLE, LOYALTY, RESPECT in GIANT letters above my BED!!! I LOVE THIS MAN!!!
ReplyDelete"He may have been broken in half"
ReplyDeleteHe just banished it for a few months.
ReplyDeleteLike I said before, I never understood his hatred of that title.
ReplyDeleteGood point. I take my comment back. Edge rules all sorts of ass.
ReplyDeleteLita could give you herpes over the phone.
ReplyDeleteIs Lita basically wrestlings Courtney Love at this point?
ReplyDeleteHe'll win it and lose it a few times on a PPV to pad his stats.
ReplyDeleteDon't think he won't.
To Roman Reigns and Cesaro.
ReplyDeleteIn all seriousness though.....
ReplyDelete,....I bet John Cena bleaches his buttcrack.
and that's especially if you are world champion today. Punk's long reign was a lot better for his standing than if he had lost and won the title back two or three times.
ReplyDeletealthough it's still not like they would give EVERYONE a run with the belt. even today they must have a certain amount of "faith" in you.
ReplyDeleteNo. Courtney isn't THAT big of a skank.
ReplyDeleteJudging by how we are talking about title records here....this would mean that Jericho is the worst IC champ of all time.
ReplyDeleteI...never thought about it like that.
ReplyDeleteAs what was said down below, he lost it 9 times.
ReplyDeletethis!
ReplyDelete"I can't wait for Brock Lesnar to kick his ass!"
(uhm... so essentially you are proving that yes, Cena is a draw)
Beef treat? Slim Jim? Oh yeah!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkkRj1aDNw4
That would mean the Honky Tonk Man is the greatest IC champ.
ReplyDeletebut it raised his profile a lot. although he had been "world champion" several times at that point, he still hasn't been "made" (so to speak). but because of that long title reign his status within the WWE has risen so much that you could easily put in him main programs whenever you want and he wouldn't be out of place.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the WWE Hardcore title?
ReplyDeleteYep. Between the kids that beg their parents to see him and the adults that hate him. people will pay to see John Cena.
ReplyDelete... I don't know about that one... I could see those two being equally skanky.
ReplyDeleteBut a LOT of those title wins were "pre-Unified", IIRC.
ReplyDeleteRaven's that record holder, IIRC.
ReplyDeleteWiki agrees, with 27 title runs for Raven. Longest single reign: Boss Man's 4th, at 97 days. Longest combined reigns: Steve Blackman, 6 runs over 172 days.
52 wrestlers combined for 229 reigns during the belt's run.
Big Boss Man, 97 days in his 4th reign.
ReplyDeleteWith the way titles just seem to drop, I don't think we'll ever see a title with over 200+ reigns.
ReplyDeleteI'd hate to be the scientist at the disease control center that had to figure THAT one out.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but what I meant was it was defended against non-USWA wrestlers so it made it more interesting.
ReplyDeleteI dunno. Abyss has held the TNA TV title for quite some time.
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about individual title reigns that a single title has, not days.
ReplyDeleteYou think you know him...
ReplyDeleteI say this as someone who can't stand Ric Flair....but John Cena going down in history as the all time record holder would be sickening.
ReplyDeleteCena should repeatedly fail in his attempt at a 17th World Title and that should be the catalyst for him to turn heel and win it. He should then hold it for like 2 years before retiring when he drops it.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the record holders for that belt is fun.
ReplyDeleteOther fun facts:
Al Snow is second on the reign length list, with a 91-day run. RVD had a 90-day run, and Steve Blackman also had an 89 day run with the belt.
Longest "one time only" reign: Undertaker at 58 days, followed by Road Dogg at 48 days. Road Dogg is also the only wrestler to lose the title due to injury.
Worst "reigns-days" ratio: Shawn Stasiak: FIFTEEN "reigns", LESS THAN ONE DAY COMBINED. Fuck. Other notable "minutesmen": Justin Credible (8 "reigns"), Spike Dudley (7 "reigns"), and William Regal (5 "reigns")
Your top 3 in reigns: Raven (27-94), Crash Holly (22-108), and Steven Richards (21-35)
Top 3 in days: Blackman (6-172), Boss Man (4-154), and Van Dam (4-134)
Four women had title runs, all under one day: Trish, Molly, Terri, and the future Victoria (IIRC. She's listed as "Godfather's Ho" in the title history).
Both Shane McMahon and Pat Patterson had six-day runs with the title.
The WWE World title, with a lineage back to 1963, has 117 reigns, with 10 of those ended with the title vacated.
ReplyDeleteThe WWE Intercontinental title, going back to 1979, has 143 reigns, with eight of them ended in vacated titles.
Problem is--the titles have gone back and forth on prestige.
ReplyDeleteHHH's vanity belt meant a fuck-ton more then JBL being champion.
The A-show had the WHC for several years.
That was only for like 18 months between 2004 and 2005. The wwe belt closed wm19 and wm22. After Batista beat hhh for the whc at 21 and a couple ppv rematches he swapped places with cena on smackdown and that shitty belt was #2 for there on out. It was a only a short run for the whc on top that was hhh at his most annoying. I don't recognize it and neither should you!
ReplyDeleteThe big gold belt was back on raw in 2009 at least.
ReplyDeleteWe've got notes from the latest Observer that indicate Ric Flair, in fact, is the greatest of all time. Tanahashi is said to be a close second, but maybe he's not. He had a five star match in a Japanese bath hour last week better than anything in North America. Make sure your ballots are in before next weeks double issue, to determine if Cena will break Flair's record. There are people in the company who feel strongly that there is a good chance he might maybe one day do it but they're not totally sure. If you have a 1 in the corner of your issue that means your subscription is up after this issue,
ReplyDelete4.5/10. I've seen better.
ReplyDeletei don't know, I'm not sure, I don't remember. 4.7 seems more right, but, I mean, you know, I can see where you might say 4.5. Plans change.
ReplyDelete... 4.8. No higher.
ReplyDeleteI agree that if/when Cena gets to 17 it should be a huge deal. They've long made mention of Flair being 16 times World Champion. So it would be cool if #17 was a huge deal for Cena to show that these things still mean something.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think Triple H idolizes Flair too much to try and "steal" his record with extra reigns at the end. Jut my opinion.
ReplyDelete