There are concerns within WWE that people aren't subscribing to the WWE Network because the product on TV isn't good enough, which can be largely attributed to lack of flow, storylines being forgotten or outright dropped.
One source pointed to Triple H and Vince McMahon having "different visions" and the ideas of the two clashing.
It's said that going into the summer, Triple H really wants more focus placed on under-card programs as a way to help build up the mid-card."
Thoughts? Do you think Triple H is trying to make the product better but Vince is in the way? If HHH was giving creative control 100% do you think we would see an elevation of the overall product? Do you think Vince would ever give Triple H the chance to do so while he's still alive? Thanks.
I do love the irony of HHH suddenly being the "one great hope" for a better smark product, after the decade of ultimate hate towards him. He's like Darth Vader throwing the Emperor down that hole.
ReplyDeleteStart booking and stop writing.
ReplyDeleteContinuity in storylines = fatter Vince paychecks. Why doesn't he see that?
ReplyDeleteSame thing. I know i heard there's a difference, but there really isn't. unless "booking =stuff I like", and "writing = stuff I don't like"
ReplyDeleteNXT has been terrible since 2 months before the Network launched. Only the two live events have delivered because they're cards jammed with the best workers.
ReplyDeleteBooking and writing may technically be the same thing but there is a massive difference between a booker and a bunch of writers.
ReplyDeleteYeah, makes me laugh.
ReplyDeleteBow down to the, now down to the King.
ReplyDeleteFucking in-laws, man.
ReplyDeleteHe and his wife are still being booked at the top of the card and are on the PPV posters, despite not being full-time wrestlers. So the idea of HHH taking over still doesn't fill me with hope.
ReplyDeleteIt means crafting storylines for a wrestling angle as opposed to presenting it like a TV show would. The wwe sucks the most when it tries to run a story like it belonged on a network series.
ReplyDeleteDespite the Reign of Terror (which was 75% him, but also 25% no one good enough on RAW to take it from him besides Booker T and Goldberg, if we're removing I-don't-want-the-belt HBK), he's always seemed to "get it" in terms of the business and there were stuff on the sheets in terms of him wanting to make it more of a traditional wrestling show. I remember a lot of stuff about him being a vocal opponent of the Diva Search nonsense and stuff, like after the infamous foul-mouth DS segment where they were tossing around "cum-guzzling gutter slut" on TV, HHH was like, "Well, I guess I'm gonna call Randy Orton a cocksucker next year!"
ReplyDeleteEven though he's had back to back 4 star + matches where he jobbed clean? Tonight might be a different story though, but so far, so good.
ReplyDeleteCall the fucking holds and moves during matches. It gets the "superstars" over.
ReplyDeleteBooker T was not good enough either.
ReplyDeleteDownload the app to find out what this hold is called!
ReplyDeleteThen don't run that type of angle.
ReplyDeleteThis is where I miss Cole/Tazz; with not as much pressure on them having to shill stories on SD, I thought they were fantastic together in terms of calling matches, with Cole sticking to PBP and Tazz explaining what the wrestlers were doing or going through, with a little fun banter in between.
ReplyDeleteI love those who were upset that he beat Bubba Ray. as if he was anywhere near main event level. All he did was a few hardcore matches against Stephen Richards, and mixed tags with Trish at that point. Let's put him over the new World heavyweight Champ!
ReplyDeleteI'm just tired of him. He's been in the main event picture since 1999. Step aside, bro. Let someone else develop into the alpha heel.
ReplyDeleteYOU BITE YOUR TONGUE, PEASANT, KING BOOKAH WAS MORE THAN WORTHY IN THE YEAR THREE AND TWO THOUSAND
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Bubba was that there was no reason for him to face HHH. It crushed any momentum he was getting.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised "you people" can count that high.
ReplyDeleteIt made for an ok Raw program. He took his shot, and came up short. It happens. Sometimes the champ will win a match against a mid-carder.
ReplyDeleteTaz was good back in the day but he is so god awful in TNA now. I really liked that Ross/Taz combo at the 04 Rumble.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he lives up to the Botchamania "INSIPID TAZ COMMENTARY" stuff these days.
ReplyDeleteIT'S TAZZ!!!
One of my fave HHH stories: he thought Kurt Angle was too small to be a world champ. So Gerald Brisco asked him who would win in a shoot between HHH and Angle and Hunter shut right up.
ReplyDeleteI just praised the Cole / Tazz combo in a thread a few days back, I really enjoyed. They had really good chemistry together and Tazz had enough balls to call a few wrestling holds.
ReplyDeleteThey never followed up on it and it killed his singles run. They punked out a dude with potential for no reason.
ReplyDeleteAnd shut up and wrestle.
ReplyDeleteFollow up on what? He lost. Feud over.
ReplyDeleteAnd stop snitching. There, I think we covered all the bases here.
ReplyDeleteSnitches get stitches.
ReplyDeleteFollow up on his push. Man, between the WWE fanboyism and the way you don't understand how wrestling works, I'm starting to think you work for WWE.
ReplyDeleteYes, all the money they have lost over the past 60 years. That is totally an insult!! I suck so much that I could work for WWE!!
ReplyDeleteCocksucker, now that's a word I hope makes it's way onto television eventually.
ReplyDeleteWhat does the past 60 years have to do with what is happening right now? How is WrestleMania 3 related to them drawing record low ratings today?
ReplyDeleteI take it you haven't seen Deadwood yet.
ReplyDeleteThat is the problem. There is nowhere for these guys to step aside to unless you can get into Hollywood.
ReplyDeleteWrestlers are awful actors. However, someone who would choose to wear tights and boots and pretend to fight someone for a living is likely a really outrageous person and probably have something interesting to say. Scripting every word out of there mouth prevents these personalities from ever influencing their wrestling character. The promo is a huge part of the art of pro wrestling, I'm shocked this is lost on Vince McMahon and his family.
ReplyDeleteThis has been the fundamental problem for ages. For too long most WWE programming is structured and developed as a scripted TV show, not a wrestling or even sports entertainment program. The feel is very "This is all just a show folks, actors playing characters. Don't concern yourself too much."
ReplyDeleteSadly, this isn't going to change until Vince is officially, 100% gone. Even then I doubt too much will change, but who the hell knows.
And plus, it lets you know who can cut it and who can't.
ReplyDeleteNXT is also only one hour. It's a lot easier to have a better flow and more focus when it's one hour instead of three. I'm not saying that Vince and the writing team don't deserve blame because they absolutely do, but it's not quite apples to apples.
ReplyDeleteI think Steph will carry on all of Vince's stupid tendencies.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. The commentary might be the biggest detriment to the presentation. It's that bad.
ReplyDeleteoh for sure
ReplyDeleteI don't watch much of the current product, but I did watch Wrestlemania via the Network, and I was shocked how badly the commentary hurt my enjoyment of the show, especially during the Cena-Wyatt and Brock-Undertaker matches.
ReplyDeleteBooking: WWE 1997, WCW 1989, AWA and WCCW Take Your Pick.
ReplyDeleteWriting: WWE 1998 - 2014
There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Those live events were awesome because they used those "terrible" shows as you call them to set them up.
ReplyDeleteI'm a lot less tired of him than I am of some of the other people on the card. HHH is entertaining at least. As opposed to;
ReplyDeleteCurtis Axel, Khali, Swagger (Without a partner), Kofi, The Miz, Sin Cara. Etc.
But Vince doesn't do wrestling. He does entertainment. He "makes movies."
ReplyDeleteThe commentary could have easily elevated the Taker match if they would have picked up on the story they were telling.
ReplyDeleteDidn't they hire a storyboard artist and a script girl at one point to try and do that very thing? And didn't they fire him after he started actually storyboarding and protesting when he'd point out logical flaws and contradictions?
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ReplyDeleteI think that Taz needs to have his hand held during commentary -- I'm sure he got TONS of notes and help when he was doing commentary for WWE. I think that TNA just lets him go out there and "do his thing" with no real feedback.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what you're talking about. I watched a bunch of those shows and they were just fine.
ReplyDeleteTazz/Cole felt like two buddies talking about wrestling,there was some banter between then but never overshadowing the wrestling.
ReplyDeleteVince's is senile.
ReplyDeleteShe's the reason we have soap opera writers.
ReplyDeletedo you mean if "WE" would have picked up? Because in hindsight, they were hinting that Taker just doesn't have it anymore. Just wanna make sure I get your comment.
ReplyDeleteHe insults the audience constantly. Whenever someone points out the lack of continuity he says "fans don't remember that anyway." Even when it would be easy to fix the continuity flaws he doesn't.
ReplyDeleteTakeover > Payback.
ReplyDeleteChris Kreski, who was one of the higher-ups in 2000 to '02 or so, was an elaborate storyboarder and continuity may have been at an all-time high then. I'm not sure when or why he left the company but being as he's deceased now, they're going to have to find someone else.
ReplyDeleteYou're forgetting all his hiatuses, plus the fact that he hasn't been a regular wrestler in 4 years, and he hasn't been the alpha heel in 8 years.
ReplyDeleteUnless SAG or the Writer's Guild wants to get involved. Then they do sports.
ReplyDeleteBut WWE is a TV product...so shouldn't you craft it like a TV product?
ReplyDeleteStephanie took over and made WWE today.
ReplyDeleteKreski was great,long term storylines with multiples layers.
They didn't know the finish.
ReplyDeleteSubscribe to the network ,and get full access to all wrestling holds, even on tablets and mobile devices!
ReplyDeleteReality shows aren't crafted like game shows, which aren't crafted like scripted shows, which aren't crafted like sporting events.
ReplyDeleteIs this like "The ref did not know about the finish until his hand hit for the 3 count" thing? biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard.
ReplyDeleteI've been watching NXT week to week since about a month before The Network launched and I have been enjoying it immensely. They seem to have the same workers working the same shows and killing it on regular shows. Mini feuds and nice sqush type matches to get guys over.
ReplyDeleteAnnouncers never know the finish ever.
ReplyDeleteWhen I watched the Takeover special, I noticed the commentary focused on the matches a lot more rather than schilling Apps and twitter every 5 minutes. That is a good thing...
ReplyDeleteDifference with NXT and WWE is that WWE writers have to fill 3 hours plus for Raw alone. They have a bigger roster to come up with stories for too. If Raw cut back to at least 2 hours, the product would be much improved....
And more of their roster
ReplyDeleteBuild a show with Jobbers,lowcarders,midcarders and main eventers.
And Steph made him miserable until he quit, apparently.
ReplyDeleteHe's been the alpha heel since Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteToss on raw tomorrow and see what the wwe crafting a tv product looks like.
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea. Give Vince the main event booking, and HHH everything else. Neither gets any say on what the other is doing.
ReplyDeleteOR give HHH Smackdown and Vince Raw and again, let them do the show how they want without interference.
I don't know what happened to Tazz, but he sucks balls with any other partner but Cole.
ReplyDeleteThis. Although Taz is significantly less awful now that Aces and 8's is over.
ReplyDeleteVince really does have contempt for his consumers. He's the anti Steve Jobs.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is really the question with HHH. When Vince croaks, how much is Stephanie going to influence HHH?
ReplyDeleteThis is a company that has some of the finest wrestling minds of the last quarter century on their payroll and don't use them in any way to book any of their product.
ReplyDeletePaul Heyman,Dusty Rhodes,Ric Flair hell they could get Jim Ross & Jim Cornette back to help book if they really wanted to but dont. Ricky Steamboat,Arn Anderson,Dutch Mantel, Jerry Lawler you don't think they could help book a few angles?
All so Steph can hire some dipshit who got canned after 2 months on the Bold & The Beautiful writing team.
The later would result in some hilariously inconsistent shows.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't the same thing at all. Writing is creating every aspect of the product. The dialogue, the characters, the plots.
ReplyDeleteBooking is where the booker crafts the plot, but leaves a lot of the rest up to others. Wrestlers are given an idea of the story and they come up with what they say. They also get a lot of input on their character and gimmick. Then you have agents that map out the match mechanics. I don't know how much WWE writers influence specific matches though.
In short, a writer is a creator while a booker is more of a manager.
If only there was a reactor in Titan Tower.
ReplyDeleteAnd when they had stupid shit to schill, they had fun doing it.
ReplyDelete"Look at Dawn! Look at Al!"
HBO doesn't count.
ReplyDeleteWhere'd you hear that?
ReplyDeleteMaybe he is just too far removed from being Taz the wrestler.
ReplyDeleteI imagine it would be similar to when Heyman was putting out awesome SD's with the Smackdown Six every week and Raw just had someone getting punished by having to face Kane every week.
ReplyDeleteThen went back to teaming with D-Von.
ReplyDeletePretty much. Thing is, I don't think any of them would do it. Heyman said he's fine performing but booking was miserable.
ReplyDeleteI think someone here posted it on a blog discussion last year or so.
ReplyDeleteDealing with Steph will do that to people. But as part of a larger booking team with the extra $$$ that comes with it, i could see some of them being tempted.
ReplyDeleteBut of course they'd be hesitant, unless ratings went up a full point in a month, the carpet would be yanked from them soon enough no matter what they put on. A McMahon is incapable of letting someone do something without their stamp of approval.
The mood finally changed.
ReplyDeletei havent seen this reported anywhere... when did this news bit come out?
ReplyDeleteI'm a union screenwriter and despite being a lifelong wrestling fan, based on the stories I've read, I'd NEVER want to work for WWE.
ReplyDeleteThat was the one time I exclusively watched Smackdown.
ReplyDeleteHHH just needs to knock up Steph again, eventually she'll have enough kids to want to stay home.
ReplyDeleteIf that's true, I now love Gerald Brisco. Not in a Pat Patterson way, though. I'll leave that type to Pat.
ReplyDeleteIf she lasted through 3 pregnancies i can't see anything keeping her away long term.
ReplyDeleteNo, she appears to be as dedicated as her father.
ReplyDeleteI just can't imagine things changing too much until Vince cedes power, and perhaps not even then. If Stephanie was chosen to be the one to run the company by Vince, instead of Shane, it is reasonable to assume she shares her father's philosophy of running the company. A coworker of mine was telling me that he doesn't trust HHH to run the company. I was telling him that I absolutely do, but I'm not sure how much power he will have vs, Stephanie, and how much her philosophy differs from his.
ReplyDeleteI always had the feeling that NXT was HHH's little reward for shutting the fuck up and doing what Vince and Steph say.
ReplyDeleteImagine how things will be if/when they have a boy. They will hot shot the title on that kid like his last name was Von Erric.
ReplyDeleteI'm 99.999999999% that's absolutely, positively not true. Didn't Cole get in hot water one time for accidentally spilling the beans about the title changing before the title match had ended?
ReplyDeleteI think it's just a matter of him actually benefiting from Vince's producing.
ReplyDeleteNo. I've heard nothing good from anyone that worked there. Patrice O'Neil was a writer for like 4 months and said how stupid it was.
ReplyDeleteStephanie is a carbon copy of Vince from what I've heard. Shane just didn't have the personality to deal with the political bullshit. Good for him. But part of me still wishes he'd hook up with someone like Mark Cuban to fuck them all over.
ReplyDeleteClose, but no cigar.
ReplyDeleteMillionaire who ought to be a billionaire.
ReplyDeleteIIRC Steph had nothing to do with it. It was the endless meetings and Vince being...well, Vince.
ReplyDeleteTo each their own but the show was vastly superior last year, IMO.
ReplyDeleteThat's not true
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 15 he said something about an interview with the new WWF champion
ReplyDeleteTo be fair all the terrible WCW stuff pre Russo was also booked, not written.
ReplyDeleteWrestling isn't a sport and shouldn't be shot like a sport. I think they should get more theatrical, not less.
ReplyDeleteJust because there's problems with the product doesn't mean the philosophy of shooting it like a TV show, not a sport is unsound.
ReplyDeleteBad guitar solos don't mean guitar solos are bad.