OK, as much as I'm a Dean Ambrose fan out of the trio, I can see Roman Reigns being THE guy for the next few years, as he's really improved in the ring and has connected with the fan base. However...
Of course he'd be better off. But sometimes you've just gotta take a shot. That being said, Cena winning and then dropping it to our Viking Space Lord is the biggest money match for Summerfest, especially with Reigns over HHH as the semi. Cena can carry the belt, it doesn't hurt him to lose right away, and he owes Brock a job anyway.
WWE history shows that people that win the championship for the first time in A. fluky ways like MITB cash-ins (Miz, Ziggler, Swagger) or B. multi-person matches (Mysterio, Big Show) really have flat reigns and doesn't give that initial title reign any muster. When the person is built up on a mission to win the title (Eddie, Bryan, Austin, etc.), the fans EAT IT UP.
So don't you think that Reigns would be better off winning his first title in a traditional 1 on 1 match at a major PPV? We can guess that whoever wins MITB is getting fed to Bork Laser at Summer Slam, so why make his first title reign a short one, when defeating Borklestein would give him 10 times more cred?
- Rob
Cena got his win back from his 2002 loss to Brock, they are even steven now!
ReplyDelete"He owes Brock a job anyway"
ReplyDeleteAnd a Lesnar always pays his debts.
Who says WWE doesn't do long term storyline planning?
ReplyDeleteIf Reigns doesn't win the title, I'd actually go HHH over Reigns at Summerslam. It's booking towards the future because when Roman does win the title, HHH can go "hey that's my title belt" then Reigns can beat him at WM where more people can see it.
ReplyDeleteBrock is a Lannister!
ReplyDeleteI want to see Lesnar destroy Cena in the ring and leave him a bloody mess. Then he walks out with the belts and no one hears from him again until Royal Rumble 2015
ReplyDeleteIf Cena didn't job to Brock in his big return when it would have made the most sense, I don't see him doing it now.
ReplyDeleteUnless Reigns can go for 30 minutes as a singles wrestler, I wouldn't give him the title just yet.
As much as I'd love to see Brock demolish Cena and win the WWE title, I just don't want to see Cena as champion ever again. I know it's inevitable that he'll have 5+ more reigns before he's done, but... but... I just can't take anymore RISING AGAINST THE ODDS that result in LOLCENAWINS.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, Reigns is not yet ready for Brock. He will be, but not yet.
You know what would be bad ass? If at the end of the #1 contender money in the bank match Lesner just shows up, destroys everyone, and grabs the breifcase ... then looks around and basically says ... "I dare you to take it from me."
ReplyDeleteCena vs Lesnar at Summerslam seems like the best best in terms of buys ... given the financial state of the company with the stock and layoffs, they need to bank on a sure thing for the second biggest show of the year.
I still hope Bray wins it tho.
If Brock wins the title at SummerSlam, that means he is dropping it at Night of Champions. Kinda pissing away him beating the Streak if he is going to lose on some random show in September.
ReplyDelete#HHHmath
ReplyDeleteIf anyone could pull off the defend once every 30 days, it's Brock. Assuming of course, they back a Brinks truck up to his house.
ReplyDeleteWhy does it mean he's dropping it at Night of Champions?
ReplyDeleteBecause he doesn't have the dates.
ReplyDeleteMaybe something can be worked out.
ReplyDeleteHe'll just defend the title at SE/PPVs and make the occasional TV appearance.
ReplyDeleteRemoving the part of Brock's brain that hates traveling is pretty much the only thing they can do.
ReplyDeleteOr he can just be a dick and hold the title the hostage until Royal Rumble. WWE has shown over the past year they can get by fine without a champion for months at a time.
ReplyDelete"WWE history shows that people that win the championship for the first time in A. fluky ways like MITB cash-ins (Miz, Ziggler, Swagger) or B. multi-person matches (Mysterio, Big Show) really have flat reigns and doesn't give that initial title reign any muster."
ReplyDeleteThe title reign isn't flat because of how they won it. It's because creative continued to book them like flukes and chumps after they won.
That would be awful.
ReplyDeleteCena didn't decide not to job yo Brock. The bookers booked him to win.
ReplyDeleteWhy is this concept still so hard for people to understand?
Good luck getting Brock to do that.
ReplyDeleteWhy would that be a problem though?
ReplyDeleteBecause he has no interest in it.
ReplyDeleteUm, he still has several dates left in his contract. Besides I don't see why Brock would have an issue with that, wrestling once a month only.
ReplyDeleteAll true. Edge is the only one to benefit but he was the first to cash in, had been in WWF for a decade or so and it fit his character to get a cheap win. CM Punk is about the only guy to overcome the fluke title win/multi-person match deal for his first run. That took years though.
ReplyDeleteIf Brock wanted to wrestle once a month, he'd do it. But hey, if you want Brock to wrestle at HIAC instead of WrestleMania, by all means...
ReplyDeleteSo if Cena wins then he's at 15 times champ? Could see it happening for that reason alone for the Flair-like stat.
ReplyDeleteNOT SAYING Cena's on Flair's level.
I would like to think if they make him champ he'd be willing to work a bit more.
ReplyDeleteYeah I know.
He gives zero fucks about being champ.
ReplyDeleteI 100% agree. Mysterio lost to everybody. Miz almost lost to Jerry Lawler twice. Ziggler's first title win was due to Vicki and then lost 15 minutes later. How is anyone supposed to succeed under those circumstances?
ReplyDeleteHe treated Cena's hat like Joffrey treated bastard babies.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Miz, he was the perfect chickinshit heel and that booking worked for him. They just didn't go far enough with it.
ReplyDeleteHe's got plenty of dates left on his contract. They could do taped promos for RAW, and he shows up to defend the title at PPVs. I'd love Lesnar to get the belt at SummerSlam, and have a death grip on the thing.
ReplyDeleteNumber of title reigns doesn't mean shit to me. If that were the case, Randy Orton would be 3X the star Shawn Michaels is.
ReplyDeleteI should have mentioned Punk as the exception to the rule in the OP.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Edge, it was more that his win was the culmination of a year long chase to get the title, where the chase actually helped establish his "will do anything, ultimate opportunist" character.
Of course it would be awful, but how would that be any different than the last 10 weeks of WWE programming?
ReplyDeleteWhat you said and what I said aren't mutually exclusive.
ReplyDeleteAre we positive that he's actually winning the belt?
ReplyDeleteHe obviously doesn't.
ReplyDeleteYes and no. In the case of Rey, they had built up the whole chase as "the ultimate underdog story", so to continue with that they kept putting him up against the giants (show and khali) just to show what an underdog it is. Its horrible booking for sure, but it also came with the character's chase.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Swagger, the MITB AND title win really came out of the blue, and he was losing every match before this. If they had him on a 2-3 month winning streak before that (or at the very least built something in where he had an issue with edge/jericho), at least the cash-in could have had some value.
The common theme is that they were booked so crappy before hand that a title win doesn't matter - perhaps its not the actual way they won.
Was that really necessary?
ReplyDeleteI think there's better use of Brock. I don't know what it is, but losing at NoC seems lame.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention Flair's probably had more bullshit reigns than Cena anyway.
ReplyDeleteSwagger should have never won the briefcase to begin with.
ReplyDeleteYeah, as someone pointed out before, Flair's 8 NWA reigns alone add up to 3,103 days as champ. That alone is far more days than Cena's 11 reigns as WWE champ (1,191) and 3 reigns as World champ (154).
ReplyDeletePlus, Flair's not really a 14 time world champion. If you want to count all of the local switches and tomfoolery you can get the number up to 25 or something.
That is, if you're that anal about fake title reigns in a predetermined sport.
True but if they had wanted Cena to lose at ER 2012, he would have lost. Cena is not mid 90's Shawn.
ReplyDeleteAt the time in his characters history, yes. Remember when he came up in ECW he was booked as a legit athlete and looked good in the ring against Hardy and Mark Henry. They had at least a good starting point with him talent wise to build him into a worthy challenger. By the time he won that briefcase it was too late.
ReplyDeleteI'd keep him undefeated for the next 2 years. He wins the title at the 2017 EC, Reigns beats him at 33.
ReplyDeleteI just think he's generally not good.
ReplyDeleteIt's not impossible they still could. If they only had him at Raw and PPVs (and have him skip a couple Raws as well), that's not a crazy amount of travel time. I doubt it, for the record, but cut out the house shows and Smackdowns and it's pretty much once a week. Cut a few Raws here or there (maybe even a PPV, headline it with a #1 contenders match or something), and it's even less.
ReplyDeleteI will be at Raw the night after MitB, so when Cena wins the title, make sure you watch so you can see someone stab themselves in the eye when Cena starts a 20 minute promo about how the champ is hurrrrrrr and his opponents are doo doo heads.
ReplyDeleteLesnar with a MitB briefcase would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteHe also had a much better persona in ECW with the laid-back personality and sleepy grin. My friend who used to watch but doesn't really any more saw a pic of him during that time making that face and thought he looked like a star.
ReplyDeleteWe can't make jokes around here?
ReplyDeleteMustn't forget about the part where he talks about his uphill battle and overcoming the odds.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I'm saying that if they didn't want to book him to lose to Brock's first big return, which was a HUGE deal, I don't see why they would do it now. Cena is their most proven, best drawing full-timer.
ReplyDeleteAnd this crowd, this crowd is why I love the WWE Universe. They may not like me but they speak their mind!!!!
ReplyDeleteI thought his original Euro trash and ranting against the USA was pretty good. Obviously WWE thought otherwise.
ReplyDeleteHe'll get Tarver's gimmick of being in the back of shots for no reason but never doing anything.
ReplyDeleteThe dude is an absolute freak of nature/fitness/ability, so why not just make that his character? He's strong, he's agile, he's flexible, he can do technically wrestling... hell, he's basically a smaller Brock.
ReplyDeleteI mean, they were kinda sorta doing that in giving him the "Andre Battle Royal" victory and pairing him with Heyman, but it's like the initial reason for pairing them together has already been forgotten. And when was the last time a "Paul Heyman Guy" was booked so weakly? Even Axel and Ryback got some victories, Cesaro seems to lose every week.
1) Even though it means supporting the unthinkable I could dig Cena-Brock II. Enough time has elapsed from their first encounter.
ReplyDelete2) Cesaro just needs to talk, I think he will get over, I think he can develop into a solid talker. It seems like we could go a lot of different directions with him and they all can work.
3) Oh darn.
4) I'm down for any documentary on Harley Race. He's usually the subject of some pretty good stories.
What would be the point? So Reigns wins the title. And then what? Is he going to defend it against challengers of varying worthiness levels? Are we going to pretend someone isn't going to eventually beat him for it? Do we close our eyes to the inevitability that this will all just happen again anyway? As though Reigns' reign will be the one which finally tears this Möbius strip and liberates us from the cyclic futility of theatrical professional grappling?
ReplyDeleteWe've seen this happen with every guy they try to push. Sammartino, Morales, Backlund, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Bret, Diesel, Shawn, Austin, Rock, HHH, Jericho, Undertaker, Big Show, Edge, Lesnar, Guerrero, Cena, Batista, Punk, etc... Every time one of these guys wins the belt, he silently sets ticking the countdown clock to his own defeat. So why should we care? Every title reign is just time spiraling down the drain of existence, dragging with it a whisper of our spirit and vitality. Where does it all go?
And why? Won't someone please tell me why?
It also helped because they put him into a feud with Cena afterwards for months. The rest of the MITB winners just treaded water afterwards.
ReplyDeleteVince can't see the money in Cesaro?
ReplyDeleteI guess he likes to leave money on the table.
I don't even think the Cesaro-Heyman pairing is a bad idea, it's just been executed poorly - the fans "respect" Heyman, so even when he's full-blown heel, the fans will still cheer for him and his charges. No reason that Cesaro could get the same "pro-heel smark cheering" that Punk did not too long ago (and Bryan, and Austin, and Rock, and plenty of others), since that generally leads to getting the entire audience behind the person, eventually.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the two men have been booked like jokes over the last few months, with Heyman always talking a big game, and then Cesaro losing the big matches. Makes no sense.
Because if he's going to be a top level guy, sooner or later he's going to have to interact with other top level guys. A distinct character would be helpful than in addition to his awesome moveset.
ReplyDeleteI'd really love RAW is PUTIN. I know there's not a chance in hell he'd show up, but it'd be freakin' awesome to have Putin run RAW. That'd be a fun three hours...well at least in my mind. I'm sure that the WWE would find a way to screw it up.
ReplyDeleteBest news I've heard all day!
ReplyDeleteHe can drive all the production people around now that their buses were taken away.
ReplyDeleteBe careful.
ReplyDeleteIf you mention leaving money on the table three teams into a mirror, Caliber appears behind you and offers to write a fitness article.
Wow I didn't expect this level of philosophy on this topic.
ReplyDeleteThe Jarrett/Roadie team wasn't all that bad. I hated those guys when I started watching. The RAW in February 1995 that has a New Headshrinkers-Blu Brothers match is the first RAW that I ever watched.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that looks freakin' terrible and makes Cesaro look like a cartoon.
ReplyDeleteOrton winning the belt only to have Triple H turn on him and hand it to Rollins would actually be pretty sweet. Not really sure how that would work for setting up Summerslam though.
ReplyDeleteMinor TJ: why did Cena give that promo after he beat Brock? It seemed like he was poised to take time off and didn't and it was apropos of nothing.
ReplyDeleteIt's the internet, how am I supposed to tell if someone's joking?
ReplyDeleteCena opening Raw only to be cut off by Heyman making a challenge on Brock's behalf strikes me as something that would be pretty good.
ReplyDeleteTitle reigns are a flat circle
ReplyDeleteYou know, that might actually get over after a while. I know people hate the Miz, but it would at least build some anticipation for a match. They could string him along for about 3-4 weeks and then have him face Rusev and get destroyed or something.
ReplyDeleteMiz being in Evolution would be like making Paul Roma a Horseman (and I like Paul Roma).
ReplyDeleteBrock losing his first match after beating the Undertaker would be dumb. Plus I don't think Reigns and Brock could have a good match together.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I am against another Cena title reign, if he will face Brock Lesnar at Summer Slam... make it so!!!
ReplyDeleteMy pet theory is that he was planning to leave for a bit, but the company convinced him to work through the injury.
ReplyDeleteThat's about the only thing that would calm the internet down, and even then it's not a sure thing.
ReplyDeleteI mean, he isn't wrong.
ReplyDeleteSeeing as no one here is familiar with sarcasm, you should close the register at this point.
ReplyDeleteat Arrival with Cesaro vs Zayn it was Jason Statham vs skinny Seth Rogen.
ReplyDeleteYou know...I love Cesaro and have for over a decade, was at some of his earliest matches here in the states and am all for him. I don't blame the cooling off since mania on him really..but I feel he has become a bit pedestrian and cliche in the ring also. At times even a bit awkward and just having clumsy segments of matches. Some of that I blame on a guy like RVD looking his age but it has seemed like a trend of late.
ReplyDeleteNeeds Heyman in Pope-hat.
ReplyDeleteSo tonight's Impact has EY defending the strap again. I suppose he defends it a lot on free TV because they only have like 4-5 PPV's a year now. Plus, with the Option C thing coming at Destination X, maybe they want to take the belt off him and put it on a heel for better booking if Sanada cashes in the X-Division title.
ReplyDeleteI can kind of agree with this but at the same time it MIGHT not be their fault. Had Bryan recovered the way they originally thought he would the story line would have possibly played off in Bryans favor, after that didn't happen they were stuck in this situation where the cat was out of the bag and they had to do something.
ReplyDeleteNow should they have made the injury angle part of the story to begin with is another argument but at the same time you could say that was a way of protecting him too. Injuries happen and that does not take away from his ability in the ring. If they didn't bring up the injury angle how do you get the belt off him? With a quick squash? That would be more damaging to his character.
Crazy e-mailer, Ziggler won his first title not in a flukey MITB cash in. He won it because Edge used a spear in a match while beating him.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Honestly I think I'd just give the belt to Cena b/c it's the least potentially dangerous route. I mean, the belt is only up for grabs b/c Bryan had to be stripped, and there's a solid chance that the fans are going to want the belt back on DBry when he comes back. That could be death for Reigns, whereas Cena (or even Wyatt, I suppose), gives you a full array of options going forward, because he can drop the belt at any time and won't look out of place holding it as a transitional champ.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure there is another ppv between MITB and SummerSlam
ReplyDeleteIf Young defending the belt every week makes for good tv (I have no idea if it does cause I don't watch) then they should be doing that every week. They need to drop the model of building towards ppv and all the cliches of american tv/ppv booking and simply try and put on a great two hours of wrestling tv on each week. Getting 6,000 PPV buys or 6,500 PPV buys is not going to save that company. They need week after week after week of great tv and probably months of great tv to wash away years of bad taste in our mouths so that you poor souls who watch tell the rest of us "yeah...I know but it's really really good right now and has been really really good" and then we start watching and tell others and then they ACTUALLY GROW AN AUDIENCE!
ReplyDeleteAnything they do that isn't focused on the above...is why they deserve to go under.
I agree with you completely. Almost take a WCW 1998 route with it and have your TV show #1 and worry about PPV's after.
ReplyDeleteMY blessed client.....
ReplyDeleteI agree, I expected him to come out of Mania taking his game to the next level and I'm not sure if it's the confusion with the Heyman pairing or what but he isn't there yet. And like you said maybe RVD isn't the right dance partner for him either. Could be any reason.
ReplyDeleteNow if the Heyman pairing has the end game of Brock vs. Cesaro it still could work because I expect even in a loss Cesaro would put himself at a higher level on the performance.
But I'm still waiting for that performance that will get him to the next phase.
You can't tell me that pointing out that the last 10 weeks have been pretty horrendous is going to hurt someone's feelings though, joking or not.
ReplyDeleteActually, I hope I hurt the writers' feelings. They're either awful writers or stuck in an impossible situation to write 6 hours of TV a week under the direction of people known for constantly changing their minds. It's probably a combination of both.
Skinner versus El Matador -- because the fans were begging for it!!!
ReplyDelete