Let’s talk about…..Ambrose/Rollins
Did the right guy win?
In the interest of full disclosure, I admit to briefly falling asleep during Sunday’s Money in the Bank event. In my own defense, I offer the following: it was only for about 4 minutes, and it was during the Rusev/Big E match, so I feel as though no further explanation is necessary.
When looking later at the picture of my sleeping form posted by my friend Erik on Facebook (Caption: “What should I draw on his face, guys?” To him I say, “Bullet dodged, motherf- I mean, classy response to your juvenile humor to keep this column above that sort of nonsense.”), I wondered if in my own mind, I had already seen what I needed to see at that point in the PPV. An excellent tag match to open the show, decent action from the ladies, and a ladder match that was clearly (and correctly in my assessment) not going to be topped in the main event.
Let’s posit a relatively non-bold theory here – Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins are currently engaging in the single best feud in the world of North American professional wrestling at this moment in time. And the beauty of the feud is that it is some of the most basic motivation that exists in professional wrestling history. There is no love triangle, there is no mysterious Authority (Although their involvement is there, we’ll get to that in a moment), there is no making a point to the ‘Universe’; there’s just pure, unadulterated hatred, the kind borne simply from “You betrayed me and mine, prepare to die.”
Professional wrestling, as a whole, needs so little to motivate a feud between two wrestlers. When I was a kid, I remember Ventura talking to Vince in character about how the wrestler who won got a larger share of the purse; that type of motivation to rip a guy’s head off made complete sense to me then, and still does. The main goal of a personal feud, however, needed more than just money; it needed a sense that one of the parties had been WRONGED, and he was going to do something about it no matter what the cost. Ambrose and Rollins have been more than up to this task, as you have one man who betrayed two others for what amounts to ‘money’ in a sense, while the other demands blood from the treacherous sellout. As we see Roman Reigns pushed into the main event ahead of what I personally believe his development has allowed (his skills as a ‘heavy’ are justifiably praised in tag matches; still, I remain unconvinced that he has the skills in transition wrestling and storytelling to be ready for the next level as a single, but I digress; whatever I believe, WWE is going to make us find out.), Rollins and Ambrose are truly telling a story that justifies the very real treason someone who spent the last two years with a brother-in-arms must feel when that brother turned.
So why, oh why, do I feel as though the wrong person won on Sunday?
Let’s examine problem number one – the Money in the Bank briefcase is not a title, per se. Normally, it would certainly make a great deal of sense to put a midlevel title, the IC or the US, on the heel wrestler and allow the face wrestler to go on the chase. Certainly everyone who posts here understands this; the money is in the chase for the babyface, so allowing him to chase a wrestler not just for revenge, but to have something to take from the other wrestler as a symbolic measure of that revenge. What concerns me is that Rollins has basically ‘won’ the feud in many ways already – since he possesses the briefcase already, and is not forced to defend it, Ambrose cannot take away what has already been won. In other words, it’s difficult for Ambrose to get revenge on Rollins when it isn’t possible for him to take away the benefit that Rollins turned for in the first place. No matter how much he beats up Rollins, Rollins got what he wanted.
(This is why I believe that one of the ways to create dramatic tension with the briefcase is to force it’s defense on each monthly PPV; it would increase the stalking of the champion if the briefcase holder wasn’t given a basically free pass, as they may cash it in early in fear of losing it, etc. Storyline possibilities would be much stronger if the briefcase was treated in a similar manner to a title.)
Problem number 2 - “So what,” you may ask, “Ambrose will keep ruining the cash-ins, and that’s more than enough as a measure of revenge.”
Perhaps.
But I find this flawed, and here’s why – The Authority is going to eventually ruin it. And they’re going to do so by doing exactly what their characters are supposed to do. Either Kane, or someone similar, is going to stick their nose into protecting Rollins in some way (slightly evident on Monday’s Raw), and by proxy, become involved in the feud as a featured player. And this feud does not require a 3rd or 4th party being a part of it to work. In fact, I think that it will be a detriment to it. And that’s not a slam on HHH or anything like that – The Authority has a vested interest in keeping that briefcase in their stable, so to speak, and would look foolish if they just let Rollins cash it in at the wrong time, or lose it to Ambrose, whatever you can come up with.
And in relation to the point, Ambrose ruining the cash-ins only works if, at some point, he actually ruins a cash-in. If he keeps ruining attempted cash-ins, it still ends up with Rollins having the briefcase, still making him the overall victor of the feud. Now, I have no problem with the heel going over in a feud, but I think that him going over from start to finish with regard to the macguffin is not good for the dramatic tension that this particular feud has. Rollins has no reason to continue to fight Ambrose at this point! He already won the match and has what he wants. His main reasoning, near as I can tell, for turning on the Shield is that he made a better deal, not because he hates Ambrose; he has no motivation to continue this.
Consider the following:
Ambrose wins Money in the Bank. Is the storyline better?
Well, let’s examine it from as little bias as is possible. If Ambrose wins the case, even with the Kane interference, he becomes, as Scott put it in the rant, the “the babyfacest babyface ever”, but he also maintains a brief period of advantage over Rollins in the feud. Ambrose winning the case allows the storyline to take a few different twists, depending on which way the Fed wants to go with it, to wit:
--HHH is embarrassed and angry, and orders Rollins to take Ambrose out. He forces Rollins to prove himself as worthy of his position with The Authority. He could even, in this scenario, tell Rollins that he meant what he said before the match - Rollins is on his own. In short, you create more dramatic possibility for Rollins’ character, as he now has to prove himself to HHH along with getting back the briefcase.
--Ambrose can be forced, in a scenario similar to the one I mentioned above, to defend the briefcase at Battleground. There, you can go a few different ways. You can have Rollins win the briefcase in a no-DQ style match, in which both wrestlers brutalize each other to the point of death, allowing for both wrestlers shining and getting Rollins over further when he somehow wins. You can have Rollins win the briefcase from Ambrose with tons of help from the Authority, keeping the feud going, continuing his establishment as a corporate toady, and increasing babyface sympathy for Ambrose at seeing him cheated out of the briefcase he overcame the odds to win. You can keep the briefcase with Ambrose, using some sort of gimmick match that allows both wrestlers to keep their heat, and Ambrose is probably the best guy to hold the case anyway, mostly due to his unpredictable character.
Now, most of my scenarios end up with Rollins having the briefcase anyway. However, what I aim to do is give the feud some balance – give the babyface the hope necessary to get him over. Rollins has no actual motivation to defend the briefcase, but Ambrose being forced to do so created much richer storyline potential, because NOW Rollins would have a legitimate, non-business related reason to hate Ambrose and want to see him dead; Ambrose took what was his, what he sacrificed the Shield for, and he wants it back.
He sold his soul for that case, and it belongs to HIM.
Regardless, these are excellent professional wrestlers as part of the most compelling storyline in wrestling today. And in the end, I think that the right guy ended up with the briefcase.
I just think the wrong guy won the match.
Rick Poehling
@mrsoze
I'm calling it now, Ambrose/Rollins for the title in a HIAC match main eventing the HIAC ppv hits 5 stars.
ReplyDeleteWow that was actually a really interesting read. I read every word of it which is not something I can claim for most articles. You presented some really great ideas here. I didn't watch MITB but I thought Rollins winning made the most sense. But you've effectively swayed me in that regard. As you said, Rollins with the briefcase still makes sense and their feud still works...but I love the way you laid it out here.
ReplyDeleteI *really* hope they let them cut loose in a No DQ setting and beat the hell out of each other. Because it could make both guys and be a special match.
LOL Ambrose will be jobbing to Alberto Del Rio on that PPV.
ReplyDeleteYou had to have Rollins win cheaply. The feud has only really just started, so the babyface needs all the more reason to seek revenge. Besides, for the benefit of the storyline, the match worked out perfectly because Ambrose got the better of Rollins, but the cheap finish lead to Rollins winning which dumps all of the heat on him, and then Ambrose will now feed off of that which will fuel the interest in him and the story. In essence, Ambrose was the "true" or moral victor in the match, so now he has to claim what is already his in the minds of the fans.
ReplyDeleteIn your scenario, it's more of a situation where the babyface has already gotten what he's deserved. That can work - at the right time - but it's not as satisfying as subconsciously telling the audience that "the guy you wanted to win should have, but he got screwed and he should receive your support until he does". The chase is better than the catch, and if Dean is going to be a character who won't rest until he's gotten over on somebody who has wronged him, then he should do that until he moves on to another angle.
Lastly, Rollins needed a big victory because heels need a surface reason to be taken seriously, and he only turned a month ago. Seth's at a higher level. Dean didn't need the victory because he's the guy saying, "I don't care that he won, I've still got beef with him and he hasn't earned shit".
I think this feud is the last thing that requires analysis or fantasy booking, because outside of Brock/Cena II it's the best thing they're serving up. Oh, and Paige, who is deliciously pale.
I don't actually disagree with your analysis here. I just think that It should have happened a month later, because it gives Rollins a stronger personal stake in the feud. He can still win the briefcase cheaply - but he has no reason to have beef with Ambrose at this point and basically never did. I think the feud gets stronger when both wrestlers fucking HATE each other, and Ambrose forcing Rollins to fight him for the very thing he sold his soul for gives the feud that more personal dimension and makes it that much more awesome. That having been said, excellent and valid points; I disagree only with your timing.
ReplyDeleteIf Ambrose refuses to stop hijacking Rollins' cash-in attempts - holding the briefcase ransom, if you will, in exchange for a grudge match - then the feud is tied in that. Dean's already going to make Seth's life hell even if Seth has the case.
ReplyDeleteI think most feuds could use tweaking, but hindsight's 20/20 and all that.
You're right, to a certain extent. I tried to cover that in the whole MITB is not a title section. I do think it should be defended like one; which gives Dean a more tangible way to exact his revenge, as opposed to the more esoteric. That having been said, I'll bow out now, as I violated my own rule of not commenting on my own work - if it doesn't speak for itself, it needed more time. But I found your response worth a reply. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteIt is, as Del Rio would say, destiny.
ReplyDeleteIf Ambrose won the case and then was forced to defend it and lost, well, it went so great for Mr. Kennedy's legitimacy...and I remember how much of a loser Rey looked like to me when Orton goaded him into losing his Rumble shot, Ambrose should be above that sort of thing.
ReplyDelete#Illuminati.
ReplyDeleteHow is the hell that match only #55?
ReplyDeleteI'm 1 match into this countdown and I already don't know if I want to continue it. C'mon man. That's one of the biggest WWE moments of easily the last five years....
Upon, looking forward into it...I can't. I got as far as the match with Ryuji ito, Yuko Miyamoto and company.
ReplyDeleteTo each their own, I suppose. This list isn't for me.
Well, they could have Ambrose chase Rollins for the MITB case. I mean, history proves that "the money is in the chase."
ReplyDeleteI kind of like the idea of defending the case on every PPV because it does put pressure on the holder to cash it in or else lose it.
ReplyDeleteBut at the same time, that's essentially just another midcard title for them to ignore.
Good read though.
You'll have to hook me up with that 'Moments of the Year' list when you're done with it. The build to a match, and reaction from folks who are extra psyched to have paid to party at the predetermined "show of the year" doesn't change match quality to me. The match is the match; it is separate to me.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that Ambrose should have won the briefcase. If that happens, what advantage has Rollins gained by leaving the Shield and joining up with the authority?
ReplyDeleteIt is strange enough that Reigns seems completely uninterested in gaining revenge on Rollins himself. (I'd like to throw it out there that Battleground should have seen Orton and Rollins team up to face Ambrose and Reigns). If Ambrose takes the case then his revenge is swift, and Rollins looks like a chump for failing to win with a stacked deck. (Being booked this way has done wonders for Orton hasn't ?)
For once I think we need to see how it plays out because while Vince/Steph/HHH/WWE have taken a lot of missteps this past year, The Shield have been almost impeccably booked.
Will ADR even be in the company then? I thought his contract was about to expire.
ReplyDeleteThis is not the way to answer your first critique of your post. You continue to defend yourself like a dick, and you will be torched. Just a heads up for future reference.
ReplyDeleteThat sucks for Barrett. Damn, it's like a curse for getting over. Bryan, Cesaro, Barrett.
ReplyDeleteOut of curiosity, does Reigns even have any merchandise, yet? More than half the reason Cena has stayed on top for this long is because of his merch sales. I really doubt Reigns can accomplish the same thing, especially so early.
ReplyDeleteAt least what we assumed regarding Reigns is now confirmed.
ReplyDeleteSo I hadn't heard the Brock reign was going to be so long. Any word on how they plan to make that work or will he perhaps not get it at Summerslam and they instead wait till Survivor Series or Rumble? I can't imagine with Vince supposedly cutting the budget by over 10 million that they are throwing extra Brock's way to make more dates.
ReplyDeleteHell of a run Bryan. Stupid injuries.
ReplyDeleteReigns: That's the plan until something changes. I can't imagine kids wanting to wear Roman Reigns shirts. Does he even have a catch phrase? Believe in Roman Reigns?
ReplyDeleteInterview: yawn
Barrett: Sounds like bad news.
M. Hardy: who cares.
Since he was mostly doing promos for the first 3 months of his gimmick, hopefully he can stay visible as an on air character during his recovery. BRING BACK THE PODIUM!!
ReplyDeleteTake the Hogan route of defending a couple times a year?
ReplyDeletePrediction: A Bunch of people in this thread will be utterly perplexed at how Brock Lesnar can hold the title from Summerslam until 'Mania with such limited dates. Why everyone fixates on that is more of a mystery to me.
ReplyDeleteTHIS. I have no idea why this has been so hard for people to fathom
ReplyDeleteIt's because he's a lazy fuck [/Baker]
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean by the "predetermined" show of the year? And, do you mean the way they built the match or how they hyped up it up prior?
ReplyDeleteThe podium was cut out of the budget
ReplyDeleteReally. People complain that Cena is on every week, so......it's ok to complain that Brock would not.....?
ReplyDeleteBecause to me this just doesn't seem to work in this age. It's like expecting people on Raw to sit through jobber matches we just don't live in that time anymore. I'm sure they can do it and make it work .....to some degree. However this sorta happened when Rock was champ and everyone was shitting on him missing like 2 shows during his reign.
ReplyDeleteLONG way down the road, and of course anything could happen... but does anyone else see a Reigns/Lesnar main event as a pretty horrible match? '03 Lesnar could carry about anyone... but not '15 Lesnar. And Reigns has YET to hold his own in a singles match.
ReplyDeleteBitchers gonna bitch
ReplyDeleteLesnar has had some really good matches against guys not named HHH.......make it No DQ and it'll work.
ReplyDeleteYep, they complain about part time people, yet they're sick of Cena, they're sick of Orton, they're sick of Kane, they're sick of HHH, they're sick of Del Rio, they're sick of Big Show, they're sick of Ryback, they're sick of Sheamus, etc etc.
ReplyDeleteI know. :( That's why I want them to bring it back. But I don't get that. were they renting it or something?
ReplyDeleteI'm not "utterly perplexed" and maybe it is as simple as they don't see the title as a big deal but when you are struggling financially, dealing with stock holders, slashing budgets....To say..Brock is a big enough draw to put the belt on but...we aren't going to have him at most of the shows during his reign...History shows you put a belt on a guy because he puts butts in seats...you then have that guy wrestler at your shows so that people either come to watch him beat people up or to get beat up.
ReplyDeleteIt has already been explained, on air, that Brock Lesnar only works when there is something historic for him to do. Him winning the title and showing up whenever the hell feels like it makes perfect sense for him where it did not for Rock
ReplyDeleteBlame it on the Reigns?
ReplyDeleteI'll agree that Brock's matches with Cena and Punk were amazing... but that's Cena and Punk... two elite, top level workers. At this point it's going to have to be an all out crazy brawl for it to work. Heyman will take the best bump of the match.
ReplyDelete... again... if this match ever comes to be.
I don't like most of those guys on that list, and I don't like bringing people back b/c it shows a lack of confidence in the current roster (one more reason why morale is so low, IMO), but Brock as champ could bring an air to the title that it's been missing, so I'm down.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to compare to UFC, how many times does the UFC champ defend? Not every week.
Props to them for addressing why Reigns, the enemy, was put in the match. And props to the commenter who called them doing that with the interview segment.
ReplyDeleteThey could just use it to build up other new stars in the meantime and maybe build up the IC and tag titles again.
ReplyDeleteWhich, of course, won't happen because they - well, Vince - have the attention span of a gold fish.
Meh Heyman is really the character, Brock is just the muscle. Heyman carrying the belt around telling people how his client will defend it when he fucking feels like it will be more than enough.
ReplyDeleteWhich is already outdated.
ReplyDeleteI think it was something to do with cutting down on the amount of buses that transport equipment around, and because the podium takes up a bunch of space it got future endeavoured.
ReplyDeleteYeah I was pretty surprised by that
ReplyDeleteAdd to the fact that Brock is a different kind of animal, and his sparseness adds to his aura.
ReplyDeleteI'll give you that, it might work. I really am not arguing against Brock as champ, I love Brock I was for him ending the streak I'm a Brock mark so it's fine with me. I'm just surprised by the length and the timing and will be interested on how it works.
ReplyDeleteReally? That is some bad news.
ReplyDeleteThe title was vacant so many times anyway, Brock holding it won't hurt.
ReplyDeleteI understand, and I didn't man to come of as confrontational but a lot of people have been talking about this for a while and flat out saying Brock as champ won't work because he won't be around when I think the angle just writes itself.
ReplyDeleteThe podium was just like the magic water in Space Jam. A placebo for confidence. Wade can do it just fine without it. In fact, arguably his best Bad News Announcement was on-stage at the Hall of Fame.
ReplyDeleteCOME ON WADE, DIG DEEP WHILE ON INJURY MAN! COME UP WITH SOME RNN NEWS LEVEL SHIT!
The other thing that strikes me about the Wrestlemania plans is if Bryan is healthy by then and back will "The Universe" accept Reigns as their #1 babyface?
ReplyDeleteThis!
ReplyDeleteThe last time a rumoured Wrestlemania main event title match was making the rounds this early was Orton vs HHH for Wrestlemania 21, and that...didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteThat's a HUGE if, at this rate.
ReplyDeleteFair enough, and I'm not totally against what you guys are saying, it just seems a bit risky in the current state of the business and for all of the positives you guys throw out about it there is a catch. It requires good booking which, isn't a guarantee.
ReplyDeleteThe Shareholders HAVE SOME BAD NEWS
ReplyDeleteCertainly I agree we are in a if Bryan wrestles again phase. If he has another surgery and it's like a 6 months recovery he would be back by Mania though....if everything goes right.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Reigns staying over. He's was good when had with two guys that did the legwork and he went crazy off the hot-tag. But he's been exposed in single's competition. He too limited and green to have 15-20 minute matches.
ReplyDeleteHHH's avatar vs. Vince's avatar!
ReplyDeleteCena vs Rock WM28!
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't even like what they have done with already. To me he is starting to seem like "another guy" in the main event level and nothing special.
ReplyDeleteWhatever you do, don't put the blame on you.
ReplyDeleteYour words kept appearing after you stopped typing! FRAUD!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that it will make the title seem much more important if a part timer holds on to it. It could almost be like the Summer of Punk, had he actually left more than 2 weeks. Like he defends it once at Survivor series, and we know that if it doesn't change hands there, he's gone for another 3 months. Major stakes.
ReplyDeleteIt works in THIS case. Because Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteI'd say the tag titles are well established again, as the Usos have been built super strong, even hanging with the top guys. But the IC and US titles, sorry, they're lost causes.
ReplyDeleteIt works in THIS case. Because Lesnar..
ReplyDeleteJust like Batista, right? LOL ... it'll be Lesnar vs Ambrose because he'll get over just like Bryan did and the fans will shit on Reigns just like they did Batista.
ReplyDeleteAs long as he has a singles feud, he should be fine.
ReplyDeleteA feud with HHH should help him out. Both getting over and in the ring
Vince Jordan : 1,000 Strawman: 0.
ReplyDeleteThe streak goes on...
You do realize that this is just a rumor, and not a cemented fact, though. In other news, AJ is not pregnant.
ReplyDeleteReigns gets cheers
ReplyDeleteYOU FUCKED UP!
ReplyDelete" In other news, AJ is not pregnant."
ReplyDeleteAnd we are all grateful for that!
Agreed... but seeing him in tag matches with Cena and the other super friends doesn't help him IMO.
ReplyDeleteCena vs. Wyatt last summer.
ReplyDeleteTriple H should honestly do the house show circuit with him for a while after and REALLY train the guy.
ReplyDeleteI never even bothered looking up what this "strawman argument" means. I figure it's just a cop out when you guys know I'm right, but refuse to admit it.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure HHH is going to do his damnist to get him over at Summerslam but we are quickly moving into a how many times can Hunter put people over on big shows and it still mean something. It's that sticky situation of if he jobs every huge card it doesn't mean anything but if he goes over on one of them everyone will be why is HHH going over (insert name).
ReplyDeleteMania seems to far away. He fights Hunter at Summerslam and then what? I'm curious how they keep upward momentum going from Hunter for 6 months. Surely they are smart enough to not have him and Grampa Dave run a program and expose Reigns right? I guess I could see him going over Cena at Survivor Series or something but I can see him cooling off pretty hard between now and then.
For someone that hates me, you're being quite chatty lately.
ReplyDeleteThe original plan that's as reported was that Lesnar was going to beat Bryan for the belt at SummerSlam.
ReplyDeleteI have said since the Rumble that Reigns would win in it 2015 and nothing will change my mind on that. He is their chosen one and Cena's career is winding down so it makes sense. Plus, Cena has taken a few film roles so they can easily write him off by having Brock destroy him
I think they should build him as someone who doesn't want to trust anyone. And he just does things on his own, not needing anyone's help. Just a beast who's pissed off at the world .
ReplyDeleteYes and they can change things at a moments notice but we are like a month and a half away from Brock getting the belt and starting this title run so.... it is happening, the question is, and kind of my point was, Will Vince see it all the way through?
ReplyDeleteI don't hate anyone on a message board... for all I know you are a computer program and not a human being. Of course their are a few computer programs I hate (Microsoft Dynamics anyone?)
ReplyDeleteI think I lost my point in there somewhere.
It means you create arguments for people. Like here. Many people have varying opinions. You've taken those arguments, applied them to "everyone" then rant.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. That is what I was hoping for... but he seems to be slowly creeping into to standard WWE upper card baby face territory
ReplyDeleteAttitude Era is over. Time to move on. Austin aint' coming back.
ReplyDeleteWe have strong tag champions, but the division itself is a joke. There aren't even half a dozen teams, let alone many challenger-worthy teams.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could give you credit for irony by having answered the strawman comment by making yet another strawman argument, but I don't know that you're THAT committed to the gimmick.
ReplyDeleteEvery argument/point you make is "they" and "you guys." Truly, it's hilarious, never change!
It will never be like it used to be. I'd say we should be happy that there's even a bit of attention given to it.
ReplyDeleteReigns is popular now, but Ambrose has far more upside in my opinion, and his feud with Seth Rollins is bearing that out. The issue the company has right now is that 'WWE-sponsored' top babyfaces quickly become targets for fan antipathy. Look how fast people turned on Batista, the 'golden goose' because of Bryan. Cena causes audible groans from the fanbase, while fans cheered CM Punk louder when he was a face and enjoyed him more as a heel.
ReplyDeleteRoman Reigns could secretly be the most charismatic person in the world, but it's strictly a rebellion against the establishment. He's the guy Vince and Triple H want, so it's naturally the guy the fans won't want. Bryan will eventually be back, and Dean Ambrose is liable to explode into the stratosphere this summer working with Rollins. Why saddle your horse to the weakest of the three character-wise AND workrate-wise? Because he's big and muscular - that's gonna blow up in their faces hard.
I think there is a risk of this happening. If they do the "cool him off" thing with Ambrose, fans will get pissed. If they keep Ambrose strong there is far less risk of this occurring.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it'll have a Warrior/Hogan or Batista/Undertaker vibe and somehow work.
ReplyDeleteThen put a secondary title on him and let him run through the midcard.
ReplyDeleteThis is where the lack of a tag division hurts. It used to be you'd put someone like him with a veteran and they taught him the ins and outs of the game. The Shield hid his deficiencies.
That's certainly in play.
ReplyDeleteNo it isn't dunkin donuts guy.
ReplyDeleteagain, why a gimmick? These are my honest opinions. People can have honest opinions that differ from the general one, and not be a "gimmick".
ReplyDeleteIf you do this you have to elevate the IC or US title. Not sure if they want to do that.
ReplyDeleteBrock being a "Hollywood Hogan" type champ could be great for the other titles. Not that I think they will take advantage of it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the title will feel like a big deal again if the champ isn't wrestling on tv twice a week.
ReplyDeleteWho am I to argue with such a well-reasoned point of view? I guess you got me.
ReplyDeleteIf he really is done he needs to be returning jobs to the whole damn roster. He beat everyone clean as a sheet.
ReplyDeleteIt should be a special occasion when the World champ defends. Either split the World and WWE titles or put the belts on Brock and elevate the secondary titles with the promise of a World title shot like TNA does with the X Division title.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, you kinda just assumed it was in play.
ReplyDeleteWell you did offer your own well thought out argument. And I'll take a Boston Kreme.
ReplyDeleteYour gimmick is that everyone on this board shares a single set of opinions except for you, so you spend all your arguing against hypothetical "you guys" and "everyone."
ReplyDeleteThe gimmick has nothing to do with your opinion, but your generalization of everyone else's.
This comment got buried in another thread but if Alberto Del Rio really is leaving soon, his ass needs to be going around the fucking horn returning jobs to the whole god damn roster. He got put over clean as a sheet vs. everyone.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, does it matter? Does anyone get any kind of rub off it?
ReplyDeleteIn the NWA, sure. Hogan is the total opposite for example.
ReplyDeleteBotchtastic AJ vs Roddy from ROH TV is 2 spots ahead of DB vs HHH from WM?
ReplyDelete... I don't get it?
ReplyDeleteI think it might be a nice change of pace to have the champ off tv. Might actually make his appearances feel like a big deal.
ReplyDeleteNo to this fantasy booking. No, no, no.
ReplyDelete1- Ambrose's lunatic/joker character is about destruction, chaos. He is a negative force, wanting to mess up the plans of others (in this case, Rollins). Promising to interfere whenever Rollins attempts to cash in fits in perfectly with this character. The theory of cashing in the briefcase to win the title creates a distraction (or alternate goal) when he hasn't accomplished rearranging Rollins' face.
2- Ambrose is a babyface; Rollins is coming off a hot face run and needs to make sure the fans boo him, and a cheap win helps this. Babyfaces (for me) are better in chase mode.
3- A babyface with the briefcase generally doesn't make sense, as he (generally) is "cheap" by challenging a wounded champion. Yes, that is the reward of winning MITB, and, yes, Ambrose would probably be cheered cashing in against a generic heel of the Orton level, but it still isn't a babyface way to win a title (and he should not be turned heel any time soon).
4- Ambrose doesn't need an additional reason to hate Rollins. The personal betrayal is much stronger. Remember his promo in London about the Undertaker? It wasn't Undertaker's history as a multiple time champion he targeted or even the Streak: it was the Dead Man's role as judge/jury/executioner that he (the Shield) was targeting.
Cena has been top dog for over a decade and hasn't changed his character at all in that time.
ReplyDeleteBatista's return backfired because of how they handled his first appearance back, his lack of effort and because everyone was in the middle of the Daniel Bryan Circlejerk. Batista did fine as a "chosen guy" for years.
Reigns will be fine.
2 years ago, Del Rio said he was retiring, quote, "in the next 2 years" so it appears he's IC Title fodder and on his way out. He bores me as much as the next guy but he was pushed and scripted poorly, IMO. Very athletic, super talented, but "same old shit" syndrome. Dude was the Malenko of this generation, IMO, for work ethic but suffered from overexposure. If he was booked like Ziggler (top star losses, great midcard matches, not pushed in your face) I think he'd have a far different legacy than his current "go away" one.
ReplyDeleteHis face turn was one of the worst of all time
ReplyDeleteThe only people going HURRRRR DURRRRR THIS IS GONNA BLOW UP IN THEIR FACES are the anti-Vince/HHH crew who are immune to reason, logic or facts.
ReplyDeleteYes, if Roman Reigns starts being a John Cena Lite, people will reject him. If he starts cutting awful, sarcastic promos about farts and photoshop jokes, people will turn on him quick.
Right now, he has the support of every crowd he's performing in front of. There's no reason to think that won't continue.
"The champion shouldn't be on every TV wrestling every week, it makes PPVs more special when they build to a big title defense" has become "OMG WTF Brock won't even be there every week! This is so stupid, ughhh!"
ReplyDeleteJust put a piece of tape over one of the hounds.
ReplyDeleteAlberto Del Rio is no Dean Malenko, sir.
ReplyDeleteWhenever Hogan appeared on TV, not including pre taped promos, it wad always treated as a huge deal and that happened like a few times a year
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't bad because Big Show worked his ass off to put him over. But they neutered ADR, taking away his cars and swagger and then turning him into a panderer too quickly. His babyface promos were awful.
ReplyDeleteI keep getting a Diesel vibe about this. Part of this is probably because I'm watching the WWE that is up on the network and the Raws are early into his title reign but its the guy that is limited in the ring, has the size and look but whose character (at this point for diesel) is kind of one note.
ReplyDeleteIt was awful.
ReplyDeleteAka, watch something happen, then claim the opposite should have happened, even if it contradicts something claimed the previous month.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's ever been a Daily Update headline that interested me less than "Matt Hardy Update".
ReplyDeleteYep, cause there is never ONE majority opinion here, with 18 people wholeheartedly agreeing with it right after. That NEVER happens here.
ReplyDeleteI'll say this, I love Reigns, think he's got all the perks in the world as far as being a Superstar goes, but is really untested in the singles department. Unfortunately, I think he's going to fall under the same problem that guys like Luger, Triple H, Orton, and Batista fell under. They were being groomed as the next GUY, but there's going to be someone else the fan's latch onto instead.
ReplyDeleteWith USA Luger, fans wanted Canadian Bret Hart, and would cheer loudly for Bret over Luger and even voted Bret as Superstar of the Year in 1993 over Luger.
With Triple H, it was guys like Austin, Foley, and the Rock (even though Rock was being groomed as well, WWE had to take a lot of detours to fix that thanks to fan reaction) that fans latched onto when these guys started doing their thing.
With Orton, it was his horrible babyface run that they tried to push him as the next guy and fans just didn't care, and latched onto Batista when he said a couple of cool things in backstage segments with Triple H.
With Batista, fan started quieting down on his act, and went crazy for Cena. Unfortunately, the switch of the champions happened, and suddenly Cena's act on Raw completely changed and fans started revolting, but Cena was THE GUY by Wrestlemania 22. And Batista was the injury prone guy that they would constantly try to get the other title onto whenever he was healthy enough to hold it.
The Eddie Guerrero dancing was the worst. I might actually hate Del Rio more than Ken Kennedy.
ReplyDeleteLOL I remember Keith saying that so much like it was 100% gonna happen.
ReplyDeleteThe champion isn't the draw anymore, though. It's whoever the main angle in the show is built around. CM Punk held the title for a long time but John Cena was still the real star of the show.
ReplyDelete*sniffles* We've got more notes on the Roman Reigns situation. According to those in power, his coronation will indeed be a literal one, and his gimmick will change to RoMAN, king of the jungle, complete with lion cloth unitard and all. Sources also indicate that Lesnar will in fact change his name to Bork Laser and fly to the ring in a mini UFO that the WWE has in storage, last used at Starrcade 90 for the Black Scorpion. This is all subject to change, as most plans do. *sniffles*
ReplyDeleteADR is a solid worker. I don't care what anyone else thinks. He's good.
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't rumored. That was announced.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Plus, you get Heyman out there on TV running his mouth every week that he's managing the champ. Who's not gonna find that entertaining?
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of pregnant, you know what movie sucks? Junior. Who the hell wanted to see a pregnant Schwarzenegger?
ReplyDeleteI dunno, Dave. I don't think anyone here is finding the gimmick humorous.
ReplyDeleteOther guys who had the size and the look, but were limited in the ring and kind of one-note wrestlers:
ReplyDeleteGoldberg
Batista
Hulk Hogan
Ultimate Warrior
Not saying Reigns will be as big as those guys ever were, but people have made a lot out of the same or less than Reigns brings to the table.
Also, he's 29, not 39. There's plenty of time for him to flesh out his game.
So spending an entire night in an angle involving puke? They may not be on the farts and photoshop yet but they're definitely approaching the neighborhood.
ReplyDeleteWhat gimmick?
ReplyDeleteRoman Reigns in a loin clothe?
ReplyDeleteBe still my beating erection.
I never saw it, but the Nostalgia Critic did a review of it, and I must agree.
ReplyDeleteYeah I'm not saying it won't work I just think they need to round him out more as a person and give people something besides..he's big and he's cool to latch onto.
ReplyDeleteYeah, one Raw written by Vince McMahon after he fired the head writer totally tanked Reigns for good. That's why he's getting booed by every crowd. They should just fire him now, really. Why waste time?
ReplyDeleteYep, love how he ignored the 2 years of super solid booking, and focused on the ONE night where the booking wasn't perfect.
ReplyDeleteHe already spiked the coffee.
ReplyDeleteAnd it was an entire night! I remember one segment where Steph barfed, but I guess I'm wrong. I guess she was throwing up on everyone all night. Man, I'm getting old.
ReplyDeleteThey desperately want him to fail, don't they?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure it's a manifestation of the "HURRRR DURRRR INDY GUYS ARE BETTER THAN WWE GUYS" thing.
ReplyDeleteGive it up. In 5 years, there will BE no "Indy guys."
It's certainly not confirmed because Meltzer says so. Someone might want to find out his accuracy percentage before applying the words "confirmed" and "Meltzer" in the same sentence.
ReplyDeleteI've gotten a lot of rub from Del Rio matches. Del Rio (real name Markie Suarez) was a helluva lucha talent, ***** matches like clockwork.
ReplyDeleteHe's solid but the character has nothing to offer, they took away all the unique elements.
ReplyDeleteGreat planning ahead by the WWE. Chances that we actually get Reigns/Lesanar? 1%
ReplyDeleteIf i report it, you can take it to the bank. But sometimes, the check may bounce, but sometimes it might not. Plans change, so I'm always right.
ReplyDelete"In other news, Vince decided to turn Seth Rollins heel the same day he actually turned heel, so clearly this whole year-long plan will stick."
ReplyDeleteMeltzer got so muc rub from Del Rio matches, the bed sheets turned into concrete.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that it is a bad direction to take a guy who was previously presented as a bad ass in riot gear. I think Reigns is great, I love his game and I actually think some people on here are a little rough on his in ring work, he is pretty good. They just need to tread carefully and not turn him into Cena-Lite or Smiling Sheamus. Look at the purgatory Sheamus is stuck in right now due to the awful writing and booking. They need to keep Reigns unique and keep out of barf and poop segments.
ReplyDeleteYou're not funny
ReplyDeleteYou're like a weather man; you can't be wrong.
ReplyDeleteHis jokes are hit-or-miss.
ReplyDeleteI don't even get what you're complaining about here. You want everything to be a year long plan where they stick to it to the letter no matter what? So are you upset that Daniel Bryan got inserted into the WM 30 main event?
ReplyDeleteAnybody who doesn't like this guy is just jealous they didn't think it up themselves.
ReplyDeleteDel Rio is the Mexican Rick Martel. Good looking, good wrestler, but not someone you should ever put in a main event
ReplyDeleteDo you know who the Illuminati are?
ReplyDeleteThe whole "Ohhhh they decided to turn Seth Rollins heel that day and so that's irrefutable proof that the Shield breakup sucks!" meme is so ridiculous. First off, that doesn't mean they originally conceived of the entire idea of turning Rollins THAT DAY. It just means they finally decided to pull the trigger on it that day. They'd been teasing The Shield breakup (including Rollins getting fed up and turning on them a few weeks before Mania) for a long time. It's obviously something they'd had on the back burner and thought about and were gonna do eventually, so who gives a shit when they made up their mind to actually do it?
ReplyDeleteAnd from how it's been booked since, including Rollins/Ambrose so far being a really awesome feud that's gotten both guys over as singles, I can't see why this is still being used as a negative.
One night that hasn't been repeated since and was written by a guy who generally doesn't write shows is not a direction.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm just saying it's wrestling news based on something that is planned to occur 9 months from now from a company who can't plan anything. So what kind of "news" is it, really?
ReplyDeleteI didn't say it sucks. I loved the breakup. Where did I say it sucks? I said it was short-sighted planning. Period. It happens that it was short-sighted and awesome.
ReplyDeleteShanon!
ReplyDeleteVery true. Plus, it feels like he's never been happy with WWE. Always bashing the people he works with and saying that he's leaving soon. Bitching that he had to go to developmental which I'm surprised that they didn't release him because of it.
ReplyDeleteAnother popular thing lately that I do not get is "HHH jobs so much that soon it won't mean anything."
ReplyDeleteHHH is golden. He's bulletproof. He could start a crusade to put one guy over clean on Raw a week, from Reigns down to Justin Gabriel and every single guy is going to get a massive rub from it.
Roman's been booked pretty damn near flawlessly for almost 2 years now, and he's legit super over with the fans. Christ, they were chanting "This is awesome" just at a staredown between him and HHH.
ReplyDeleteI know people are already pointing towards the Batista flop and think that's gonna happen again (either with Ambrose or Bryan himself again hijacking the crowds) but I 100% don't see that happening with Reigns. Batista flopped because he came back and just wasn't over. Reigns IS over, with the whole audience. He's gonna be the guy, and frankly, I'm looking forward to it.
Really is a shame though that Bryan missed his window to headline.
Also, I'm not one of your generalized guys who hates everything, so let's just back up on going there. I like some stuff, and I hate some stuff. No need to lump me into a group like you attempt to do with everyone.
ReplyDeleteSTOP MAKING SENSE AT ME!!!
ReplyDeleteThey need to keep the corporate push well hidden.
ReplyDeleteAww... but I like doing that... :(
ReplyDeleteok, ok.... Consider yourself not lumped! *thumbs up, cheap pop*
Interesting. If that's the plan, I hope they at least keep the title on Brock from Summerslam til Mania. If he trades it back and forth a bunch of times, they're going to lose a lot of the effect they're hoping for.
ReplyDeleteSounds good. I appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteYep, 2004 Batista comparisons are 100x more accurate than 2014 Batista comparisons.
ReplyDeleteEh, Bryan's moment was Mania, we saw they didn't know what to do with him from there. He was most likely getting sacrificed at Summerslam regardless. I doubt he has regrets if he never gets back in the ring. And from a fan's perspective, he's elevated into a "what if" scenario
ReplyDeleteFair enough, sorry to generalize on ya. It's just I see the "the breakup sucks because they made the decision the day of because bad rating lolz" reaction so much and think it's kinda crap, and used your comment to reply to that whole thought.
ReplyDeleteBut just overall, I also argue it wasn't really shortsighted. Again, the fact that they decided to pull the trigger that day doesn't make it shortsighted or rushed. That would imply that the breakup and Rollins turn was never on the table and never thought out until that day. I see zero proof of that, especially considering how they teased his heel turn just a few months prior.
Forget it, dude. It's ovah. Time to start from scratch and let Roman join TNA.
ReplyDeleteHe's as funny as the real Meltzer is accurate.
ReplyDeleteYUP. Except 2014 Reigns is already a way better worker with way more athletic upside than 2004 Batista ever was.
ReplyDeleteShortsighted in a sense they should have had themes and outfit looks ready from the get-go instead of slight week by week changes
ReplyDelete"What's Greco Rules doing in the Impact Zone??"
ReplyDeletewhat single match have you seen that was bad? I don't get why people say he's "limited". I haven't seen him get blown up and he seems like a good power type wrestler. He's not going to do the spots someone like Seth could do, but he shouldn't. Someone his size/look doesn't need to be doing moonsaults of whatever
ReplyDeleteI think you've got a straw man argument on your hands. Calm down Stan.
ReplyDeleteDid I say it tanked him? Did I say he's done? Did I say I don't like Reigns? No. Just that a story arc involving puke isn't a good direction and that's what they chose.
I can't stand this "Did I specifically say this?" argument, when it's quite clear that it was implied. You don't have to say it word for word, we can read between the lines.
ReplyDeleteEh, that's so nitpicky man. Rollins debuted his supervillian gear what, 2 weeks after the turn? Same for Ambrose's greaser/slacker gear. And Rollins came out to his new music the next week. I dunno, it seemed like that stuff developed very quickly and organically to me. (Not saying I like their new music, especially Ambrose's. But they've overall been in a rut with new theme music for awhile now.)
ReplyDeleteWhen TNA goes under I am going to hire Tenay to go around being shocked that I am wherever i am. "WHAT'S PARALLAX1978 DOING AT PLANET FITNESS?!?!?!?!?!?
ReplyDeleteClearly you can't though. Because you so badly misinterpreted my correct analysis that the puke segment was in the same neighborhood as poopy jokes.
ReplyDeleteWell, it's certainly not better than the "Porn Peddling gimmick". Just when we thought your career was dead when Scott banned pictures, you found away to adapt and evolved. You proved that's there's always a plan B.
ReplyDeleteImplying that they're gonna ruin him.
ReplyDeleteThey certainly didn't ruin Cena. And Stan was the person who said the crowd would turn on Reigns.
ReplyDelete