Didn't Bret get some heat because this match went longer than it should have? He really should've gotten a medal for reducing the time we had to spend on the Undertaker-Undertaker match.
It was interesting to see the escape-the-cage rules followed to their natural end here, as Owen has no qualms about just trying to get out at every opportunity rather than trying to actually fight his brother. Bret eventually follows suit, which makes sense since (if you remember his initial reservations about ever fighting his brother in the first place) in the back of his mind he still wanted to just beat Owen without actually hurting him.
Short-lived gimmick theatre....Bret as the "master of the steel cage match." I don't even think Bret had ever even been in a high-profile cage match before this and yet in the buildup to Summerslam 94, Bret was suddenly heralded as the best cage wrestler ever and Owen had to beat him at his own game. The interesting thing is, they actually stuck with the 'Bret is unbeatable in the cage' gimmick for a few years until Sid beat him in early 1997, which of course led to that infamous Bret meltdown.
IMO one of the most overrate matches of all time. And I'm a huge Bret Hart fan (and I like Owen's work too). Was it bad? Nope. But it wasn't five stars or even 4. Probably 3. After being exposed to NWA style cage matches the escape the cage WWF rules just didn't work as well for me. And this match glorified those rules. And not only was the emphasis on numerous escape attempts a detriment, but tons of those "saves" violated rules and laws of physics.
WM10. Five star match between the two. Summerslam 94? not so much.
Although I've seen very few NWA cage matches, I definitely agree with you about this match being overrated as fuck. Their Wrestlemania match is absolutely five stars, but this match has always struck me as just being goofy as hell.
This is like the WM12 Ironman match. I personally love it, but completely understand if people don't.
I was raised on WWF, only saw NWA as an adult. Had I been like you I probably would've felt similar.
Also like WM12 this isn't a match built for repeat viewings. Even as a big fan of it I've only watched it once since I was a kid and have no desire to watch the whole thing again.
I've heard that either way is acceptable, but it's always had to be 5-7-5 for me too.
That'd be a fun thread, people just going nuts with wrestling-related haiku (the singular is the same as the plural, right? "Haikus" doesn't sound right).
What's funny is that my friend and I HATED this match when we first saw it. They constant "run to corner, chase, grab" spot was done to the point of parody.
I hate this match. I don't think I've ever had less fun watching a match. I get the psychology that they desperately wanted to win which is why they constantly kept trying to escape but it just kills the flow of the match.
I love this match, escape-rules and all, but I still remember as a kid thinking the concept in general was so stupid. I don't often watch wrestling with non-fans but that's something I've seen drive them crazy. They're able to suspend disbelief at pretty much everything (even slow ladder climbing, which surprised me), but they'll spend the entire match yelling at the guys to just walk out the door.
It's honestly one of the things that embarrassed me the most as a wrestling fan.
or, to me, the Survivor Series 1997 main event. I think it's a great match, even with the screwjob ending. but for most others, it seems to totally kill their enjoyment of it.
I thought the SS97 match sucked before the screw job ending. Bret and Shawn were both at or near their peaks in 1997 and that match just blew chunks the whole time.
I agree. It makes sense psychology and story wise that they still don't want to hurt each other, but damn if it doesn't make for a tedious match to watch. Psychology is great but it was too much here and it ruins the match for me.
Personally, I'm not a fan of escape rules for cage matches. To "escape" implies that you are running for your life as a coward. These things should be grueling fights to the death until one guy cannot continue.
It's interesting seeing the lack of love for this in the comments. It's a great match but I agree with some of the criticism. We all know what they two could do together so the whole match, love or hate the escape clause, there is a part of you wanting them to stop trying to escape and instead get back to working an awesome match. That being said I think Bret and Owen plotted out about as great of a escape the cage match as one can.
Yeah I hated that too. But Bret and Owen do a good job here working with it. Those spots where they take turns diving for the cage door. Or the spot where Bret mistakenly crawls to the wrong corner. I think that stuff worked well here.
Yeah, it's a very odd match. I get that it's a proxy battle in the 'war' between Canada and the US, but still - here you have two of the finest ring generals in wrestling history doing lots of pointless, scrappy brawling in the crowd. What gives?
This was the first Bret Hart, Or Owen Hart, match that I'd ever seen, saw it about a year ago on the Hart dynasty DVD. Was very impressed how they worked escape into the flow of the match, instead of just 'escape spots'
Young Bret walking down the road on a bright Calgary day drinking a nice cool lemonade and coming his perfectly greasy hair. "Oh Bret, what good deeds are there to be done today? You can't let down your adoring Canadian BretHartiacs." He ponders to himself. Out of nowhere a cat cries from a tree. "Forsooth!" Bret exclaims as he drops his drink and comb. "How will I ever right this grievous wrong and be a Canadian hero?" Bret (hero to millions) bends down to retrieve his comb notices something that sparks his imagination. "Yon comb hath fallen just next to my straw in such a way . . . Had I some wood I could create a high retrieving device with 2 sides and rungs in between!" "Huzzah!" Bret yells. Thus was a Canadian legend and a common work item born. PS - As young Bret was saving the feline named Wooly Worthington Fussykitty (WWF for short) he fell down and his ham sandwich was crushed and torn, so after his amazing feet he did indeed have tears in his rhyes.
What did follow? Too lazy to look it up.
ReplyDeleteTaker vs Fake Taker.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Bret get some heat because this match went longer than it should have? He really should've gotten a medal for reducing the time we had to spend on the Undertaker-Undertaker match.
ReplyDeleteI like after the match when Davey Boy gets knocked silly. He was always good for that in a Bret match around this time period.
ReplyDeleteWas McMahon/Austin the last WWF cage match to use the old blue/black bars cage?
ReplyDeleteAs a kid I was pretty concerned that Owen would sneak out of the cage someone and steal the title.
ReplyDeleteCan't definitively answer but will help as much as I can by saying Rock /HHH in July of the same year was in the new style cage.
ReplyDeleteSomthing something tears in the eyes, something something boo hoo owen fell, something something banged some ring rats after the match.
ReplyDeleteIt was interesting to see the escape-the-cage rules followed to their natural end here, as Owen has no qualms about just trying to get out at every opportunity rather than trying to actually fight his brother. Bret eventually follows suit, which makes sense since (if you remember his initial reservations about ever fighting his brother in the first place) in the back of his mind he still wanted to just beat Owen without actually hurting him.
ReplyDeleteShort-lived gimmick theatre....Bret as the "master of the steel cage match." I don't even think Bret had ever even been in a high-profile cage match before this and yet in the buildup to Summerslam 94, Bret was suddenly heralded as the best cage wrestler ever and Owen had to beat him at his own game. The interesting thing is, they actually stuck with the 'Bret is unbeatable in the cage' gimmick for a few years until Sid beat him in early 1997, which of course led to that infamous Bret meltdown.
Haiku version:
ReplyDeleteMe and Owen in the cage.
Five stars from Meltzer.
Triple H couldn't do that.
Watching it with tears in our eyes.
ReplyDeleteSee my note below. To quote Tom Tucker, "I don't care son. I just don't care"
ReplyDeleteI believe the Kennel from Hell match used it
ReplyDeleteGood find.
ReplyDeleteWow! That's a while after they stopped using it in the USA (I think the last time was Kennel from Hell in September 1999). Wonder why.
ReplyDeleteYea, being the match was in the UK, thats the only reason I could think they used the bars
ReplyDeleteYa got it backwards.
ReplyDeleteYou did 7-5-7. It's 5-7-5. Also, I'm an asshole.
ReplyDeleteIMO one of the most overrate matches of all time. And I'm a huge Bret Hart fan (and I like Owen's work too). Was it bad? Nope. But it wasn't five stars or even 4. Probably 3. After being exposed to NWA style cage matches the escape the cage WWF rules just didn't work as well for me. And this match glorified those rules. And not only was the emphasis on numerous escape attempts a detriment, but tons of those "saves" violated rules and laws of physics.
ReplyDeleteWM10. Five star match between the two. Summerslam 94? not so much.
For the internet that was actually diplomatic as fuck and I'm happy to learn the proper way.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I've seen very few NWA cage matches, I definitely agree with you about this match being overrated as fuck. Their Wrestlemania match is absolutely five stars, but this match has always struck me as just being goofy as hell.
ReplyDelete^^ that's gotta be it
ReplyDeleteThis is like the WM12 Ironman match. I personally love it, but completely understand if people don't.
ReplyDeleteI was raised on WWF, only saw NWA as an adult. Had I been like you I probably would've felt similar.
Also like WM12 this isn't a match built for repeat viewings. Even as a big fan of it I've only watched it once since I was a kid and have no desire to watch the whole thing again.
I've heard that either way is acceptable, but it's always had to be 5-7-5 for me too.
ReplyDeleteThat'd be a fun thread, people just going nuts with wrestling-related haiku (the singular is the same as the plural, right? "Haikus" doesn't sound right).
What's funny is that my friend and I HATED this match when we first saw it. They constant "run to corner, chase, grab" spot was done to the point of parody.
ReplyDeleteI hate this match. I don't think I've ever had less fun watching a match. I get the psychology that they desperately wanted to win which is why they constantly kept trying to escape but it just kills the flow of the match.
ReplyDeleteI love this match, escape-rules and all, but I still remember as a kid thinking the concept in general was so stupid. I don't often watch wrestling with non-fans but that's something I've seen drive them crazy. They're able to suspend disbelief at pretty much everything (even slow ladder climbing, which surprised me), but they'll spend the entire match yelling at the guys to just walk out the door.
ReplyDeleteIt's honestly one of the things that embarrassed me the most as a wrestling fan.
Weirdly, despite being a huge Bret Hart guy, I've never gotten into this match.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely. I don't mind the escape rule but they should have kept it "climb over the cage"-only.
ReplyDeleteor, to me, the Survivor Series 1997 main event. I think it's a great match, even with the screwjob ending. but for most others, it seems to totally kill their enjoyment of it.
ReplyDeleteBest cage match ever
ReplyDelete*****
I thought the SS97 match sucked before the screw job ending. Bret and Shawn were both at or near their peaks in 1997 and that match just blew chunks the whole time.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It makes sense psychology and story wise that they still don't want to hurt each other, but damn if it doesn't make for a tedious match to watch. Psychology is great but it was too much here and it ruins the match for me.
ReplyDeleteWhy did they get away from the bars? One would think it would be easier to climb the bars than the fence.
ReplyDeleteI think it's haikus
ReplyDeleteBut Phone fixed it to haiku
So i guess you're right
*** is about right, I think. And I still say Owen should have went over.
ReplyDeleteDisagree. Too many run up the cage spots and too long
ReplyDeleteI HATE HATE HATE the stipulation that you can win a wwe cage match simply by walking out the door.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm not a fan of escape rules for cage matches. To "escape" implies that you are running for your life as a coward. These things should be grueling fights to the death until one guy cannot continue.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting seeing the lack of love for this in the comments. It's a great match but I agree with some of the criticism. We all know what they two could do together so the whole match, love or hate the escape clause, there is a part of you wanting them to stop trying to escape and instead get back to working an awesome match. That being said I think Bret and Owen plotted out about as great of a escape the cage match as one can.
ReplyDeleteYeah I hated that too. But Bret and Owen do a good job here working with it. Those spots where they take turns diving for the cage door. Or the spot where Bret mistakenly crawls to the wrong corner. I think that stuff worked well here.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's a very odd match. I get that it's a proxy battle in the 'war' between Canada and the US, but still - here you have two of the finest ring generals in wrestling history doing lots of pointless, scrappy brawling in the crowd. What gives?
ReplyDeleteWell if Shawn wasn't such a THIEF, this would have been a ladder match.
ReplyDeleteNot only did Bret invent the ladder match, he actually invented the ladder while trying to get a stray kitten out of a tree one day.
ReplyDeleteThis was the first Bret Hart, Or Owen Hart, match that I'd ever seen, saw it about a year ago on the Hart dynasty DVD. Was very impressed how they worked escape into the flow of the match, instead of just 'escape spots'
ReplyDeleteYoung Bret walking down the road on a bright Calgary day drinking a nice cool lemonade and coming his perfectly greasy hair.
ReplyDelete"Oh Bret, what good deeds are there to be done today? You can't let down your adoring Canadian BretHartiacs." He ponders to himself.
Out of nowhere a cat cries from a tree. "Forsooth!" Bret exclaims as he drops his drink and comb. "How will I ever right this grievous wrong and be a Canadian hero?"
Bret (hero to millions) bends down to retrieve his comb notices something that sparks his imagination. "Yon comb hath fallen just next to my straw in such a way . . . Had I some wood I could create a high retrieving device with 2 sides and rungs in between!"
"Huzzah!" Bret yells.
Thus was a Canadian legend and a common work item born.
PS - As young Bret was saving the feline named Wooly Worthington Fussykitty (WWF for short) he fell down and his ham sandwich was crushed and torn, so after his amazing feet he did indeed have tears in his rhyes.
PPS - Totally drunk.
ReplyDeleteSuch a contrast between the Lawler here that actually gets invested in the product and the Lawler today that doesn't give a shit.
ReplyDeleteBest part was the Anvil at the end.
ReplyDeleteNeidhart: "Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeut upppppppppppp...."