Today's Question: Totally random and off the grid, but I've been trying to rack my brain to think of the best "White Meat Babyfaces" of all time....so as part of this, I ask the blog a 2-part question:
a) In the history of wrestling, who best exemplifies the term "white meat babyface"?
b) Who is the greatest wrestler of all-time to never have a run as a heel?
See you next time with the recaps.
a) In the history of wrestling, who best exemplifies the term "white meat babyface"?
b) Who is the greatest wrestler of all-time to never have a run as a heel?
See you next time with the recaps.
Ricky Steamboat, bar none. The dude took the white meat babyface role to the world heavyweight title and never once deviated from that formula.ReplyDelete
Yeah, I'm not sure who else can qualify for this one other than Ricky Steamboat. *Maybe* Tito Santana as a)?ReplyDelete
For all time it's Steamboat and there's really nothing to talk about.ReplyDelete
For right now though I'm trying to think of anyone on the WWE roster who has never been a heel. Even Cena, the white meat babyface of this generation only got his push and got over due to his heel work.
Kofi is the only one that qualifies as long as we pretend that the 2 week "New Nation" thing never happened (and WWE is there with us on that one). WWE introduces all new characters they actually care about as heels--which is a huge part of the problem but hopefully HHH will get to that one of these days.
Hilariously enough if Kofi doesn't count, then you gotta go REAL deep to find a performer who's never been a heel on WWE TV. You're looking at backstage announcers and El Torito.
I'm getting the sense there's a consensus.ReplyDelete
Steamboat running away with things
Obviously the answer is Ricky "The Dra...no, it's Hillbilly Jim.ReplyDelete
I imagine this was probably on a hour tape delay or so and the live crowd gave Sid getting a mega babyface pop so they saved the canned heat replay for the following week.ReplyDelete
The overheads for the Manhattan Center were huge, not to mention the fact they had to carry the ring, set dressing and electronics, piece-by-piece, up an elevator that could reasonably carry two people. Just a massive logistical and time-consuming nightmare for the production crew.ReplyDelete
I've seen the full segment on youtube and they were cheering for Sid. Totally. Diesel Nov. 95: Upu missed the ball on that one baby , you missed the ball.ReplyDelete
I wasn't a big raw watcher in 1995 -- so without the Raws -- Wrestlemania doesn't seem as horrible as it was.ReplyDelete
Another reason why Nash is the smartest guy in wrestling....he didn't even end up giving Michaels that rematch.ReplyDelete
Dusty was a heel for a few years teaming with Dick Murdoch when he broke in in the 70's.ReplyDelete
The first legit "Night after Mania." I'd say the real second one was 1997 with the third being 1998. I can't recall if anything significant happened in 1999 or not though.ReplyDelete
I read once that the commercial break only happened in USA Network, so Canadian viewers watching on TSN got to see the Sid attack. Don't know if it's true, though.ReplyDelete
Is it re-up time before or after NoC? If it's the latter and Cena does end up beating Brock, I could definitely see a ton of people saying "Yeeeeah, fuck this" in regards to the Network.ReplyDelete
Sorry for not being able to add variety, but I love me some Ricky Steamboat, so that has to be my answer.ReplyDelete
John Cena. He's about as "white meat" as it gets with all of the NEVER GIVE UP moral virtues bullshit and kissing babies + fat girls.ReplyDelete
I'll go with Sting for the second one since none of his heel turns ever actually turned him heel.
Sid's over as fuck?ReplyDelete
Welp, better make him wear red instead of black and make him join up with DiBiase then.
Shame Sid didn't then make a YouTube Show during this time. Sid On The Beach has a nice ring to it.
Tito Santana and Tito Santana.ReplyDelete
I remember reading it was a total timing screw up, the wholeReplyDelete
thing should have aired live.
Looking up the day after Mania in 1996, they did debutReplyDelete
Mankind and Marc Mero, and give HBK his first interview as champion. That’s not
That FUCKING elevator was tiny as Hell. I swear to you that I rode down the elevator with Oscar and Moe from MOM and I thought that shit was going to fall through the floor... and it was hand operated at that.ReplyDelete
I have no great answer for he second one right now. I guess Steamboat. Though him sure I'll get that refuted by someone who knew he was heel in the 70s for like 3 weeks,
Koko was actually a pretty fun heel prior to coming to wwf and being the bird man.ReplyDelete
THIS. They can make the NOTC match a little bit more less one-sided and maybe if Heyman or so helps Lesnar to win: You have a reason for a Hell in a Cell Match.ReplyDelete
(And in the HIAC Match, Heyman calls Kane to help Lesnar having him ripping the cage open and then tombstones Cena...*g* well we can reuse some 17 years old angles, can we? ;-)
Bruno ever a heel?ReplyDelete
It's interesting when you go back and look at it, as it should be the norm, but Shawn Michaels had a break out of the year in 93,94,95, and 97.ReplyDelete
For the last year, Daniel Bryan has been in that role.ReplyDelete
I'm trying to remember if Big Show has ever had a heel turn.ReplyDelete
I don't know about the first part, but the one and only correct answer to the second part is Rick Steamboat.ReplyDelete
Best White Meat? Planet Stasiak.ReplyDelete
I think the answer to both is probably Ricky Steamboat. Who else is in the conversation?ReplyDelete
Funny how Sid was put in the corporation to give the faction credibility... Instead it went the opposite way, and the corporation sucked all the life out of him. Pray... For... Mojo...ReplyDelete
Yep, Plus Mankind came back later on that show with a run in during a rather even Taker vs Bradshaw match, with the story that Taker was still beaten down from his fight with Diesel the night before. Loaded show.ReplyDelete
Oh yeah, didn't realize till now that Shawn botched taking a powerbomb 2 nights in a row.ReplyDelete
Yeah Mabel was persona non grata for awhile with the WWF because of the injuries he caused, which is why I'm surprised they hired him back again in 2000 for a pretty lengthy run.ReplyDelete
In a weird way, though, that actually looked a little more devastating at first.ReplyDelete
I loved this show as a new fan. It made me want to see Diesel get revenge on Sid at IYH, so it accomplished its goal.ReplyDelete
Hahaha Sid is even botching his promo against Michaels before Vince wants to take a break. He's also playing to the crowd like a face and they're eating it up. It isn't until the very end when he sticks his foot into Michaels' back that the crowd quiets down. Sid rules.ReplyDelete
Here's the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi5geLcu9hY
Yep, I'm not a huge "star ratingz/workrate" kind of guy, so especially as a kid, I had LOTS more interest in a potential Sid/Diesel match than an HBK/Diesel match. Turned out to not be very good, but I would have bought the PPV had I had access to it back then. (access came 1 year later)ReplyDelete
It's clear that the answer is Steamboat.ReplyDelete
That's the perfect way to describe the product, with mental problems.ReplyDelete
Really wish they had 2 titles again, at least then I could care less if Cena is one if 2 big champs.ReplyDelete
Wrestlemania IX, Bret Hart against Yokozuna. Bret is an ULTIMATE under-dog, pure as snow, white-meat babyface. It may not be the most technically sound match, but I think it's an awesomely entertaining match in that we see Bret, not given a shot by many, doing whatever he can to beat Yokozuna (e.g. tying his feet in the ropes to trip him up). Give Bret the win in that match and it's one of the most awesome babyface victories ever.........but, it, uh, doesn't exactly happen.ReplyDelete
My thought is Cena, sadly...ReplyDelete
I'd enjoy face Orton vs heel Cena.ReplyDelete
That's how they can get Reigns over! Turn Cena heel, and have a face Cena beat him in an ultimate spectacle. I don't care if Cena turns face again right after because the match at Mania would at least be fresh and daring.ReplyDelete
Which is why they really booked themselves in a corner then.ReplyDelete
No! You're staying here and acting miserable like the rest if us.ReplyDelete
It's ok, it's probably the truth.ReplyDelete
I am a big fan of Brie cheese as well.ReplyDelete
a. Ricky MortonReplyDelete
b. Tito Santana
John Cena and Ricky Steamboat.ReplyDelete
Steamboat could be argued for both if being caucasian isn't a prerequisite for being "white meat".
cena and steamboat duhReplyDelete
Thanks for the contribution palReplyDelete
What does white meat babyface mean?ReplyDelete
To everyone answering "Cena" he has had a run as a heel. I think Steamboat did in TNA as well though I am not 100% on that. The oly one I can think of that never turned was Tito SantanaReplyDelete
I remember the PYT Express..ReplyDelete
*WWE Hall Of Famer Koko B. WareReplyDelete
I guess the plan was to turn Steamboat heel (Russo lol) but he ended up leaving the company before that actually happened.ReplyDelete
They did some great work with The Fabulous Ones. Really good stuff.ReplyDelete
I see... well I guess that is the only answer here then.ReplyDelete
What does "White meat" babyface mean?
I can really see Cena winning, Rollins cashing in, and a double main of Brock-Cena and Rollins-Ambrose in the Cell matchesReplyDelete
"Jenny McCarthy was only known as a B-list celeb at that point, and not the full-on batshit crazy anti-vaccine idiot she is now."ReplyDelete
To be fair, Jenny McCarthy has backed off those statements somewhat in recent years, so now she's a full-on batshit crazy hypocrite idiot.
Throw in some rape someone being someone else's bitch, and a dump truck and it was 1.0 Baker.ReplyDelete
They were going to... but he still hasn't finished his HoF acceptance speech.ReplyDelete
I really could've SWORN I saw the powerbombs etc live as it happened but perhaps it was just a replay on Superstars or Action Zone or something.ReplyDelete
Same thing with Undertaker. The 24/7 rule was in effect when he had the title but it was implied that going against him in an unsanctioned setting was suicide so nobody ever tried him.ReplyDelete
Still think Bruno is the real answer.ReplyDelete
I have no idea, I was reading this while on the elliptical today and had never heard of the term before.ReplyDelete
Yeah, the video that the Yetaaaay posted above proves it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi5geLcu9hYReplyDelete
I don't see how you can blame Sid for the botch there because the night before Shawn pulled the same crap. The second powerbomb is somewhat better, and the third one is textbook.
Also, I am blaming Shawn because he is wearing the same hat that the biker from the Village People wears. Not a good look for a babyface wrestler, even in the mid 1990s when fashion was in a weird spot.
Good call, I didn't even consider that but I think you are right.ReplyDelete
YOU CAN'T POWERBOMB... HBK? At least not correctly.ReplyDelete
"The Heartbreak Kid does not take powerbombs from ANYBODY!"ReplyDelete
"White meat baby face sand wedge." -that Simpsons episode.ReplyDelete
when was the last time he ever said poopy??ReplyDelete
Ricky Steamboat....and Ricky Steamboat.ReplyDelete
Ricky Steamboat and it's not even close.ReplyDelete
this feud NEEDS COLOR!!ReplyDelete
Good call on Houston.ReplyDelete
I think that was "Mmmmm....open faced club sandwich" for "open faced club - the sand wedge". Just sayin'.ReplyDelete
Depends on when you signed up. If you are like me and signed up a few days before Mania, you get NOC as part of your first six months.ReplyDelete
TJ: Ladies & Gentlemen, Smith Hart:ReplyDelete
I will also add: "Their attempt to bring back a former main eventer (Batista) was botched from his very first segment"ReplyDelete
I'll give you everything else, but at this point CM Punk left the company 7 months ago. WWE has had ample time to fill his void with someone. Funny how WWE couldn't wait to put Big Show and Batista in Bryan's spot in late 2013/early 2014, but they can't figure out how to slot someone in Punk's spot.
Don't worry, the void of pitchfork waving luddite Z-list celebrity has been filled...by Rob Schneider.ReplyDelete
"we will be "treated" to 3 months of Cena vs. KORPORATE KANE or Cena/Orton Part 412"ReplyDelete
Don't forget Big Show. There's always room for a Big Show heel turn main event push.
world champion for 11 years doesn't come close?ReplyDelete
things happened before you started watching
No kidding. I mean...I can kinda figure it out, but has anyone ever actually used that phrase?ReplyDelete
B) is Steamboat, of course.ReplyDelete
But for A), I always thought Bob Backlund, pre-Mr. Backlund era work, was the epitome of the white-meat babyface.
Great, now I've got the Tito Santana theme going in my head.ReplyDelete
For what it's worth, local markets are advertising Cena v. Rollins immediately after Night of Champions. It doesn't inherently mean that Cena is winning the title from Brock, but I have a growing suspicion that we may see Rollins cash in on Cena after he squeaks by in a war.ReplyDelete
Could be off on that since we have to figure Ambrose into Rollins's long term booking plans... unless they drop it and reprogram Ambrose with someone else. Knowing the company's track record like I do? I wouldn't bet against it.
... and to just about everyone in New York that night too.ReplyDelete
It made Sid look even more crazy, which worked. If I were Sid, I would have STUCK his ass on the third one for not selling... but then again, Shawn and Diesel were the only reasons Sid was brought back at that point.ReplyDelete
It's like he forgot how to sell. He stiffens out like a board. Although, he probably hadn't taken a whole lot of powerbombs by that point to be fair... naw, fuck Shawn still.ReplyDelete
Thankfully by '96 Sid could really PLANT him.
Verne Gagne - On both. Multiple title reigns as AWA champion. Major TV star during the 50s. The guy was plain and didn't use fancy moves or gimmicks to get over; a pure wrestler and would knock your block off if need be with basic offense.. Today's wrestling fan naturally would say Rick Steamboat, and deserving so because he was such a great worker with just enough charisma. But before Vince went national, Gagne was innovative in his own right as a promoter and stuck to the basics as a wrestler.ReplyDelete
GET OUTTA TOWNReplyDelete
We're getting to the point where Cena has feuded with some guys multiple times (Orton, Big Show, Kane, Lesnar) and has already had lengthy feuds with others (Sheamus, Mark Henry, Ziggler, Wyatt, Miz, Ryback, etc.) that the one notable person on the roster that I think he really hasn't encountered is Rusev, and there's no way that a shotgun Rusev feud can carry the Hell In a Cell PPV.ReplyDelete
Yeah, that's another big one. I'm still surprised WWE didn't really promote GoTG, especially since the film and Batista's performance were both well received. I'm not sure how much of the fanbase saw the film but if they bring Batista back as a face and let him play off the Drax character, I think he could get over.ReplyDelete
It would be hilarious if Rollins/Ambrose, the most obvious feud in years meant for Hell in A Cell, didn't actually get blown off at Hell in a Cell.ReplyDelete
well, he did have a heel turn there towards the end when he killed that guy at the nursing homeReplyDelete
Once is enough.ReplyDelete
Austin uses it on his podcast.ReplyDelete
WWE has to be annoyed at Batista for some reason because they never once mentioned him or Guardians, not even in one of those hokey "Did You Know?" bumpers. There's probably sore feelings on both sides because of his botched last run.ReplyDelete
It's sad, but I think WWE could have gotten some mileage out of a Brock/Batista match at Night of Champions.
Yeah, especially if they were able to build Batista into a sympathetic face only to fall to Lesnar. It would only add to Brock's mystique.ReplyDelete
At the very least it would've been a fresh match-up.ReplyDelete
Nitpickers: Yes, I know this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHzNyXWpzsE
Hogan then, he actually reminded people to prayReplyDelete
I can't believe I forgot about Verne never working heel.ReplyDelete
How about Bruno for B? I don't remember him ever being a heel and you could certainly put him up there as greatest of all time.ReplyDelete
Hulkamania was also presented as a quasi-religion. I still don't know how something so insane blew up like that. The evildoers wanted to "destroy Hulkamania", not so much take the title.ReplyDelete
I'm confused by the term "white meat babyface" because I've never heard it before. Is this a thing? If we use the term "white meat" on it's own, I think of white meat chicken. I've been to Church's, and it's all right, but I always preferred the dark meat. White meat can be sort of dry and flaky at times, but that dark meat chicken is always smooth and has better flavor. So if we apply the term "white meat" to a babyface wrestler, I can only see a guy who is sort of appealing as a good model of good guy-ness and a little dull, but the dark meat guy is cooler to cheer for and has an edge to him. So with that being said the answer is Ricky Steamboat on both counts.ReplyDelete
A) Hogan - during his 80s WWF run no one was more pro-American, pro-kids, pro-good vibes then HoganReplyDelete
B) Steamboat - I never saw him as a heel. He was an excellent babyface and could arguably be the answer for A.
Totally agree with you on dark meat chicken.ReplyDelete
Wasn't Ricky Morton kind of a heel when Jim Cornette was doing his NWA invasion in 1998?ReplyDelete
Was Lou Thesz ever a heel? If we're going to bring up Bruno & Verne, then surely he should be in the discussion too.ReplyDelete
Kerry was a heel in Florida with DavidReplyDelete
I don't know for sure, but I think back then the NWA champ would generally have to be able to wrestle as a heel in territories where the top guy was a faceReplyDelete
Yes, according to his book, he worked heel quite a bit.ReplyDelete
Ricky Steamboat for both.ReplyDelete
So Steamboat is the answer, with Tito Santana as a close second.ReplyDelete
Though he started as a heel ... I would say in his PRIME nobody was better as a white meat babyface than Dusty Rhodes.
he certainly had plenty of white meatReplyDelete
I think that was mostly dark meat.ReplyDelete
Yep, I'm also fearing that after Cena takes another loss at Night Of Champions that he'll end up defeating Rusev for the next couple of months (and perhaps it'll even end up being the main event of the Tribute To The Troops show in December) as a way to "gain his credibility back."ReplyDelete
It wasn't LEAN white meat.ReplyDelete
OK, show of hands: Who now wants chicken after reading this?ReplyDelete
I wonder what brought THAT on?ReplyDelete
He had more than his share of dark meat too, at least in his WWF run when they gave him a managerReplyDelete
Morton played heel in the York Foundation...they just didn't change his look.ReplyDelete
What about Bryan Gumbel?ReplyDelete
See my post above.ReplyDelete
Wouldn't the best white meat be the Gobbledegooker? Red Rooster?ReplyDelete
Wasn't this the one where he gave him an awkward first powerbomb and just sort of dropped in on his shoulder?ReplyDelete
Serious, I can't even imagine Steamboat as a heel. Only a warped mind like Russo would do some dumb shit like that.ReplyDelete
The second part of the question was "best to have never worked heel". The first part was more like "guy who was best at being a pure kid friendly face" - or something like thatReplyDelete
Scott, you’re onto something with Rusev being involved with the United States Championship.ReplyDelete
If Rusev were to become the United States Champion, the heat for this could be incredible, especially if he gave the championship the Lance Storm treatment.
btw - Robert Gibson looks exactly like Joe Flaherty now. So if they ever make a movie called "The Rock N Roll Express: The Sad Years", he's the guy they should castReplyDelete
Zack Gowen never had a run as a heel.ReplyDelete
I don't think Zack Gowan has ever RUN.ReplyDelete
and only one heel to begin with..ReplyDelete
Why does it have to be WHITE meat anyway?!?!?!?!?ReplyDelete
:: Racial Joke ::ReplyDelete
"If Bad News was around they could try him there (Him making a smartass remark at gorilla when Cena was returning from the Brock match would have been awesome)"ReplyDelete
Couldn't they do this with Bo Dallas, as Vince Jordan said before?
How about JYD? Was he ever a heel?ReplyDelete
Only to people that like work rateReplyDelete
Early in his career, yes.ReplyDelete
Play off the MMA thing and say Brock was sick..but Vince would make him have explosive diarrheaReplyDelete
when he worked for stu hartReplyDelete
You want to add Mark Henry?ReplyDelete
I could totally see them forgetting Rollins/Ambrose since Dean is filming and just jobbing Rollins to Cena.ReplyDelete
I try to avoid the all-or-nothing, RUINED FOREVER rhetoric because ultimately it's just wrestling and WWE's decisions don't take any money out of my pocket. But if Cena just simply AA's Brock and wins his 16th (!) World title at NOC...well, that's just mind-boggling booking. And yet, from a business standpoint, they might not have any other choice.ReplyDelete
I also wonder if any of WWE's business deals/partnerships are predicated on the idea of Cena always being on top/champion? Seems ludicrous, sure, but stranger things have happened and it would explain a lot.
Cena/Lesnar has been booked backwards. They did the blowoff match first.ReplyDelete
Anyway a good face needs a heel that he can't beat. Isn't that the whole premise of "overcoming the odds?" Cena now has one. They can milk this for a few PPVs if they can get the fans believing that Cena has no shot in winning. That means sending little kids home crying in the Cena hand towels for a few months.
I think it's more that business is down and they are hesitant to try anything too different in case it makes things go worse. Cena is old hat, but he's a proven commodity that will keep business at a certain level.ReplyDelete
Cena winning - and proudly defending - either of the midcard titles would be FANTASTIC.ReplyDelete
I've wanted to see that for years, and Rusev quite obviously should be gunning for the US title, but combining those two ideas is brilliant. Kudos, Scott.
It baffles me that any wrestling fan would defend Cena's tired promo style. He's one of the worst corporate schools in the history of the world and his stale run on top over the last 10 years is absolutely 110% his own fault. I gotta say, the guy can wrestle an entertaining match, but as an entertainer, he makes me sick.ReplyDelete
I can see the idea with Rusev, but he should go after the IC belt because it's the only title he hasn't won yet.ReplyDelete
I think it would make Cena more popular to keep getting beaten down by Lesnar, only to keep coming back for another beating.ReplyDelete
Gotta be Steamboat- when Flair brings out a line of bimbos to walk him to the ring, and you respond with your wife and infant child in a dragon costume- you might be a uber baby face. I'm sure Mayberry was going wild for him.ReplyDelete
The funny thing is, because Steamboat was so good- nobody even have him shit for being so over the top corny.
I'm not sure how he would go over with that act today, but if anyone could get the cynics to accept it, it would be him- he was the ultimate face.
I get that, but I just wonder if, say, USA sees a low rating for RAW for several weeks and then calls Vince: "Shouldn't you guys give Cena the belt again? We need strong numbers for Sweeps"...or something to that effect?ReplyDelete
Tony is on J.R.'s Podcast.ReplyDelete