Scott,
Been watching the 1996 Raws as they've come out lately. Can you shed some light on Fake Razor/Diesel insanity? Was Vince trying to prove how intellectual property laws worked or something? Why was JR portrayed as the villain that introduced them? We were supposed to hate JR because he got fired after contracting bells pallsy? The entire thing made ZERO sense on any level and the reaction they got is Michael Scott during Diwali level awkward.
It was so weird. Vince's point, as best as I can tell, was that the characters were the intellectual property of the WWF, and thus if the people playing the characters were to leave, they were replaceable. Frankly I'm not 100% sure, but that seems to be the gist of it. It was also something dealing with the lawsuit that was launched over the "we're here to start a war" rhetoric but I was never clear on what was supposed to be proven there. I actually thought Rick Bogner was a pretty good hand, but that gimmick just killed him for good.
LOL @ Cornette teaching Glenn Jacobs Diesel's entire moveset. Including the hair flip.
ReplyDeleteI always loved that Fake Razor lasted all of 3 seconds in the Rumble, but Fake Diesel makes it to the Final Four.
ReplyDeletehe was a former champion after all
ReplyDeleteRick's Razor punches are the worst in wrestling history.
ReplyDeleteFake Diesel and Razor deserved a run with the Tag Titles.....I bet a little success wouldve gotten them over with the fans
ReplyDeleteIt's wonderfully ironic that VKM managed to prove he was actually wrong
ReplyDeleteIf they'd brought Corey Graves and Adrian Neville up as "CM Punk" and "Daniel Bryan" after MitB, it might have been the greatest thing ever.
ReplyDeleteI love that that's Razors only Rumble appearance.
ReplyDeleteHornswoggle wouldve made a better Daniel Bryan
ReplyDeleteThe were TERRIBLE
ReplyDeleteRusso did a essay about it on wrestlezone and basically said it was exactly what Scott called it and he claimed everyone was horrified and embarrassed by it. Then when it didn't get over they used it to try and turn Ross. Basically it was Vince booking a shitty angle because he's out of touch. (NO WAY!)
ReplyDeleteHave an up vote for the strike team Vic!
ReplyDeleteWhen Hall and Nash showed up in WCW, they basically were playing the Razor Ramon and Diesel characters and insinuating they were from the WWF.
ReplyDeleteWWF introduced new wrestlers with the same gimmicks to demonstrate that the gimmicks were their IP.
End result? WWF won the lawsuit and was able to buy WCW for peanuts as one of the terms.
Stupid angle, smart business move.
The Shield kicked ass...not the WWE version...that was just Reigns carrying Rollins and Ambrose...
ReplyDeleteShane Vandrell beat Benoit by at least 5 years too.
ReplyDeleteUsing Ross to debut these guys certainly didn't help because nobody gave a shit about Jim Ross in late 1996. So you had two guys being brought in that every smart fan in the world knew wouldn't be Hall and Nash and it just died on impact. It just showed how out of touch Vince was 1996. WCW has the Sting turns nWo and ECW had the insanely underrated Ultimate Jeopardy match that same week as this debut.
ReplyDeleteI think it was mainly a way to create buzz for the company. JR saying Diesel and Razor were coming back did get a lot of people talking, but of course the payoff sucked.
ReplyDeleteLMAO...I guess Chris Benoit was a fan of the show...
ReplyDeleteI can't think of a single friend that actually paid close attention to their debut at that time. Everyone I knew was WCW this and ECW that at that time.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the Fake Diesel/Razor team too and thought WWF could have done more with it.
ReplyDeleteShawn Michaels gay stripper gimmick turned a lot of fans off too....
ReplyDeleteI for one loved Shawn stripping in front of his 60 year old trainer.
ReplyDelete"I swear I didn't know that Playgirl was mostly bought by dudes"
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. No amount of 4 star matches could make some fans like HBK.
ReplyDeleteLMAO.....Thats why I was a big Bret Hart fan
ReplyDeleteThat's 25% of his offense right there. :P Cornette telling that story is always worth a hearty laugh. Who knew being Undertaker's long thought-to-be-dead brother would be the home run gimmick Glenn Jacobs needed after shit ideas like Isaac Yankem and "Diesel" 2.0?
ReplyDeleteTheir two big failed adventures in trying to get people to boo JR were hilarious. The first, like you said, boo JR because he's saying he's the best there is and Vince treated him like garbage. The second, boo JR because he just wants to get back to work after healing from another attack of Bell's Palsy and he thinks Cole sucks, especially in comparison to him. Great work!
ReplyDeleteI thought Bogner sucked as Razor, but Jacobs did a terrific job as Diesel and got Nash's mannerisms down pat.
ReplyDeleteI like to think that Vince is just so insane that he feels his WWE fans don't really watch the other shows and that his creations would just be accepted as the real deal
ReplyDeleteWait, I was supposed to BOO Jim Ross when he confronted Michael Cole?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, it's like, Vince was in the back thinking JR would be BOOED for kicking Cole in the balls? Really?
ReplyDeleteRemember that short period of time Austin didn't have a deal with WWE and couldn't use "Stone Cold"?
ReplyDeleteI bet this guy said it was for women's eyes only..
ReplyDeletehttp://wrestlersbioa.weebly.com/uploads/8/6/8/1/8681413/3402737_orig.jpg
I always thought he was overrated....
ReplyDeleteDid anyone like Michael Cole back then? I try and cut him some slack these days because of the demand of the position (aka having Vince screaming lines into his headset non-stop and working 5 hours of TV a week, minimum), but he was drizzling shit in 1999. Made me long for the days of Todd Pettengill and Stephanie Wiand on Mania.
ReplyDeleteIt's 2015 and Vince STILL hasn't given up on Glenn Jacobs. That's really something.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the Christmas Creature!
ReplyDeleteSkinny Cole with the frosted tips and even worse on commentary than now? Nope.
ReplyDeleteLawler busting his balls at Wrestlemania 15 about someone getting a finger caught in the Cell, still makes me laugh.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, the Kane gimmick was a pretty big success and a reliable top of the card/upper midcard performer until well into the 2000's. I'd say his time was done as soon as he went back to the mask, feuded with Cena over nothing, and mauled Zack Ryder for no reason.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens in Memphis stays in Memphis. ;)
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm not saying he wasn't a hit for a while. It's just that Vince has had few guys stick around for nearly 20 years (he debuted in a vignette as Yankem in June 1995) straight through highs and lows. It's pretty remarkable.
ReplyDeleteOh God, WM XV was a great night for Cole. Finger caught in the Cell, blowing the main event result before it happened.
ReplyDeleteGotcha... I'm the biggest Kane mark around, but even I think he should've retired immediately after the flop of a performance he had with Bray Wyatt a few years back at SummerSlam.
ReplyDeleteThat's what Lawler told all his ex-girlfriends.
ReplyDeleteWorst Mania ever, highlighted by the worst commentary in WM History.
ReplyDeleteHe did get some career resurgence by teaming with Daniel Bryan as their tag act was very over but once they stopped teaming and he went to being Korporate Kane it was all over for him.
ReplyDeleteRight before registering them for Middle School... High Five?
ReplyDeleteEspecially since they made little effort to build on that Team Hell No history when Bryan and Kane feuded post-Mania 30.
ReplyDeleteI mean, it was RIGHT THERE and far better than the horror movie crap we got.
I actually liked them as a tag team. They're one of my guilty pleasures,
ReplyDeleteWe're they ever acknowledged as fake on the air?
ReplyDeletePretty much from day 1, yes. By everyone but Vince.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean that when "Razor Ramon" was inducted in the Hall of Fame, Rick Bogner got a ring too?
ReplyDeleteI mean on commentary. Did they always try to pretend it was the same guys?
ReplyDeleteNo, they were acknowledged as being new guys who were "younger and in better shape"
ReplyDeleteWeird.
ReplyDeleteIf I was booking things, I would have had Kane join the Wyatts back when they feuded, then have Bryan join the Wyatts a little later on and in the end it was all a ruse as Team Hell No reunite to turn on the Wyatts. Then Bryan could go onto win the title then Kane can turn on him again on the RawAfterMania to go after the title. That program would have worked.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0aCa5o00yg
ReplyDeleteJR turns heel on Cole. Another instance of Pittsburgh not going along with Vince's ideas.
Thank you, Pittsburgh! (clap clap, clapclapclap)
ReplyDeleteThat totally would've worked. Which is why it didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteThey actually had good matches too. I would have booked them as the new Demolition.
ReplyDeleteI know he wasn't in the best of health, but Gorilla Monsoon was RIGHT THERE. He could've pitched in.
ReplyDeleteSunny's LOD outfit or Sunny's Smoking Guns' outfit?
ReplyDeleteI also would've had Kane join the Wyatts. It annoyed me that they introduced the Wyatts as a cult (though they never really used the word "cult") but except for Kane and Bryan, never had them trying to recruit new members.
ReplyDeleteTo throw Michael Cole out of the building, a la Bobby Heenan? 5 Stars.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypDMM6qbuUg
ReplyDeleteReplaced with a longer voice that includes the roar at JR saying he was going back to ringside and the resulting JR chant that followed, lol. What a maroon.
ReplyDeleteBut didn't they recruit Kane and then give his mask to Stephanie or something? That was weird.
ReplyDeleteLOD.
ReplyDeleteThey were halfway decent as a jobber tag team I guess.
ReplyDeleteSmoking Gunns.
ReplyDeleteSmoking Gunns outfit. Or the Godwinns Daisy Dukes.
ReplyDeleteI didn't even think of that, but that would've been aces.
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny about WWE claiming they owned the Razor character is that Scott Hall came up with the character himself. Vince didn't even come up with the name. Hall just happened to do it under the WWE umbrella.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah. THAT one.
ReplyDeleteAlso: the white shorts and top. Or that pink full-body deal.
Pretty sure in Vince's mind it was the "characters" that were over and not the actual people portraying them kind of like how it's the YES chants that are over but not Bryan himself. But much like acting if all of a sudden Lucas replaced Indiana Jones for Last Crusade people would've bitched because he was perfect for his role.
ReplyDeleteI wish Sunny would write a book similar to Missy Hyatt's where she reveals all the guys in the business she slept with.
ReplyDeleteIt's been 23 more years.... has Vince seen scarface yet?!
ReplyDeleteNo, they recruited Kane and after Bray beat him at SummerSlam, carried him off somewhere. The assumption (at least my assumption) was that Kane would come back "reprogrammed" as a Wyatt Family member, but instead Kane just came back like regular Kane. After a while, though, he got frustrated with either losing or beating beat up by the Authority, so he turned in his mask to Stephanie and went corporate.
ReplyDeleteHe came back from hiatus, worked one match, and handed the mask off. It was weird/pointless.
ReplyDeleteI thought Bryan WAS a repackaged Hornswoggle.
ReplyDeleteDid he even come back and target the Wyatts, or was it somebody random? I forgot.
ReplyDeleteThis all happened during one of my wrestling hiatuses, so I also need a refresher: Were the original Razor and Diesel characters heels or faces when they left? And did Vince "bring them back" as heels?
ReplyDeleteDiesel was a heel and Razor was a face. Although, I guess the curtain call made them both defacto faces?
ReplyDeleteRazor was a face and Dieslel was a heel when the "originals" left.
ReplyDeleteThe guys JR brought in were heels.
He beat up on Rowan and Harper as a total face, then handed off the mask and came back the next week as heel Corporate Kane, willing to play ball with the Authority. Made zero sense.
ReplyDeleteReally, Al Pacino came up with the character.
ReplyDeleteThey can only make a book so many pages long.
ReplyDeleteIn some small ways they did actually try to connect the new characters to the original characters. I remember Goldust having a match on Superstars with Fake Razor watching on the monitors and the announcers reminding us that the original Razor had his problems with Goldust.
ReplyDeleteGlen's an example of the third time's the charm.
ReplyDeleteStrike 1: Issac Yankem
Strike 2: Fake Diesel.
Kane? JACKPOT!
I'd say Diesel was more of a tweener leaning towards the heel side.
ReplyDeleteOh, okay. Wow, that's even worse than I thought.
ReplyDeleteWhat's weird looking back isn't that they did this but that it lasted FOREVER. The fake Razor/fake Diesel gimmick was used until like May or June of 97 after being introduced in the fall of '96.
ReplyDeleteI honestly didn't think the fake Razor was that bad of a hand. Unfortunately fake Diesel is still stinking up a ring in his fucking slacks at the age of 90.
I don't think either made a TV appearance past January, but that gimmick should've been pulled off TV after the first night. And they were on TV A LOT.
ReplyDeleteSo forever is half a year?
ReplyDeleteJim Cornette said that Vince was planning to sue WCW over IP infringement and his legal team said he'd have a much stronger case if the IP he claimed was being infringed upon was actually in use by the WWF at the time. Thus, Diesel and Razor Ramon were reactivated.
ReplyDeleteKind of silly for many reasons, though the legal team were on point. Still, while Scott Hall's been playing Razor Ramon since 1995, what was Diesel? Tall guy who thinks he's really cool? Not really a trademarkable character.
That whole ordeal with Vince fucking with JR, The Huckster and the New Razor/Diesel are prime examples of why Vince is a fucking retard.
ReplyDeleteDidn't WCW have to put Nash in red in his earliest in-ring performances over a bullshit lawsuit over not being allowed to wear black?
ReplyDeleteThe Monday Night Wars summed up in one sentence: grown men (Vince and Bischoff) acting like children. Dirty tactics, name calling, and stupid nonsense that nobody but themselves would get.
ReplyDeleteWasn't the curtain call at a house show? If so, I don't think that would do a lot to change the national audience's perception.
ReplyDelete