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Most influential?

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I was having a conversation with friend about who the most influential wrestler of all time is. He chose Hogan based on the big boom that followed, but I said Stone Cold Steve Austin. Because of Stone Cold we longer have the "White Bread" babyface and almost all the big babyface angles involve rebelling against authority. Not to mention the "Main Event" style that still exist today. Thoughts?

​Hogan drew millions but I wouldn't call him particularly influential.  His whole act was cribbed from a combination of Jerry Lawler and Superstar Billy Graham.  Given those two choices, Austin is the clear winner.  ​

Comments

  1. cultstatusJune 30, 2015 at 4:31 PM

    Bret or Shawn probably. A whole generation of workers looked at them and realized they could do that too.


    It'll be that way in 25-30 years from now too. A ton of young fans will want to become wrestlers because they're big John Cena fans but 9/10 won't be anywhere near his size but they'll see Daniel Bryan and realize they can do what he does.

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  2. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM

    Just to throw out a contrary opinion, how about 'Superfly' Jimmy Snuka?

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  3. Stan FordJune 30, 2015 at 4:35 PM

    I would say they're in the conversation, yes.

    Basically, look at it this way: how many Indy dudes crib Shawn's act lock, stock and barrel?

    How many times have countless promotions tried to turn a guy into Stone Cold John Doe?

    How many Indy guys try to be Hulk Hogan? How many promotions try to turn a guy into Hulk Hogan?

    There you go.

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  4. cultstatusJune 30, 2015 at 4:38 PM

    Look at the indie style that rose up in the early 2000s that influences WWE today, that was because of guys like Shawn not Austin.

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  5. Stan FordJune 30, 2015 at 4:40 PM

    I'd agree with that.

    I guess maybe the answer varies depending on what kind of influential you're talking about, but I don't see any way Hogan sits at the top.

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  6. cultstatusJune 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM

    Hogan spawned thousands if not more of kids who wanted to be wrestlers. But as kids got older and realized they weren't going to be 6'6 320 pound jacked dudes they had to look at guys like Steamboat, Bret, Shawn etc to study what they did.


    So who do you give the credit to? Hogan, who created all these wrestling fans? Or the really great workers who provided the path?

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  7. zbinksJune 30, 2015 at 4:45 PM

    Gorgeous George.

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  8. johnny fiveJune 30, 2015 at 4:45 PM

    abraham lincoln.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 4:46 PM

    Go on...

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  10. Tom DawkingsJune 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM

    Spartacus. And he would have conquered the Romans too, but Crixus was too damn selfish and that's why Sparty should have kicked his leg out of his leg.

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  11. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM

    Shawn influenced pedophiles and male strippers. Bret influenced kids who wanted to become wrestlers.

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  12. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 4:49 PM

    Cain won the first recorded contest. Not that Kane.

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  13. Tom DawkingsJune 30, 2015 at 4:51 PM

    First recorded death is nothing compared to Kane setting a cameraman on fire.

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  14. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 4:51 PM

    Gorgeous George pretty much changed the industry.


    Wonder what happened to her after she split with Macho Man.

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  15. Devin HarrisJune 30, 2015 at 4:51 PM

    Outside of wrestling it's Ric Flair. A whole generation of rappers stole his gimmick and every football team demands he speak to them before a game. The Panthers even got mad at him when he talked to the 49ers instead of them before a playoff game. WOOOOOOOOO

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  16. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 4:52 PM

    Cain The Undertaker.

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  17. Tom DawkingsJune 30, 2015 at 4:52 PM

    Bret could have influenced a whole generation of wrestlers, but I hear anytime a Bret fan came to one of the training camps that they always showed up with tears in their eyes and the trainer ended up having to kick them out.

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  18. Devin HarrisJune 30, 2015 at 4:53 PM

    What about Jesus coming back from the dead to draw the biggest house in Jerusalem?

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  19. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 4:53 PM

    He stole that from Lazarus.

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  20. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 4:53 PM

    This is very true. In fact when I saw Run the Jewels last year, Killer Mike specified that he only recognizes one world champ, and that's Ric Flair.

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  21. Devin HarrisJune 30, 2015 at 4:54 PM

    And Lazarus couldn't draw a rainbow with a handful of crayons.

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  22. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 4:54 PM

    So you CAN'T become the man by beating the man?

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  23. zbinksJune 30, 2015 at 4:55 PM

    If I'm not mistaken, the decision was reversed and Cain was disqualified.

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  24. Devin HarrisJune 30, 2015 at 4:55 PM

    Have you seen his video to "Ric Flair"? Very well done.

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  25. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 4:56 PM

    Killer Mike will not recognize the title change. Flair still holds the Killer Mike version of the title.

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  26. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 4:56 PM

    He was too far ahead of his time.


    And JCW Arena folded well over a millennium ago. That upstart Muslim promotion runs the show there now.

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  27. johnny fiveJune 30, 2015 at 4:57 PM

    they brought him back WAY too soon imo. three days??? come on, build anticipation!

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  28. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 4:57 PM

    One of my favorite things in wrestling fandom is Bret fans and Shawn fans still tweaking each other.

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  29. Devin HarrisJune 30, 2015 at 4:58 PM

    I think you have a point here.

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  30. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 4:58 PM

    He totally agented Lazarus's deal

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  31. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 4:59 PM

    Jimmy Saville inspired a whole generation of pedophiles.

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  32. BiscuitJune 30, 2015 at 4:59 PM

    In the 70s a young man added cocaine to a Nick Bockwinkel gimmick and greatness was born.

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  33. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:01 PM

    That was as bad as when Punk won the title.

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  34. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM

    I don't think that Mick Foley was THAT important to wrestling.

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  35. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:03 PM

    I thought about it, but decided to just leave it at that. He's a high-flyer, crazy look, influenced Foley yada-yada. Use your imagination.

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  36. Mike MearsJune 30, 2015 at 5:03 PM

    Not most influential ever but in terms of reshaping the roster and the kind of guy who can be highly successful in modern-day WWE, Punk should be high on the list someday. Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose, Cesaro, Finn, Sami, Owens...like with anything "influential" maybe it would've gone that way anyway, especially with what NXT became, but Punk kicked in that door for the indie guys years before the rest of them showed up.

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  37. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:04 PM

    ...Shawn forfeitted TWO titles with tears in his eyes, yet you're picking on Bret??!

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  38. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:05 PM

    I've thought there was money in a feud between Bryan backed by Shawn, and Tyson backed by Bret.

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  39. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:06 PM

    You mean after Macho Man split her?

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  40. NightJune 30, 2015 at 5:07 PM

    HartKiller is my favourite guy here because he pops up only for these battles.

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  41. NightJune 30, 2015 at 5:08 PM

    Rock is definitely up there as he was the first modern era cool guy heel.

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  42. BiscuitJune 30, 2015 at 5:12 PM

    Terry Funk created the off-kilter heel. Jerry Lawler invented the Superman comeback. Verne Gagne trained the most legends. There are lots of ways to look at the question.

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  43. Michael SonbyJune 30, 2015 at 5:12 PM

    When you say 'influential', do they mean to the fans or to future wrestlers?

    For the fans, It would probably be Hogan, Austin, Flair, the Rock... the biggest names to the casual fans.

    For wrestlers? There things become more interesting. Besides Austin, some other names:
    Superstar Billy Graham (Scott Steiner became a main eventer stealing his entire persona), Mick Foley, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler

    Exit question- 10 years from now, who will have been considered more influential- Daniel Bryan or CM Punk?

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  44. Mike MearsJune 30, 2015 at 5:15 PM

    Punk. He came along first, and he was indisputably cooler.

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  45. Mike MearsJune 30, 2015 at 5:16 PM

    Hall and Nash?

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  46. cultstatusJune 30, 2015 at 5:16 PM

    Not even close. There have been a ton of cool heels in the modern era before him.

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  47. cultstatusJune 30, 2015 at 5:17 PM

    Razor Ramon was pretty much a PG version of the Rock.

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  48. Mister_E_MahnJune 30, 2015 at 5:17 PM

    Billy Graham definitely gets a mention, he inspired Hogan, Ventura, and Steiner. Not bad.

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  49. slapdabassJune 30, 2015 at 5:17 PM

    Gorgeous George has to be in the conversation. The first guy to accentuate showmanship and pageantry over 'tough sportsman.'

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  50. Stan FordJune 30, 2015 at 5:18 PM

    Punk.

    I can't stand the guy, but think about who's easier to imitate and try to follow in the footsteps of:

    A guy who just wants to wrestle the best he can for personal satisfaction in spite of people constantly telling him he's not good/big/etc. enough to be successful...

    Or...

    Loudmouthed prick?

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  51. johnny fiveJune 30, 2015 at 5:23 PM

    IIRC it was actually a mixed gender loser leaves town tag team tornado match


    adam and eve vs. god and jake roberts


    say what you will about match quality but it pretty much invented modern day storytelling

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  52. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:23 PM

    And they have nearly the same theme song.

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  53. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:24 PM

    I didn't know God had teamed with anybody other than Shawn.

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  54. justicegrisJune 30, 2015 at 5:25 PM

    Billy Graham easily. No one else touches the guy.

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  55. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:25 PM

    Hulk Hogan was a cool guy before him. I can't think of Rock as influential, because he had a unique style that no one came close (or really even tried) to duplicate.

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  56. Mike MearsJune 30, 2015 at 5:28 PM

    "I can't stand the guy"


    Just when I was starting to like you, Stan.

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  57. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:30 PM

    John Cena is by far the most influential of this era. For better or worse, he completely changed this era of wrestling like no one has come even close to doing. All faces try to duplicate him (Sheamus being #1 example). People who don't like Cena's ways get mad and leave (CM Punk). That is a huge amount of impact.

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  58. Kevin MayfieldJune 30, 2015 at 5:30 PM

    I think most influential is a different question than most popular. From that perspective, you have to look at Billy Graham, Dusty Rhodes, and some of the early "Character" type wrestlers, since that's something used by all wrestlers today.


    In-ring, I know a lot of people might argue for Macho Man--there's also the influence that the Japanese and Mexican styles have had on the faster pace of modern wrestling--I don't know enough to point to particular wrestlers for bringing that over though.


    As far as the badass quasi-villain people would cheer for, Razor Ramon did that well before Stone Cold or the Rock, but I don't knwo if he was the first.

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  59. HbkslushJune 30, 2015 at 5:31 PM

    IMO, it's Gorgeous George and lots of other guys a very distant second. To use a horrid phrase, before him, it was presented as a sport. After him, entertainment. He was huge during his time, and completely changed the way the business was presented. No other wrestler ever altered things to such a degree.

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  60. Kevin MayfieldJune 30, 2015 at 5:32 PM

    I think Punk had the longer run in the WWE, and a much longer run at the top. He's been much less hampered by injury, and I think had more of an opportunity to establish a character that will leave a lasting impression.

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  61. cultstatusJune 30, 2015 at 5:34 PM

    Cena had zero to do with why Punk left.

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  62. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:35 PM

    He wasn't the main reason. I didn't mean to imply it. But CM Punk hated the style of Cena and the company being centered around him.

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  63. Tom DawkingsJune 30, 2015 at 5:36 PM

    God's a tag team slut.

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  64. John PetrieJune 30, 2015 at 5:39 PM

    This. George influenced every blonde-haired pretty boy that followed, face & heel.

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  65. jabronivilleJune 30, 2015 at 5:40 PM

    Foley inspired a Legion of copycats on the indie scene. Billy Graham has had his gimmick copied a dozen times, too. Austin is a big one, naturally. Goldberg is the measuring stick for all Big Powerful Monsters since.

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  66. Mike MearsJune 30, 2015 at 5:40 PM

    I don't think it had anything to do with it.

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  67. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 5:41 PM

    Impact isn't the same as influence though. And if the faces acting like him part is about smiling and waving, I think that might be the influence of Vince's tastes.

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  68. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:41 PM

    CM Punk complained endlessly about not being in the main event of WM. Who was almost always in the main event instead? CM Punk didn't hate Cena as a person. But he was losing his passion for the sport. and his passion was a completely different type of wrestling than Cena's. I have no question Cena played a part.

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  69. Tom DawkingsJune 30, 2015 at 5:41 PM

    I think Warrior has inspired more would be wrestlers than Goldberg.

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  70. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 5:41 PM

    Vince McMahon

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  71. Mike MearsJune 30, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    The one he legit complained about was WrestleMania 30 and Cena was in like the No. 6 match on the card.

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  72. ObladiblaJune 30, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    TJ: Backlund-Patterson seems to have been a pretty fantastic feud. Just watched a 28 minute draw from MSG. Certainly more fun than most on TV today. I wouldn't have minded Pat winning the title back then either, if only for a few weeks.

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  73. WhiteGoodmanJune 30, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    Billy Graham influenced Ventura, Hogan, Steiner, and a few others I'm probably forgetting. He's up there.

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  74. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    I think you are right, although he's really a combination of Gogeous George and Buddy Rodgers. So, I think the arguement really comes down to George or Rodgers.

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  75. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    Wouldn't it be safe to say that's Vince's taste, because Cena made him hundreds of millions doing just that?

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  76. WhiteGoodmanJune 30, 2015 at 5:43 PM

    People don't give Backlund enough credit. He had done hot feuds

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  77. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:44 PM

    It's funny that Eric Bischoff was doing the evil boss thing before Vince, so really Eric influenced Vince!

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  78. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 5:44 PM

    I loved their cage match on the WWF steel cage tape from the 80s.

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  79. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:44 PM

    In his famous pipebomb, he complained about WM 28. And he has since complained in interviews about the Miz (instead of him) being in 27. Also he complained about 29 not being a 3 way.

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  80. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 5:45 PM

    The decades-later Backlund backlash is a bizarre thing.

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  81. ObladiblaJune 30, 2015 at 5:45 PM

    Yeah, some crowds went absolutely nuts for him! He was champ a little long though. Surely a few others could've held it, at least briefly? I know, different times, but still.

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  82. Matt HaydenJune 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM

    Maybe so, but none of that implies that Cena was a factor in Punk leaving the company.

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  83. WhiteGoodmanJune 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM

    Not to mention Bob Dylan and Muhammed Ali count Gorgeous George as an influence. That's two of the biggest names in pop culture in the 20th century

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  84. ObladiblaJune 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM

    Those two were made to feud with each other.

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  85. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM

    Cena was the guy who always in the main event (with the exception of 30) instead. It's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together here.

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  86. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:47 PM

    Surprised nobody has mentioned 'Nature Boy' Buddy Rodgers. His promos were ahead of their time, though he borrowed his look from George. He's got to be top 5 at least.

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  87. ObladiblaJune 30, 2015 at 5:47 PM

    Yeah. Back then he seemed pretty legit, so to speak.

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  88. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 5:49 PM

    They really didn't have anybody. Maybe Greg Valentine could have gotten a legit reign. I'm finding it hard to think of anyone else. I don't see Don Morroco or George Steele as world champ.

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  89. ObladiblaJune 30, 2015 at 5:51 PM

    You are probably right. And as much as I like Muraco, I agree there too.

    Muraco-Orton, the tag team.. I wish they had done more with them.

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  90. jabronivilleJune 30, 2015 at 5:53 PM

    Do that many guys copy his schtick? Tons of guys use the Spear because of Goldberg, and the "New guy murders jobbers for months to set up an undefeated streak" is also there.

    Granted, muscular guys getting pushed right away is nothing new, but Goldberg is the biggest example in recent memory.

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  91. John PetrieJune 30, 2015 at 5:54 PM

    Buddy Rogers, Dr. Jerry Graham (who helped "Superstar" Billy Graham break into the business), Eddie Graham, "Classy" Freddy Blassie, and many others from that early 50's era all adopted the bleach-blonde look around the same time as Gorgeous George. It's hard to pin down 100% if he inspired all of them, but most stuff you read about that era generally credits George with popularizing the look in wrestling.

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  92. DavidJune 30, 2015 at 5:58 PM

    But wasn't Vince doing that in USWA like in 1993?

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  93. John PetrieJune 30, 2015 at 6:01 PM

    Also: Rikidozan & El Santo.

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  94. Daniel SwinneyJune 30, 2015 at 6:01 PM

    That's possible but I don't think anything is safe to say about the mind of Vince McMahon.

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  95. HbkslushJune 30, 2015 at 6:04 PM

    Heck, he influenced every wrestler who used personality to sell tickets. Which is to say, almost all of them.

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  96. Edward MJune 30, 2015 at 6:11 PM

    Chris Benoit outdid him though.

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  97. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 6:13 PM

    Oh that's right!

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  98. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 6:15 PM

    We're talking high-flying moves, right?

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  99. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 6:17 PM

    Great team. Both guys were Piper's lackeys at different points, it would have been great had they all been together at the same time, like an early Shield. Or the Freebirds.

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  100. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 6:21 PM

    Completely perfect contrasting styles and characters. Patterson has said he couldn't wait to go to NY and wrestle Backlund because their style was so boring.

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  101. jabronivilleJune 30, 2015 at 6:21 PM

    It's hard to guess how influential someone from that era is- it's just so long ago, and unfamiliar to most fans.

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  102. shittybulldogJune 30, 2015 at 6:22 PM

    Right, I was suprised people were throwing out names from the 50s-60s, so I thought I would too.

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    ReplyDelete
  104. MaffewOfBotchamaniaJune 30, 2015 at 6:36 PM

    Onita.

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  105. Topher0820June 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM

    Hogan is influential in that Vince has been trying to find the next Hogan ever since.

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  106. daveschletJune 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM

    29 was a huge complaint of his, not being paid as a main eventer, even though he was against Undertaker. And who was in the main event....?
    Rock vs Cena II.

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  107. Topher0820June 30, 2015 at 6:41 PM

    I think the implication is that Warrior influenced Goldberg to begin with.

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  108. jabronivilleJune 30, 2015 at 6:43 PM

    Yeah, they pretty much defined their nations' wrestling scenes, even more so than any one Westerner defined theirs. Japan and Mexico were more or less defined entirely by one person each, while the American style has many fathers.

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  109. Jeremy RinehartJune 30, 2015 at 6:56 PM

    Most of the Backlund backlash came from Meltzer

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  110. Jeremy RinehartJune 30, 2015 at 6:57 PM

    Most influential: Dixie Carter

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  111. Matt HaydenJune 30, 2015 at 6:58 PM

    Punk definitely got shafted on pay compared to the other guys on the card, but I don't think we can pin that one on Cena.

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  112. KnockLesnarJune 30, 2015 at 7:03 PM

    Yeah but he's a crybaby bitch and complains about EVERYTHING

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  113. KnockLesnarJune 30, 2015 at 7:06 PM

    There's absolutely nothing cool about Punk

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  114. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:35 PM

    I'd say the Hardys and the E&C deserve a lot of credit for the indies, especially all the goofy promos PWG cuts seems straight out of Edge and Christian's playbook.

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  115. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:37 PM

    I thought Bockwinkel was more arrogant intellectual than crazed playboy.

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  116. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:37 PM

    I think Punk is going to get a lot of credit. The hybrid style, "my gimmick is no gimmick" stuff.

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  117. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:38 PM

    But every guy after the Rock has to be "funny" to be a main-event star.

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  118. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:38 PM

    Still mad he left before he got crippled?


    He's definitely smarter than Bryan.

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  119. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM

    Punk, because I'd like to think potential wrestlers will eventually realize that killing yourself for 15 people shows is stupid.


    Punk's way more iconic than Bryan is, sorry. Everybody will say Bryan's their favorite wrestler, but more people will be copying Punk's aesthetic.

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  120. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:41 PM

    He's also the first wrestler to influence the outside world.


    No George, no Ali.

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  121. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:42 PM

    Yeah, he said Cena was the biggest face and he was the biggest heel.


    There was some competition when they were both faces, but that involved other shit.

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  122. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:44 PM

    Goldberg wasn't a coke head psychopath though.


    He had a "superstar boxer" thing to him, a real athlete kick that Warrior definitely didn't have.

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  123. Robert DavisonJune 30, 2015 at 7:51 PM

    Beat me to the punch. It was Gorgeous George that really introduced much of the showmanship and flamboyance into wrestling, which is essentially what wrestling became, subsequently. I don't think anybody else even comes close to the kind of influence he had.

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  124. BasscaseJune 30, 2015 at 7:51 PM

    Agreeing with Hbkslush in Gorgeous George was the most influential person in wrestling.

    - He changed the look of a heel from a dirty, grimy character to a prissy one (this was huge, given this was right after WWII and the definition of a "man" wasn't bobby pins and a hair net)
    - He sold out the LA Coliseum like 30+ times
    - He had a valet (and was married in the ring!) Plus he used "Pomp and Circumstance" as his entrance music, so Macho, there ya go!

    And probably the biggest one - he helped to establish the then-unknown medium of television. Appliance places would have TVs with George's picture pasted on them, and they would sell (in comparison, sporting events like football and baseball showed players from far away angles that made them look smaller).

    ReplyDelete
  125. Robert DavisonJune 30, 2015 at 7:53 PM

    And the Ultimate Warrior was ultimately derived from The Road Warriors, as was Sting and every other face-painted manic type face.

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  126. BasscaseJune 30, 2015 at 7:53 PM

    And Liberace! He complained that Gorgeous George was imitating him.

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  127. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 7:59 PM

    I think Jericho deserves to be on the list.


    He kind of perfected the "goofy heel who can work" that's clogged up the indies, or at least their mid-cards. I don't think Chikara would exist without Jericho, for example (whether that's a good thing or not...)


    And well...there was a time in which I'd say Benoit was the most influential. A lot of short, snarling indie dudes using way too many brainbusters and powerbombs were in the main-event copying Benoit's shit down to a tee.


    Another name for the list in terms of inspiring people instead of outright imitation is Eddie. A lot of wrestlers have called him their favorites, and I think he deserves some credit because a lot of female wrestlers have credited him as their favorite talent (in NXT alone, I think Sasha, Jessie and Bayley have called him one of their favorites). And more than a little bit of Punk's stuff was in tribute to Mr. Guerrero. Nobody has tried to copy his gimmick directly (other than Chavo) but that doesn't mean he doesn't matter.


    Honestly, the entire undercard of WCW deserves massive credit for shaping what independent and lower card wrestling in the United States is like currently.

    ReplyDelete
  128. BasscaseJune 30, 2015 at 8:05 PM

    There's a reason he was champ for 5.5 years, and it wasn't because "there was no one else".

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  129. BasscaseJune 30, 2015 at 8:05 PM

    I think Benoit and Eddie were influenced by Dynamite Kid.

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  130. BasscaseJune 30, 2015 at 8:06 PM

    Guys like Macho and Piper always had legit face heat. Luger's up there as well.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Dougie MullerJune 30, 2015 at 8:10 PM

    Who exactly did Austin influence?

    ReplyDelete
  132. Stuart_ChartockJune 30, 2015 at 8:10 PM

    In "modern" times, I'd have to say Shawn Michaels. He may not have been as big as Hogan, Austin, etc., but there weren't a lot pretty-boy high-flyers before him. He's the guy that thousands of indy wrestlers patterned themselves after.

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  133. Stuart_ChartockJune 30, 2015 at 8:11 PM

    "Stone Cold" Randy Orton and "Stone Cold" Dean Ambrose come to mind.

    That's more on Vince, though.

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  134. Will McGuireJune 30, 2015 at 8:12 PM

    It's Superstar Billy Graham who changed the entire conception of what a wrestler looks like, talks like, and wrestles like. No one's even close for American wrestling.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Stuart_ChartockJune 30, 2015 at 8:20 PM

    I don't think that Punk was even worried about headlining WM multiple times, he just wanted to headline one.

    And really, whether you like him or not, found him entertaining or not, it's pretty much impossible to deny his popularity at the time of WM29. He should have headlined in one form another, whether it was against Rock, Rock and Cena in a three-way, or Taker in a title match.

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  136. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 8:41 PM

    An entire genre. He was raising hell and doing Attitude long before DX.

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  137. zanatudeJune 30, 2015 at 8:42 PM

    An entire genre! He was raising hell and doing Attitude long before DX.

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  138. justicegrisJune 30, 2015 at 8:42 PM

    Wow that's very apt, Although who was the first super physique bodybuilder type guy? Graham or someone before?

    ReplyDelete
  139. alina.peeterJune 30, 2015 at 9:17 PM

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    ReplyDelete
  140. NWAJCP4everJune 30, 2015 at 9:32 PM

    Benoit was absolutely influenced by Dynamite Kid. That is a known fact.

    ReplyDelete
  141. jabronivilleJune 30, 2015 at 9:37 PM

    There was some Greek guy (John Tolos or something) who is credited as the first guy to sell tickets using his physique. This was back in the 1950s or '60s. Obviously not a roid monster given the time period, but I think he could be credited with starting the trend in Charles Atlas types in wrestling.

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  142. WiffleBatJune 30, 2015 at 9:45 PM

    Hogan certainly was derivative but it's not like Austin's act was some radical paradigm shift that had never been seen before. Dick the bruiser and The Crusher in particular built their careers off the back of the "blue collar guy who loves to drink beer and fight" trope.

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  143. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 9:47 PM

    That's right.


    He basically invented the junior heavyweight stuff along with Tiger Mask.


    It's weird that wrestling is 'new' enough that some of its biggest innovators and most influential guys are in their fifties.

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  144. WhiteGoodmanJune 30, 2015 at 9:49 PM

    I think a lot of it is Meltzer parroting. He wasn't a fan, to say the least

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  145. HOWwrestlingJune 30, 2015 at 9:52 PM

    Gorgeous George. No George = no gimmicks. Not saying somebody else wouldn't have come along and done one, but he was the first.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Pete LabozettaJune 30, 2015 at 9:56 PM

    Flair is at or near the top. A ton of wrestlers cite Ric Flair as their biggest influence.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Justin StarkJune 30, 2015 at 10:23 PM

    I say Hogan. And again it's the same argument as why Kobe says Jordan is the best. Because he did all the big things first. The main stream media cross overs, the drawing record numbers, all of that.

    ReplyDelete
  148. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:25 PM

    I gotta say Billy graham he influenced hogan flair ventura austin idol steiner.and those guys influenced the following generation

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  149. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:28 PM

    Does anyone have a rant from meltzer I'd like to read it

    ReplyDelete
  150. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:30 PM

    Goldberg was influenced by the ufc he wanted to look as legit as possible.he was a fan of warrior though he dressed up as him for halloween

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  151. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:32 PM

    I wonder is some of the wwe guys are happy he's gone he seems dickish

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  152. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:34 PM

    Punk his talking is better.

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  153. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:35 PM

    Verne and the hart dungeon gave alot to pro wrestling

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  154. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:36 PM

    I would say the horsemen and the nwo Especially hall and nash

    ReplyDelete
  155. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:37 PM

    I read that with a 1970s sounding reporter and lmao

    ReplyDelete
  156. El SalvajeJune 30, 2015 at 10:38 PM

    Yea athletes and rappers love flair.snoop dogg put flair over.its weird hearing flair samples in rap but cool.

    ReplyDelete
  157. PhredericJune 30, 2015 at 10:52 PM

    Goldberg was a wrestling fan?


    And I have to see that picture.

    ReplyDelete
  158. dirtyearsbillJune 30, 2015 at 10:53 PM

    The Mr McMahon character proved to be hugely influential in that they've been trying to catch that lightning in a bottle ever since in wwe with one heel authority figure after another.

    ReplyDelete
  159. HbkslushJune 30, 2015 at 11:33 PM

    I've seen quite a few people mention Superstar Billy Graham, which isn't a bad pick by any stretch of the imagination. Hogan took a lot of his schtick from Graham (and a bit from Ventura). But if you want to talk influential bodybuilder types, you have to look at Jim Londos, who was the top draw of the 30s. Not a big guy, but he had a great build which was a big key in his drawing the crowds. In terms of influences, Graham was kind of a combination of Londos & Gorgeous George (build & personality).

    http://www.hellenism.net/images/famous/londos.jpg

    Nature Boy Buddy Rogers is certainly up there as well. You can draw a pretty straight line from George to Rogers to Flair.

    It's sad that Lou Thesz wouldn't get mentioned much, but that's more a comment on the business than him. He was definitely a gold standard.

    ReplyDelete
  160. ZeeBJune 30, 2015 at 11:53 PM

    In ten years it'll be interesting to look at. At this point in time people look back at hogan like they view leave it to beaver, some hokey piece of Americana that was campy but incredibly charming for its time.

    Will Austin be viewed that way in a decade or will people still be stunning their friends at graduation?

    ReplyDelete
  161. Nick SaikleyJuly 1, 2015 at 12:29 AM

    OOH YEAH!

    ReplyDelete
  162. Nick SaikleyJuly 1, 2015 at 12:37 AM

    In all 3 examples, his complaint had nothing to do with Cena. 27, it was with Miz. 28, it was with part-timer Rock. 29, it was the fact it wasn't him with Cena and Rock. He would've been *against* Cena, not taking his place.

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  163. Gavin LopezJuly 1, 2015 at 1:21 AM

    George (Stephanie Bellars) was married to Doyle Frankenstein, ex-guitarist for The Misfits for over a decade then they got divorced. Not sure what happened to her since then.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Mike MearsJuly 1, 2015 at 4:13 AM

    Oh, well then I guess I was wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  165. BasscaseJuly 1, 2015 at 5:19 AM

    Shoot, Austin's not even the first Texan to pull that off - Stan Hansen was a beast.

    ReplyDelete

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