-A video package
recaps last week’s show where Shane McMahon assumed temporary control and was summarily
destroyed by Mankind. Kane also went “corporate”
for the first time in his career by attacking D-Generation X to end the show.
-Michael Cole and
Jerry “The King” Lawler are tonight’s commentary team and they are live from
Albany, New York. Cole is still calling
the show “the best action adventure series on television.”
-Vince McMahon
tells Shane McMahon that everyone that attacked him last week will pay. He pledges to humiliate and fire Commissioner
Shawn Michaels when he shows up at the arena.
The Corporation then invades the arena’s boiler room en masse looking
for Mankind. Mankind eventually launches
a sneak attack, but cannot fight off a boatload of guys on his own. Vince tells Mankind that he will get a
Hardcore title shot later in the evening as a belated Christmas gift, although
this will require some rebooking because Hardcore Champion The Road Dogg is
booked to face Val Venis in the opener.
The booking is doing a good job making Kane a sympathetic figure as the
stooges keep yelling at him.
-Opening Contest
for the Hardcore Championship: The Road
Dogg (Champion) and Val Venis wrestle to a no contest at 1:50:
Based on the previous segment, it is no surprise that the
Corporation walks out to ringside less than two minutes into this bout. Test attacks Venis as referee Earl Hebner
calls for the bell, not quite understanding the rules of a Hardcore title bout,
and D-Generation X comes out to protect Road Dogg.
-Vince McMahon
informs the Road Dogg that he will defend his title against Mankind and says
that Commissioner Shawn Michaels will be fired for not helping Shane last
week. This is a nice crazy Vince promo
as he goes nuts about his desire to fire Michaels, which he says he would love
to do to every member of the audience.
-Al Snow is still
freaking out over last week’s bloodbath at the hands of the Brood, but it is
unclear whether he received another bloodbath or has not changed out of the
clothes he had on last week.
-Vince talks with
Kane as the stooges make fun of Kane behind his back. Vince assigns Kane the task of going after an
unspecified member of D-Generation X.
-Edge beats Al
Snow (w/Head) via disqualification when Snow hits Edge with Head at 2:49:
Edge uses his original entrance theme and does not have
the Brood here, which does not fit within existing storylines, especially if
Snow is angry over last week’s bloodbath.
The Head is different for this bout as it is shaved and also has blood
on it. Snow squashes Edge here, hitting
him with a million headbutts and destroying him with Head until the Brood and
JOB Squad run out. For all intents and
purposes, Edge should be carted out of here on a stretcher, but he merely walks
out as if nothing happened and smiles at the JOB Squad. For his part, Snow escapes through the
audience for some reason.
-Sable warms up
backstage for her Women’s title defense tonight.
-Sable winning the
Women’s title from Jacqueline at Survivor Series is the Glover Slam of the Week.
-Dennis Knight,
formerly of Southern Justice, is shown talking with X-Pac backstage.
-The next match is
supposed to be Sable defending the WWF Women’s title. Before it gets started, the yet-to-be-named
Tori gets into the ring and presents Sable with a white rose before being
carted off by security. Sable is booked
to face Spider Lady, who attacks her from behind and whips her with a
belt. The Oddities, who now have George “the
Animal” Steele with them, rush the ring and Spider Lady unmasks to reveal Luna
Vachon. What you thought the Fabulous
Moolah was trying to “shoot” her way to another title? Luna screams that it is her time and she
needs to get more respect, while Cole is just outraged that Luna would do such
a thing to a loving, compassionate creature like Sable. When we return from the commercial break, the
Oddities tend to Sable’s injuries backstage.
-European
Championship Match: X-Pac (Champion) wrestles
The Big Bossman to a double disqualification at 5:13:
The previous night on Sunday Night Heat, Kane defeated
X-Pac in a non-title match and this match is the continuation of his punishment
for doing the Bronco Buster to Shane McMahon on last week’s show. X-Pac is really over here, especially when he
makes his comeback, and Test tries to run interference, but in a nice piece of
continuity Val Venis makes the save. We
are still without a clean finish tonight, but the crowd still loved this. Rating: *¾
-We get our first
training vignette for Vince in the Royal Rumble. These were some of the funniest vignettes of
the Attitude Era as Shane functioned as a merciless trainer and Vince
complained the whole way about doing sit ups with weights and drinking egg
yokes. Vince’s cries of “I HATE AUSTIN!”
were also great as he got into his workouts.
-Goldust &
Steve Blackman defeats “Double J” Jeff Jarrett & Owen Hart (w/Debra) when
Blackman schoolboys Owen at 3:17:
The announcers will just not let the “Shawn Michaels is
going to be fired!” story go, talking about it on an average of once per
minute. The WWF is no longer using Debra’s
full name, just calling her “Debra” because the WWE has never cared for its
female stars to have first and last names.
This may also be due to the fact that Debra divorced Steve McMichael in
October and the WWF finally got with the times.
Owen locks Blackman in the Sharpshooter when Dan Severn randomly walks
out in a neck brace and confronts him.
After about forty seconds of that, Blackman and Goldust win via the WWF trademarked
distraction rollup. What is funny is
that after the match, Severn just calmly walks up the ramp with the heels no more
than ten yards behind him. Way to sell
that angle! Rating: *
-Triple H and Chyna
are really focused as they make their way to the Gorilla position.
-The Acolytes beat
up Dennis Knight in the parking lot, toss him into the trunk of their car, and
drive away.
-Intercontinental
Championship Match: Triple H (w/The New
Age Outlaws & Chyna) beats Ken Shamrock (Champion w/Test & The Big
Bossman) by disqualification when Shamrock refuses to release the anklelock at 6:26:
Instead of booking Billy Gunn to face Shamrock, they
really should have slotted Triple H into that position since you already had
the built-in story of how Triple H never lost the Intercontinental title and
was trying to get back what was rightfully his.
This match is noticeable for me because Triple H pulls out the old N64
move of blasting Test with a baseball slide when Test gets too close to the
apron. The company is really hurting
Shamrock’s finish as all the top stars keep getting to the ropes to escape it,
but his decision not to break the hold here fits within the existing
story. A good match, although Triple H
could have sold the knee better during the closing sequence. Rating: **½
-After the bell,
the Corporation and D-Generation X brawl, with the Corporation winning after
Kane reluctantly gets into the ring.
-Billy Gunn
temporarily winning the Intercontinental title from Ken Shamrock is the
10-10-220 Rewind segment.
-Kevin Kelly
interviews Gunn, but before Gunn can say much of note, Shamrock crashes the
segment. None of this goes anywhere.
-Mark Henry and
D-Lo Brown walk out and Henry apologizes to Chyna for fooling around with PMS
last week. PMS come out, with Henry hilariously
hiding behind D-Lo, who calls PMS “ring rats.”
Chyna then makes an entrance and sticks up for Henry, telling PMS to “stay
away from her man.” Jacqueline makes the
mistake of not heeding Chyna’s advice and gets shoved to the canvas as Henry
jumps for joy. This was great too because
Terri immediately fled from Chyna, possibly remembering getting choked out and
being flung around like a ragdoll in the winter of 1997. If you follow all of the shows through 1998,
this segment works really well. I marked
out for it.
-The Corporation
has another meeting backstage and when we get back they are going through the
locker room looking for someone.
-We get a video package
that recaps 1998. The problem with the
video is that they do not put things in chronological order so we just bounce
around to different segments and matches.
-The Corporation attacks
the Godfather backstage, who was booked to face Billy Gunn in the next match.
-Kane (w/Shane
McMahon, Pat Patterson & Gerald Brisco) defeats Billy Gunn by disqualification
when X-Pac interferes at 3:54:
With the Godfather on the shelf, Kane is inserted into
his place by Shane McMahon. Ken Shamrock
attacks Gunn from behind minutes into the match and applies the ankle
lock. Kane chokeslams Billy and appears
headed for a win, but the stooges have him repeat the chokeslam two more
times. Before Kane can hit the move a
third time, D-Generation X runs in to make the save. Rating: *
-WWF Champion The
Rock walks out to do guest commentary for the main event.
-Commissioner Shawn
Michaels is shown arriving to the arena, which is humorous because the show is
nearly over.
-Hardcore
Championship Match: The Road Dogg
(Champion) pins Mankind after the Rock this Mankind with a Rock Bottom at 9:08
shown:
The match starts during the commercial break so we join
it in progress. The Rock’s commentary
brings this match up a notch as he puts himself over, but also puts over the
talent of both competitors. There are
weapons used here, but at least they are used creatively with Mankind leg
dropping a chair onto Road Dogg’s face and Road Dogg using the chair for a side
Russian leg sweep. One spot that makes
no sense here is that Road Dogg breaks up a pin by getting his feet on the
ropes as you would figure rope breaks should not apply in a match where the
rules are suspended. Mankind appears headed
for a win after he elbow drops the Road Dogg through a table in the crowd, but
the Rock leaves the booth and interferes to put the Road Dogg over. Fans are so crazy over the Rock that four or
five security guards have to push back the sea of humanity that surrounds the
bout to get the Rock back to the locker room.
The Road Dogg was arguably the best Hardcore champion in WWF history,
putting on lots of entertaining title defenses before the garbage came to
overwhelm the actual wrestling. In a
nice touch, Road Dogg sees the way that he won the match and hates the fact
that he needed interference to retain the title. Rating: ***¼
-Vince McMahon
comes to the ring and calls out Shawn Michaels.
Vince recounts how he was the reason for Michaels success and shows
footage from March where Michaels said that he did not need Vince as much as
Vince needed him. Vince then proceeds to
fire Michaels and parts by saying that he does not laying down for anyone. This, predictably, ends with Michaels
delivering Sweet Chin Music and simulating a lewd act on Vince before the
Corporation runs out.
The Final Report Card: Quite the entertaining RAW to close out 1998. The main event was one of the better hardcore
matches in the company’s history and the closing segment and the Chyna-Mark
Henry-PMS segment stole the show. It is
a testament to how good the roster was built during this time that Steve Austin’s
absence is hardly missed. However, if you
look at the ratings, WCW has been gradually narrowing the Monday Night War gap
with RAW since Austin disappeared after Rock Bottom.
With the 1998 RAW reviews in the books,
where would the Blog like to head next?
Should we go into 1999 with RAW or should we go back to look at 1993-1995,
Superstars from 1994-1997, Prime Time Wrestling from 1991-1992, the Action Zone
from 1994-1995, Shotgun Saturday Night from 1997-1998, Sunday Night Heat of
1998, or recap the old Coliseum Video “Best of” videos of the 1980s? Whichever option gets the most support is
where I will head for next week and as always, thanks for reading and
interacting with these reviews.
Monday Night War Rating: 4.9 (vs. 4.6 for Nitro)
Show Evaluation: Thumbs Up
Go in to 1999!
ReplyDeleteCena cheats on his wife and puts himself first.
ReplyDeleteOwens does it for his family. #truerolemodel
Just throw a bunch of guys in a room. It's a subject that needs both backstage personnel and in-ring talent.
ReplyDeleteWas that 92, i totally blanked on that. I own it too.
ReplyDeleteThat whole show was laid out as if it were booked on a cocktail napkin 2 hours before the PPV started.
ReplyDeleteKeep it going into 1999.
ReplyDeleteCome on, you have to keep up to the next RAW where everything changed in the Monday Night War for good.
ReplyDeleteThat was very much a last minute angle for that match that came directly in response to the steriod/sex scandal pieces airing simultaneously on multiple tabloid shows a couple of weeks before the show.
ReplyDeleteThey wanted Hogan to lay low fast. Mr. Nanny often gets mentioned as a reason for his departure, but I don't think that even started filming until the end of 1992.
I always got the feeling that the steroid scandal forced Vince's hand a lot sooner than he desired in terms of going smaller and younger. That may have been where he wanted to go, but maybe in 1993 or even 1994, certainly not in the fall of 1992. Seemed so forced and not organic at all
ReplyDeleteIs there a story for why that move occurs anyway? I assume they just realized their European tours were money and made the switch.
ReplyDeleteAction Zone from 94-95. Raw's been done to death so let's have something different
ReplyDeleteThe thing I've wondered is when did Vince call the Warrior?
ReplyDeleteHe definitely made sure he was off the juice or at least cycling down by the time of his run in.
It's crazy that both guys in the main event were gone within weeks of the show. It's very Brock/Goldberg. Savage/Liz were separated a few weeks later as well.
Mr. Nanny didn't come out until late 1993, so it's doubtful (but possible) it started filming in mid-1992.
ReplyDeleteI thought the title said Shano vs Hogan (as in Shane-o-Mac). Then tried to imagine that match, with Shane bumping his ass off for Hogan.
ReplyDelete"WrestleMania 8 really was the swan song for the 1980s WWF."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Just look how different the roster looked one year later at Mania IX.
As a child I thought Papa Shango was terrifying
ReplyDeleteI remember Warrior's new look started all those rumors back then that the real Warrior died and this was a replacement.
ReplyDeleteSo did I. The first house show I went to had him vs Warrior and I was terrified he was going to pull some some shit and set the place on fire.
ReplyDeleteI was so scared of him that I had to stop watching wrestling for a few weeks on mom's orders.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny but when I was a kid I didn't even notice Warrior or Savage were smaller. But looking back at it now, t-shirt Savage was especially smaller than he had been.
ReplyDeleteWell he was programmed with Warrior right away, so Vince must have seen Shango on that level.I don't see any other reason why Shango, of all people, would get involved in the main event if they didn't view him as a top heel.
ReplyDeleteLet's not insult Tito. Sure, his wife's cooking often have Bobby Heenan the runs, but he was above Truth's level.
ReplyDeleteBret really wasn't in the inner circle at the time though. He'd know what Vince told him or what was going around the dressing room but even he had no idea he was winning the title until he did.
ReplyDeleteWell they had to capitalize on his cousin Areba McEntyre's popularity.
ReplyDeleteJust saying he was barely winning matches at that point unless it was over a total jobber on Superstars or something. So to make him champ would have been a stretch.
ReplyDeleteI remember a rumor that Papa Shango was going to return to the WWF to either team with the Undertaker or feud with him in 1997. This was a pretty legit possibility because I remember buying a WWF Trivia Card game in 1996/1997 that featured the current roster, and Papa Shango was inexplicably included despite not being a character on WWF TV for years. Clearly they were factoring his return into the long-term plans, but instead he was quitely brought back as Kama Mustafa in the Nation. What happened here?
ReplyDeleteWell I remember wondering why he didn't use it to just beat Bret Hart but I was just a really stupid 4th grade kid.
ReplyDeleteCan we tie this into the fact that Hogan had heat when he returned to WWF in 2002 and called Charles Wright "Papa Shango" backstage?
ReplyDeleteIt's one of the entries in the "Stupid Things Wrestlers Have Gotten Heat Over" annals.
Nxt is on Wednesdays.
ReplyDeletePapa Shango sadly isn't one of Vince's more racist characters.
ReplyDeleteBut if Hogan was leaving and they figured he'd be back for Summerslam, that would explain Shango's run-in. Shango may have been the plan for Summerslam on the day of Wrestlemania. But like you said, once the feud with Warrior bombed I doubt they follow through with Hogan/Shango.
ReplyDeleteHe got heat for calling him Papa Shango?
ReplyDeleteHeat from who?
ReplyDeleteI don't remember, but apparently some folks backstage thought Hulk was being disrespectful or some stupid wrestler bullshit.
ReplyDeleteI can see that. The man worked hard to establish himself as a pimp and Hogan's talking to him like he's still some voodoo master.
ReplyDeleteVery similar in a historical sense to how certain decades influence doesn't end until a few decades into the next one. The 1950s, for example, really ended with the Kennedy assassination, and the 1990's ended on 9/11.
ReplyDeleteI guess he didn't give Hogan a discount after that.
ReplyDeleteThe '80s era of baseball ended with Joe Carter's HR to win the World Series. In '94 it really became a different game--offense exploded, TV coverage changed, fans got more cynical for a number of reasons, new classic ballparks started rapidly replacing the concrete-and-steel multipurpose ashtray stadiums, and the bright colors, stretch belt uniforms, and speed-happy style of the previous decade went away.
ReplyDeleteAnyone today complaining "He was buried!" when someone loses on TV today. Take note of Mick Foley's week. Pinned by Road Dogg. Capture WWF World Title next week.
ReplyDeleteI vote Prime Time Wrestling 1991. Start with the live studio shows.
ReplyDeleteHaving it in a stadium was a bigger deal than having it in an arena
ReplyDeleteTruly unprecedented in the annals of WM history. Can you imagine a major show like, say, WrestleMania 7 having the wheels come off and timing get fucked up all over the place in the second half of the show?
ReplyDeleteAlso let's not forget the WWF title match going on 4th, the prime "heel wins the main event" WWF slot, only for Savage to win anyway. Setting up a summer house show program involving the dastardly heel Flair chasing the babyface champ who had already beaten him and decisively taken his woman back. Wha?
Yeah, right . . . "rumors".
ReplyDeleteIt's weird how WWE P.R. treats WM IX like it was a great show, but constantly trashes WM VIII.
ReplyDeleteStrangely enough, Wrestlemania 8 was also the debut of the set they would use for TV and PPVs right up through the launch of the dark, gritty Attitude Era set.
ReplyDeletetoo bad he wasn't around longer he could have become a gangster, evangelist, or a dancer.
ReplyDeleteSavage/Roberts, Taker/Sid and Hogan/Flair. There is your three WM VIII Main Events.
ReplyDeletePeople scoff at the idea that Tito Santana was one of several finalists for the title in '92...but one of the reasons I actually believe it is because I would have only been MARGINALLY more shocked to open up my PWI Weekly to find that Santana had won the belt, and most of that would be because of the El Matador outfit and even I as a kid knew that gimmicky guys didn't generally hold titles. That's how flabbergasting it was to find out that Bret had won the title.
ReplyDeleteI was shocked when Vince had announced Bret was champion. I was sure Warrior was going to regain the title
ReplyDeleteI'm not being facetious when I say that a pivotal moment in WWF production history came at--I forget if it was the USA primetime special before SummerSlam or Survivor Series--which had the first video wall.
ReplyDeleteI thought it sat in post-production purgatory for awhile, but I could be misremembering.
ReplyDeleteIf Hogan sticks around, I think they may as well run Hogan vs. Flair as part of a triple main event (Savage-Warrior, Hart-Bulldog, Hogan-Flair). Running Hulk vs. Flair in Wembley would have been bad ass. Give Shango to Undertaker, if he must have a high profile match
ReplyDeleteThe black goo freaked me the fuck out
ReplyDeleteThat's true. Also in 94, he was also rumored to be the reason why Bob Backlund snapped. Voo doo. For real
ReplyDeleteShango is pretty much the definitive "Undertaker cannon fodder" heel....but that match never went down on PPV
ReplyDeleteIt was after Mania 7 that Savage really shrunk, as he was taking retirement and having kids seriously (it's best to be off the stuff for babymaking, hence the fat HHH throughout 04-06 years)
ReplyDeleteHated that thing
ReplyDeletePapa Shango, Kamala, & The Headshrinkers made way to much sense as a stable to actually happen.
ReplyDeleteTrue. But it took them another year in 93 to install programming into the bulbs for flashing. Mania 8 it only stayed lit.
ReplyDeleteThey lost Pat Patterson in February due to the scandals. He really was the right hand man at the tv shoots
ReplyDeleteI think Bruce was back in Texas for some of 92...he returned late
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the company that had the guy that jobs to Barrett all the time as their champ? And he beat the smiling jobber for the title and he beat a guy that claps for the title? I mighta heard something about those guys being on some network or something.
ReplyDeleteUsual WWE booking suggests long bouts of jobbing leads to a championship shortly after.
ReplyDeleteActually, you could be right. According to IMDb, while Mr. Nanny was released in October 1993 in the US, it was released in April 1993 in the UK. This article about the Hogans building a home from November 1992 mentions the movie was already filmed:
ReplyDeletehttp://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-15/realestate/re-779_1_hollywood-hills-home
So Hogan *did* shoot Mr. Nanny before his return in March 1993.
I suspect they were going to run Undertaker-Sid at SummerSlam. Kamala was signed expressly and specifically to be Sid's replacement after he flaked.
ReplyDeleteAh, the crappy video wall.
ReplyDeleteBetween that and The Serpent And The Rainbow, yeah.
ReplyDeletetotally agree, I always considered WM8 the end of an era.
ReplyDeleteah yes, the Atari Titantron.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who thought that Shango was great when he came to the ring with the cylinder hat and his cape and stuff but then when he removed everything he was just a bald guy with a painted face and kind of lame in the ring.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the first half of WM8 is on the level of all-time great, but things just go off the railings after the title match. If the Warrior did not run down in probably one of the biggest surprise endings, it would have been a total waste.
ReplyDeleteyeah it was a massive surprise to most I am sure. I was conditioned to a certain kind of wrestler being champion and Bret just won it with no advance. It was a huge surprise.
ReplyDeleteI remember that Undertaker and Bearer had an article interview in WWF Magazine that focused on Shango, sure they were thinking about it, but it I suppose the Warrior feud flamed Shango out.
ReplyDeleteOmg I'm so outraged you said that just now.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Steen is hotter than Nikki Bella.
ReplyDeletePiper and Jake left too and they were featured in prominent matches at WM8. The WWF roster took a beating in 1992.
ReplyDeleteThe OSW lads also brought up a great point that it was stupid to have Savage giving incomprehensible commentary at WM 9 when he stole the show at the previous two WMs.
ReplyDeleteIf he came out 10 years earlier he would have gotten over like crazy.
ReplyDeleteLooking at it now Santana actually makes perfect sense as being on the list. Business is going down a bit so Vince is looking to get some appeal going in another country, the nearest two countries are Canada and Mexico. Both Santana and Hart are smaller guys, ring technicians as well in the event he's looking to keep the purists. And you get the shock value of "WTF? *He's* the champ?" The only issue I would've had with Santana was all the jobbing he had been doing.
ReplyDeleteYep, I remember the announcers hyping a Shango/Taker feud on air, which I thought was weird since they never really interacted at that point.
ReplyDeleteThus far, we have 3 votes for 1999, 2 for PTW, and 1 for Action Zone. I'll keep checking back to this column until around Friday and make the decision for that. Eventually, I'll get to everything, but it'll take many, many years!
ReplyDeleteyeah it was ridiculous, they had a Wrestlemania MAIN EVENT guy doing commentary. Who wrestled in 3 of the greatest Wrestlemania matches of all time.
ReplyDeleteConsidering how weak the card was...come on
eh, I think Hogan-Flair in WWF kind of died a death after it was pulled at WM8. Not sure how they could still have Hogan-Flair with no title involved and Flair already losing to Savage.
ReplyDeleteVince's decision to bench Savage for his age after the 1993 Rumble made no sense considering he still used Hogan, Lawler, Backlund, and Piper off-and-on for the next 2 years despite being around Savage's age.
ReplyDeleteWhat's even odder is that Savage still did a somewhat regular house show schedule, he just didn't wrestle on TV
It made no sense to me that he wasn't doing some kind of a "passing the torch" match. Savage vs Bret could have been AWESOME. If Hogan wanted a big win, let Yoko be the Fat Hogan Monster of the Month.
ReplyDeleteIt should have been Hart retaining against Macho in the main event.
ReplyDeleteRumor has it that Savage pitched a 2-year passing of the torch arc involving Shawn Michaels that Vince rejected
ReplyDeleteIt seems like we don't get as many random plugs as we used to.
ReplyDeleteWe are infinitely better as a people for Bob getting over as a crazy old man
ReplyDeleteBoogeyman was too over the top. Papa Shango still looks legit freaky watching him as an adult.
ReplyDeleteI vote PTW 1991, but I won't be heartbroken if you do '99 RAW instead.
ReplyDeleteOption 3: Owens wins and we get the old "Cena battles his own demons" storyline rehashed again.
ReplyDeleteAre you crazy!? Action Zone every time!
ReplyDeleteI think the most likely scenario is Cena wins clean, and they do a rubber match the next month.
ReplyDeleteIf Owens wins clean again it will a) shut everyone up b) create a compelling storyline for Cena where there's one guy who he simply cannot beat no matter what. I think there was something to Cena emphasising on RAW that no matter whether he wins or loses he's still the #1 guy and I think he can retain that even if Owens beats him 3 times in a row (won't happen but would be great)
ReplyDeleteI love that idea. I loved it especially when they were doing it with Shelton and HHH, where even though HHH was dominating everyone Shelton totally had his number any time they wrestled.
ReplyDeleteWas Kamala ever any good? He was useless in 92. I know he's a nice man who Vince has fucked over, but he was garbage in the ring.
ReplyDeleteC) Make everyone on this blog very happy therefore making it the "smart" choice.
ReplyDeletepimpin' is certainly not easy
ReplyDeleteSo how long before Owens is the in pie eating contests and jobbing on Superstars?
ReplyDeleteI would go for Cena reversing a pop up powerbomb into a rana pin. Would be an ace visual, wouldn't kill Owens' cred like losing via 'the Cena usual' and then you could have KO lay him out afterwards to keep him as very much the bad guy.
ReplyDeleteScrew that. Owens wins (again) and clean, "hurts" Cena with the apron powerbomb and gets him off the air for a couple of months to film a movie or whatever.
ReplyDeleteYou then do a slow turn where Owens is lauded by HHH/Stephanie until he sets his sights on Rollins and the world title, thereby organically turning face when they try to talk him out of the title shot (this works EVERY time) and Owens tells them to go to hell. Boom - face turn.
GET IT??? Because he's FAT, right???
ReplyDeleteThe guy has had one match in the company and you're booking his eventual face turn? Why not calm it down a notch. You'll have him in the main event of Wrestlemania 32 against the biggest draw in history Brock Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Option 2 is that Cena's STF doesn't look remotely painful.
ReplyDeleteRun up behind Cena and punk him out of the match. Put him on the shelf. Owens squashes jobbers until the build to SummerSlam where Cena comes back.
ReplyDeleteWell he is fat but I was more talking about how he lacks any sort of talent. So he's fat, untalented, overrated, I could go on. The cool thing about this push though is that when it goes away everyone on here will lose their mind, delcare Vince senile, predict the death of the WWE, and proclaim themselves never watching not only the WWE ever again but the Network. It'll be cute.
ReplyDeleteFace Steen was kinda boring. He had his moments, but he needs a really dastardly heel to work against. I think heel Owens is the way to go for a while.
ReplyDeleteWe've seen the "Cena loses match 1, wins match 2 through infinity" booking before and it didn't work.
ReplyDeleteWhy not try "Cena loses match 1 through infinity" instead.
So that would include you right?
ReplyDeleteTrolls are everywhere.
ReplyDeleteI wish I were so non-talented I could go from sitting on the turnbuckle to hitting a springboard moo daily in 0.2 seconds.
No question Bret was the best option of the bunch. BUT, there were no "good" options. Every single potential candidate had major drawbacks, including Bret.
ReplyDeleteHard to tell with that gimmick. Guy was from a completely different era in terms of character (if not age).
ReplyDelete1 match? Check your math, mate.
ReplyDelete1 against CJ Parker.
2 against Sami Zayn.
2 against Adrian Neville.
2 against Alex Riley.
1 against Solomon Crowe.
1 against Finn Balor.
1 against John Cena.
And...how ever many house show matches he's done.
But that's 10 matches on TV.
Owens suckers Cena into accepting no DW and then muderizes him.
ReplyDeleteOwen's what?
ReplyDeleteI think the finish is going to be Owens apron power bombing him and Cena doing a stretcher job.
ReplyDeleteHe played his gimmick well when he was allowed to look like a killer (as he was in Mid-South and to a lesser degree World Class) and not like a retard. The Hogan matches in '87 are good for what they are, and he had a bodyslam match in the AWA against Crusher Blackwell that I really liked. If you go into a Kamala match expecting moonsaults and high WERKRATE, forget it, but he was an otherwise compelling character who could draw big money.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the other night I watched him wrestle two trios matches for CMLL from '91, and it's astounding how well he fit in in an environment where I've seen many an American/Canadian look completely lost. He also switched things up by working almost like a cocky dick, doing fake handshakes, an Ali shuffle, mockingly holding the ropes open for his opponent, etc. It was a lot of fun.
No no. Austin/Brock is set in stone for WM32. Just like Austin/Punk was the past few years.
ReplyDeleteTroll alert.
ReplyDeleteTriple S is the guy who thinks that JBL is an A+ talent and NXT if filled with boring, RoH types.
ReplyDeleteHe also thinks that Lucha Underground is flavorless and bland. And prefers 1999 Raw crash TV to the NXT specials.
This morning I watched the Owens/Cena deal from Raw. Know what I was thinking? I'd really like to see Cena feud with a faith healer. I bet if someone had people lined up and was curing them of sickness and disease Cena would absolutely lose it.
ReplyDeleteAllow me to be more specific. By TV I meant network television as in a television network such as USA which airs Monday Night RAW. And by Company I mean the WWE not the minor league NXT thats broadcast mostly on the WWE Network with a few Hulu viewers. I apologize for not being more specific. He's had one match on TV in the WWE. I hope this helps.
ReplyDeleteI always loved the end of an era symbolism of the 3 guys carrying the company for the next 5 years, Shawn, Taker, and Bret going over 1980's stalwarts Tito, Jake, and Piper.
ReplyDeleteFace Steen is the guy that's overshadowed by El Generico. He's a good "best buddy" or part of a collection of top guys, but shouldn't be the number one guy.
ReplyDeleteI just realized that Owens/Cena is another variation on the "everyman vs corporate champ" feud that everyone loved about Punk/Cena. It obviously resonates a lot.
ReplyDeleteBig E's the closest they've got. He has the faith healer promo nailed.
ReplyDeleteI think Shelton beat HHH twice. And if I remember correctly (I could be wrong, it's been a while) Trips beat him quite easily the next time they wrestled.
ReplyDeleteThe apron powerbomb does appear to be the one trump card Owens hasn't played yet.
ReplyDeleteYes thats right and even though the WWE is incompetent and embarrassing and poorly ran. And even though there is NO WAY they could sell out 100,000 seats (after all they only sold 50,000 seats at Wrestlemania...Dave said so). All that being said Austin/Brock would sell out Wrestlemania...because Brock is a giant fucking draw.
ReplyDeleteNah I don't think so - it's really early to turn Steen. He's had all of two matches and we're already fantasy booking his face turn because "we" like him so much.
ReplyDeleteIsn't evangelizing part of the New Day gimmick, too? It would be a great addition to start doing in-ring faith healing.
ReplyDeleteI love how when I say some shit that isn't popular I'm a troll. Its like you guys stick your hands in your ears and scream "la la la la I can't hear you" "Brock is a draw" "Steve Austin is great" "Vince is bad" "Triple H is too EVIL Dave told me so". Hahaha it warms my heart.
ReplyDeleteI would say that based on last night's interaction and promotion by WWE, Austin/Brock is far more likely than Austin/Punk ever was (and that's even with a limited chance of it happening).
ReplyDeleteRoH was on cable TV as well while Steen was in the company.
ReplyDeleteAnd NXT gets broadcast on TV overseas.
If Austin comes back for one more match it has to be against John Cena. Hell the storyline is right there. John Cena is the corporate asshole the do gooder, the WWE man that Austin never wanted to be. Cena vs. Austin would sell 200,000 tickets.
ReplyDeleteMight as well continue with 1999
ReplyDeleteIt different. Because instead of being about who's the "best wrestler" this feud is based around who the "best person" is.
ReplyDeleteYuuup. Papa Shango scared the balls off me as a kid, I admit it.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I'd do. There's nothing wrong with the classics. Heel wins first one in a hard fought match. Heel has to cheat/Get DQ'd to win second match. Face trains hard and wins final match.
ReplyDeleteThe heel is strong because he won twice. and smart because his second win was by nefarious means. The face is strong because he wins the final one. Everyone wins!
1999!
ReplyDeletePlease. You know what he meant. When has ROH airings factored into how a guy is pushed in the WWE? I disagree with some of what Triple S says as much as some of you, but he is spot on when saying it is a little early to start planning out the length of his career. Lots of guys have great starts and don't pan out for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteNot straight face. The crowd already wants to turn him - let them, but do it slow. Bret v. Austin, but without the double turn.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it an unsmart choice if that's what you're saying?
ReplyDeleteAnyone facing Cena will get some cheers. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves with the Austin comparisons.
ReplyDeleteShasta Whatley
ReplyDeleteAustin in that it'd be an organic turn, not Austin in that Owens is the "new" Austin (we can see how successful that gambit has been with Ambrose and his magic ambulance).
ReplyDeleteHow is Owens untalented? What do you want from your wrestlers that he doesn't give you?
ReplyDeleteWell, he did join Right to Censor, so he was sort of an evangelist for awhile.
ReplyDeleteI imagine because they were entering the Attitude Era and the gimmick was too silly. That's my theory, anyway.
ReplyDeleteTriple S called Lucha the best promotion in NA IIRC.
ReplyDeleteThat said, he's still either a moron or a troll.
Yeah, I'd say steen's ceiling as a face is like Jericho level.
ReplyDeleteNo question.
ReplyDeleteNo 1999. I say Superstars since that's unchartered waters around here.
ReplyDeleteOnce again you're suffering from the same thing a lot of people on here suffer from. You like somebody and YOU want the fans to react a certain way so you start projecting your thoughts on "the fans already want to turn him". He's been on RAW what three weeks? Thats just a silly statement. If in six months the crowds are going apeshit for the guy then yeah lets see how people react after the Cena program is over.
ReplyDeleteDid he? Well stopped clock and all that.
ReplyDeleteI could have sworn he said something about it sucking.
And I'm leaning towards moron.
Yep, that's the one.
ReplyDeleteThere would be nothing wrong with Owens being the guy that finally had John Cena's number.
ReplyDeleteIt's ridiculous to plan out anybodies careers because we're all just fans shooting the shit.
ReplyDeleteAnd bringing up the success of another promotion that Kevin Steen was the top guy for is not at all irrelevant to this discussion. He was draw enough for a company that makes money.
And Kevin could go horribly wrong. Guy has had quite a bit of wear and tear, so yes, he could get injured. But why the fuck would we sit around and book random injuries onto the people we like?
Didn't Kozlov come in feuding wtih Triple H or somebody maybe not right away but damn near right away? Even Brodus Clay started out with a big time push. I'm not saying these guys had a bigger push than Owens because nobody ever has but its not unheard of for a guy to fuck up, or flake out or just not fit into the WWE long term plans and fade away.
ReplyDeletePeople say you're a troll because you say ridiculous shit that you don't support with facts.
ReplyDeleteYou realize just because somebody is a main eventer for a promotion doesn't make them a draw right? Did Steen make them more money than others? I would think Steen doesn't crack the top of the ROH draws. Saying somebody main evented some shows and had a program on top doesn't mean they were a draw. Do you have any numbers that he was a draw or is it more "hey I like this guy, he was on top of ROH which makes money so he's a draw".
ReplyDeleteRead somewhere, think lance storms blog, that he adresses wrestlers by how they introduce themselves. If thats the etiquette, makes sense if that's how Hogan knew him. I must be getting sick if I'm semi defending Hogan
ReplyDeleteNo I love Lucha Underground its the best promotion in the world and not only that its the best promotion since Smackdown in 2003. That being said RAW's crash tv is a thousand times better than NXT its not even in the same league.
ReplyDeleteCheck the music thread I mention how Lucha is the only wrestling show in Weds nights. I then go on to mock NXT. It was a good time.
ReplyDeleteAngelico in Lucha is what I want from wrestlers. Alberto Patron is pretty bad ass as well. Christian circa 2005 was pretty damn good as well.
ReplyDeleteTito as champion would have never worked without Jesse Ventura.
ReplyDeleteI'm really enjoying this Owens love. It's a lot of fun seeing an indie favorite connect on the big stage.
ReplyDeleteFacts like Brock Lesnar is a big time draw? Facts like him and Austin are going to sell out the arena? Facts like Vince is senile and behind the times? Facts like HHH is evil and is only successful because he married Steph? Facts like the Bellas are sluts? Facts like the WWE creative team are embarrassing and don't know how to write TV? Are those facts supported?
ReplyDeleteI caught the Cena/Owens promo this morning. Cena, to me, came off like a complete jackass.
ReplyDeleteI was just saying that if the WWE does something people on here don't agree with its considered a horrible choice and wildly panned but if they say push someone they like all of the sudden its a genius...smart...incredible choice that will go on to make them a lot of money. People pretend like Steen vs. Cena wouldn't draw nearly the same number as Cena vs. Kane would on top of a ppv.
ReplyDeleteWhat made it worse is WCW knew exactly what to do with him.
ReplyDeleteOption 3: Owens beats Cena and Cena fucks off and returns as a heel months later like 97 Bret.
ReplyDeleteYour opinion isn't the slightest bit biased either!
ReplyDeleteLogically Owens is already the Face and Cena is the heel in feud. Owens challenged him to a fight. John Cena acted like an arrogant prick by saying "Let me give you some veteran advice." Owens then proved that Cena was full of shit by pointing out that Cena was full of shit because Owens was held back. He further proved this point by beating Cena completely clean. I fail to see how this makes Owens a heel, but that's just me.
ReplyDeletePeople say this about literally every feud with Cena.
ReplyDeleteExactly. This whole thing reeks of Austin/Bret.
ReplyDeleteGod you're worthless as a poster. You're devolving to dougie level. Give it a few weeks youll just be responding "lol"
ReplyDeleteThe only difference here is Owens did exactly what he said and DIDN'T cheat.
ReplyDeleteRusev's foot can be their first "miracle"
ReplyDeleteAlso leaning towards moron
ReplyDeleteThe draw shit is not my business and I don't argue it or pay attention to it. There's smart people who try to determine that stuff. You want to trade information about buyrates? Go ahead, as is I'll trust the people who say he's a draw unless I see prove otherwise.
ReplyDeletePeople insulting Triple H and the Bellas usually get called out.
Shit like WWE creative being embarrassing bad and Vince being senile come from watching the fucking show. Which is something I doubt you do if you think Kevin Owens sucks.
Cena was such a prick on Monday night, that he SHOULD be the heel in this feud
ReplyDeleteIt was the Unstoppable thread where you talk about how NXT is generic (despite the existence of pretty dynamic wrestling "characters") and you complained that their version of a PPV had tons of wrestling on it.
ReplyDeleteUSE.
ReplyDeleteCOMMAS.
FUCKING CHRIST!
Rusev jumping around in joy after being healed would be an awesome sight.
ReplyDeleteIts nice to know that as inside as some people try to be they still get worked over marks are gonna be marks right?
ReplyDeleteSteen was champion for a year when the head of creative hated/strongly disliked him. If he wasn't drawing enough money to keep them stable I don't see why he'd be champion.
ReplyDeleteAnd if we're shooting around "do you have any numbers" I'd like to see your numbers proving he's not a draw.
Otherwise I'm going to stick with accepted wrestling tradition (which holds especially true for RoH) and say that if they're making money then the guy on top (which in RoH was the champion) gets the credit.
Also the "let me give you some veteran advice" is a big time dickish thing to say to someone who actually has more experience than you. Other than the fact that Michael Cole talks about how terrible Owens is, if someone hasn't already watched NXT, I dont think WWE has given people a single reason to boo Owens.
ReplyDeleteIts basically 97 Bret going off on his rants about how everyone is a lying degenerate but he's a hero while being a whiny complainer and using foul language.
ReplyDeleteAnd that was an awesome slow burn heel turn for Bret. I liked going back to the late 96 Raws and watching how he slowly added heel elements to his character. This would be an awesome slow burn heel turn for Cena, but no one actually believes he's turning heel. So he's just acting like a dick for no reason, and that's kind of stupid.
ReplyDeleteDQ win for Cena. That way Cena wants the third match. Owens has already beat Cena--he wouldn't demand a third match to beat him again just to prove he can when he's already won clean the first time. Cena has to be the one who demands another match, and you only get that if Cena wins the second on a technicality.
ReplyDeleteThat's not to say they won't just have Cena win the next two and the story be Cena proving Owens is a blowhard. But I am slightly optimistic given they haven't (yet) announced the rematch as a stipulation match of some kind.
If this righteous Cena promo and this veteran advice stuff is a slow burn for a heel turn then this is actually brilliant stuff. His promo last night pissed a lot of people off.
ReplyDelete1999 just to keep the train rolling, but as a secondary pick... PTW 91-92.
ReplyDeletePossible Russo-riffic idea: Next week, Cena brings out a Make-a-Wish kid, blah blah blah, invites him to be in his corner at MitB. Only in a massive swerve the kid is actually KO's son, grabs Cena's foot leading to a power bomb and a pin, father and son celebrate, and then the next night on Raw KO explains how they set up this whole fake thing because they knew Cena was a sucker for cancer kids, etc.
ReplyDeleteI would have Owens win clean again. Make a fucking star.
ReplyDeleteWWE should be less concerned with the rubber match and more interested in creating YEARS of fresh main events
You never know. Owens is quite popular quite fast like Austin and after they Diesel'd Reigns history could be repeating itself here. Maybe they're just being really subtle about it.
ReplyDeleteIf so, no way the monkey writers are scripting this shit. A major shift in Cenas character like that no doubt has his input.
That might be Russo-riffic but I *adore* it
ReplyDeleteIf Owens absolutely has to lose, pulling the Bret/Diesel ending is the best way I can think of. Make it so Owens is going for a second or third powerbomb on Cena just to make a statement and Cena does Bret's dead weight trick. Owens goes crazy, destroys everything after the match - refs, announcers, whoever. Triple H banishes him back to NXT, and he shows up periodically to make Cena's life hell until Cena's had enough and demands the final match.
ReplyDeleteIf Owens absolutely has to lose, pulling the Bret/Diesel ending is the
ReplyDeletebest way I can think of. Make it so Owens is going for a second or third
powerbomb on Cena just to make a statement and Cena does Bret's dead
weight trick. Owens goes crazy, destroys everything after the match -
refs, announcers, whoever. Triple H banishes him back to NXT, and he
shows up periodically to make Cena's life hell until Cena's had enough
and demands the final m