Here's something for discussion. Pick someone to send from WWE to TNA and one to go from TNA to WWE and the move is the best for both companies and the wrestler's career.
TNA to WWE
Matt Morgan – Sticks out like a sore thumb in TNA, and they wouldn't have to try and throw him into random tag teams to justify his spot. WWE screwed up with him the first time, but the stuttering thing is ancient history.
WWE to TNA
Evan Bourne – WWE doesn't care about any of the strengths Bourne has. In TNA he is tailor made for the X-Division and has a ton of friends in the company. I could see him with a tag run and maybe some world title shots.
Well, Morgan is already happening, so get ready now. They're just waiting for the lawsuit thing to blow over, basically, but he was pretty much going to debut a few weeks ago and now can't thanks to Ric Flair. My alternate pick would be AJ Styles (although it would realistically never happen) because they can instantly plunk him into feuds with D-Bry or Punk and he'd be totally fine there. I think Bully Ray could have another singles run in WWE with this character, too.
Going the other way, Tyson Kidd is the obvious choice for me, but he's basically living his dream right now and I wouldn't want to take that away from him. The Miz would be a great choice, because he could bring media cred their way and could work the big main event style they need. Ditto John Morrison. I think Ziggler and Swagger would fit well there too. Especially if Swagger joined up with Angle as his All-American stooge.
About 90 percent of the WWE roster would be better off in TNA, and I think Ziggler is the only one who would stand a chance of catching fire. It's a sorry testament on the WWE's behalf that nobody outside of Punk/Cena/Taker/Brock would cause a stir if they left.
ReplyDeleteFor fuck's sake Scott, there is NOTHING GOOD OR WORTHWHILE ABOUT THE TALENTLESS HACK JOHN MORRISON! NOTHING WORTHWHILE!!!!!
ReplyDeleteMiz was always the talented one of the pair, Morrison is just a stupid gym bunny who's entire WWE career was based off of his looks (long hair, tall, and the notion of Vince always favoring the talentless ones over the ones with talent) and who had ZERO upside.
Keep him the fuck away from TNA because quite frankly, Morrison does not deserve the "WWE Cast-Off" push he'd get since he didn't even deserve his WWE push to begin with!!!!!!
Bully Ray to WWE... as long as they let him be 'him'.
ReplyDeleteZiggler to TNA he maybe getting the monster push soon (dreaming?), but in TNA he'd be World Champion and have killer matches with well.. everyone.
Am I the only one that thinks Samoa Joe to WWE would be printing money for Vince, as long as they don't f with his name too much? Or is that just not possible I don't read all the sheets all the time.
ReplyDeleteAs far as WWE to TNA, in the interest of naming someone Scott didn't name already I'll go off the board and pick Justin Gabriel. 450 splashes fit in more with TNA and his size would not be an issue.
What are you getting at there, Jesse?
ReplyDeleteI always thought WWE missed the boat on Bubba. Ever since Foley retired, WWE has never been able to recreate that everyman dynamic that he had. I think the closest they came was with Bubba in 2002. He had like a 3 week feud with HHH including an awesome Raw match and then he went right back down to the mid-card.
ReplyDeleteI think the eventual face turn for Bully Ray could be pretty big for TNA.
His size isn't an issue in WWE. Plenty of guys his size have been main eventers. He's just not very good.
ReplyDeleteLOUD NOISES!!!!!
ReplyDeletePunk retweeted something about still having heat with AJ Styles (or vice versa), anyone know where that comes from?
ReplyDeleteRandy Orton to TNA would be huge, and is only one strike away. Would be huge deal too.
I'd go with Ziggler to TNA- I think he just needs a clean break from all their weird jobber BS in the 'E and getting a good, consistent push where he can shed his stupid name would do him a world of good.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Joe to WWE, because Vince has shown a love of Samoans in the past and I think the change of scenery would do him a world of good, even if it's just for a year or two.
Just tired of people thinking John Morrison was some sort of underrated wrestling genius who should be brought back and given a push to the moon.
ReplyDeleteMorrison was never any good and I'm glad he's gone/consigned to the Indies and I don't want to see waltzing into the TNA and taking someone with talent's push from them.
Morrison had one of the best ladder matches in history with fucking Sheamus of all people.
ReplyDeletePrinting money? No.
ReplyDeleteHe WAS underrated and they SHOULD give him a push to the moon because he has a good look, can work, and he's something fresh and different.
ReplyDeleteThis is stupid, even for you.
ReplyDeleteOrton/Jericho/Big Show/Sheamus?
ReplyDeleteMiz to TNA, PLEASE. He's got the talent to make it big there, and deserves way more than the complete nothing that WWE's got for him.
ReplyDeleteOrton or Jericho, yes. Big Show or Sheamus, no
ReplyDeleteThis seems like a good time to ask something that I was curious about. The other day someone tweeted to Punk something like; "AJ Styles made me cover my CM Punk shirt before he would take a picture with me, Is there still beef?" to which Punk responded with something like 'Envy'.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know more about it?
Actually, thinking about it, beyond questionable impact, neither Big Show or Sheamus would be able to keep their ring names as they are. But then, the likes of The Miz or Ziggler wouldn't either.
ReplyDeleteThe only guys for whom it would be a truly good career move to go from WWE to TNA are guys who either aren't getting on TV or barely are. In no way, shape or form is it a good career move for a guy like Miz or Ziggler to jump to TNA. Even if they're in a rut and will likely never ascend to previous heights (Miz) or are underutilized (Ziggler), the money they make from merchandise royalties and PPV payoffs alone are probably more than they could possibly make total in TNA even before you get to their downside guarantees that are at least low six figures. Even a guy like Ryder who was buried after being scorching hot late last year is raking in merchandise royalties.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's be honest here: like just about anyone else in the world, this is about the money for them. It's their job. When people ask these questions in the guise of "what would be best for their careers?" what they really mean is "what do I, the fan, selfishly want to see the most?" And that's fine to ask, because as a wrestling fan right now I'd love to see a guy like Ziggler in TNA because he would straight-up KILL there on what's been a much better show.
But there's no need to put it in the very false premise of what would be best for their careers. You know what the best move is for guys in the mid- to upper mid-card morass like Ziggler and Miz? Ride out the WWE wave as long as you can and if it ends up going nowhere and you're future endeavored, not re-signed or just see the writing on the wall that you've gone as far as you currently can, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in the meantime. THEN you can go to TNA, because we know damn well they'll take anyone with half a name from WWE no matter how they left.
Now, if a guy doesn't care about the money that much? If he doesn't want to travel as much and wants to work an easier schedule? Or don't want an employer to care about your drug use? Yeah, maybe TNA wouldn't be a bad move in that case. But in that case- hi, Kurt! Hi, Jeff!- you're talking about a personal choice, not a financially advisable career move.
And it's not going to lead to a return to WWE with bigger and better things, which is the only other argument you could really make for it being a good long-term career move. Christian is the only guy who really left WWE voluntarily to go to TNA to end up coming back to WWE to bigger and better things, unless I'm forgetting someone. Ron Killings is the only other big-name guy I can think of that came back to better WWE success than he had before, but he was let go so it's not like he made a choice.
Oh, come on. It's not that stupid.
ReplyDeleteI mean, yeah, it's stupid, but not "even for him." It's par for him.
OK, I know I just wrote about this in long-winded fashion just now, but when you say "90 percent of the WWE roster would be better off in TNA," are you voluntarily ignoring how much more money they're making than they could in TNA, and that this is their career in which they're trying to make as much money as possible, or are you forgetting about that altogether or and only thinking about how their wrestling character might be booked better for your entertainment on a different, far less viewed TV show?
ReplyDeletehttp://goo.gl/h8aRN
ReplyDeleteSheamus could go back to his indy name probably (Sheamus O'Shaunessey). I imagine Show would use the name he used during his WWE hiatus (I think it was 'The Great Wight')
ReplyDeleteEvan Bourne to TNA. He can lead the X Division and seems like he is about to be canned.
ReplyDeleteMagnus to WWE. He doesn't seem to fit in TNA and has potential than fellow countryman Wade Barrett, IMO
Considering "The Miz" is a shortened version of his last name I would bet Miz would be able to keep it, kinda like Booker T did when he went to TNA.
ReplyDeleteBut Sheamus is the Great White. Right?
ReplyDeleteI imagine the Miz could use that given that he's been using that name on television since the mid-90s and probably has been using it IRL since the mid-80s. I don't know everything about copyrights and trademarks but he definitely has the prior use clause signed sealed and delivered.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Some people confuse a guy not being a technical, psychological mastermind in the ring with being untalented, and that's just the dumbest thing ever.
ReplyDeleteTo call John Morrison a "talentless hack" is about as myopic, close-minded and just plain wrong as fuck as it gets. I take back what I said earlier: that's not only stupid as hell, but yes, it is in fact stupid even by Jesse's standards.
He not only has a great look and cuts a great pace in the ring, but he has a geniune, marketable hook with the parkour stuff that he actually works into his matches in awesome, not-just-a-mindless-spot-machine fashion.
His promos leave something to be desired, but he oozes natural charisma and is permanently over no matter what they did with him. Starship pain is kind of a dumb finisher, but again...it's over, so whatever.
John Morrison's terrific.
I'd completely forgotten Booker was in TNA. Bizarre.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at Morrison's greatest hits he's had some good stuff with Sheamus, good stuff with Punk, great stuff with Hardy and is probably in all 4 out of Miz's top 4 matches lifetime (3 way with Bryan, match that randomly got 30 minutes on ECW/NXT, 3 way with Punk, falls count anywhere on raw for the title that kicked way more ass than it had any business kicking).
ReplyDeleteHe's more than decent in the ring and definitely could be an asset to TNA's programming but given how stiff he is promo-wise I see him as closer to Shelton Benjamin than an actual money drawing wrestler.
If WWE was smart and not interested in pissing away money they would have paired him with Dolph and Vickie and eliminated the whole talking part from his act and he would have had another couple years to learn how to do that. But that's the price you pay for letting someone sleep with your girlfriend. And holy crap it hurt my brain to type that.
He was recently on Colt's podcast and was talking about doing all kinds of improv work and training to do film stunts, all basically in pursuit of being a better all around character for wrestling.
ReplyDeleteI think his best days are still ahead of him really.
I'm surprised Vince didn't rocket push him the first time around though, just because of his look, Morrison is totally his type.
He called himself "The Miz" when he would pretend to be a pro wrestler on The Real World and that was like...I don't know at least 3 or 4 years before he ever got to WWE (he was still on that delightful early 00's Road Rules/Real World/Road Rules Vs. Real World hamster wheel) so I'd think he could use it.
ReplyDeleteFrom a financial standpoint, this is all absolutely true, but sometimes people weigh non-financial incentives above financial concerns. s'life.
ReplyDeleteZiggler to TNA. Mike Mears has a point, but I still think it might pay off for Ziggler. He has a chance to be an exception, a la Christian. More so than just a long, reputation-building title reign, Ziggler needs the match and mic time that comes with it. Anyone who's seen his YouTube stuff can see that he can talk, but for whatever reason he's given virtually no mic time to get over on TV. We've all seen what a good worker he is, and yet he's not put in postion to get himself over on PPV by going more than 10 minutes. Either WWE is ignorant of his talents, or more likely it's the usually political bullshit. Either way, he might be better off bashing WWE over the head with it by realizing his full potential in TNA, and showcasing it for 2-3 years. Plus he can lose that terrible name. Nick Nemeth is a much better wrestling name.
ReplyDeleteAnd Angle back to WWE. There are other, arguably better choices, but I don't trust WWE to actually push any of them. Angle's homegrown pedigree ensures that he'd at least return as a main eventer. And Vince, for all his faults, has shown a great capacity for forgiveness when he thinks there's money to be made (provided Angle stops drunk-tweeting). Angle-Punk and Angle-Bryan would give Kurt one last payday, and give us some instant classics.
You're probably right, but I'm no legal expert on how this stuff works. Then again, neither is Jerry McDevitt, so it's REALLY hard to say.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, hence my second-to-last paragraph.
ReplyDeleteBut people making career decisions that will lead to them making far less money is the exception to the rule unless they're financially set for life when said decision is made, and when the conversation is based strictly off the premise of what would be best for their careers, talking about guys like Miz or Ziggler making a good career move by going to TNA is patently absurd.
If you want to make the argument that Ziggler could be the exception who would benefit from a run on top of TNA and come back to WWE in a better position to succeed, I can buy that. Maybe I'm being overly cynical in thinking it's best to ride out the WWE wave as long as possible and then go to TNA. There's absolutely something to be said for a guy who's willing to take less money, give their face a break from WWE fans and bet on their own talent to make something bigger of themselves down the road.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't know if Ziggler- or anyone else in particular- is that guy, and that's the problem. Almost all of these guys came up through WWE developmental and are so ingrained in the WWE system that they don't know how to stand up to Vince or how to bet on their own talent and make a big splash in TNA or elsewhere to freshen their act and take the risk of taking less money short-term to try to make themselves a bigger star long-term.
Punk wasn't afraid to play hardball with Vince last summer because he wasn't afraid to walk away. He knew he could survive on his own and come back a bigger star than ever because he didn't come up in their system.
One of these days, maybe guys like Ziggler will realize that WWE needs them as much as they need WWE and not be afraid to bet on themselves. But without a viable second option for wrestlers, that's a major risk for anyone to take.
Hopefully TNA keeps its momentum going and gets big enough to be, if not a true threat to WWE, at least a place that's financially viable for well-known WWE guys to leave for if they want to. Not that I want to see a flood of WWE castoffs in TNA, but it would quite possibly be an impetus for WWE to get their shit together if their talent realized WWE needs them as bad as they need WWE and didn't just accept whatever shitty role they're given.
To TNA: Rey Jr. He won't have to worry about drug tests, he'll get a big push in the X-division, and TNA could use the money from all the merch sales. Kids love the guy.
ReplyDeleteTo WWE: Can't really think of anyone. Guys like Styles and Joe would just get buried after getting a stupid name change and a likely stint in developmental, and I doubt they'd be interested anyway. Same for most of the rest of TNA's roster. I think the best bet would be someone like Angle or Kennedy in a return angle of some sort, but this still isn't a great idea. Maybe Abyss...
I wouldn't read too much into it. On Styes's part, as one of the 'cornerstones' of TNA it would be bad form to be pictured with somebody wearing the T-shirt of the WWE champ. And Punk may just have been joking.
ReplyDeleteOf course it's possible they hate each other's guts, but I wouldn't draw that conclusion based just on this story.
Mark LoMonaco & Devon Hughes called themselves "The Dudley Boyz" for three years before they signed with WWE. And several people in ECW used "the Dudleys" gimmick even before that.
ReplyDeleteYet somehow WWE wound up with the rights to that ring name. Of course that's because neither the Dudleys nor Heyman nor Raven ever bothered to legally copyright the name. The Miz may have been smart enough to do so before signing with the WWE.
Also, not to pile on this silly e-mailer, but Matt Morgan isn't even IN TNA anymore, so how lame of a pick is that? (Not to mention it comes from the "durr, Vince only loves big guys!" line of thought that's been proven wrong so many times. How many CM Punks, Daniel Bryans, Rey Mysterios, Shawn Michaels, Bret Harts, Eddie Guerreros, Chris Jerichos, Kurt Angles, Christians and Chris Benoits of the world need to win the WWE title before people stop thinking this?)
ReplyDeleteAnd if WWE didn't care about any of Evan Bourne's strengths, they wouldn't have constantly put him on TV, put the tag titles on him, put him over guys like Sheamus and Swagger, give him the Slammy for best finisher (yeah, a lame argument, but when you're arguing against something as stupid as "WWE doesn't care about Evan Bourne!" what are you supposed to do?), put him in Money in the Bank and Elimination Chamber matches....I mean, is he supposed to be in the main event? How the fuck do they not care about his strengths? They've constantly given him pretty good roles whenever he's been healthy and not suspended and they constantly put over his high-flying abilities.
Yeah, I caught that. It was pretty interesting. I like that he wasn't afraid to leave WWE and do something else. More guys need to be willing to do that to show WWE that they need them as much as those guys need WWE. I agree that his best days are ahead of him.
ReplyDeleteI was going to randomly ask this the other day, but I noticed in TNA they never referred to Christian as Christian. Always Christian Cage. Even when you'd normally just use the first name because you already established who you're talking about, always "Christian Cage". I wonder if that was due to copyright?
ReplyDeleteI would LOVE to see a Varsity Club style stable with Kurt, Swagger, Benjamin and Haas in TNA.
ReplyDeleteSo you're hypothesizing that Vince went with Shawn instead of Marty...because Shawn was the talentless one?
ReplyDeleteYeah it was. "Christian Cage" is the name he used before he was in the WWF/E. I assumed WWE must have copyrighted "Christian" by itself.
ReplyDeleteI think he'd could possibly have a good career in the WWE, but I certainly wouldn't say "printing money".
ReplyDeleteEh, the second paragraph made it seem more like an island of misfit toys deal than a legit choice. Certain guys would benefit from just doing a year tour of duty, healing up, polishing what they do and then coming back, and I'd argue that Ziggler has the talent to do that, if not the mindset (which you touched on later).
ReplyDeleteI mean, for guys who genuinely want to be pro wrestlers, actually enjoying what you're doing can be more important than making the most money- Look at Foley leaving WCW for instance. WWE is the place to go to make the most bank, but between the schedule and all the BS that seems to come with it, it's just seems like eventually someone is going to get sick of it, at least for a little bit.
Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle are big stars and deserve to be in the spotlight, drugs or not. Yeah yeah they could die and it would be bad PR and shine another Benoit like spotlight but when are we gonna start holding the person accountable, not their employer!
ReplyDeleteOh god don't forget they are supposed to be role models for children! Kids who have wrestlers(me) as role models grow up to be fucked up(also me) so who cares
Scott,
ReplyDeletewhy isn’t Morrison already in TNA? Was there some kind of no compete
clause when he got released from WWE? That just seemed like a sure fire
hiring when he was let go.
Now
onto who would make the biggest splash moving to the other company:
first off I don’t think the emailer was just saying which guy would get a
huge push or be in great matches if he switched companies. I also think
he was saying which guys would do good business and make money for the
other company.
I
actually think it’s a good question because with TNA being on kind of a
hot streak and needing a little extra push to really start getting some
attention and improving ratings, I think a few big name defections
would be huge. I also always think it’s worth the risk of walking away
from the money and glamour of the WWE if you don’t think they are
respecting you as a worker. That is the only way you can really prove to
them they are wrong by not pushing you.
But
I also think a guy like Ziggler would not benefit from that. First off I
know this is blasphemous to say on a smark blog but I actually think
Ziggler is kind of over rated. People say he reminds them of Mr.
Perfect. He does a little bit. But he actually reminds me more of a
smaller version of Billy Gunn. He doesn’t have that much personality,
sells very similar to Gunn and even has a similar look and the same
finisher. I’m not saying he’s terrible. I didn’t think Gunn was as bad
as some people think. But he’s also not the next Chris Benoit in the
ring. Plus he’s actually in a much better position than A LOT of the
guys on the WWE roster are. He is on Raw pretty much every week, on most
PPVs and he actually gets to win a few matches.
A
guy like Orton would be perfect to switch. He’s got huge name value and
even though I’ve never liked him, I actually think the switch would
make him fresh and improve him as a worker. The Miz would be great for
the name, and I actually think he’s a better worker than he’s given
credit for but I just don’t think he’d ever leave WWE. Plus I don’t know
if his silly gimmick would work outside the confines of WWE. Kane would
be nice cause of his name and experience. Plus he’s someone with size.
But the gimmick is obviously WWE’s and does he succeed without the
gimmick?
Ryder
would be a good one. That’s a young guy that is over that might bring
fans with him who are upset about his treatment. But than again, I was
upset about Christian’s treatment when he left WWE in 05 and I really
wanted to follow him to TNA but instead I just stopped watching
wrestling all together.
Someone
like Roode or Aries might work switching over because they are still
relatively young. But Daniels is too small and old and Samoa Joe is just
too old. Vince might like Samoans but he likes them as stereotypical
savages. The Rock is the only Samoan to get a non savage gimmick. And
that’s probably only because he’s half black. If they had something for
Joe he would have made the switch years ago.
Even though they aren’t in TNA, I think Benjamin and Haas would be perfect in TNA. Don’t know why they aren’t there now.
I
would love to see Angle get a proper run in WWE to end his career. But I
don’t know if he’s got his demons under control enough for that to
happen.
If Morgan is already WWE bound why do they keep showing that commercial of his on Impact?
ReplyDeleteummm imo Samoa Joe is one of the best workers around if he's motivated which he has been as of late.
ReplyDeleteI think he was talking about Justin Gabriel. He's still wrong though, Gabriel is extremely underrated.
ReplyDeleteIn the OG Summer of Punk in ROH Punk made mention in a worked-shoot-ish promo that a group of guys got together and were going to force TNA's hand to not bar them from working for both companies after the Rob Feinstein thing, and AJ was supposed to be the big ace in the hole for those guys because he was the biggest star. Then supposedly AJ waffled and went along with TNA's ban. I dunno how much of that is real and how much isn't but that's probably where it comes from.
ReplyDeleteTNA to WWE: Velvet Sky. She's still a middling worker but is easily the hottest woman in wrestling, and go figure that she works for the one company in the world besides SHIMMER where talent matters more in their women's division than looks. Presumably she'd still be what WWE is looking for right now because they just signed Sara Del Ray and Mercedes Martinez partially based on the idea that their Divas actually care about wrestling and won't just bolt to work on their modeling careers, and Velvet fits that description, plus is hotter than most of their models. Kind of a win all around.
ReplyDeleteWWE to TNA: Tyler Reks, Curt Hawkins, and Michael McGillicutty. All of these guys could stand to go to another company where they won't have enough star power to bank on their existing characters, so they can go and develop new characters and maybe learn something about connecting with the crowd. Worked out well for Elijah Burke.
That's some long-time heat. Thanks for the info.
ReplyDeleteI'd assume it's something that goes back to their ROH days.
ReplyDeleteJeff Hardy went to TNA the first time and came to back to WWE and had the best years of his career.
ReplyDeleteTNA-->WWE: I would agree with Matt Morgan. Prior to the beginning of the BFG series, I would have said Samoa Joe, but it looks like they have figured out a better plan for what to do with him. AJ Styles ain't happening, and Kurt Angle going back would probably be disastrous for him personally, so Matt Morgan looks like the best option.
ReplyDeleteWWE->TNA: PLENTY to choose from (Kofi Kingston, Zack Ryder, John Morrison, Rey Misterio, The Miz, Evan Bourne...hell even Tamina), but I would go with either Misterio or The Miz, simply because they would both have instant credibility, and though he has been jobbing endlessly the last few months, Miz is still over! Rey Jr. has taken the little man/giant killer thing about as far as he can in the WWE. Frankly ANY of the names on the list would be good pick-ups for TNA.