I wonder how concerned they really are. This is probably as low as they can possibly go and both sides will be satisfied even if this is the new fall/winter normal.
According to the dirtsheets Vince has been unhappy with the product recently. This rating could be the thing that lights a fire under their ass and stops the book-by-numbers storylines they've had recently (not counting the pretty fantastic tag team stuff).
So what does this say about the current state of the company. Do people really not watch when there's no John Cena? Are these people WWE really should be marketing to?
Also I hate giving that guy a page click when his content was 5 words and a number. Imagine if the real news had headlines like "A man was...." followed by the article "shot. Now he's dead."
We can bitch about Cena all we want but stuff like this is why RAW is the John Cena show. They pimped him out for so long that without him his fans simply don't watch.
I actually thought RAW was good last night also. Good JR/Punk promo, a couple of decent matches. I watched and wasn't bored which is the first time that's happened in the 3 hour era.
The three hour experiment needs to end. People are just getting burnt out and tuning out, and that's a real danger zone because if people start changing their viewing habits (say, turning Raw off at 10pm) then you run a real risk of losing them for good. Seriously, they shouldn't wait much longer. Cut that third hour STAT.
Aside from that, I think WWE has a real problem right now of just not having a strong protagonist. Who is the main reason to tune in every week? Punk? He's a villain, and on top of that he's not trying to accomplish anything all that dastardly. The nWo drew ratings as villains, among other reasons, because they had a massive clear goal. (Destroy the company from within.) Punk doesn't have that. In fact, NOBODY in WWE has a goal worth following.
Cena doesn't even seem to care about winning the WWE Title, and even if he did, he's done it so many times that audiences just don't give a shit to folow that journey. Wrestling is like any other entertainment: you need a main character that people want to see accomplish a goal. Who is the hero of WWE? What does he want?
I guess that's a long winded way of me saying that WWE desperately needs a popular face that fans want to watch every week. And John Cena, after a decade of doing the same ol' routine, sure as fuck is not it.
exactly, Cena's quest for the tittle means nothing to me cause with or without it he's the guy, so what is his goal, having something shiny to hold his pants up, for a company that tells stories, there don't seem to be a lot of stories
I don't know man, John Cena has been front and center every week previous to this and the ratings have kept trending downwards. They've trended downwards for YEARS now.
John Cena's fanbase is never going to grow again, it's only going to decrease. There's no higher level for John Cena, as a face at least. I mean, Cena won his first title at Wrestlemania 21. We're coming up on Mania 29. For comparison Hulk Hogan (who was 100x more over than John Cena has ever been) was wrestling his "retirement match" by Mania 8.
John Cena as the #1 hero on this show is the problem. Ratings can only decrease over time as long as it remains "The John Cena Show," they can't go higher, because like I said, there's no way his fanbase is ever increasing from this point on.
"I guess that's a long winded way of me saying that WWE desperately needs a popular face that fans want to watch every week. And John Cena, after a decade of doing the same ol' routine, sure as fuck is not it." Man, if only there wasn't a certain WWE Champion that they didn't turn heel...
It's kinda hard to convince people to sit around and watch a pointless three hour show. I can't think of a single thing that Raw accomplished outside of advancing the tag tournament. Punk still needs to be respected, AJ is still all crazy and stuff, Sheamus can still beat midcarders, Kane & Bryan are still bickering, Ryder is still king of the jobbers, etc.. Everyone knew these things before Raw, so I don't know why they assume people will tune in for three hours to go over all of these facts.
But hey, maybe what Raw needs is more 20 minute segments of AJ/Heyman/useless GM figure #243 reading notes about the board of directors and job evaluations. That's some must see TV right there.
I'd like to think that would change things, but it probably won't. If anything they'll hotshot the title change (ruining Punk's epic reign) because when the title changes on ppv that bumps up the Raw. Since they haven't swtiched one of the titles in the three-hour era, they could spend the hour hyping up the first appearance of the new champion (although the champs aren't "new", one would be a seven time champ, the other an 11-time champ) to build to the 9 o'clock hour.
Count me in on the burnt out folk. Even with the shitty MNF schedule this year, at least the games should be more competitive than the 15 squash matches on RAW every week.
I posted this in the Raw rant comments in response to someone asking how they are going to shake things up with the bad rating. Thought I'd rewrite here as how I see next weeks show going.
Vince comes out to start Raw and tells all the fans we're idiots and he knows what we really want to see. Out comes Cena who for the rest of the show cuts a brief promo on every superstar one at a time leading to a match. Cena proceeds to beat every superstar in less than a minute with his sling on. Punk comes out last and is the most competitive lasting a whole two minutes before Cena pins him for the title. Vince then comes back out and legit fires Punk. Show over.
They really did fuck themselves on that one. If only they had the balls to do the Cena heel turn the day after Mania (can the Brock-Cena stuff, and have Cena snap on Rock instead) and have Cena as the heel champ with Punk chasing him, I couldn't imagine the ratings wouldn't be significantly higher.
But now they're screwed: you can't turn Punk again, at least for another year or so. Cena has plateaued for sure as a top drawing face, and nobody else is anywhere near his level right now. Said as someone who does enjoy the shows overall, I do think they might be a bit fucked business-wise because of how they doubled down on lead-face-Cena.
To make a long point very short, because the football game actually matters. Whatever team comes out on top has better chances of making the playoffs, having home field advantage during the playoffs, etc.. No matter how minor the game or how crappy the teams playing are, at the end of the game something WILL be different. Even something as minor as owners considering making changes in the coaching staff or player roster makes for far better TV than Heyman standing around reading notes from some mysterious board of directors.
You have, in Jerry Lawler, a man who literally came back from the dead. Surely there's got to be something they can do with that that would draw interest going forward?
Plenty more could be said there. What competition did it face? What made this week different to other weeks? What is the percentage drop from last week? Any initial reactions from "sources"? Writing an article that just says 2.5 is lazy, unprofessional bullshit. If that's the only info they have, they shouldn't make it a separate article just to get more page views.
Get AJ out of the GM role, and put her back with Team Hell No. Make Lawler then new GM and keep the Michael Cole JBL/JR broadcast team. That alone should be enough to get them back to a 3.
Not for THREE hours on a Monday. I mean, I respect Jerry Lawler and all and am glad he's okay...but his story can't really do that much other than MAYBE a one night spike. And that does nothing to help the show in the long-run when their angles are so dull.
To make a long point very short, because the football game actually matters. Whatever team comes out on top has better chances of making the playoffs, having home field advantage during the playoffs, etc.. No matter how minor the game or how crappy the teams playing are, at the end of the game something WILL be different. Even something as minor as owners considering making changes in the coaching staff or player roster makes for far better TV than Heyman standing around reading notes from some mysterious board of directors.
And in addition to being burnt out on the product, which I agree with (largely due to Raw going 3 hours), but you have a 2 hour Smackdown, plus a Saturday morning show, plus a new Main Event show, so the company is also close to being overexposed if they aren't already.
That and a nice humilation segment where Cena is beaten to an inch of his life by the Big Show that leaves Cena humiliated and humbled and crawling to Punk for help (and Punk helping Cena and the establishing the new status quo of Cena being dogshit nad Punk being the Alpha male).
So, for example, what's the one hour worth of content that you would have dropped from the last show that would have made it a two hour show worth watching?
You know, if the WWE really wants to be looked at as that telling stories/soap opera thing, maybe they need to take a cue from how soap operas worked - they didn't have a problem filling 5 hours of content every week, but they also had several different stories that they were working through at any different time. Feels like WWE only has one or two.
That would lead to Punk vs. Brock, and that's good. But that would involve a heel-turning-on-heel face turn which would make Punk look weak, and that's bad.
Stop having so many long promos and storyline segments and structure the show basically like it used to be, only make the matches longer so that it fills out the extra time. People will dig it.
Last night's episode of Raw drew a 2.54 rating with 3.5 million viewers. That number is down 7% from last week's 2.72 and 3.785 million viewers and accounts for not only the lowest rating of the year, but the lowest viewership in over five years.
The show did hours of 3.44 million viewers for the first hour, 3.60 million for the second and 3.47 million for the third. The show ranked #3 on cable for the night behind Monday Night Football and Major Crimes. It was #2 in all key male demos behind MNF. and registered year-lows in males 12-34, males 18-49, males 18-34, adults 18-49, and adults 18-34.
He has been between 2-3 from the top unless programmed he was programmed with Cena.He has played second fiddle to Cena... to AJ... to Brock... to Rock... to HHH during his whole reign.
Thats not epic... thats pedestrian...
He has put on great matches. For the people who care about great matches fine and dandy, but outside of his length, whats been epic about his reign? Who has been elevated? Has the title been restored to former glory?
Cena has BURIED the title on TV. Case closed.
Again, Im not saying this out of being an asshole but Im hearing Punks long title reign and Im sying it hasnt been epic. its been long. Cenas 380 day reign was epic. Hogans 4 year reign was epic. Sammartino... Backlund...
But what Defines Punks title reign outside of its length.
If thats the case, then LonDricks tag title reign was epic...
I feel like I've given the 3 hour format enough of a chance. Last night's show was painfully slow and enough to make me throw in the towel on WWE TV for a while. Thank goodness for Impact and the NWA channel on YouTube.
Ric Flair returns in North Carolina and officially names Dolph Ziggler the "Nature Boy". He becomes the "JJ Dillion" and recruits Ryder(a new serious version), Cesaro and someone else and they beat down Sheamus, Cena and Punk with lead pipes
Vince comes back and reveals he is dating AJ and that's why she's in power which brings back Triple H and Steph to feud with them for control?
I dunno those are some easy angles to start the ratings upwards. But I think WWE is on complete hold untill the November elections. Pray the Democrat wins! Where do I make donations?
ALSO they need to stop letting their guys go off and make these shitty non-profitable movies when their is a serious lack of star power.
Like Orton is leaving, when Smackdown sorely needed him? I know they want to hold off on the Cena heel turn as long as possible which makes sense but their isn't much else going on.
Letting? They're all WWE-produced films...I would imagine one film per year is a supposed "perk" of being a sports entertainer in the vertically-integrated multimedia empire that is the WWE. I hope I'm wrong and you're right that the movie where Randy Orton goes to the papers if he has to or the one where HHH is on a bus were their choices.
I agree. Punk can still turn face, but he needs to proactively choose to do so. Maybe Brock comes in as Punk's muscle via Heyman, and at first Punk's all for it. He helps Punk retain against Cena at HIAC. But then Brock viciously beats down someone Punk cares about (Bryan? Kofi?). Heyman's yukking it up, the victim's begging for Punk's help, and Punk stands up to Brock.
You're right. The matches with Ziggler, Bryan and Jericho were awesome(epic is overused, very few things are epic) but the overall tone of the run has not been good. He really hasn't been 'given the ball', because Cena still has 'the ball' therefore Punk can't run with it.
Not to mention they hotshotted the belt to Del Rio via Nash > Cena > Del Rio > Back to Punk which got nothing accomplished except Triple H a few PPV wins.
Ok so forcing, allowing? What's the right word. Basically WWE is in a trench with their main source of income, wrestling yet they have such a big hard on to be Warner Brothers that they let their top draws go make movies when they need to be putting together angle to drum up some real buyrates(since they canceled their for sure big seller in the Attitude Era dvd)
They actually had a story like that on Yahoo News about a month ago. The title was something like "A Dolphin swims'...and that was the entire article. Had a picture of a dolphin, no text. And no, it was not written by Chris Chase...
But the movies are another source of income. And you never know...it might turn into a blockbuster that gets a full theater release and earns $50 million for WWE shareholders.
Maybe people did turn the show off with no Cena, but that's just shows how dumb this company is for not building a new star for a rainy day. You put all your chips on John Cena, you lose with John Cena.
Next week's "Will they or won't they?" story with Tim Tebow on the sidelines while Mark Sanchez goes 4 for 18 with 2 picks sounds like a pretty compelling story to me!
It staggers me that there's a 3-hour show on Mondays, a 2-hour show on Fridays, another hour coming with the new Ion show, and they still don't get the hint that people might be burned out on the product.
Did Cena really hold the title that long during his longest reign? I've heard it from a few places but I swear I thought it was just under a year (340 days or something) and he relinquished it due to injury at that point. But I could definitely be wrong.
Pretty sure we've been getting twenty minute opening segments since the Attitude era. Glad you guys are just now getting around to complaining about it.
There's a huge different between guys like Rock, Austin, Triple H, and McMahon doing it compared to guys like AJ, current McMahon, Vickie, and Paul Heyman.
I know that WWE has already done the absurd before and had a video package about video packages, but I was "astounded yet not" that they actually gave us a video recap of the reveal of Team Hell No's name.
in all seriousness.. Gorilla Monsoon circa 85-86 would do a lot to get this roster over.. plus he could teach guys how to hook an Abdominal Stretch correctly..
Or we could do it the easy way: Punk beats Cena clean, Cena gets on the mic and tells him he respects him, him & Cena shake hands, Brock comes out and lays Punk out, Heyman leaves with Brock. Everybody wins.
The Bears and Cowboys are two iconic teams with two volatile quarterbacks--I'm sure their game played a part in the ratings drop.
The only thing I'd panic about is the length of the interview segments and the lack of individual character development (the creative staff always seems so afraid of taking the next step with a character or angle after they stumble upon something that works). Otherwise, it's still a strong 2 hour show in a 3 hour timeslot.
That's way too beautiful, I was shooting for the realm of possibility. Which I suppose is foolish in FANTASY booking anyway. But yeah, obviously this scenario would be perfect.
This company needs a shot in the arm like no one's business. They need to get behind someone and push them to the moon so they can create a new star. They are so afraid to really push someone that you end up with a roster full of guys with no direction ergo the fans have no one to get behind.
I worry, it's because Cena wasn't on the show... this can only mean one thing... MORE CENA. Raw was unwatchable live, 3hrs is just wayyyyy to long, however condensed down into 2hrs it would of been a stellar show. I called by the end of the year they would revert back to 2hrs due to the awful ratings, it's no surprise it is going that way.
Raw has become so unwatchable at this point, I pretty much tune in for maybe 5 minutes, hate what I see and switch back to HIMYM, MNF, etc. I'm down to watching just Impact to get my wrestling fix now, and considering it took me about 3 years to start watching TNA, that doesn't bode well for WWE
At this point I'm rooting for the ratings to drop and drop some more. As long as they're happy with the bottom line they won't change anything, and I know it's probably become the typical internet fan thing to complain about, but it annoys me that they pretty much decided that we're not allowed to like CM Punk. Not just because it's Punk, who I actually wasn't a fan of until last summer, but because of the message they're sending - you'll like who we want you to like and that's it.
So, fuck em. Ratings are down, buyrates are down, but they still keep telling us that we'll watch what they want us to watch. Well, maybe not.
They really picked the worst time to go to 3 hours. The product is boring, and it seems like nothing happens on a regular 2 hour show. In the grand scheme of things does what happens from the start of Raw to the finish ever really matter? It's the same shit the next week. Maybe if it was the Attitude Era and things happened they could make a 3 hour show worth paying attention to but I just can't sit through 3 hours knowing it's not going anywhere.
Actually I pointed out in the RAW rant that Cena has been in the lowest rated segments for the past month so that pretty much kills the theory that Cena is a ratings draw.
I've been saying the same thing for months, I say they strap the rocket to Bryan, he's already over as hell, so most of the work is already done. I think they need to call up a few guys from FCW too, just for some fresh blood. Think about it, who was the last wrestler to debut? Tensai? And he used to work for the company, so he really doesn't count.
I watch Revolution on Mondays and flip to Monday Night Football during commercials. I hope this is the long-awaited wake-up call WWE needs to make a major shakeup in booking. This company has Paul Heyman under contract. If they gave him a chance, he could be their Bruce Pritchard and turn that company around.
Of course, we all know that isn't going to happen. WWE is going to blame the absence of John Cena for the poor ratings and give him the title as soon as he comes back at the expense of CM Punk. If that is WWE's reaction, I hope it doesn't help them and TNA starts drawing ratings that are at least competitive with Smackdown (by the way, Smackdown's ratings are also in free fall, so it isn't just Cena's absence). I don't want WWE's ratings to fall enough for them to be dropped by NBC Universal or for the company to go bankrupt, but I want their ratings to fall enough for them to get a wake-up call and finally change their booking to something that I'm actually interested in watching.
They matter in the sense that less eyeballs on your main show (and by extension, probably your other shows) theoretically equals less people interested in your brand, so less house show attendance, less ppvs, less merch sales, etc, etc.
Maybe the actual rating doesn't matter on the overall economy of the company, but it probably means the company won't do well overall and in the future if it keeps dropping.
There is zero chance Heyman would work under Stephanie McMahon in a booking capacity again.
In my opinion, she's been the biggest problem with this company for years. She gets a pass for obvious reasons, but I swear, if her last name was not McMahon, Vince would've fired her a long time ago.
Yet another week where not only the third hour is soft, but the first as well. Not a good trend at all, I think it shows the show is becoming something fans watch when nothing else is on. It isn't building momentum as the show goes on.
MNF was certainly hurting some during the MNW era which helped things, but wrestling still compared very favorably with college football, which was quite hot at the the time.
Demographically, they seem to be hanging in there on some key indicators, but if those slip more they could be in trouble. It'd be one thing if he drop was just isolated for one hour, but the extra hour seems to be too much for the creative team to fill with material that doesn't turn fans off.
I think that for those inclined to apologize for WWE, and parrot their spin, the disapproving narrative over Punk's heel turn has been reduced to either being a huge mark for Punk, or an irrationally contrarian super-smark; neither of which is true in my estimation.
What is at issue is what Punk's heel turn is symptomatic of: WWE's complete and utter contempt for their audience. And there's no plausible way to either argue that's not the case, or to justify it. It's objectively clear this is the case, and it is a catastrophic problem. It doesn't matter what the entertainment medium is, the producers having complete and utter contempt for their audience is a creatively and economically bankrupt way to operate an enterprise; and the evidence is on display every Monday night, both in the aesthetic quality of the product and the ever-declining ratings. When decisions like Punk's heel turn are viewed through that prism, they're completely indefensible, short of advocating for masochism.
I think I've argued this case so well, that there's no possible way I can continue to watch the product under the circumstances.
Who knows, perhaps this is just a temporary blip -- an outlier and things will be back to normal next week.
Or maybe our so called "male soap opera" is starting down the same path that traditional soap operas started down 10 or 12 years ago. Time sort of passed the genre by, via a slow but steady erosion of the core audience, year after year. With soaps, I think the demos skewed older and older over time, destroying the generational passing down of the show that seemed to help it flourish.
So are DC Comics' sales thanks to "The New 52" stunt, but no one with half a brain believes that's sustainable. Anymore than bringing back Rock and Brock is for WWE buyrates. But I suppose I should excuse you from those with at least half a brain, given your always astute comments.
Let's be clear that a good segment (that gave some top players something to do on the show) featuring; CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Kane, AJ, Vickie Guerrero, Dolph Ziggler, and Paul Heyman is being hated on.
For me it's a combination: the irony of just how horrific they actually are at telling stories, and how it applies to virtually everything on the show. I mean, they are so inept at telling stories, that the idea that's what they're going for is just endlessly amusing. You could grab virtually any wannabee-Robert Towne from a Robert McKee seminar--rigidly adhering to the most monotonous, pedantic storytelling--and it would seem like fucking Charlie Kaufman compared to the shit they turn out.
Well even with the PPV category, though I admit I haven't looked at the last couple of shows aside from Summer Slam, I believe they are just barely over last years figures YTD. We'll know more once the final #s come in of course.
It'll be very interesting to see how buyrates go with the RAW rating dropping in what is traditionally the weakest period for PPV all year (September through December). I'm not sure if it is statistically possible, but if they perform especially poorly they could come out below last years average. Even if they finish marginally ahead of last year (maybe 1 to 2%) that's nothing to celebrate -- last year was one of the worst years for them since 2003. For a comparison, UFC had the worse or 2nd worst year on PPV in 7 years this year, but they had a median # of buys more than twice the WWEs.
Another thing to consider is that the WWE continues to expand the number of markets with PPV access internationally, but the number of buys is not increasing notably. Effectively they have a smaller piece of an expanding pie.
Look at you with your cute comic book comparison and your put-down of part-time wrestlers. Fact remains, buyrates are up from last year. DC's sales are up because some of the "New 52" are actually...gasp...good.
I'm glad you're trying to take the higher road with your quasi-intellectual façade, but please, step off.
Yeah, Scott even pointed that one out YEARS ago in one of his books- essentially, the key problems are writing at the TOP of the company- a new inventive writer would be a great benefit over the failed sitcom writer Gewirtz, and the AWFUL Stephanie McMahon (who thankfully doesn't actively try to get over at the expense of the talent anymore).
Also, although I don't think it is a fair comparison, given that cable ratings have changed so much -- but to throw a little gasoline on the fire, if you consider the whole run of MNR and pull out the contested weeks with Nitro -- in other words, if you choose the weeks in MNR history where it had no wrestling competition, in terms of rating points (though not viewers, as there are more cable households per ratings point today since more homes have cable) this is the worst rated RAW since April 3rd, 1993, when Raw scored a 2.4 rating up against the NCAA Finals.
Maybe Revolution is luring away Raw fans. It's more than your average weekly drama. Hell, there's a sword fight every fifteen minutes. Bullets fly. 'Splosions. It's good entertainment, something Raw's been lacking lately.
Seriously, if you haven't seen Revolution yet, give the pilot a try. It's directed by the fellow who did Swingers and Iron Man.
I don't mind guys leaving to shoot movies since it gives them a couple of months off to rest, recuperate and in most cases freshen up the act a little bit. Of course, no amount of time off could freshen up Orton, who I would gladly never see again
Wrestling might die out, but wrestling fans won't. Once wrestling comes back on Monday nights, so will the fans. Vince killed half his audience when he decided the make Raw an entertainment/variety/whatever they're calling it this week show that just happened to feature wrestling. But that's not what wrestling fans want, so they tune out.
And for some strange reason, Vince thinks he can replace the wrestling fan with the casual tv viewer. The problem is that the entertainment stuff they do to rope those people in is so god awful they won't watch. And even if they were doing a good job of it, nobody in the mainstream media covers it, so these people will never hear about it. Every new show the networks regurgitate every year gets a ton of pub from bloggers, critics, and print media. How is someone supposed to find out about Raw outside of the very small WWE "Universe"?
BuckDiddy, if you hate the general consensus of this blog, then why are you here? And didn't Scott ban you awhile back, how did you end up back here anyway?
What goes around, comes around. If you built your main show around guys who are active only once a year, you can't expect the viewers to get behind the minor guys.
I would now make a big stable around CM Punk and Paul Heyman with new guys and known guys like Cesaro, Barrett, Sandow, Brock Lesnar, Ziggler or so. You have to make them so mean, that the audience is begging that John Cena wears black and white facepaint and coming down from under the roof with a baseball bat...*g*
Ratings do affect the company's "economy" since they drive how much USA can charge advertisers, as well as which companies will advertise on the show. Does WWE sttill get a portion of ad revenue? And the higher the rating the more clout they have when negotiating with TV networks.
It was a stupid segment. Hey guys come out and argue for 20 minutes so GM comes out and makes wacky tag team main event. That crap gets old after 5 years no matter how talented the people are.
And AJ is still awful as GM, no matter if she says 3 lines or 30.
to be fair: I will not only mean MORE CENA. but also: more Triple H and other guys that are part timers but are considered "draws". and maybe more celebrities or something like that.
First of all, this is a down time of year generally. Nothing notable has taken place in the fall, maybe ever, other than a few big occurrences at Survivor Series. WWE should treat this time of year as a time to experiment leading into the Rumble.
Secondly, the lack of star power is really hurting things. There is one household name in WWE right now, and he can't be on screen for 3 hours once a week. Especially, when he's injured right now. They have obviously done a poor job in creating stars that casual fans want to watch weekly, and it's showing.
Third, the 3 hour thing is killing the ratings. It's just too long. People will flip to see if their guy is on and if not, it's back to football. Not many people can watch a 3 hour show on a weekly basis. Are there any other 3 hour shows, other than sporting events? Sports get ratings because it is one singular event that lasts for that long. A WWE show is 15 consecutive segments, or events, running over a 3 hour time. It doesn't work for any other scripted genre and it won't work for WWE.
At the very least, if they wanted to experiment with 3 hours, do it between the Rumble and WM, when it's the peak of the WWE year and there's no Monday Night Football. Starting in July was just a bad idea.
Very true. If they are content with popping one massive buyrate at the expense of the remainder of the year's product, this is what they get. Part-timers are great for that, but the rest of the roster can't maintain that level
Somebody probably made this point (thread is too long for me to read the whole thing), but this probably means more Vince cause he actually *does* move the needle. I wish it wasn't so but he's up there with Rock and Brock as the only guys shown to bring the ratings up (not by a lot but still up) by themselves.
I'd tend to agree, just because if anything history seems to show that is the case. It does sort of make you wonder how long they can go on pushing this concept of 'wrestling' before a whole generation of people passes through it though and has no concept of anything different though.
Pointing out the flaws of the blog and generally calling stupid ideas stupid is trolling? If that's the case I guess John Stewart should stop commenting on Fox News (not comparing y'all to Fox News, but some do tread pretty closely).
It's not trolling. People come in WWE related threads just to shit on WWE, even if they don't watch a whole episode or don't watch at all. I don't go into TNA threads unless I've watched that episode. Showing that same respect would help this community grow rather than stagnate the topics.
It is trolling, just re-read your comments. BTW, you're guessing folks didn't watch the show, that's your assumption.
Also, it's ok to comment on just a part of the episode. If I watch a promo with Cena and Punk and think Cena shit all over him, I can totally comment on that portion of the show. You don't need to see the whole thing.
I really don't think that it is though. It seems like they're scrambling to fill time when they don't need to be. Cesaro vs. Brodus was about a minute long, and most of the rest of those shorter matches were a similar length. They did the same thing on a 2 hour show, and instead they had long gimmick segments that just reiterated the same points. You can still have the long opening promo, couple undercard matches, big build to the mid-show match, more storyline stuff and some other matches, and the main event match/promo/whatever. Just make all those undercard matches REAL matches, that last a few minutes longer. Most of the talent they have right now are capable of doing it, and those that aren't would stand to learn. They really didn't have a bad formula down with the 2 hour pacing, they should just stick to it.
Yes, you don't need to see the whole thing, but if you only watched a certain segment don't throw blanket statements around about the whole show.
And people have commented in the past, "Oh man I did not watch this week but from reading your recap I can tell that Cena was awful OMGTURNHIMHEELNOWPLZNTHX".
I think at least a small part of the issue has to be that the show is so formulaic. I mean, when's the last time something monumental happened at 8:43 PM? If people don't want to commit to the entire 3 hour show, they know that they just need to check at the top of the hour. And when your show is running late (like it was this week) and something less-than-thrilling is on when people are stopping in....they're probably not going to stick around. They need to train people to believe that they can't miss a second of the show....that something could happen partway through the second hour. Right now they don't have that.
I feel like the only person who can't stand her on "The Newsroom". It could be residue from her annoying faux-nerd schtick on AOTS and being the least funniest correspondent The Daily Show ever had, but every time I watch her, I feel like she's being outclassed by everyone. Everyone else is acting and she's "acting". I wish that she would written out of the show already so I can enjoy 100% of the show and not just the 85% when she's not on it. Reminds me of Katie Holmes's terrible performance in Batman Begins, where she stuck out in a top-to-bottom killer cast that she was over her head with.
MOAR AJ
ReplyDeleteI wonder how concerned they really are. This is probably as low as they can possibly go and both sides will be satisfied even if this is the new fall/winter normal.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the dirtsheets Vince has been unhappy with the product recently. This rating could be the thing that lights a fire under their ass and stops the book-by-numbers storylines they've had recently (not counting the pretty fantastic tag team stuff).
ReplyDeleteSo what does this say about the current state of the company. Do people really not watch when there's no John Cena? Are these people WWE really should be marketing to?
ReplyDeleteAlso I hate giving that guy a page click when his content was 5 words and a number. Imagine if the real news had headlines like "A man was...." followed by the article "shot. Now he's dead."
ReplyDeletemeh
ReplyDeleteWe can bitch about Cena all we want but stuff like this is why RAW is the John Cena show. They pimped him out for so long that without him his fans simply don't watch.
ReplyDeleteI actually thought RAW was good last night also. Good JR/Punk promo, a couple of decent matches. I watched and wasn't bored which is the first time that's happened in the 3 hour era.
The three hour experiment needs to end. People are just getting burnt out and tuning out, and that's a real danger zone because if people start changing their viewing habits (say, turning Raw off at 10pm) then you run a real risk of losing them for good. Seriously, they shouldn't wait much longer. Cut that third hour STAT.
ReplyDeleteAside from that, I think WWE has a real problem right now of just not having a strong protagonist. Who is the main reason to tune in every week? Punk? He's a villain, and on top of that he's not trying to accomplish anything all that dastardly. The nWo drew ratings as villains, among other reasons, because they had a massive clear goal. (Destroy the company from within.) Punk doesn't have that. In fact, NOBODY in WWE has a goal worth following.
Cena doesn't even seem to care about winning the WWE Title, and even if he did, he's done it so many times that audiences just don't give a shit to folow that journey. Wrestling is like any other entertainment: you need a main character that people want to see accomplish a goal. Who is the hero of WWE? What does he want?
I guess that's a long winded way of me saying that WWE desperately needs a popular face that fans want to watch every week. And John Cena, after a decade of doing the same ol' routine, sure as fuck is not it.
Hire Russo!
ReplyDeleteexactly, Cena's quest for the tittle means nothing to me cause with or without it he's the guy, so what is his goal, having something shiny to hold his pants up, for a company that tells stories, there don't seem to be a lot of stories
ReplyDeletePeople will watch a three hour football game, why won't they watch a three hour wrestling show?
ReplyDeleteHELL, I will watch football from 11am until 11pm.
HELL HELL, on Saturday mornings I would watch Superstars, Challenge, WCW, and some random WWF show, then two hours of Saturday night.
Why CAN'T the WWF make three hours worthwhile?
Really? What more analysis could you want? And I mean, it's not like you have to pay for a membership to get the rating like Wrestling Observer.
ReplyDeleteI don't know man, John Cena has been front and center every week previous to this and the ratings have kept trending downwards. They've trended downwards for YEARS now.
ReplyDeleteJohn Cena's fanbase is never going to grow again, it's only going to decrease. There's no higher level for John Cena, as a face at least. I mean, Cena won his first title at Wrestlemania 21. We're coming up on Mania 29. For comparison Hulk Hogan (who was 100x more over than John Cena has ever been) was wrestling his "retirement match" by Mania 8.
John Cena as the #1 hero on this show is the problem. Ratings can only decrease over time as long as it remains "The John Cena Show," they can't go higher, because like I said, there's no way his fanbase is ever increasing from this point on.
"I guess that's a long winded way of me saying that WWE desperately needs a popular face that fans want to watch every week. And John Cena, after a decade of doing the same ol' routine, sure as fuck is not it."
ReplyDeleteMan, if only there wasn't a certain WWE Champion that they didn't turn heel...
Here's why: Monday Night Football doesn't have a 20 minute pointless opening promo or skit to establish that the first quarter is going to happen.
ReplyDeleteFunny enough, the replacement referee debacle in the NFL was probably a better "angle/storyline" than anything WWE has done in years.
It's kinda hard to convince people to sit around and watch a pointless three hour show. I can't think of a single thing that Raw accomplished outside of advancing the tag tournament. Punk still needs to be respected, AJ is still all crazy and stuff, Sheamus can still beat midcarders, Kane & Bryan are still bickering, Ryder is still king of the jobbers, etc.. Everyone knew these things before Raw, so I don't know why they assume people will tune in for three hours to go over all of these facts.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, maybe what Raw needs is more 20 minute segments of AJ/Heyman/useless GM figure #243 reading notes about the board of directors and job evaluations. That's some must see TV right there.
I'd like to think that would change things, but it probably won't. If anything they'll hotshot the title change (ruining Punk's epic reign) because when the title changes on ppv that bumps up the Raw. Since they haven't swtiched one of the titles in the three-hour era, they could spend the hour hyping up the first appearance of the new champion (although the champs aren't "new", one would be a seven time champ, the other an 11-time champ) to build to the 9 o'clock hour.
ReplyDeleteCount me in on the burnt out folk. Even with the shitty MNF schedule this year, at least the games should be more competitive than the 15 squash matches on RAW every week.
ReplyDeleteI posted this in the Raw rant comments in response to someone asking how they are going to shake things up with the bad rating. Thought I'd rewrite here as how I see next weeks show going.
ReplyDeleteVince comes out to start Raw and tells all the fans we're idiots and he knows what we really want to see. Out comes Cena who for the rest of the show cuts a brief promo on every superstar one at a time leading to a match. Cena proceeds to beat every superstar in less than a minute with his sling on. Punk comes out last and is the most competitive lasting a whole two minutes before Cena pins him for the title. Vince then comes back out and legit fires Punk. Show over.
*cue Rocky montage of Vince pumping iron*
ReplyDeleteThey really did fuck themselves on that one.
ReplyDeleteIf only they had the balls to do the Cena heel turn the day after Mania (can the Brock-Cena stuff, and have Cena snap on Rock instead) and have Cena as the heel champ with Punk chasing him, I couldn't imagine the ratings wouldn't be significantly higher.
But now they're screwed: you can't turn Punk again, at least for another year or so. Cena has plateaued for sure as a top drawing face, and nobody else is anywhere near his level right now. Said as someone who does enjoy the shows overall, I do think they might be a bit fucked business-wise because of how they doubled down on lead-face-Cena.
To make a long point very short, because the football game actually matters. Whatever team comes out on top has better chances of making the playoffs, having home field advantage during the playoffs, etc.. No matter how minor the game or how crappy the teams playing are, at the end of the game something WILL be different. Even something as minor as owners considering making changes in the coaching staff or player roster makes for far better TV than Heyman standing around reading notes from some mysterious board of directors.
ReplyDeleteThe pregame show is a 90-minute skit at this point.
ReplyDeleteBecause pandas rolling around for three hours aren't enough to keep anyone's attention that long?
ReplyDeleteI would have considered Punk a lock to carry the belt until Royal Rumble but now I think it's 50/50 that they put the title on Cena at HIAC.
ReplyDeleteYou have, in Jerry Lawler, a man who literally came back from the dead. Surely there's got to be something they can do with that that would draw interest going forward?
ReplyDeletePlenty more could be said there. What competition did it face? What made this week different to other weeks? What is the percentage drop from last week? Any initial reactions from "sources"? Writing an article that just says 2.5 is lazy, unprofessional bullshit. If that's the only info they have, they shouldn't make it a separate article just to get more page views.
ReplyDeleteGet AJ out of the GM role, and put her back with Team Hell No. Make Lawler then new GM and keep the Michael Cole JBL/JR broadcast team. That alone should be enough to get them back to a 3.
ReplyDeleteHire Cornette! Hire Pritchard! Hire Patterson! Hire Watts! Hold a seance with Vinnie Sr., Toots Mondt, and Gorilla Monsoon!
ReplyDeleteThere's a reason I have stopped watching RAW.
ReplyDeleteI usually DVR RAW but last night I didn't and instead DVR'ed the MNF game.
It's such a chore to sit through now and IMPACT is much better.
If they start booking it like a WRESTLING SHOW instead of a SOAP OPERA SHOW. Then I'll watch it again.
For now I'll stick with IMPACT and my collection of WWF and WCW stuff from the past.
Yeah but they are telling stories.
ReplyDeleteNot for THREE hours on a Monday. I mean, I respect Jerry Lawler and all and am glad he's okay...but his story can't really do that much other than MAYBE a one night spike. And that does nothing to help the show in the long-run when their angles are so dull.
ReplyDeleteTo make a long point very short, because the football game actually matters. Whatever team comes out on top has better chances of making the playoffs, having home field advantage during the playoffs, etc.. No matter how minor the game or how crappy the teams playing are, at the end of the game something WILL be different. Even something as minor as owners considering making changes in the coaching staff or player roster makes for far better TV than Heyman standing around reading notes from some mysterious board of directors.
ReplyDeleteKill the brand extention. Give paul e the book and turn cena heel.
ReplyDeleteWow, and again, I'm not surprised at all with the dropping ratings.
ReplyDeleteI'm sticking with my CLASSIC WWF stuff too (and the WCW stuff I have as well).
ReplyDeleteOr it just means Cena wins the title at HIAC.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but WWF could easily fix that by signing Kung Fu Panda.
ReplyDeleteHe could be like their Hulk Hogan!
I wonder how he got the name "Toots". I hope it wasn't to do with flatulence.
ReplyDeleteThe best thing about the 3 hour RAW is that commercial they did promoting it.
ReplyDeleteYup. Putting the world title on Cena and then having him feud with Tensai or whoever won't do dick for the ratings.
ReplyDeleteVince blames Josh Matthews.
ReplyDeleteAnd in addition to being burnt out on the product, which I agree with (largely due to Raw going 3 hours), but you have a 2 hour Smackdown, plus a Saturday morning show, plus a new Main Event show, so the company is also close to being overexposed if they aren't already.
ReplyDeleteDrop the show back to 2 hours.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's the sort of thing you pay for in the newsletter.
ReplyDeleteLawler as GM is a FANTASTIC idea.
ReplyDeleteThat and a nice humilation segment where Cena is beaten to an inch of his life by the Big Show that leaves Cena humiliated and humbled and crawling to Punk for help (and Punk helping Cena and the establishing the new status quo of Cena being dogshit nad Punk being the Alpha male).
ReplyDeleteIt never gets old. (Seriously.)
ReplyDeleteIt seems like the best option at the moment.
ReplyDeleteBut are they telling stories?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. I'll take the classic material over what we get now ANY DAY.
ReplyDeleteThey can turn Punk back, just have Heyman screw him out of the title for Brock.
ReplyDeleteThis guy gets it.
ReplyDeleteYou left out the part about AJ getting put through a flaming table. How can we get Baked without some superfluous misoginism?
ReplyDeleteSo, for example, what's the one hour worth of content that you would have dropped from the last show that would have made it a two hour show worth watching?
ReplyDeleteYou know, if the WWE really wants to be looked at as that telling stories/soap opera thing, maybe they need to take a cue from how soap operas worked - they didn't have a problem filling 5 hours of content every week, but they also had several different stories that they were working through at any different time. Feels like WWE only has one or two.
ReplyDeleteGotta say that I've not sat through a single 3 hour episode myself. It's just too slow and boring.
ReplyDelete#baked
ReplyDeleteThat would lead to Punk vs. Brock, and that's good. But that would involve a heel-turning-on-heel face turn which would make Punk look weak, and that's bad.
ReplyDeleteThe Lawlertaker! Have him do a Goth gimmick, hell, he already used to shoot fireballs at people. The King of Darkness! I love it.
ReplyDeleteStop having so many long promos and storyline segments and structure the show basically like it used to be, only make the matches longer so that it fills out the extra time. People will dig it.
ReplyDeleteLast night's episode of Raw drew a 2.54 rating with 3.5 million viewers. That number is down 7% from last week's 2.72 and 3.785 million viewers and accounts for not only the lowest rating of the year, but the lowest viewership in over five years.
ReplyDeleteThe show did hours of 3.44 million viewers for the first hour, 3.60 million for the second and 3.47 million for the third. The show ranked #3 on cable for the night behind Monday Night Football and Major Crimes. It was #2 in all key male demos behind MNF. and registered year-lows in males 12-34, males 18-49, males 18-34, adults 18-49, and adults 18-34.
Credit: PW Torch
Uh, brand extension has been dead for a year or two now.
ReplyDeleteSo, wait, you can't DVR multiple things?
ReplyDeleteWhats so epic about Punks reign?
ReplyDeleteand I am saying this without an ounce of sarcasm.
He has been between 2-3 from the top unless programmed he was programmed with Cena.He has played second fiddle to Cena... to AJ... to Brock... to Rock... to HHH during his whole reign.
Thats not epic... thats pedestrian...
He has put on great matches. For the people who care about great matches fine and dandy, but outside of his length, whats been epic about his reign? Who has been elevated? Has the title been restored to former glory?
Cena has BURIED the title on TV. Case closed.
Again, Im not saying this out of being an asshole but Im hearing Punks long title reign and Im sying it hasnt been epic. its been long. Cenas 380 day reign was epic. Hogans 4 year reign was epic. Sammartino... Backlund...
But what Defines Punks title reign outside of its length.
If thats the case, then LonDricks tag title reign was epic...
I feel like I've given the 3 hour format enough of a chance. Last night's show was painfully slow and enough to make me throw in the towel on WWE TV for a while. Thank goodness for Impact and the NWA channel on YouTube.
ReplyDeletePlease watch Russo's Kayfabe Commentaries on re-booking the Invasion and you'll see why WWE books their shows the way they do.
ReplyDeleteThey apparently expected the rating to be quite low.
ReplyDeleteRic Flair returns in North Carolina and officially names Dolph Ziggler the "Nature Boy". He becomes the "JJ Dillion" and recruits Ryder(a new serious version), Cesaro and someone else and they beat down Sheamus, Cena and Punk with lead pipes
ReplyDeleteVince comes back and reveals he is dating AJ and that's why she's in power which brings back Triple H and Steph to feud with them for control?
I dunno those are some easy angles to start the ratings upwards. But I think WWE is on complete hold untill the November elections. Pray the Democrat wins! Where do I make donations?
ALSO they need to stop letting their guys go off and make these shitty non-profitable movies when their is a serious lack of star power.
ReplyDeleteLike Orton is leaving, when Smackdown sorely needed him? I know they want to hold off on the Cena heel turn as long as possible which makes sense but their isn't much else going on.
Don't point out anything wrong here! You'll get Soviet Union'd.
ReplyDeleteI like everyone assuming CM Punk is fighting Cena yet there isn't an official match, Cena is injured, and CM Punk hasn't agreed to fight him.
ReplyDeleteLetting? They're all WWE-produced films...I would imagine one film per year is a supposed "perk" of being a sports entertainer in the vertically-integrated multimedia empire that is the WWE. I hope I'm wrong and you're right that the movie where Randy Orton goes to the papers if he has to or the one where HHH is on a bus were their choices.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Punk can still turn face, but he needs to proactively choose to do so. Maybe Brock comes in as Punk's muscle via Heyman, and at first Punk's all for it. He helps Punk retain against Cena at HIAC. But then Brock viciously beats down someone Punk cares about (Bryan? Kofi?). Heyman's yukking it up, the victim's begging for Punk's help, and Punk stands up to Brock.
ReplyDeleteHow many years later and I still slip and call it WWF?
ReplyDeleteI think Punk is good enough on the mic to make it work without damaging himself too much.
ReplyDeleteI dont know about him, but i can only record things going on at the same time. Can't even change the channel.
ReplyDeleteEspecially the promos. I don't mind a guy coming out and trying to get him over or whatever, but it doesn't need to take TWENTY MINUTES.
ReplyDeleteYou're right. The matches with Ziggler, Bryan and Jericho were awesome(epic is overused, very few things are epic) but the overall tone of the run has not been good. He really hasn't been 'given the ball', because Cena still has 'the ball' therefore Punk can't run with it.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention they hotshotted the belt to Del Rio via Nash > Cena > Del Rio > Back to Punk which got nothing accomplished except Triple H a few PPV wins.
Ok so forcing, allowing? What's the right word. Basically WWE is in a trench with their main source of income, wrestling yet they have such a big hard on to be Warner Brothers that they let their top draws go make movies when they need to be putting together angle to drum up some real buyrates(since they canceled their for sure big seller in the Attitude Era dvd)
ReplyDeleteThey actually had a story like that on Yahoo News about a month ago. The title was something like "A Dolphin swims'...and that was the entire article. Had a picture of a dolphin, no text. And no, it was not written by Chris Chase...
ReplyDeleteBut the movies are another source of income. And you never know...it might turn into a blockbuster that gets a full theater release and earns $50 million for WWE shareholders.
ReplyDeleteMaybe people did turn the show off with no Cena, but that's just shows how dumb this company is for not building a new star for a rainy day. You put all your chips on John Cena, you lose with John Cena.
ReplyDeleteNext week's "Will they or won't they?" story with Tim Tebow on the sidelines while Mark Sanchez goes 4 for 18 with 2 picks sounds like a pretty compelling story to me!
ReplyDeleteWhich begs the question of why they even bother with two world champions?
ReplyDeleteIt staggers me that there's a 3-hour show on Mondays, a 2-hour show on Fridays, another hour coming with the new Ion show, and they still don't get the hint that people might be burned out on the product.
ReplyDeleteDid Cena really hold the title that long during his longest reign? I've heard it from a few places but I swear I thought it was just under a year (340 days or something) and he relinquished it due to injury at that point. But I could definitely be wrong.
ReplyDeletePretty sure we've been getting twenty minute opening segments since the Attitude era. Glad you guys are just now getting around to complaining about it.
ReplyDeleteMerchandise sales.
ReplyDeleteYou'd think technology would be better than that.
ReplyDeleteCan record two things at one time. Can only change between what I am recording.
ReplyDeleteMeh.
Don't forget the half-hour on Saturday, the NXT show, the YouTube shows, Superstars for international audiences, and house shows.
ReplyDeleteRadical Sugestions:
ReplyDelete- Bring Vince Russo back
- Sell WCW brand back to Ted Turner or Eric Bischoff
- Give Paul Heyman, Jim Ross, Kevin Nash or Ric Flair full creative control.
- Force Stephanie to take a non creative role. (Linda's old job for example)
- Pay Steve Austin like 10 milli to come back.
- fire Gewertz
Do ratings even matter?
ReplyDeleteThere's a huge different between guys like Rock, Austin, Triple H, and McMahon doing it compared to guys like AJ, current McMahon, Vickie, and Paul Heyman.
ReplyDeletePlus the recap shows
ReplyDeleteAll the recaps and dead space. There's plenty of dead space.
ReplyDeletePffft come on
ReplyDeleteThey make movies!
ReplyDeleteSo the Niners are Cena?
ReplyDeleteit's true.. every game is 1/16th of your season.. EVERYTHING matters..
ReplyDeletePablo Sandoval?
ReplyDeleteI know that WWE has already done the absurd before and had a video package about video packages, but I was "astounded yet not" that they actually gave us a video recap of the reveal of Team Hell No's name.
ReplyDeletein all seriousness.. Gorilla Monsoon circa 85-86 would do a lot to get this roster over.. plus he could teach guys how to hook an Abdominal Stretch correctly..
ReplyDeleteAJ said like...three lines. "Paul Heyman is greasy. I'm on probation. Tag-team main-event."
ReplyDeleteShe's not really the problem.
Or we could do it the easy way: Punk beats Cena clean, Cena gets on the mic and tells him he respects him, him & Cena shake hands, Brock comes out and lays Punk out, Heyman leaves with Brock. Everybody wins.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think they do...
ReplyDeletehttp://guyspeed.com/longest-wwe-championship/
ReplyDeleteStill over.
ReplyDeleteI would pay to watch Kung Fu Panda vs the Kung Fu Panda Ripoff from the new World of Warcraft
ReplyDeleteThe Bears and Cowboys are two iconic teams with two volatile quarterbacks--I'm sure their game played a part in the ratings drop.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I'd panic about is the length of the interview segments and the lack of individual character development (the creative staff always seems so afraid of taking the next step with a character or angle after they stumble upon something that works). Otherwise, it's still a strong 2 hour show in a 3 hour timeslot.
That's way too beautiful, I was shooting for the realm of possibility. Which I suppose is foolish in FANTASY booking anyway. But yeah, obviously this scenario would be perfect.
ReplyDeleteBut... but they just added their third this week with Heath Slater teaming with random jobbers!
ReplyDeleteNot to mention those 20 minute segments back in the day set up about a month's worth of storylines, not just a single main event for a show
ReplyDeleteThis company needs a shot in the arm like no one's business. They need to get behind someone and push them to the moon so they can create a new star. They are so afraid to really push someone that you end up with a roster full of guys with no direction ergo the fans have no one to get behind.
ReplyDeleteI worry, it's because Cena wasn't on the show... this can only mean one thing... MORE CENA. Raw was unwatchable live, 3hrs is just wayyyyy to long, however condensed down into 2hrs it would of been a stellar show. I called by the end of the year they would revert back to 2hrs due to the awful ratings, it's no surprise it is going that way.
ReplyDeleteRaw has become so unwatchable at this point, I pretty much tune in for maybe 5 minutes, hate what I see and switch back to HIMYM, MNF, etc. I'm down to watching just Impact to get my wrestling fix now, and considering it took me about 3 years to start watching TNA, that doesn't bode well for WWE
ReplyDeleteAt this point I'm rooting for the ratings to drop and drop some more. As long as they're happy with the bottom line they won't change anything, and I know it's probably become the typical internet fan thing to complain about, but it annoys me that they pretty much decided that we're not allowed to like CM Punk. Not just because it's Punk, who I actually wasn't a fan of until last summer, but because of the message they're sending - you'll like who we want you to like and that's it.
ReplyDeleteSo, fuck em. Ratings are down, buyrates are down, but they still keep telling us that we'll watch what they want us to watch. Well, maybe not.
This is the problem... it's booked as a 2 hour show to stretch to over 3 hours. If the 3 hours were better-paced, the show would be easier to digest.
ReplyDeleteAs someone pointed out -- they recapped Team Hell No getting it's name. Also, Sandow and Sheamus didn't need 16 minutes in the ring.
ReplyDeleteAnd so there's a world title match on both house show tours.
ReplyDeleteThey really picked the worst time to go to 3 hours. The product is boring, and it seems like nothing happens on a regular 2 hour show. In the grand scheme of things does what happens from the start of Raw to the finish ever really matter? It's the same shit the next week. Maybe if it was the Attitude Era and things happened they could make a 3 hour show worth paying attention to but I just can't sit through 3 hours knowing it's not going anywhere.
ReplyDeleteYeah as much as I like waiting to see where it goes and THE BUSINESS, telling stories is my favorite for some reason.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see them try to twist their DID YOU KNOW's this week.
ReplyDeleteDID YOU KNOW
Monday Night Raw still airs during the NFL season.
You know shit's serious when Scott quotes the name of a Marion Raven song.
ReplyDelete(Not a knock by any means, she's a fantastic singer.)
Actually I pointed out in the RAW rant that Cena has been in the lowest rated segments for the past month so that pretty much kills the theory that Cena is a ratings draw.
ReplyDeleteI've been saying the same thing for months, I say they strap the rocket to Bryan, he's already over as hell, so most of the work is already done. I think they need to call up a few guys from FCW too, just for some fresh blood. Think about it, who was the last wrestler to debut? Tensai? And he used to work for the company, so he really doesn't count.
ReplyDeleteOkay, that made me laugh.
ReplyDeleteI watch Revolution on Mondays and flip to Monday Night Football during commercials. I hope this is the long-awaited wake-up call WWE needs to make a major shakeup in booking. This company has Paul Heyman under contract. If they gave him a chance, he could be their Bruce Pritchard and turn that company around.
ReplyDeleteOf course, we all know that isn't going to happen. WWE is going to blame the absence of John Cena for the poor ratings and give him the title as soon as he comes back at the expense of CM Punk. If that is WWE's reaction, I hope it doesn't help them and TNA starts drawing ratings that are at least competitive with Smackdown (by the way, Smackdown's ratings are also in free fall, so it isn't just Cena's absence). I don't want WWE's ratings to fall enough for them to be dropped by NBC Universal or for the company to go bankrupt, but I want their ratings to fall enough for them to get a wake-up call and finally change their booking to something that I'm actually interested in watching.
They matter in the sense that less eyeballs on your main show (and by extension, probably your other shows) theoretically equals less people interested in your brand, so less house show attendance, less ppvs, less merch sales, etc, etc.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the actual rating doesn't matter on the overall economy of the company, but it probably means the company won't do well overall and in the future if it keeps dropping.
There is zero chance Heyman would work under Stephanie McMahon in a booking capacity again.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, she's been the biggest problem with this company for years. She gets a pass for obvious reasons, but I swear, if her last name was not McMahon, Vince would've fired her a long time ago.
I want Russo back. His stuff is goofy enough to work on a scale like WWE. MAKE THE CALL, VIN MAN.
ReplyDeleteYet another week where not only the third hour is soft, but the first as well. Not a good trend at all, I think it shows the show is becoming something fans watch when nothing else is on. It isn't building momentum as the show goes on.
ReplyDeleteMNF was certainly hurting some during the MNW era which helped things, but wrestling still compared very favorably with college football, which was quite hot at the the time.
Demographically, they seem to be hanging in there on some key indicators, but if those slip more they could be in trouble. It'd be one thing if he drop was just isolated for one hour, but the extra hour seems to be too much for the creative team to fill with material that doesn't turn fans off.
Liked. A lot.
ReplyDeleteI think that for those inclined to apologize for WWE, and parrot their spin, the disapproving narrative over Punk's heel turn has been reduced to either being a huge mark for Punk, or an irrationally contrarian super-smark; neither of which is true in my estimation.
What is at issue is what Punk's heel turn is symptomatic of: WWE's complete and utter contempt for their audience. And there's no plausible way to either argue that's not the case, or to justify it. It's objectively clear this is the case, and it is a catastrophic problem. It doesn't matter what the entertainment medium is, the producers having complete and utter contempt for their audience is a creatively and economically bankrupt way to operate an enterprise; and the evidence is on display every Monday night, both in the aesthetic quality of the product and the ever-declining ratings. When decisions like Punk's heel turn are viewed through that prism, they're completely indefensible, short of advocating for masochism.
I think I've argued this case so well, that there's no possible way I can continue to watch the product under the circumstances.
Buyrates are mostly up from last year.
ReplyDeleteDo people create multiple accounts just to spout the same rhetoric over and over on here?
ReplyDeleteWho knows, perhaps this is just a temporary blip -- an outlier and things will be back to normal next week.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe our so called "male soap opera" is starting down the same path that traditional soap operas started down 10 or 12 years ago. Time sort of passed the genre by, via a slow but steady erosion of the core audience, year after year. With soaps, I think the demos skewed older and older over time, destroying the generational passing down of the show that seemed to help it flourish.
Just to name two who have debuted AFTER Tensai; Antonio Cesaro and Damien Sandow.
ReplyDeleteSo are DC Comics' sales thanks to "The New 52" stunt, but no one with half a brain believes that's sustainable. Anymore than bringing back Rock and Brock is for WWE buyrates. But I suppose I should excuse you from those with at least half a brain, given your always astute comments.
ReplyDeleteRock still does it in 2012. Triple H still does it in 2012. They haven't changed anything in their style of doing promos since the Attitude era.
ReplyDeleteAnd as far as I'm concerned, Paul Heyman could talk for a whole hour and it would be interesting.
Let's be clear that a good segment (that gave some top players something to do on the show) featuring; CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Kane, AJ, Vickie Guerrero, Dolph Ziggler, and Paul Heyman is being hated on.
ReplyDeleteI'll take "Would you like a pony as long as you're dreaming?" for 50 million, Alex.
ReplyDeleteBut buyrates are mostly up from last year. Just ask BuckDiddy.
ReplyDeleteWait, cherry-picking? What's that?
But the heel turn comes with a free frogurt!
ReplyDelete"Insidious" Made with $1.5 million, made almost $100 million at the box office.
ReplyDeleteFor me it's a combination: the irony of just how horrific they actually are at telling stories, and how it applies to virtually everything on the show. I mean, they are so inept at telling stories, that the idea that's what they're going for is just endlessly amusing. You could grab virtually any wannabee-Robert Towne from a Robert McKee seminar--rigidly adhering to the most monotonous, pedantic storytelling--and it would seem like fucking Charlie Kaufman compared to the shit they turn out.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'll be damned. Thanks for that link.
ReplyDeleteWell even with the PPV category, though I admit I haven't looked at the last couple of shows aside from Summer Slam, I believe they are just barely over last years figures YTD. We'll know more once the final #s come in of course.
ReplyDeleteIt'll be very interesting to see how buyrates go with the RAW rating dropping in what is traditionally the weakest period for PPV all year (September through December). I'm not sure if it is statistically possible, but if they perform especially poorly they could come out below last years average. Even if they finish marginally ahead of last year (maybe 1 to 2%) that's nothing to celebrate -- last year was one of the worst years for them since 2003. For a comparison, UFC had the worse or 2nd worst year on PPV in 7 years this year, but they had a median # of buys more than twice the WWEs.
Another thing to consider is that the WWE continues to expand the number of markets with PPV access internationally, but the number of buys is not increasing notably. Effectively they have a smaller piece of an expanding pie.
Look at you with your cute comic book comparison and your put-down of part-time wrestlers. Fact remains, buyrates are up from last year. DC's sales are up because some of the "New 52" are actually...gasp...good.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you're trying to take the higher road with your quasi-intellectual façade, but please, step off.
ATT U-VERSE 4 recordings at a time.
ReplyDeleteRAW?
ReplyDeleteSandow has been there before as Idol Stevens.
ReplyDeleteUm...AJ wasn't wearing shorts?
ReplyDeleteYeah, Scott even pointed that one out YEARS ago in one of his books- essentially, the key problems are writing at the TOP of the company- a new inventive writer would be a great benefit over the failed sitcom writer Gewirtz, and the AWFUL Stephanie McMahon (who thankfully doesn't actively try to get over at the expense of the talent anymore).
ReplyDeleteAlso, although I don't think it is a fair comparison, given that cable ratings have changed so much -- but to throw a little gasoline on the fire, if you consider the whole run of MNR and pull out the contested weeks with Nitro -- in other words, if you choose the weeks in MNR history where it had no wrestling competition, in terms of rating points (though not viewers, as there are more cable households per ratings point today since more homes have cable) this is the worst rated RAW since April 3rd, 1993, when Raw scored a 2.4 rating up against the NCAA Finals.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Revolution is luring away Raw fans. It's more than your average weekly drama. Hell, there's a sword fight every fifteen minutes. Bullets fly. 'Splosions. It's good entertainment, something Raw's been lacking lately.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, if you haven't seen Revolution yet, give the pilot a try. It's directed by the fellow who did Swingers and Iron Man.
I sporadically watched from 2006-2008. Sorry for the misinformation.
ReplyDeleteThat's the barometer for a good segment?
ReplyDeleteI'm just thinking of possible complaints.
ReplyDeleteI'm willing to bet HITC bombs. I just haven't seen anyone so far that's at all excited about the show.
ReplyDeleteno need to apologize.
ReplyDeleteApologize....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJhPLGMhRuQ
True, but a lot of people have said that about a lot of shows, and it always seems to turn out differently.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind guys leaving to shoot movies since it gives them a couple of months off to rest, recuperate and in most cases freshen up the act a little bit. Of course, no amount of time off could freshen up Orton, who I would gladly never see again
ReplyDeleteWrestling might die out, but wrestling fans won't. Once wrestling comes back on Monday nights, so will the fans. Vince killed half his audience when he decided the make Raw an entertainment/variety/whatever they're calling it this week show that just happened to feature wrestling. But that's not what wrestling fans want, so they tune out.
ReplyDeleteAnd for some strange reason, Vince thinks he can replace the wrestling fan with the casual tv viewer. The problem is that the entertainment stuff they do to rope those people in is so god awful they won't watch. And even if they were doing a good job of it, nobody in the mainstream media covers it, so these people will never hear about it. Every new show the networks regurgitate every year gets a ton of pub from bloggers, critics, and print media. How is someone supposed to find out about Raw outside of the very small WWE "Universe"?
BuckDiddy, if you hate the general consensus of this blog, then why are you here? And didn't Scott ban you awhile back, how did you end up back here anyway?
ReplyDeleteAnd that Hulu guy also evidently thinks there's a "Monday Night Smackdown".
ReplyDeleteAnd if we're counting international audiences, there's also Vintage Collection, Bottom Line, Afterburn, and The WWE Experience.
"... the matches are too short..." "...I want a wrestling show, not soap..."
ReplyDelete...and now Sheamus and Sandow didn't need 16 minutes...
What goes around, comes around. If you built your main show around guys who are active only once a year, you can't expect the viewers to get behind the minor guys.
ReplyDeleteI would now make a big stable around CM Punk and Paul Heyman with new guys and known guys like Cesaro, Barrett, Sandow, Brock Lesnar, Ziggler or so. You have to make them so mean, that the audience is begging that John Cena wears black and white facepaint and coming down from under the roof with a baseball bat...*g*
Now that is reporting. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThis is the sorry state of the current WWE product: bringing Russo back is an option. smh
ReplyDeleteRatings do affect the company's "economy" since they drive how much USA can charge advertisers, as well as which companies will advertise on the show. Does WWE sttill get a portion of ad revenue? And the higher the rating the more clout they have when negotiating with TV networks.
ReplyDeleteIt was a stupid segment. Hey guys come out and argue for 20 minutes so GM comes out and makes wacky tag team main event. That crap gets old after 5 years no matter how talented the people are.
ReplyDeleteAnd AJ is still awful as GM, no matter if she says 3 lines or 30.
to be fair: I will not only mean MORE CENA. but also: more Triple H and other guys that are part timers but are considered "draws". and maybe more celebrities or something like that.
ReplyDeleteHe's here because he's trolling. He'll be banned again, trolls can't help themselves.
ReplyDeleteDID YOU KNOW: We totally knew this rating was gonna be that low last week. So it's OK.
ReplyDeleteIt was North Carolina-Michigan. Michigan had beaten Kentucky in the national semi-final on Saturday night.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, this is a down time of year generally. Nothing notable has taken place in the fall, maybe ever, other than a few big occurrences at Survivor Series. WWE should treat this time of year as a time to experiment leading into the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, the lack of star power is really hurting things. There is one household name in WWE right now, and he can't be on screen for 3 hours once a week. Especially, when he's injured right now. They have obviously done a poor job in creating stars that casual fans want to watch weekly, and it's showing.
Third, the 3 hour thing is killing the ratings. It's just too long. People will flip to see if their guy is on and if not, it's back to football. Not many people can watch a 3 hour show on a weekly basis. Are there any other 3 hour shows, other than sporting events? Sports get ratings because it is one singular event that lasts for that long. A WWE show is 15 consecutive segments, or events, running over a 3 hour time. It doesn't work for any other scripted genre and it won't work for WWE.
At the very least, if they wanted to experiment with 3 hours, do it between the Rumble and WM, when it's the peak of the WWE year and there's no Monday Night Football. Starting in July was just a bad idea.
I'd say the obvious answer to the WWE ratings woes is, without a doubt, THE USA GUY:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1RXeHvZbHk&feature=relmfu
Has anyone else seen these videos? They're actually really, really funny.
Anyway, I'm sold. Call up The USA Guy and push his ass to the moon.
yup right you are. I accidentally put April 3 for RAW and edited it to change it to Apr. 5, but neglected to change the game.
ReplyDelete"SEE, we gave the internet darling a long title reign and look what happened..." smh More Cena...ugh.
ReplyDelete"he can't be on screen for 3 hours once a week." I wouldn't put it past them
ReplyDeleteVery true. If they are content with popping one massive buyrate at the expense of the remainder of the year's product, this is what they get. Part-timers are great for that, but the rest of the roster can't maintain that level
ReplyDeleteI've always liked Bateman (Johnny Curtis too for that matter), hope he gets a shot.
ReplyDeleteSomebody probably made this point (thread is too long for me to read the whole thing), but this probably means more Vince cause he actually *does* move the needle. I wish it wasn't so but he's up there with Rock and Brock as the only guys shown to bring the ratings up (not by a lot but still up) by themselves.
ReplyDeleteI'd tend to agree, just because if anything history seems to show that is the case. It does sort of make you wonder how long they can go on pushing this concept of 'wrestling' before a whole generation of people passes through it though and has no concept of anything different though.
ReplyDeletebecause this is the wrestlers fault and not the stagnant creative direction of te show at all.
ReplyDelete6.5
ReplyDeleteYeah, he's my other alternate account on top of Chin, johntcole, flair4dagold, Ryan Murphy, and Dougie.
ReplyDeleteThe "Kung Fu Panda Ripoff" from World of Warcraft was around MUCH LONGER before Kung Fu Panda was even a sketch on a napkin in the Dreamworks Cafe.
ReplyDeleteI don't hate it here at all. I enjoy arguing my opinion against the consensus opinion on here.
ReplyDeletePointing out the flaws of the blog and generally calling stupid ideas stupid is trolling? If that's the case I guess John Stewart should stop commenting on Fox News (not comparing y'all to Fox News, but some do tread pretty closely).
ReplyDelete"Do people create multiple accounts just to spout the same rhetoric over and over on here?"-BuckDiddy
ReplyDeleteThat's not an opinion, that's trolling, but whatever.
I think WWE should throw every cent they have at Aaron Sorkin. Him (or a film/TV writer of his stature) writing RAW would definitely be different. 8 )
ReplyDeleteIt's not trolling. People come in WWE related threads just to shit on WWE, even if they don't watch a whole episode or don't watch at all. I don't go into TNA threads unless I've watched that episode. Showing that same respect would help this community grow rather than stagnate the topics.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, look at what he did with Olivia Munn.
ReplyDeleteImagine what he could do with an entire Diva's division!
It is trolling, just re-read your comments. BTW, you're guessing folks didn't watch the show, that's your assumption.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it's ok to comment on just a part of the episode. If I watch a promo with Cena and Punk and think Cena shit all over him, I can totally comment on that portion of the show. You don't need to see the whole thing.
I really don't think that it is though. It seems like they're scrambling to fill time when they don't need to be. Cesaro vs. Brodus was about a minute long, and most of the rest of those shorter matches were a similar length. They did the same thing on a 2 hour show, and instead they had long gimmick segments that just reiterated the same points. You can still have the long opening promo, couple undercard matches, big build to the mid-show match, more storyline stuff and some other matches, and the main event match/promo/whatever. Just make all those undercard matches REAL matches, that last a few minutes longer. Most of the talent they have right now are capable of doing it, and those that aren't would stand to learn. They really didn't have a bad formula down with the 2 hour pacing, they should just stick to it.
ReplyDeleteYes, you don't need to see the whole thing, but if you only watched a certain segment don't throw blanket statements around about the whole show.
ReplyDeleteAnd people have commented in the past, "Oh man I did not watch this week but from reading your recap I can tell that Cena was awful OMGTURNHIMHEELNOWPLZNTHX".
I think at least a small part of the issue has to be that the show is so formulaic. I mean, when's the last time something monumental happened at 8:43 PM? If people don't want to commit to the entire 3 hour show, they know that they just need to check at the top of the hour. And when your show is running late (like it was this week) and something less-than-thrilling is on when people are stopping in....they're probably not going to stick around. They need to train people to believe that they can't miss a second of the show....that something could happen partway through the second hour. Right now they don't have that.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the only person who can't stand her on "The Newsroom". It could be residue from her annoying faux-nerd schtick on AOTS and being the least funniest correspondent The Daily Show ever had, but every time I watch her, I feel like she's being outclassed by everyone. Everyone else is acting and she's "acting". I wish that she would written out of the show already so I can enjoy 100% of the show and not just the 85% when she's not on it. Reminds me of Katie Holmes's terrible performance in Batman Begins, where she stuck out in a top-to-bottom killer cast that she was over her head with.
ReplyDelete