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And the ratings pool winner is...

2.5, although this ended up being the lowest rating in 15 years.


Guess that means we'll be seeing some resignations soon?  Hopefully starting at the top with Stephanie?  

Comments

  1. WWE's "Did You Knows" are the absurdly-large breast implants to the ratings' butterface.

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  2. Smh, I'm not surprised at the continued dropping of the ratings for this show.

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  3. From the sounds of it, it's probably a good thing no one watched last night.

    In a twisted way, I hope they panic & put the belt on Ryback just the see the bottom fall out. Although the AJ/Cena/Vickie fiasco may do the trick.

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  4. I doubt we'll see any major shake-ups from it, to be honest. I think that you're watching the "big momentum push" that the 10/1 show spawned play out right now. Until the needle drops below the dreaded 2.0 line, you wont be likely to see anything uber-big go down. Vince seems to think that he's got his finger on the pulse now, which is a historically dangerous time for the company.

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  5. I read it was just slightly higher than the record low. If this cena/aj/Vickie thing is the next big angle they will alienate lots of viewers. Why won't they just book a wrestling show and not write a bad tv show.

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  6. Of course the wwe can just say "hey we went against the prez debate, a game 7 between the last two world series champions and a mnf with a national team like the bears and still got a 2.5"

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  7. WWE really needs to add a 4th hour to Raw.

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  8. At this point, I feel like I'm watching the Titanic sail off and hoping it sinks because you find out the Captain is some deranged moron who filled the crew with a bunch of people who don't know a thing about running a ship, and his daughter and her husband are the ones in charge of all of them.

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  9. They'll regain their footing when WrestleMania season hits, but 2012 has to be considered a big disappointment right? They built up a huge Rock/Cena feud, which led directly to the re-introduction of Brock Lesnar that had people on the fainting couches. They had Raw 1000 which could have re-energized what was a lethargic summer, but served only to set up a Punk heel turn that isn't clicking. There's a lot of big stuff that's happened, but they've yet to get any momentum or build any buzz.

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  10. It feels too typical to blame it on Cena....but they have a top face, who's supposed to be the reason people watch and follow week to week, who gets booed out of the building. What do they think the people that hate him do when they're in another town the next week? Eagerly tune in to see the adventures of the guy they hate?

    It blows my mind they can't put 2 and 2 together here - they ignore whatever fans naturally take to, and force guys fans don't like or don't care either way about on them.
    The frustrating thing is that they have an audience that tells them what they like - it's not like developing, writing, casting, scripting, and filming a show, hoping the audience takes to it. They have a live audience telling them every week what they do and don't like.

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  11. Exactly. If they only had enough time to tell their stories properly!

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  12. I'd be surprised if they let the bleeding go on much longer before they cut the cord on the three hour shows. I think they are actually doing unintended damage to the rating and the core audience, because even as a two hour show, the ratings are down. When they started this experiment, the show normally had one hour in the toilet, with the other two near the average, but now you're seeing the other two hours starting to lose viewers as well.

    On the sunny side of things, at least this week was a bit more
    consistent in terms of viewers from hour to hour, they had a show a few
    weeks ago where they lost a million viewers between the first and second
    hour.

    Things are going to be pretty lean until after the Rumble I'm sure, but even then I expect the ratings to be down over the ratings last year for the same period. With how bad the ratings have been, I'd expect the PPV buys to be the same story at least through December.

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  13. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 6:17 PM

    Wow. Isn't 2.5 about where Smackdown was just a few years ago? I know there's a million reasons why TV ratings are down across the board (Modern Family is the top sitcom on TV, yet you can't compare it to say, Seinfeld), but when the average for their flagship show is hitting the mid 2s, that is a HUGE cause for concern because a year or two from now the ratings could be below 2.0, and then cancellation could become a possibility. WOW.


    I wonder if there's ANY chance they're thinking it's overhaul time. I'm talking completely new style of presentation, new announcers, getting rid of the GM, changing the format of the show, aging up the tone, and most of all focusing on new stars. In terms of audience erosion, this is definitely getting into 1995-96 territory.

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  14. Cena isn't the problem, it's the people writing his character.

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  15. Although I believe she is by far the biggest detriment to WWE, never in a million years will she resign.

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  16. His character is worse now than ever - they write him to be an asshole, he's over-exposed, etc.....but John Cena being unpopular is nothing do, I don't blame it entirely on how they write him now.

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  17. In all honesty I can legitimately see Raw getting a mulligan for last night's rating. As mentioned, they were up against a ridiculous perfect storm of programming that normally doesn't happen, and may never have happened before.

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  18. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

    Also, I think it goes without saying, but John Cena is absolutely the problem here. Cena as the focus of the program (especially the ultra smug, disengaged Cena we've been getting for about 2 years now) will only continue to shed viewers going forward, not gain new ones. There is absolutely nothing new for fans to see in the adventures of Babyface John Cena. And even when they make their weak attempts at building new face stars (Punk last year, Sheamus, Ryback now) it doesn't matter: with John Cena around, the entire show remains built around him. And the audience is making it clear: they're tired of watching The John Cena Show. Turn him heel or cut him loose.


    And man, if the plan is still to give Cena the big babyface title win over Rock at Mania, then they deserve to get cancelled next year.

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  19. Write him to be a normal human being and not some pandering douche, and the boos will stop. He can still cut good promos and put on great matches but it's Jim Carrey on steroids act that everyone hates.

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  20. WWE Raw: Written by idiots for children and analyzed by adults. There's our disconnect. Something is just so wrong with this product. Everything is wrong. There is nothing being done correctly. How can anybody enjoy this crap?

    Someone in one of the other threads mentioned how the Attitude era is noted for Crash TV\sex\violence when the REAL reason it was compelling was because it had strong characters booked in strong story-lines. 1997-2001 was compelling television desptite all the Russo crap lingering. Today's product has bad everything which magnifies the bad soap opera writing 100-fold.

    Somebody else (their dad?) said it best in the RAW thread: "none of the wrestlers look tough."

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  21. This guy gets it. There are legitimate excuses for a bad rating this week.

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  22. i can't even comprehend that

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  23. If they're not thinking it's overhaul time they sure as fuck should be.

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  24. And this Make a Wish, Be A Star, etc stuff needs to go. What other tv show uses airtime to highlight charity? Put that shit on the website. WWE needs to stop targeting stay at home soccer moms.

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  25. Yes, CHARACTERS. The guys on the roster now are probably more talented, athletic, etc, but what do we know about them? Dolph Ziggler likes to show off. Kofi Kingston, is...what, exactly? A fun loving black gentleman? The Attitude was interesting because you had these unique characters interacting. I know it sounds silly on paper, but a porn star banging a preachers wife, causing him to revert back to a cross dressing freak to get revenge? Crazy? Sure, but it's a story. The Rock and Steve Austin have to team up after months of hating one another? That's intriguing because Steve Austin is a crazy motherfucker and he's not going to become your best pal just because you're a good guy now. He just might beat the Rock down, just because he can...it's pretty simple now. Good guys face bad guys, good guys like other good guys, bad guys like other bad guys.

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  26. Shouldn't it be time to turn Cena heel simply because his fan-base has grown up? Hogan turned heel right when a lot of us had grown up and we became wise to the worked nature of the product and grew tired of "little kid" WWF from the 80s and New Generation era. Hogans becoming a villain along with the impending Attitude/nWo \Steve Austin eras mirrored our rise to adulthood and our cynicism. It was a fresh coat of paint on a dead product we still had a love for.

    Those 12 year old Cena fans in 2008 are 16 now and are probably aching for something edgy and new to re-energize the product. I mean really, how many of us were 14-22 yrs old in the late 90s/early 2000s and came back to wrestling cause it seemed more adult?

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  27. The problem with smug prick Cena is that they don't portray him as a heel who will eventually get what's coming to him. They portray him as a smug prick who will get what he wants in the end.

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  28. Yeah, but back when the product was hot, they didn't need excuses and would score giant ratings despite football and every other competition. The product is ice cold and people are just not interested in it.

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  29. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

    LASTLY (sorry for the triple post), but does anyone think that The Rock coming back at Mania 27 actually hurt the WWE? I mean, no, not if you look at the money they've made off him up to now, since he singlehandedly delivered huge buyrates for Mania 27 and 28. (Seriously, how bad would Mania 27 have bombed if not for Rock? Was a straight up Cena-Miz match gonna main event that show?) BUT I do think The Rock's comeback had several longer term effects:
    - Rock (and Lesnar) give WWE short term financial band-aids which keep them from addressing their real problems. Sure Rock saved Mania 27, but perhaps if that show just bombed and business bottomed out, they would have made some drastic product changes already. Even now, as bad as these ratings are, I could imagine Vince just basically staying the course because he knows Rock will save their ass at Rumble and Mania.
    - Rock's sporadic presence really makes the regular WWE programming feel inconsequential. I mean, it's pretty much how WWE has booked everything the last 2 years, where they basically tell you that nothing is important until the REAL stars (Rock, Lesnar, Taker, Triple H by default) are there. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy when ratings tank until Mania season.
    - Lastly, I don't think we can underestimate how much damage Rock has done to John Cena as a draw. I assume their original thinking was that the Rock feud would make Cena into an even bigger star, when it's safe to say now that it did the exact opposite. Honestly, I don't think Cena ever recovered from the original Feb '11 "fruit pebbles" promo. You basically had the coolest guy in wrestling history come out and call Cena a bitch, point out all of Cena's flaws, and then also kick his ass in every physical encounter. And hey, I'm a giant Rock fan-slash-Cena hater, so I loved every second of it. But how the fuck did they think that John Cena could continue to be a babyface star after that "feud"? Whatever starpower John Cena had going into 2011, well The Rock killed it dead, and this is the aftermath.

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  30. Someone on CRZ's board suggested that they move Cena from active wrestler to the heel GM role, so he can do his stupid comedy and control the show without having to win every match. Plus he can still get into the ring to pay off the "Evil Boss" role.

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  31. I'm not in the E but I'm willing to bet Cena is nearing the point where he has a lot of control over his image on screen. Similar to Hogan he does a lot of charity, Make-A-Wish and what not and is on a lot of the daytime and nighttime shows for the company. The writers could probably write Cena as a babyface who just gets tired of all the injustices done by the heels and makes it his mission to use any means to defeat them even if it's by force, Kind of an Avenger-type hero who may not be squeeky clean, but his endgame is pure. I would actually enjoy that guy, and he might be liked. But if Cena says no way, it won't happen. Just like creative control clause or not, had Hogan not wanted to become Hollywood, the third man would have been someone else and the nWo would have been a different animal.

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  32. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM

    Exactly. Also, last night definitely wasn't a perfect storm of programming. MNF happens every week. The baseball playoffs happen every year— and pretty soon basketball starts. Will they get a mulligan up against NBA games? What about when American Idol starts, or if it's the season finale of Dancing with the Stars, or maybe it's a very special episode of Two Broke Girls. Should WWE expect 2.2 ratings? I remember reading people over the summer counting things like Hatfields and Mccoys as excuses for a bad rating, which is bullshit. Monday night is ALWAYS a big night for TV, and there will always be artificial excuses.


    Their problem is that they're pushing a TV show with a lead character that nobody wants to watch anymore.

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  33. That sums it up. Raw was must see on Mondays for me. Now it's not. I've watched every Monday Night NFL game since the season started. Before that sometimes I'd skip Raw just because I had something else on and didn't feel like changing the channel. Last night I watched baseball and football, and in between the American Presidential Debate, and I'm Canadian. Raw's just not a good show anymore. If it was, I'd watch it, regardless of what else is on.

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  34. They should just call the Network The Raw Network and do the show non-stop with a day shift, a night shift, and a graveyard recap shift. That way its all-cena all the time!

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  35. I guess I should re-phrase. I don't think Cena is the problem due to lack of talent. He can go in the ring, he can cut promos when he's not giving lame inspirational speeches, talking about poop or talking about his high moral fiber....but he's the problem because he's a top face who isn't exactly beloved and they're writing the show as if the vast majority love him and they don't. Then they wonder why record numbers aren't tuning in to see the trials and tribulations of the guy they hate.

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  36. Cosign with Scott on this one.

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  37. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 6:47 PM

    Hahahaha, not a bad idea. But good God, there's absolutely nobody I want to see in the GM role any longer, not even a more "out of the box" choice like Cena. My #1 wish as a wrestling fan would be to abolish the onscreen authority figure. It's completely killing every wrestling TV show.

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  38. All of that is more creative's fault than Cena's.

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  39. What's most surprising to me is that they keep losing viewers in the last hour. I have followed wrestling ratings online since 1996 and I don't ever remember the WWE having the ratings get worse as the show goes on. That is not a good trend.

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  40. But dude, don't you remember?

    Vince is no longer involved in the "Rasslin'" business. It's the sports entertainment business.

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  41. It dates back to 2005 though. It's worse now than it's ever been but with the occasional exceptions no matter the year, the feud, the angle, the color of his t-shirt, he's gotten booed by a larger percentage of the crowd that the top face typically gets booed by. It might be that a lot of people who have been waiting him out just stopped.

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  42. WCW was killing WWF back in the day. Nothing Vince tried could turn the tide. Then Steve Austin came along. People liked Steve Austin. They liked him a lot. So you know what they did? They started watching WWF so they could watch Steve Austin. Because Raw became a show about the popular and entertaining Steve Austin.

    It might work the other way - build a show around a guy people don't like, and they don't watch.

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  43. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 6:53 PM

    Knowing that really is so disheartening as a wrestling fan. But you're right, it's true. The only hope is that they minimize her via a promotion— why in God's name does Stephanie need to lead the creative team? Can't she head up marketing or PR or glabal expansion or some other aspect of the business? I assume he problem isn't that Stephanie is a moron— the problem is that she's a moron when it comes to booking wrestling and telling stories. Especially stories that a most male audience wants to watch.


    So yeah, that might be our hope, that they finally decide to replace her on creative, but save face by bumping her up in some other department. Otherwise, well, fuck.

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  44. We might get, for the first time ever, a poop in your pants match, live on Raw.

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  45. Not to mention that baseball game was over by the 4th inning. The show kept dropping viewers after the baseball game was way out of hand.

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  46. All you people bashing Cena and claiming he's the problem... think of the children! Think of the Make A Wish wishes! Think of the merchandise! Think of the ratings! Think of the binders full of women who cheer for him!


    Oh fuck it, I hope his recently operated on arm falls off.

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  47. Exactly, the fans grew with the product, and the product, in turn, grew with the fans.

    Unfortunately, I don't see the current product doing that any time soon. Most likely, they'll try to weed out the older fans and bring in new, younger fans. They've become the Power Rangers: Turbo of wrestling.

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  48. Can someone please explain the binders of women thing to me? I know Romney said it in the debate, but in what context? What was he talking about?

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  49. The mess that is wwe creative is finally starting to catch up with them. If the rest of the show was done well a stale guy on top wouldn't be that bad. But what reason should you really watch. Almost nothing happens. How many raws between this coming ppv and the last one would you need to see to know what's going on? Imo just watch really any one because it doesn't matter. How come they employ all these tv writers but nothing happens week to week. Yes each show has some good promos and/or good matches as a stand alone show to watch, but there is no reason to follow raw week to week because nothing really ever happens.

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  50. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 7:04 PM

    YUP. And also, I wonder if the effect of ONE nationally televised baseball game is any different than going up against 12-15 regular season games. A regular season MLB Monday night will have huge amounts of viewers watching their local market games— and when it comes to teams like the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs etc, that's going to be a lot of people watching baseball.


    Plus, I just looked it up, and the game scored a 4.9 nationally. That's hardly an excuse for a low rating on Raw.

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  51. Val Venis and....who's the preacher/cross dresser?

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  52. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 7:05 PM

    It was during the office supplies portion of the debate.

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  53. I have a question: back in '94/'95, I was pretty young, didn't have internet or access to WCW. It seems that Hogan was pretty reviled back then but was he as hated as Cena is now? He's the only example I can think of as the top babyface getting a heel reaction for most or half the audience.

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  54. A hundred and one times yes. I felt like Raw in August and September showed some character progression, but NOTHING has happened this month outside of the spotlight on Ryback...and it's not like his character is actually growing.


    A new alliance or manager for someone, a teased face/heel turn, an extended or unexpected beatdown, a new catchphrase... anything would be welcome for the mid-card at this point.

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  55. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 23, 2012 at 7:14 PM

    It's hard to make the comparison, cause even in WCW Hogan was never as over exposed as John Cena has been in his era, but short answer: NO, not even close. As from what I remember you can tell WCW fans weren't going apeshit for him, and you'd hear some anti-Hogan boos and such, but I can't recall deafening "Hogan sucks!" chants from half the audience. Not once.

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  56. Despite all that's going wrong, I must say I find the Kane and Daniel Bryan stuff totally entertaining. The wacky tag team that can't get along has been done before, but never this well and this funny. From the choice of words to the facial expressions, it clicks.


    The best part is the Yes/No and "Hug it out" parts where the crowd can interact and get involved. Much like the New Age Outlaws intro and the Rock's catchphrases during the Attitude Era, getting the crowd involved makes them feel like part of it and the energy carries over.

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  57. Stop promoting charities, you evil corporation!

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  58. Not even close. Hogan was starting to get boos, but it was like 20% of the audience. But Hogan was never on every show. Not only is Cena on every show, he's usually on multiple times.

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  59. It's been sports entertainment for close to 30 years now. No sense in complaining about that anymore.

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  60. My prediction for Vince's latest attempt to get ratings back up is the first ever Elimination Chamber match on Raw. Either next week or the week after for the title or to see who is the number 1 contender at the next ppv.

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  61. They got a question about equality of women in the workplace and Romney talked about how he was trying to find someone for an opening and he got all these male applications and he asked if there were any women and his associates brought him "binders full of women".


    Pretty obvious what he meant, but the left has tried to use it to push their WAR ON WOMEN angle.

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  62. What do you know about THIS BUSINESS???? You're just a geek with a keyboard!

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  63. Name one other tv show that uses air time for the charity work they've done. Even the sports leagues don't do it. They save it for a 30 second commercial spot if at all.


    Nobody wants to watch that stuff. I have a hard time thinking of something dumber than marketing a show to kids by showing Be A Star video packages.

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  64. Fun loving black gentleman....fabulous. Good points though. I can remember getting my cousin to watch wrestling because it had this guy who drinks beer, flips everyone off, and beats up his boss.


    How could I even explain to a non-fan that Ziggler is worth watching?


    Hell even Cena would be a hard sell. He's a guy from Boston that used to rap

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  65. Wrestling, like any good form of entertainment (there's that word they like so much), has antagonists and protagonists. Or faces/heels in this case. When one side never plays their role and acts the part, why would anyone watch? Cena's going out and doing things that annoy the audience rather than endear them to him and the heels are going out wearing pink ribbons on their arms. Why don't heels start ACTING LIKE HEELS and piss of the audience.

    Oh, that's right. They'll get sued.

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  66. OK. Got it. Makes so little sense out of context.

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  67. With a post-show wrap up, hosted by Matt Striker and Todd Pettengill.

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  68. I'm hoping for Linda to lose the election. Then maybe they'll ditch TV PG.

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  69. Even worse, they're getting viewers into the habit of not watching with the third hour dropping viewers like it is. And if people can get into the habit of switching off one hour, they'll keep switching off. They're not going to miraculously gain their core audience back when football ends, because it's been shown that once you drive off those hardcore fans, they won't come back.

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  70. I agree. Austin-McMahon was probably the best angle but has also inspired another 15 years of similar storylines that keep getting significantly worse.


    Bad storylines don't usually lead me to anger but the Vicki announcement last night made me FURIOUS. It's kinda implied that Dolph and Vicki are an item as evidenced by Dolph making out with her after he beat Swagger and ended their little partnership. This should be enough to stop the crap right there. The WWE booking err....Creative Team is so much smarter than us though. They'll probably play it out like we all should have forgotten about Dolph and Vicki making out until ...GASP...Dolph and Vicki have been romantically linked the whole time!

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  71. Maybe it's rose tinted glasses with time, but I actually liked the vulnerable Cena of mid-2010 that was getting killed by Nexus. It made him a lot more sympathetic, but of course it all kind of collapsed when he made his miracle comeback at SummerSlam that year.


    I really wish they'd had him be beaten into submission and leave temporarily while Nexus had run rough shod over WWE only to return at the Rumble to win and go on against a champ Barrett at Mania. Showing that you're mortal and having to fight back against a true threat is a lot more interesting than Cena embarrassing Nexus for months before Wade Barrett is crushed by a pile of chairs killing his career forever.

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  72. The NFL highlights United Way and Play 60 on almost every broadcast - although most of the time it's a bumper ad telling you to go to NFL.com to learn more.

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  73. Hell, I'd watch that.

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  74. I hope she loses too, just for the general health of America. But I doubt it will make a difference as far as TV-PG goes. It's as much about sponsorships and toy deals as it is about the election.

    One thing that probably will happen if she loses is a massive round of cuts, both from the roster and from the backstage people. Not really a good idea to fire people while you're talking about creating jobs.

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  75. Yeah, if anything RAW and Nitro were causing Monday Night Football and CBS' Monday sitcoms to lose viewers, not the other way around like today.

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  76. Yeah, we didn't even know the main event for Raw until a full hour into the show. There's not really much story being told from one show to the next, and if there is, they'll re-cap it over and over, so there's no urgent need to be "caught up" on what's going on.

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  77. Just so we're clear, you are hating on WWE because they are doing something different than other TV shows.

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  78. The bet part about the story was it's complete bullshit. Romney and his opponent were given the "binders" during his campaign by a women's organization. The part where he claims to have just out of the blue said "Gosh, we sure need some ladies in this cabinet! Go find me some, guys." is a total pantload.

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  79. Something different that takes up airtime that could otherwise be used to, oh I don't know, not force them to go three hours and do a show that could otherwise be done in two.

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  80. Not to mention they've doused almost everything imaginable in pink for the whole month.

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  81. Yea, that was my dad that said that statement.


    His absolute most favorite time after the AA was around the time when Batista and Cena got their world title pushes, and to be honest it was my favorite time as well. Batista listining to HHH talk shit behind his back and finally slamming him down through the table. That was exciting! That was a guy who looked tough and acted tough, beating up a pompus ass that everyone hated. So simple.... YET SO EFFECTIVE!


    Same applies to John Cena Vs. JBL as well. I remember JBL saying something about Cena's mom or something. And Cena was not allowed to touch JBL before Mania, that made it COMPELLING to see how far Cena would snap. Now we get.... a soap opera. A bad one at that.


    Im not saying we need tits/ass/sex/hardcore stuff but we could use GOOD storylines aimed at *gasp* WRESTLING FANS. Whats that thing in the middle of the arena at your shows WWE?


    A wrestling ring!

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  82. It was a different animal because wrestling audiences and in particular WCW audiences weren't nearly as homogenized as they are now. In certain areas of the South that were old Crockett or Georgia territory Hogan was absolutely reviled probably MORE than Cena has ever been. An early Nitro in Charlotte where Hogan bitched out all the Horsemen to the boos of the crowd (as well as one memorable fan getting into the dead-center camera shot and tearing up a Hogan bandana before flashing the Horsemen sign) would be one memorable example. That said, in other areas the reaction was much more benign, though he was never, ever as popular as his WWF height.

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  83. That would just mean more Cena. And his stupid comedy *now* wouldn't work as a heel. I like the idea, but I think it needs some tweaking.

    Of course, Cena would actually have to turn heel, too. HAH!

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  84. Sure, this might be a good excuse for the current week -- I can buy that for an isolated week. But this is what, the third time in the last two months where the rating report was accompanied by words like "lowest rating in x years"? I think that's a sign of a much bigger problem.

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  85. Yeah, with Hogan it really depended on the crowd, even in late 1995 when the frequency of the booing really picked up. He'd get booed out of the building in Virginia and North Carolina, but then they'd do a Nitro in Georgia and the crowd would go nuts. The only place I remember being surprised about was the crowd was in Chicago -- Mene Gene tried to pass it off as the crowd booing him for dressing in black.

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  86. I don't think it's quite that universal in my opinion -- or rather Hogan and Austin bridging the gap from the young fans to the adolescent fans wasn't the biggest factor in what made them popular. Equally as important was the change in the culture in America as well -- the culture of cynicism had become widespread pretty much everywhere. You had a progression in music, where the music of choice for kids went from Michael Jackson to Nirvana and Dr. Dre, even in the suburbs. You had the rise of Jerry Springer (to the point where Oprah publicly considered retiring in 1996-1997 when he beat her out in the ratings) and South Park.

    Really I think that's the same reason the Rock-n-Wrestling stuff caught on in the 1980s too -- you had the WWF paired with something considered cutting edge by the youth culture in MTV that became a juggernaut, plus the Reagen years national obsession with good guys vs bad guys and superheros -- look at all the TV programming popular with youth from the early 1980s to the mid 1980s.

    That's why I don't think it will be as effective with Cena, the culture is not aligned with the WWE's writing style -- it's at odds with it.

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  87. But, BUT they make so much money in merchandising!

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  88. Yeah, they've been all over the place lately.

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  89. Assistant: Sir, we've run into a serious problem with the mission. These Nielsen ratings are the lowest ever. [holds a piece of paper]
    Scientist: Oh my God...we've been beaten by "A Connie Chung Christmas!"

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  90. "How is the mission going?"

    "I don't know sir, all this equipment is just for measuring TV ratings"

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  91. It's not just the NFL, there's been NASCAR races with so many pink cars that it's kind of hard to tell which car is which.

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  92. I've been saying pretty much the same thing for years now. Get rid of these fucking TV rejects and start using wrestling people again. Hell, there's plenty of them on the payroll. Put Heyman, Arn Anderson, Rick Steamboat, Michael Hayes, Dean Malenko, and even Waltman, Road Dogg, and Kevin Nash (if he still works there) in a room together and tell them to book some shit, I'm sure with all those people they can come up with something a hell of a lot better than the garbage we're seeing now.

    And they need to realize that they can push the envelope quite a bit further and still be TV-PG. WCW was PG, billed as "family entertainment" (at least until Russo got there), did some good stuff. Anyone remember the nWo? I'd even take bad WCW (pre-Russo) over today's WWE, just because it was still a wrestling show and not this "entertainment" bullshit. Hell, even most of the good stuff from the Attitude Era was PG, and the stuff that wasn't rarely contributed anything good to the show.

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  93. Once again, you're advocating removing charity spots and social change platforms from a prime time spot that's potentially changing the culture of how kids grow up.

    WWE is more than a wrestling company now. It has been ever since the Benoit incident. They want to entertain and educate, what the hell is wrong with that?

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  94. When's the last time something truly different happened with John Cena's character? The only thing springing to mind is him adding a submission finishing move to his arsenal. Everything else involves the people around him changing to keep the product fresh.

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  95. I think they're more likely to ditch TV-PG if she wins and doesn't want to be re-elected to a 2nd term (she is 64 years old). If she loses, we get to hear about Linda for Governor 2 years from now and then Linda for House in another 2 years if she loses a 3rd time.

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  96. But even just on the surface, it's a casual indicator of Rmoney's disregard toward women. And if you think that a "war on women" is just a "gimmick of the Left," I don't really know what to say to you.

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  97. If Suicide rates start going up at least we know where it's coming from.

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  98. I imagined JWOWW while reading this.

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  99. wasn't pretty much ALL of Raw is War in 1997 rated TV-PG?

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  100. they will.

    "We need to bring in more celebrities, DAMMIT!"

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  101. exactly. to me nowadays the question is not: what is wrong with the WWE? it's more like: what are the remaining few things that are not?

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  102. Exactly. As recently as a year ago me changing the channel during Raw was very unlikely. Now at 9 I just flip over to Two Broke Girls without batting an eye because I know nothing's gonna be happening.

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  103. i hear the show is really funny though.

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  104. Any kid who takes life lessons from ANYTHING told them on a WWE TV show is no kid I want functioning as a member of my society, thanks.

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  105. Yeah, it really is. The jokes are really sharp and Kat Dennings plays the snarky chick extremely well.

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  106. That show fucking blows fyi

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  107. In this one instance, while Romney did sort of exaggerate about asking for the binders. It must be said that he did have an amazingly large number of women working in high profile positions. Of course, I personally think this is had more to do with trying to please the denizens of Massachusetts than anything else, however the fact remains.

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  108. I think so, and Raw was probably still PG well into 1998, though a lot of the original DX stuff had to be close to crossing the line. It was really all the sex stuff that pushed it to TV-14, and all of that shit could have been taken out and the product would have been better for it. Sure, Val Venis and Sexual Chocolate were amusing, but it's not like they were main event guys and people would have really cared if they were gone.

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  109. "I mean, it's pretty much how WWE has booked everything the last 2 years, where they basically tell you that nothing is important until the REAL stars (Rock, Lesnar, Taker, Triple H by default) are there. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy when ratings tank until Mania season."


    This is absolutely their biggest problem. They book everyone to look like complete and utter chumps, then wonder why no one wants to watch them on TV or pay to see them.

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  110. I think Micheal Hayes books smackdown or something to that effect?


    I remember Scott posting a job opening for a creative position in WWE and it never said that you needed wrestling experience. Just experience in Communications or someshit.


    I dont think Vince gets it. WWE cant be on the level of stuff like SNL. WWE cant be on the level of the NFL, MLB, NBA etc. not at its current state anyway.


    WWE needs to do its own thing. Stop trying to be like every pop culture dreg thats out there, there's enough of that.

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  111. Even though it happened after the Summerslam comeback, the reports of kids crying and leaving the arena with their parents after Cena lost at HIAC 2010 and refunds being demanded when Cena didn't show up at house shows afterward essentially guaranteed we're not going to get long-term build-up like what you described anymore.

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  112. The problem is lack of protection for guys who aren't Cena, Punk or the other tippy top guys.

    Now upper midcarders like Rey, Christian, Kane, Bryan and Miz will regularly job despite being not far removed from major programs. Compare that to guys like Owen, Perfect, Benoit or Eddie who played similar roles but generally stayed protected for when they needed to slide into a temporary main event slot.

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  113. This is a thing that really happened?

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  114. Worse, they portray him as a smug prick whose smugness and prick-y-ness is virtuous, and should be emulated by your children.

    I mean hot damn, JR was face announcer during Attitude, but he didn't condone everything Austin or Rock did, sometimes he thought Austin's violence went a bit too far, or that Rock was a bit too mean. Now everybody is just tickled by everything John Boy does.

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  115. The Be a Star\Make a Wish stuff is annoying because it feels disingenuous. I'm sure Cena and some others really do enjoy making a kids day and believe in the good work they really do, but WWE throwing it in our faces just smells of "we're doing this to show you we're not a bad company that has employees that mysteriously die young\kill themselves\kill their families." It comes off as bad PR or shameless self promotion much like the "Did you Know" b.s.

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  116. For all we know Cena thinks the material he's given is golden, and requests to cut more Jim Carrey promos

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  117. Isn't sports entertainment just another way of saying wrestling in general? It's not a sport b/c it's pre-determined, but it's athletic.

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