What was going on in WWF during 1992?
Seems like Hogan would take down Flair at WM8... but then Hogan leaves and Macho gets the belt without build-up.... then Flair regains only to leave and drop to Bret without TV or PPV build-up.
I'm also pretty sure Tito Santana said he was almost picked to get the belt...
..seriously, what was going on in 1992? Was everything reactionary? In hindsight, feels like WCW booking logic.
Steroids are a hell of a drug. Things were all over the place during that time because of the steroid troubles throwing off all the long-term plans. Although in the case of Flair dropping the belt to Bret, that was very last minute, back in the day when there wasn't a PPV every month to wait for. Flair had an inner ear problem and for whatever reason Vince felt like they had to change the belt RIGHT THEN and Bret was the guy he picked. Although Tito certainly wasn't on the list, it was Bret, Savage, Warrior and someone else I can't remember on the short list.
Bret, Savage, Warrior, and Repo Man.
ReplyDeleteEl Matador would have drawn billions.
ReplyDeleteWarrior wasn't on the "short list" because Warrior and Bulldog getting fired was the catalyst behind the title change; Vince needed to make another top babyface, and felt he had to go all the way with it.
ReplyDeleteTito had said in an interview years ago that he was a candidate to get the belt if the WWE decided to expand south. He said that Bret got the belt since Canada was their target expansion area. He also had a LOT of criticism about Bret, stating that Bret might have been the champion but lost his family cause of infidelity, whereas Tito (who teaches right now) kept his dignity.
ReplyDeleteTito also kisses Hogan's ass a lot and says anyone that thinks he wasn't the greatest thing alive is a hater.
ReplyDeletethat may be true, but calling Bret out for infidelity is like calling out a single soldier in a war for killing someone. They ALL cheated. Maybe Tito was special that way, but 99% of them cheated.
ReplyDeleteA lot of those guys love Hogan just because business was booming. Honky Tonk man always said that getting that leg drop meant $10k in his bank account.
ReplyDeleteEvery single wrestler in the 80s and 90s will tell you how they almost had the belt or how they were set to work with Hogan. 99% of it is BS. Most of the time, timelines don't even match up. Two examples: Tatanka bitched about not getting the victory and the IC belt at WM9 because of the Kliq. ???? What Kliq at that polnt. And Matt Borne has a story about being prepared to wrestle Hogan at WM9. yeah sure.
ReplyDeleteWrestlers are carny through and through. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Even so-called honest books like Bret or Jericho's contain BS. Off the top of my head we have Jericho's story about Scott hall in WCW claiming to not know how to do a small package. Too bad that Hall did a small package at RR93 with Bret Hart. Or Bret's c claim that Hennig had never let anyone kick out of the perfectplex before he beat him. I have seen a couple examples on DVD alone of guys kicking out of the perfectplex before that match.
To quote Springsteen, "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear."
Papa Shango, I've read before. And then just again recently.
ReplyDeleteI was actually in line for the strap after Warrior... Granted I was 14 at the time... and sure my mic. skills still needed work but I was over and, more importantly I wasn't a fucking matador.
ReplyDeleteWell said. A lot of these guys have delusions of grandeur.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Undertaker was on that list?
ReplyDeleteI believe Mr. Perfect was the other guy on the list...
ReplyDeleteDidn't Bret also mention the Tito thing in his book? I thought that was where I heard the rumor originally...
ReplyDeleteNot that it gives the story any credibility, since Bret's book was full of what he believed and not necessarily the truth.
I've been skimming through the WON from that title change and I can't find the fabled list (I think I got it from the Bret book, actually) but here's a few other 1992 tidbits from that one:
ReplyDelete"Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon were scheduled to meet regarding Hogan returning as an active wrestler toward the end of this past week. I believe the meeting did take place on Friday, but as of Monday we've received no word that any deal was consummated."
On the Steiners impending departure: " After seeing how they were handled, the idea appears to have been to set the stage for a heel turn after all since the company's idea if the Steiners were to have stayed was to have used Scott as a heel and Rick as a babyface, thus obviously splitting them up as a tag team. Both were adamantly against being split up, which didn't help any in negotiations. The two weren't going to ever be programmed against each other, because that would be stupid and unrealistic, but it was felt Scott had strong potential as a singles heel and Rick would have to remain as a comedy babyface."
Dave brings the snark via Backlund: "Bob Backlund vignettes continue to be awesome. The only downside of all this is with all this time invested in him, they're going to have to push him."
More snark: "Sid Justice Eudy is expected to get his release from Titan this week or was to have gotten it last week to make it legally okay for him to begin negotiations to return to wrestling. Best bet is Japan. And they'll be sorry as well."
The Godwinns debut! "A new tag team debuted as the masked Shanghai Pierce (Mark Canterberry) & Tex Slashinger (Tex Sallinger). Told Canterberry is pretty good although it's obvious it's him for his tatoo and Tex wasn't very good." No kidding.
"Mondo Kleen had a try-out on 10/1 in Columbus, GA before going to the WWF although nobody was impressed." He became Damian Demento there and no on was particularly impressed either.
Understatement of the year: "Finally got to see Watts wrestle. Athletically he's okay. He's not embarrassing as some notable sons of wrestlers have been. But he lacks inherent charisma and obviously is nowhere near ready for what they are pushing him into."
Man, Dave used to be SO much more opinionated back in the day.
How did we never get an epic feud between "El Matador" Tito Santana and Mantaur??? The WWF must have really hated money to let that one get by them.
ReplyDeleteWell according to Bret, Davey Boy was basically in a coma during their SummerSlam match, so it's possible he used his abilities to put Hall in a small package without Hall's understanding the move.
ReplyDeleteSantana getting the belt any time after his almost constant jobbing started in 1989 would have been foolish. I was stunned when he was placed on the Super Team at Survivor Series with Hogan and Warrior, and I was even more stunned years later when I saw the footage of him going over the Undertaker clean in 1992.
ReplyDeleteCasual fans didn't take him seriously after Strike Force broke up and he became Martel's bitch. It would be like Zack Ryder getting the title now. Nobody expects it, and it's never going to to happen.
For some reason, that reminded me of Seamus' first appearance on Family Guy. "I seen that shark. Sure, I only got one eye ... and I'd just been swimming in a pool with too much clorine ... and I didn't have my contacts ... but I seen it!"
ReplyDeleteIt was 91. I just watched the match on Youtube, as until you posted I had no idea it existed! Wow. Can't believe they actually filmed that loss.
ReplyDeleteHogan kicked out of the perfect-plex in 1990, but Bret tries to pretend Hogan doesn't exist.
ReplyDeleteBulldog was fired after Bret won the World Title.
ReplyDeleteTito pinned the Undertaker?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDi-3RqAJrE
(I wish I could find the match where Hogan actually screams "get ready brother" in setting up him missing the leg drop with Santana)
beefcake kicked out of it as well
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/l_0MUvNDTNU
ReplyDeleteIt's entirely possible that Hall was messed up on something and forgot how to do the move so Jericho had to walk him through it.
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing we have you around to remind us that he does exist in every post.
ReplyDeleteI used to be a mega-Hogan mark. I am sad what he has become, though.
ReplyDeleteI think the Texas Tornado did as well. It was rare, but it happened.
ReplyDeleteNothing wrong with being a Hogan mark.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Bret mark, but I still love Hogan's body of work.
Eh, if we're gonna believe everyone who trashes Hogan, we should also believe those who don't.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably kiss somebody's ass too if they singlehandedly made me rich.
Nailz, becase fuck y'all.
ReplyDeleteHighly unlikely. Everything I've been led to believe (and one thing that lends credence to Tito's story) is that the WWF specifically wanted a dependable, high-quality worker to hold the belt. UT was still a freak show and considered sort of out of the realm of the title at that point.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely. as several guys, Scott included, have stated before. the career of guys like King Kong Bundy was pretty much build on their program with Hogan.
ReplyDeletethat's the way I remember it as well. originally the Survivor Series match wasn't champion vs. champion but instead Shawn Michaels challenging for Bret Hart's belt.
ReplyDeleteat least the Nailz vs. Undertaker feud that never really took place doesn't seem to be a rumor.
ReplyDeleteThree piledrivers and an urn to the head = par for the course with Taker, lol.
ReplyDelete"Off the top of my head we have Jericho's story about Scott hall in WCW claiming to not know how to do a small package. Too bad that Hall did a small package at RR93 with Bret Hart."
ReplyDeleteScott Hall was either a) fucking with Jericho or b) fucked up, real bad.
yep, you are right. That was the other one I was thinking of. If FG76 is right about Hogan, then that's three.
ReplyDeletebut the plan, according to Bret was for Bulldog to drop the IC strap all along. This was supposedly set from before Wembley, which would make sense because it the whole point of Bulldog winning in England was for the pop, not for him to hold the belt long term.
ReplyDeleteBoth Warrior and Bulldog weren't fired until after the title change. Bret got the title on Oct. 12, while both Warrior & Bulldog weren't gone until November. Vince may have decided that Warrior was too much of a risk (Warrior unstable? Ne-e-ver!), but he was definitely around for a few weeks after the change.
ReplyDeleteThat match was in Spain, IIRC. It was sort of like Tito going over in a hometown because he was like the only guy on the roster who spoke Spanish.
ReplyDeleteFor a second there, I was wondering when Sheamus started showing up on Family Guy, and if he made dumb Jewish jokes there too.
ReplyDeleteI think your right. I remember hearing Perfect was a possibility and honestly I'm surprised that they didn't pull the trigger on Perfect over Bret despite Perfect's back problems. Of course, Perfect hadn't turned yet on screen, though. If they went the Perfect route they could've had him go into WM IX as champion and have Bret beat him there. However, I'm of the belief that if Bret didn't win the title when he did that he may never have been champion.
ReplyDeleteHogan probably made Tito a ton of money from the houses and pay-per-views that Hogan drew so yeah, I'm sure Tito thinks he's awesome. I know I would.
ReplyDeleteIs there footage ANYWHERE of a Warrior-Ric Flair or Warrior-Razor Ramon match? Those are two combinations I've always wanted to see.
ReplyDeleteAnd they were supposed to have ELECTRIC CHAIR matches. I wonder how those would've been booked (I suppose like the Chamber of Horrors at Halloween Havoc '91).
ReplyDeleteI'm still surprised that they didn't try to put the belt on Perfect.
ReplyDeleteIf Tito WAS on the list then I really don't know how they would've sold him as a quality champion. I guess he would've taken on Bret's gimmick of wrestling everyone from Barry Horowitz to Yokozuna as far as defending the title. It shows how poor the roster was in 1993 that I tried to think of a top heel aside from Flair and I came up with NOTHING.
ReplyDeletePerfect v bret at wm9 for the big belt woyld have ruled
ReplyDeleteLOL. I see someone is going around voting down my posts regardless of content.
ReplyDeleteYeah I bet Warrior/Flair would have been an awesome match in 1992.
ReplyDeleteAnd no -- not unless there is some house show fan cams with it, it's never been officially released at least.
I've noticed that too -- he just *loved* to tear into Gorilla Monsoon back in the day as well. He absolutely hated him.
ReplyDeleteThe FABULOUS Hulk Hogan. Just doesn't quite have the same effect does it?
ReplyDeleteFlair-Warrior, handheld from '92.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrEfH1nUkCo
And there it is!
ReplyDeleteI wish I could get a hold of that tape, I could fix the wavy bent line issue with a piece of equipment I have.
I never got the Monsoon hate from the smarks of the era. Especially since all the smarks NOW seem to love both Monsoon/Heel teams (Heenan & Ventura) out of every commentary team in history. What the fuck was it about Monsoon that got their occipital protuberances all out of whack?
ReplyDeleteThe Tito thing actually all came from his book. He talked about it in his own book where he said that WWF was deciding whether to expand into Canada or Mexico. If they went north they'd pick Hart, if they went south they'd pick Tito. Obviously they chose Canada and Bret and Tito just lucked out. *cough*
ReplyDeleteYeah, if you look at the PPVs, his win/loss record is HORRIBLE. He's like 1-7 at WrestleManias or something, winning his first and losing all the others. I can't imagine him EVER getting a real push after being used as the Token Jobber for up-and-coming Big Guys (Warlord, Barbarian, etc.) and other heels (Shawn, Flair, etc.).
ReplyDeleteSounds like XPac heat has been replaced by Comdukakis heat,lol
ReplyDeleteHillbilly Jim always thinks "If only they went Mid West..."
ReplyDeleteIt all depends on how you describe Quality champion. I really cant ever recall Tito delivering a bad match, the dude was a very good worker. He always seemed over with the fans too. So he did have some Quality to him.
ReplyDeleteAs he was pretty much a jobber by 93, Im guessing if they put the strap on him, they would've played it up as an underdog thing. I think that could've worked for a brief run.
Ha...and Billy Jack Haynes was wishing the Northwest was in consideration as well.
ReplyDeleteI think that was actually an inside cradle that Hall did at RR93. He just didn't know how to do a small package.
ReplyDeleteI hear Damien Demento's still bitter they didn't pick The Inner Reaches of Your Mind as the next big expansion territory or else he would have been a shoe-in.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, most of those guys WERE told that stuff. You don't believe guys were brought into the company with promises of title runs and main event programs? Not even with those things being intimated to them? Pull the other one, son.
ReplyDeleteDynamite Kid has pretty much the same things to say about Hogan- "Shitty worker, but fuck if he didn't make us all richer" He even commented how he didn't mind that Hogan got limo rides and shit, because of all the business he drew for the boys.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember Beefcake or Tornado kicking out of the Perfectplex, and can't find footage on Youtube either, but Hogan (SNME I think) and Warrior (Survivor Series 1990) both kicked out of it before Bret.
ReplyDeleteTito probably would have been booked for a stronger reign than Mysterio's run with the WHC.
ReplyDeleteGood question! My sense is that they felt he was the worst about playing dumb and not acknowledging history and such, but clearly that was more of a company wide policy than a Monsoon specific thing.
ReplyDeleteJim Ross was also the gold standard at that point for announcers that could convey a match emotionally and also call all of the moves and I suppose Gorilla didn't always do that. Other than that, I don't know. He never really deserved the venom he received.
Yeah, I'd guess that there is probably some truth to this, given stories we've heard of Vince, particularly the Hogan/Bret saga in 1993.
ReplyDeleteSomeone must be reading the blog,lol. Courtesy of L.O.P.- WWE's former
ReplyDeleteMinotaur-like character, Mantaur, makes his return to the ring tonight
for Pro Wrestling Syndicate's "Fight Mare Before Christmas" event in
Metuchen, New Jersey, at SMG Sportsplex. The former WWE star, who is
generally retired from the squared circle, will face WWE Hall of Famer
Tito Santana (billed as El Matador) in a Special Attraction Legends
Match.
No Way!!! That's awesome. I guess the match-up was too obvious to be denied. They have GOT to do a spot where Mantaur starts running the ropes while Tito dodges him with a cape. Also, is it just me or does it seem like a stretch to call Mantaur a legend?
ReplyDelete