The latest Brock Lesnar First Run FWD got me to thinking, had Brock not left to chase his NFL dream, was the plan always going to be for him to job to Goldberg at WM 20? And where would he have went from there?
No, the plan was to put him over Goldberg because Goldberg was leaving and Brock was staying. But then it came out that Brock was leaving as well, and on much worse terms than Goldberg was, so Bill got to be the one to emerge the "victor" in that battle. I have no earthly idea where he would have gone from there, although I suspect it would have involved regaining the belt from Eddie at some point because JBL basically got it by default when Eddie couldn’t handle holding it.
Speaking of that Goldberg-Brock atrocity…
WWE Wrestlemania 20 - Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar... by WWETNAHDUploader
I remember reading that the plan was Brock vs. HHH at Wrestlemania 21. We wound up getting a pretty solid main eventer out of that show anyway though so I don't have many complaints.
ReplyDeleteI think I'll always be sore at Brock for leaving. For no other reason than I was a fan of his, I thought he was damn talented and think of how many great matches we missed after he left. Brock vs.Triple H, Brock vs. Edge, Brock vs. Orton, Brock vs. Batista, Brock vs. Eddie II, Brock vs. Shawn!!! Damn. That one hurts.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading that Brock was going to start "paying his dues" after Wrestlemania, and that he was going to be fed to the newly reDeadman Taker.
ReplyDeleteI still think taking out the crowd reaction and starting when SCSA actually gets them going, this is a pretty decent power match. Of course you can't and it's famous for what it is.
ReplyDeleteBrock was one of my favorites. Too bad he left.
ReplyDeleteAlso, this is another of my favorite train wreck matches (the other being HHH/Steiner)! BoD is on a roll!
Yeah, I remember that being the plan according to everyone on the internet at the time. Which makes me wonder if Brock would have visited a witch doctor, too.
ReplyDeleteYou're nuts. That match is GOLD.
ReplyDelete"WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!?!?" GOLD.
Atrocity? I much rather prefer your original description of this match, Scott - "bizarre sociological experiment". It's the only instance I can recall where the NYC crowd reaction was actually weirder than a crowd reaction in, say, Toronto.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, if it's true Brock was up for some "dues paying" following a win here, it's easy to understand why he left given that his childish petulant attitude is now well established.
Brock vs. Benoit, for the latter's newly-won title? Could have been a great 'Goliath; to Benoit's 'David'. But I totally agree: he had so many more good matches and fresh feuds left on the table. I'd imagine Brock could have been the guy to drop the title to Cena at Wrestlemania XXI (instead of JBL).
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I would have thought Brock would have been the one putting Cena over at WM21 (since JBL's reign probably doesn't happen if Lesnar stays). I wonder what happens instead of HHH vs. Batista in that scenario.
ReplyDeleteNot that the match would have been great or anything, but it's sort of a shame they never got to run Austin vs. Goldberg. As Scott said in 2003, when Goldberg arrived in WWE: Goldberg's value was in matches with Lesnar and Austin. Instead, we got Kane, Jericho, then HHH ad nauseum.
ReplyDeleteBest match of the night.
ReplyDeleteI really wish they would have ponied up and re-signed Goldberg for another year in 2004. They could have moved him to Smackdown and had him feud with Eddie and Angle and Taker. Plus it would have been a big name for a show that was lacking talent at the time.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading that too. Apparently it would have been one of those "lasts til Summerslam" feuds and Brock was set to lose every single match.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, if I'm signing a name as big as Goldberg, no way am I stuffing him on the tape-delay late-week show.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, MSG brings the goods every time.
ReplyDeleteThe fans are dumping all over the match in this video, and yet I can't help but think this must be the DVD release version that tones down how much WORSE they shit on it at the live PPV broadcast. I'll have to dig my live VHS recording out of a box some day.
ReplyDeleteCrazy that I'd still pay big money to see these guys go at it 10 years later.
It's fitting that Goldberg ended his WWE career the same way it started, with a dream match that was utterly shit thanks to endless stalling. Seriously, Rock/Goldberg was just as fucking awful, only without the crowd to make it the best kind of train wreck.
ReplyDeleteIf they didn't had wating for the fans to chant and if they had just startet a fast big brawl, it could have been a decent match. ;-)
ReplyDeleteGoldberg wouldn't have stayed any longer. They really wanted him to, but he hated the product and didn't want to be associated with it.
ReplyDelete"...and they absolutely gave her the business on the next RAW (and not in the way Edge gave her the business)."
ReplyDeleteHEY-O!
I was there, and yeah: we shit all over the match. The first part was, sitting there waiting for Goldberg, while they showed the pre-recorded footage of him walking out of the locker room, so the live crowd was going "what the fuck?" And then the match started...
ReplyDeleteI love this match. Seems like the crowd was trying their hardest to make them cry.
ReplyDeleteWow, that's a lot of Undertaker-Lesnar matches, considering they already met in 'Hell in a Cell' in 2002. I wonder how that feud would have played out.
ReplyDeleteHilarious opening. "YOU SOLD OUT!" It goes from the intense staredown to a "which one of us are they talking about?" look
ReplyDeleteSee, I think doing whatever is necessary to keep Goldberg looking like a big fish in a little pond is ideal - putting him on the same show where Trips is dominating and Shawn is showing everybody up is a bad idea, whereas (IMO) having guys like Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Rey, etc. helping him learn and develop would be the best option. You have the "Smackdown Six" as the work-horses, Matt Hardy as the entertaining mid-carder, some decent low-card action with the Cruiserweights, and Goldberg, Brock, and Taker as the big bruisers. I think that sounds like a hell of a roster.
ReplyDeleteThey feuded in 2002 *and* 2003. Brock had a LOT of "recycled" feuds in just two years - Taker twice, Show twice, Angle twice...
ReplyDelete"Creative" at its finest.
It's funny that a guy like Goldberg, who lived through the best and worst of WCW, hated 2003 WWE.
ReplyDeleteNot that I blame him...
At a certain point I think Goldberg felt he learned and developed all he needed to and just wanted to keep doing the same Goldberg routine. Not that I blame him, he's fresh out of wrestling school and can't do much, yet the little he can do gets super over.
ReplyDeleteI was salivating for another Benoit-Lesnar match after their classic on Smackdown. Sadly we never got one on PPV.
ReplyDeleteWas there a "We want Bret" chant early on, or was I just hearing things? Bet that pissed Vince off more than anything else.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I agree with Scott's review on this one. Once the crowd started doing the "This match sucks" chant Austin should have just gave both guys the Stunner and went on to the next match.
We got it at the house show in Edmonton. It was fucking awesome.
ReplyDeleteMan lucky. Must have been crazy too in Edmonton. The crowd must have been rabid. Brock and Angle had crazy good chemistry but I think had we gotten more Brock-Benoit matches their chemistry may have been even better.
ReplyDeleteI went to that ppv live and my main memory all these years later was a drunk kid shitting in a urinal.
ReplyDeleteMy people! Finally we meet. I'm the soul minority amongst my wrestling fan brethren when it comes to this match being entertaining as all hell. Knowing that both guys were gone from the company at midnight (in a manner of speaking) meant they could do anything with no repercussions. Like, for example, I'm pretty sure Lesnar didn't plan on flipping the crowd off when they were going over spots in the back. Some have called it a train wreck with a lively crowd, but I feel it's much more than that. It's two big, angry, jacked up egos colliding with the most over guy in history refereeing.
ReplyDeleteI'll watch it every couple of months just t hear the "goodbye song" chants.
I totally agree with you, and I guess I should have been more clear in my previous post - it's not that I think Goldberg needed to completely relearn how to put a match together (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), but I think Angle/Benoit/Eddie could have helped him adapt his usual "five-minute" style to fifteen minutes.
ReplyDeleteEven if it was just Angle putting him a submission hold for a minute, only for Goldberg to power out and reverse the hold into a powerbomb or something, I think they could have helped him learn how to take his power-based gimmick and apply it to different situations.
Oddly enough, the tape that I had originally recorded "WM20" on was defective, and basically only gave me one audio channel - I have no commentary for most of the event, but all of the other audio is present.
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of cool to just listen to the audience and really hear where crowd-heat peaked and vallied. ESPECIALLY in that match.
Maybe Batista gets Taker instead of Orton?
ReplyDeleteSounds like an interesting way to take the show in. Here was a show I still think only had three interesting matches (Rock 'n' Sock/Evolution, Lesnar/Goldberg, the triple threat main event... I didn't even care for Eddie/Kurt Angle), yet they somehow stretched it out to FIVE hours. I need to re-watch that tape again. Also, I still say throw out there Lesnar vs. Goldberg in 2013/14 just to see what happens.
ReplyDeleteBrock going over Goldberg at WM20 and then doing another run as monster heel could have been great. Perhaps he takes Kane's place as Benoit's challenger at "Bad Blood"? Or, as SK mentioned, he probably takes the WWE Title back from Eddie once he could no longer handle it. Brock vs. Cena at WM21 could have been really cool alongside Batista-HHH. JBL could have had a long US title reign instead.
ReplyDelete