Hey scott love your stuff and you've answered my questions before so hopefully you can help me out with this stuff
1. A lot of guys work stiff in the ring, in your opinion who is the stiffest worker of all time?
The guys back in the old days were so stiff that they make Davey Richards look like El Gigante. Especially the "policemen" that promoters would keep around to make sure people knew who the boss was. In the modern era, probably someone like Vader at his worst in WCW would probably take the prize, although various Japanese tough guys would beat the hell out of each other for fun.
2. I was just reading a piece by you and you mentioned that the WWE was really interested in only Perry Saturn and didn't care either way wether they got the other 3, my question is, had they ever watched WCW before? Benoit, Malenko and Gurerro were clearly all better workers and while only Eddie was a decent mic worker it's not like saturn ever cut a decent promo or was an outstanding worker other than his ECW days from what I remember. Who in WWE wanted him so bad? It's like looking at The Beatles and coveting Ringo Starr.
I dunno, WWE has weird qualifications for what they consider to be a star look sometimes. Benoit, Guerrero and Malenko are all much smaller guys so it's almost understandable that they'd look at Saturn compared to them and see a bigger star. It's not like they didn't know who the others were or anything, but they just didn't see any value in them.
3. Do you feel that we have a legitimate chance of seeing Stone Cold Steve Austin return to the ring? If so, other than the obvious choice CM Punk, what superstar could you see him working a program with?
No chance. Austin still makes "fuck you money" every year off royalties and merchandising, and there's zero chance he's coming back. He's happy making shitty movies and doing whatever he does in the jungle with his truck and gun collection.
4. Of your books, which do you feel is your best?
Tonight...In This Very Ring sold the most by far, so we'll say that one.
No one should ever say a bad thing about Perry Saturn. With his leg sweep, you could easily clear the 100-man Rumble mode in WWF No Mercy.
ReplyDeleteWill you ever write another book, Scott?
ReplyDeleteHopefully its not as depressing as Dungeon of Death... I felt like a Von Erich after reading it.
ReplyDeleteFor the Kindle, maybe. I have no desire to deal with print publishing again.
ReplyDelete"The guys back in the old days were so stiff that they make Davey Richards look like El Gigante."
ReplyDeleteI take it that you haven't seen Richards' most recent work, where he's throwing Kawada kicks and headbutts that just barely make contact. Between that and his no-selling and total lack of mic skills and charisma Richards has easily surpassed Jeff Hardy as my least favorite wrestler. Come to think of it, Hardy ranks #3 after Richards and The Miz, (and maybe somewhere in the #5-6 range if you want to throw Zack Ryder and Brodus Clay in the conversation), but that's a whole other topic...
richards finally learned to work.
ReplyDeleteThe Beatlez
ReplyDeletePerry Saturn - Ringo (from what the e-mailer said)
Dean Malenko - George Harrison. Perhaps more respected by his peers than the others but always understated. Only had a couple of bonafide hits.
Eddie Guerrero - Paul McCartney. Even though his counterpart (Benoit/Lennon) gets more adulation, he may actually be the bigger genius at his craft. Beloved by all.
Chris Benoit - John Lennon. Both excellent at what they did. Both killed by madmen
Oh, and I forgot...
ReplyDeleteShane Douglas - Pete Best
Are you sure you're not thinking of Eddie Edwards? They all kind of look alike, but I assure you, Richards has been regressing over the last couple years.
ReplyDeletewould sonny or nancy be yoko?
ReplyDeletewhile its true i cant tell th difference, if davey is throwing kawada-esque kicks and headbutts that barely make contact but still look good, then yes he is learning to work properly.
ReplyDeleteI think Paul is terrible...but yeah, not bad.
ReplyDeleteOhhhh no, they don't look good. They don't look good at all. To be fair though, if the WWE production was taping those matches than it wouldn't be so obvious how crappy it is. Still, Richards is fucking terrible, and he just makes all us indy geeks look stupid, like if you say the words "I" "like" "ROH" in the same post it's assumed you cream over his matches (not necessarily here, but on any other wrestling site). Really now, he's been called by a lot of people the best worker in the biz. Well, if he's such a great worker, why hasn't he moved up to the bug leagues in the 15 years or so he's been in the biz? He's so shitty that even TNA doesn't want him, and they hire people from Survivor or whatever garbage reality show that Jamie or Jessie or whatever the fuck his name is from. Davey Richards sucks.
ReplyDeleteAwesome... so he went from an non selling meathead to a pnasy who throws kicks like RVD throws punches....
ReplyDeleteGreat.
Wings?
ReplyDeletein hindsight the stiffest worker was probably kanyon
ReplyDeleteOf course. WHO BETTAH?
ReplyDeleteNope.... The Yet-AY!
ReplyDeleteSlight variation of number 1: does everyone separate stiff workers from sloppy workers in your opinions? From what I've read, Vader'd be stiff because he was just as happy if you give back whatever he gave you; sloppy being Goldberg-kicking-Brett type stuff.
ReplyDeleteIt's like looking at The Beatles and coveting Ringo Starr...in a world where John Lennon goes apeshit on Yoko and Sean before doing himself in, and Paul McCartney had a massive heart attack the day before his biggest concert of his career at Wembley Stadium.
ReplyDeleteRon Jeremy.
ReplyDeleteAnyone man wrestled Trish was probably the stiffest!
ReplyDeleteGoldberg kicked Bret so hard he added an extra T to his name!
ReplyDeleteI can't like this enough.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Chyna?
ReplyDeleteOn the upside though, no more Frog Chorus!
ReplyDeleteOh, Tag!
ReplyDeleteA noose.
ReplyDeleteTOO SOON!
ReplyDeleteToo noose?
ReplyDeleteToo Shay
ReplyDeleteIt's not like WWE is one collective brain. I'm sure Saturn's physique and look got attention from the people like Vince who value that over workrate, but I'm sure that guys like Ross and Cornette were salivating to get Eddie, Benoit, and Malenko into the company.
ReplyDeleteThe talent was probably divided on it. The established guys were probably happy to have new guys to work with, but the midcarders and lower tier wrestlers probably just saw four guys who were going to get tv time.
Eh, I think there's a fair amount of hindsight going on here. Using WWF logic circa 2000, Saturn probably was the best bet for stardom. He had a cool look and could work various styles. Dean kinda looked like a high school teacher, Eddie still had the cruiserweight stigma attached and Benoit was still considered very bland. But once everyone had a chance to shine, the cream rose to the top.
ReplyDeleteScott, where have you heard this about Saturn? If they wanted to push Saturn so bad, why not have him go over The Rock instead of Benoit?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I asked this at another board, and they said that on WOL, Jim Ross specifically said he wanted Benoit, if he could have someone from any other promotion.
Moppy = yoko
ReplyDeleteI think the "no chance" on Stone Cold having one more match is a pretty silly response, to be honest. I mean, if any retired wrestler had fuck you money and a new career it would be The Rock, and the dude is back pretty much on a full time schedule for the next three months. Obviously Stone Cold is more banged up than Rock, but he's already stated that physically he'd be able to wrestle again if he wanted. I don't know— after watching that Austin-Punk promo for the video game (and yes, I know— they were trying to sell the video game) I definitely believe Austin was at least planting the seeds of a giant Mania payday match. Am I saying that I'd bet my savings on Austin getting in the ring again? Of course not. But based on the fact that Austin CAN physically wrestle another match, plus the fact that he has a dream opponent waiting for him, plus the fact that Mania will probably be in the Dallas stadium in the next year or two, combined with the fact that a wrestler with significantly more money/outside-fame came back when nobody thought he would— well, I don't think no chance is the best answer, is all.
ReplyDeletenot helping your cause there. . .
ReplyDeleteThat's actually not that fair of a comparison. Ringo was a damn good drummer and suffers in comparison to the other three only because they were so fucking great. Saturn is NOT as good as his profession as RIngo was at his.
ReplyDeleteRock didn't have his neck broken by Owen Hart either. . .
ReplyDeleteHow hard is it to publish to Kindle? As simple as typing, converting to PDF, and upgrading somewhere?
ReplyDeleteThe Saturn thing seems overstated. They had Benoit programmed with Rock on TV right away, gave him the IC title at Wrestlemania and WWF title matches with Rock again by Fully Loaded. Saturn hardly ever had a full-on program with anyone other than Eddie briefly. Personally, I think the best application of Saturn would have been in a permament tag team with Malenko, once Eddie & Benoit were taking off. That tag division was tremendous already, but those guys could have had great matches with everyone.
ReplyDeleteDid Dan Gilbert send this email?
ReplyDeleteDon't even have to convert to PDF. You type up the Word document, save as HTML, and upload it to the Kindle site with a cover picture if desired. Boom, you're done.
ReplyDeleteOh totally— I realize that Austin's health situation is far different than Rock's. But again, Austin has been quoted as saying he'd physically be able to wrestle full-time if he needed to, nevermind a single match.
ReplyDeleteQuote: http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2011/0407/538382/steve-austin/
Austin, as far as I know from reading his own quotes on the matter, isn't in the same situation as Edge where his health totally rules out a match.
I'd buy something in the vein of Tonight... covering a more recent time period. Ranting/History lessons/wrestling recaps rolled into one.
ReplyDeleteWasn't the famous line by HHH on Benoit that "he is a good hand who could be carried to a good match"? I wonder if he changed his tune after they wrestled at the first Smackdown after the radicalzzz came in.
ReplyDeleteI think comparing the Radicalz to the Beatles is a bit much. A better comparison might be the Who. Well-respected band, but gets left out a lot in "greatest bands" talk. Although it's a hard call with the Who on who was the best and/or most important. They all contributed so much to the band. With the Beatles, Ringo clearly is the least of the 4, but with the Who...I can't say. Maybe Entwistle, but his bass is so absurdly better than most people that he is regularly considered one of the best ever at bass... So using the Who doesn't quite work either, but it's better IMO.
ReplyDeleteEach part of the Who made the Who into what they are. Ringo could have been replaced by a small ego good drummer, even though I think Ringo was exactly what the Beatles needed (a small ego but good drummer) at the time.
I think RVD would also qualify in the sloppy-stiff category.
ReplyDeleteI hope Austin never wrestles again, but that's purely selfish because I was there live for his last match in Seattle.
ReplyDeleteAlso it would be scary the same way the Shawn comeback was scary at the start. I'm not interested in seeing guys cripple themselves.
Lol, of course she doesn't like The Beatle.
ReplyDeleteWtf I thought you were supposed to be somewhere else by now.
I don't know. Band on the Run, Jet, Live and Let Die,
ReplyDeleteThree massive hits that are still played liberally on the air today from a band that really only existed for about seven years.
The only reason they don't get more love is because they're compared to the greatest band of all time.
I'm reminded of the Lennon quote where they ask him if Ringo is the best drummer of all time and he replies "He's not even the best drummer in the band!"
ReplyDeleteFrom what I understand basically all of Sgt. Peppers and Abbey Road is Paul on drums.
Paul drummed on a handful of White Album tracks (Back in the USSR and Dear Prudence most notably) but that's it. Ringo did (well, at least is credited as doing) all the drumming on Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road I believe.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, that Lennon quote has always been a favorite of mine...
I always hear people say they were only interested in Saturn but I think it was pretty clear even on the first Smackdown they debuted that Benoit was their guy. He wrestled in the main event of Smackdown against Triple H, when the McMahon-Helmsley regime wanted to punish Rock they put him in a cage against Benoit, against Benoit in a singles match in which Benoit beat Rock. Benoit had the higher profile match at WrestleMania winning the IC title. Then Benoit went on to feud with Jericho, headlined Fully Loaded. I thought it was clear from the beginning that Benoit was their guy.
ReplyDeleteI never heard that line, but it just sounds crazy.
ReplyDeleteI'm a huge fan of Dean but he has one of the weirdest bodies I've ever seen. He's in shape but his legs are so small that they make it seem like he has a pot belly.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking he'll be back for Wrestlemania 30. I bet we get one more Michaels match at WM30 too.
ReplyDeleteI thought he was up there as one of the best in 2009-2010 but he has severely regressed since then as others have said. As you can tell by my name I was a big fan of him and the american wolves tag team. But since he won the title he has gotten worse. I've only kept the name because I like it lol.
ReplyDeleteToo Cool! *dances* You look flyyyyyyyy today!
ReplyDeleteThat Saturn thing doesn't sound right at all. Maybe plans changed (as they often do) but Benoit was the guy making HHH tap out when the group made their debut on Smackdown. I mean the ref was out and HHH ended up with the W but Benoit was made to look like a leader of the group right off the bat.
ReplyDeleteWas that a change of plan, or did HHH actually step up because he recognized something in Benoit?
As for stiffness: Regal. Finlay. Broken nose.
Haha. No idea, but that would be a hilarious Hunter-ism if true.
ReplyDeleteSaturn & Tazz could have been a cool tag team in that 2000-01 tag division
ReplyDeleteI don't have any interest in seeing Austin return to the ring. Unless it was Cena turning heel and spending the next year berating Austin, until he comes out of retirement to beat some ass. But that doesn't really do anything for anyone, outside of one big buyrate either. Maybe worth it for Wrestlemania 30? Cena's not going heel though, so I guess it would be the Cena-Rock style build.
ReplyDeleteAgreed 100%
ReplyDeleteEvery time this Saturn thing comes up I ask where it's coming from because it just makes no sense with the relative positions of the guys coming in (Benoit was WCW champ technically) or with what happened subsequently (Benoit was given multiple title shots in short order, Guerrero the IC title)
It was likely made up, like a lot of rumors are.
ReplyDeleteI believe what happened was, they wanted Saturn so badly that he called all the shots and made those things happen. He told them he was a package deal with the other guys so they were all hired. While, Saturn personally didn't want the pressure of being an uppercarder, he knew how badly Benoit wanted to be there so he wrote a clause into his contract that promising that Saturn would be relegated to the Hardcore division (with a possible European title run) while Benoit got a big push right away and Eddie would receive one later down the line. He also ensured Dean a lifetime job as a road agent after his retirement. Saturn was also a vocal fan of the Chavo Guerrero 'Pepe' angle in WCW, so he dictated that he be allowed to run his own inanimate sidekick angle when the opportunity presented itself. His last demand was that if he should ever rough up a jobber, he would receive a stiff receipt in the ring from two of the toughest guys on the roster, because Saturn likes it rough.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind this is the WWE. If they get Austin back for one more match, they'll make it a "showdown dream (re)match between two of the greatest WWE superstars ever" and book him against HHH.
ReplyDeleteOf course it's a fair comparison. The guy's finisher was "The Ringo of Saturn"
ReplyDeletehow bout ric flair having "one more match?" / sarcasm
ReplyDeleteThat's why I went with Finlay and Regal. Both guys loved making matches look real and going old school. Those Regal vs Benoit Velocity matches were incredible.
ReplyDeleteRight, cause lennon never said things just to take the piss out of someone.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Benoit was tabbed as the #1 guy. I get that he was a bit short and not that charismatic but the dudes ring work was trancendant. I can't imagine vkm not seeing money there. And even though chris took lots of pinfalls on his way to winning the whc (when the WHC was worth more than the wwe belt) he was always pushed as a big deal.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. If nothing else, the fact that it's been almost a full decade since his last match should tell us a comeback is VERY unlikely. Has anybody ever had 10 years off between singles matches?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I wonder if there's any chance of Austin doing another season of Tough Enough. That show was shockingly good with him in charge.
ReplyDeleteAnd, forgive me if everyone knows this, but did Perry Saturn ever come out of hiding?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y63N6odw-vo
ReplyDeleteDid a shoot about a year ago
Big Bully Busick might give him a run for his money. People used to tap out in fear when he locked on his finisher.
ReplyDeleteAwesome, thanks!
ReplyDeleteWhoever leaves the Who out of "greatest bands" talk should stop listening to music.
ReplyDeleteI could see them pushing Benoit due to him being the best worker and biggest name, while seeing Saturn as the guy they can mold into something down the road. But there isn't a lot to support that. I don't recall Saturn ever getting much of a push.
ReplyDeleteReally unfamiliar with Wings...couldn't name a song to be honest. I just think all of the Paul penned Beatles songs are the worst, and Ebony and Ivory is atrociously bad.
ReplyDeleteTBH I'm not much of a Beatles fan at all, I get they're influential and shit, but none of their music is stop what you're doing to listen quality for me.
Good god, I actually have to agree with whatever-he's-calling-himself-this-month. Wings is solid, but compared to Paul's previous gig...
ReplyDeletethen who is Stuart Sutcliffe?
ReplyDeletehis previous gig was solo work. McCartney & Ram. Check 'em out, if you're a fan.
ReplyDeleteyeah but he was cock-eyed.
ReplyDeleteis that the interview where he states he could go for about 2 years at or around full-time if he really wanted to? that got me kinda excited, but I don't see *that* happening. maybe 1 or 2 one-offs, however :D
ReplyDelete/fingers crossed
Yes, yes, that's right of course. I knew using that word might bite me in the ass.
ReplyDeleteAnd an extra "n" to Hennig's!
ReplyDeleteAlways thought the same - the two pitbull-esque badasses just suplexing the shit out of everyone? FUCK YES!
ReplyDeleteTry... Back In The USSR, Helter Skelter, Birthday... actually, 'The White Album's Paul selections are probably his best stuff.
ReplyDeleteWings: Live And Let Die. That's the good song that they did.
...Ricky Steamboat maybe? Tough to say, with the independent scene.
ReplyDeleteI agree.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be surprised if they had originally planned big things for Saturn, but they may have also felt that he could only attain true stardom if he went through the "tear down and rebuild" process that Vince likes to use with outsiders. Benoit, on the other hand, may have been more ready to fill that "Chris Jericho" role of part-time main-eventer, while waiting for Saturn to basically complete his transformation.
Or maybe Vince wanted Saturn, but Rock and Trips convinced Vince to push Benoit instead. Who knows?
Art Barr?
ReplyDeleteRingo wasn't Bonham, but who was really? Just the best drummer in the area(maybe the country?) when the beatles were looking for a drummer.
ReplyDeletePrecisely. A couple of no-nonsense tweeners that just like to get in fights. As heels/tweeners, they could brawl with the Dudleyz and APA, beat up the Hardyz and Too Cool, and as faces they could chase Edge & Christian. The E&C schtick would be pretty funny when they make fun of Tazz & Saturn as stoic brawlers.
ReplyDeleteThey never really did anything with Tazz or Saturn, so it's not just fantasy booking nonsense. Easily could have happened.
ReplyDeleteI still don't buy the Saturn story. In their debut matches, you could clearly see the pecking order and how they saw each individual person. Benoit got the biggest match against the established main eventer (Triple H), Saturn and Eddie got the match against the over tag team (New Age Outlaws), and Malenko got the match against the over singles competitor (X-Pac). If Saturn was the one they were after, they clearly would have booked him in the highest match on the card. Even the post-debut booking made it obvious that Benoti was the one they viewed as the main eventer.
ReplyDeleteIt's just not my type of music.
ReplyDeletewhere you been at midcard?!
ReplyDeleteWell played, sir.
ReplyDeleteThat's cool.
ReplyDeleteI can't stand most of Paul's solo work, myself. Yes, WINGS had a handful of decent tunes, but as John once said, Paul wrote mostly "silly love songs," and many of them (lyrically speaking) ended up being quite trite.
ReplyDeletehowever, Paul is the superior musician, by far.
And Phrederic, check out Rubber Soul, Revolver, Abbey Road, Sgt. Pepper (if you have the time, start to finish) and see if you feel a bit differently. As a huge Beatles fan (I was in a tribute band for a while...ack!), their radio songs even bore me a little nowadays.
Punk has already been sprinkling promos with digs at Austin. It is coming. Austin has said he would come back for the right opponent that he would feel safe working with.
ReplyDeleteI've heard a lot of Beatles when I was younger, it's just too boring for me.
ReplyDelete...That was brilliant, and it had me going there for a second.
ReplyDeleteI can see that they thought Saturn would be a bigger star for them than he was, maybe as big as Eddie eventually was compared to Benoit, but I don't buy this notion that he was the big acquisition. Benoit was the WCW Champ by then and clearly had the biggest star power coming in.
to each, his own. what is more your style of tunes?
ReplyDeleteBig into orchestral stuff, though not really a baroque guy, more romantic and modern when it comes to "Classical" music.
ReplyDeleteAs for modern/pop music? There's very few genres I can't stand, but for a run down: power metal, most rap, drum n' bass, hard rock, symphonic metal, pop jazz (Fiona Apple and her ilk) even a lot of straight electro-pop.
Yet again, Beatles are just the wrong decade for me.
quite the eclectic mix! cool deal ~
ReplyDeleteGod bless the internet, cause buying music would force me into prostitution.
ReplyDelete