I know WM23 was supposed to be Cena v HHH 2 and fell through. What I don't get is why they went face v face in that instace. I know its been done, but this seems different, without the torch passing of 6 or the inevitability of 17.
I think it was because
a) The direction was roughly moving towards a Cena v. DX storyline.
2) They needed someone who people who would buy in the main event of a Wrestlemania.
c) They wanted a great match.
Shawn meets all of those criteria. It remains the highest WM buyrate in history so obviously it worked fine.
I didn't know "2" was the second letter of the alphabet.ReplyDelete
I didn't know it was originally supposed to be a Cena/HHH rematch. Did the original. Do a strong buyrate at WM 22? I remember not liking it but its been awhile.ReplyDelete
It was a very good main event, but I think that it was the most forgettable main event in WrestleMania history.ReplyDelete
I never got why people praise Donald Trump for the success of WM23. I can accept Mr T and Mike Tyson having a lot to do with the success of their respective WM's, but Trump?! I think WM23 did just fine because of the strong Cena/HBK and Taker/Batista double main event.ReplyDelete
Not disputing it, but there's been more forgettable main events.ReplyDelete
I can only assume that HHH originally agreed to put Cena over at 22, so long he returned the job for 23 and then they could do the big rubber match, much like the HHH/Brock feud.ReplyDelete
I was at the event. I think that Taker/Batista was the best match on the show. It was the best built as well. It was on the cover of WWE magazine. It was the Rumble winner vs. the World champion. The match itself was just awesome. The two had great chemistry.ReplyDelete
I felt like HBK vs Cena was just rushed. It seemed like they panicked then through Michaels in there because of his reliability. It was a strange PPV with BOTH major title matches featuring face vs. face.
Well it wasn't so much Trump but Trump vs. Vince. And this was before everyone realized just how much a cockbag "The Don" really was.ReplyDelete
But I think Cena and Michaels contributed to the buyrate enough. It was certainly a match that had never been done before.
For awhile there the Wrestlemania Main Event had to feature Triple H. You know how we know in January the Royal Rumble will have a 30 Man Battle Royal? Same idea. Triple H is in the Main Event and we'll build the rest of the card around that.ReplyDelete
They should have let Shawn win, have a Wrestlemania moment, and then drop the title back either at the next pay per view or that 60 minute Raw match they had. It'd be nice to see Wrestlemania end with something other than John Cena smiling while fans who paid money to see him lose are beside themselves with anger.ReplyDelete
Then you are disputing it.ReplyDelete
Yeah, the only story behind the Michaels/Cena match was that they won the tag titles and there was this question about whether Michaels would turn on someone he was never friends with in the first place. He did.ReplyDelete
i'd name 'em... but i forgot :(ReplyDelete
I think it's safe to debate that more fans wanted to see him win than lose.ReplyDelete
Agreed. If he wanted a title run they might have put it on him but people say he didnt want the strap. It's a shane because he was banging out 4 star matches at every corner. I think that WM 23 match 4.5 stars at least. It's great.ReplyDelete
While the HBK/Cena match might not have any long term significance and had a pretty shitty build, the match itself I thought was great. Really glad we got that instead of a Cena / HHH rematch.ReplyDelete
Glad it was Cena HBK I was burnt out on Triple H constantly headlining mania and I think he'd of got his win back from the previous Mania which would of been the wrong decision.ReplyDelete
>It remains the highest WM buyrate in history so obviously it worked fine.ReplyDelete
That's disingenuous since the buyrate was credited to the hair v. hair match.
Cena was the right pick to win, and I liked how they gave him a year long title reign.ReplyDelete
Jobbing him to HBK would be pointless, especially since HBK never wanted the belt.
Congratulations, you got the joke.ReplyDelete
I'm pretty sure that if they just threw Trump v. Vince on there without any strong matches to back it up, it wouldn't have hit 1.2 million buys.ReplyDelete
I would have gone with A, 2 and D.ReplyDelete
For the prize, do I get one of those burgers?ReplyDelete
Cena vs Miz? Sid vs Taker? Hogan vs Bundy? HHH vs Mick vs Rock vs Show?ReplyDelete
I had stopped paying attention to wrestling in the fall of 05, (I had enough after Eddie died...who knew it would get much much worse) so I didn't get to see the HBK/Cena match until a few months ago, (thanks again YouTube) Even though I wished Michaels would have won that match, seeing it for the first time 6 years later, it was FUCKING AMAZING.ReplyDelete
It may also be the greatest WM main event of all time. Except for maybe the Steven Richards match.ReplyDelete
KEVIN!! WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY ROOM?!?ReplyDelete
Well done... you really are my favorite asshole! That didn't sound nearly as gay in my head...ReplyDelete
Didn't 28 pass the buyrate record or did that get revised?ReplyDelete
I just saw this match for the first time a couple weeks ago and it was awesome. Kept thinking they should have put the title on Shawn and then have him drop it back at the London match.ReplyDelete
The GOAT pulling out all the stops one last time to win his final title would have been such a good story.
Wasn't the main event supposed to be a Cena-Michaels-HHH triple-threat match, before HHH got hurt? That would have been a lot more interesting than what we got. And probably the only Reunion-era D-X match I'd have wanted to see.ReplyDelete
DID YOU EVER SEE SURVIVOR SERIES 2009? BC THAT WAS THE MAIN EVENT!ReplyDelete
28 DID PASS THE RECORD BUT PPL DONT ACKNOWLEDGE IT FOR SOME REASONReplyDelete
YOU'RE REALLY UNDERESTIMATING HOW POPULAR THE DON WAS BACK THEN. I KNOW. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE. BUT I'LL NEVER FORGET THINK THAT TRUMP COMING TO FEUD WITH MCMAHON WAS LIKE THAT GENERATION'S TYSON MOMENT. DONALD COMING OUT WAS A BIG DEAL AND THE HAIR V HAIR STORYLINE WAS INTRIGUING TO SAY THE LEASTReplyDelete
SHAWN ALSO PLAYED UP HHH/CENA'S STORYLINE FROM THE YEAR BEFORE WITH HBK ACTING MAD COCKY AS THE VETERANReplyDelete
But Shawn's quest for the title is a story - the veteran getting a title shot as a replacement and having to prove he still has it. Like Flair/Vader in 1993. Instead it's your typical John Cena wins and smiles story.ReplyDelete
That would have been pretty great but wasn't Shawn not only against a title run but a heel run as well?ReplyDelete
I can't remember if the match was great or not, but the build-up was shit. They're all faces, but two of them have a history of being dicks if need be. The two dicks have been best friends turned enemies turned best friends. There's all kinds of story-telling you could do their, but it came down to them bickering over a midget wearing their t-shirts.ReplyDelete
Shawn vs. Cena at WrestleMania 23 was so great. Their Raw match was better, but their Mania match was still a classic. ****1/2. Also isn't that match one of the longest WrestleMania main events ever besides Iron Man, WM 2000 and Rock-Austin?ReplyDelete
All I remember from that match is Shawn superkicking one or both on them as soon as it started.ReplyDelete
He turned heel for the feud with Hogan, he might have been able to be talked into something like this.ReplyDelete
It's a shame they couldn't because his one month heel run in 2005 was fantastic. I would have loved to see that HBK go up against Cena.ReplyDelete
It got revised downwards several notches. Trump is still the champion.ReplyDelete
I'm no expert but I remember looking at a log of buyrates and 22 did pretty good. I think in the 800,000 range. Way below 21 and 23--21 came in over 900,000 and 23 was 1.2 or however many. At least those are numbers I've seen a few times.ReplyDelete
HBK SCM HHH the second the match started. Cena's reaction was pricelessReplyDelete
Yea, and it was perfect. This was Cena's year-long plus reign where he was taking on all comers and all situations and winning.ReplyDelete
HBK was trying to prove he still had it, while Cena is trying to cement his legacy as an all-time great.
Cena winning was the right booking going forward, especially since HBK got hurt right after the match anyway, and even then, wasn't working a full-time schedule.
I liked the HBK v. Cena feud and match, but I just think implying it helped the buyrate isn't really correct, since that was all about the Battle of the Billionaires. I think if you stuck Cena with Edge or Orton, you're still getting the buyrate.ReplyDelete
I really don't like Cena-Shawn from Mania 23. It simply didn't gel for me, and at times it felt like they were on different pages. The Raw rematch was *****, but Mania felt about ***1/2 at best.ReplyDelete
It's weird, this does seem kind of 'forgettable' in the grand scheme of WM main events, even though it featured this decade's biggest star and Mr. Wrestlemania clashing in a 30-minute main event with a clean finish. Maybe it's just because both Cena and Michaels* have been in so many other high-profile Mania matches that this one kind of just falls by the wayside.ReplyDelete
That being said, I am so so so so glad we saw a special and fresh matchup like Cena/Michaels on the WM stage rather than a tired Cena/HHH rematch that no doubt would've featured the ugly finish of Triple H getting his win back.
* = moreso Michaels, since this match doesn't even crack his top five WM performances. (More a testament to Michaels' awesomeness than a knock on the WM23 main event, of course, since Michaels/Cena was still a great match.)
I think my biggest problem with the match is that early-on they worked a knee injury angle for Michaels, so he was hobbled the entire time. As a result the match was slow and sort of deliberately paced, with the only two spots I remember being a....piledriver on the steel steps, and a moonsault that I think started the knee injury angle.ReplyDelete
Just gave me a great idea of ranking every HBK WM match, and since I can't sleep, fuck it. I'll do it now.ReplyDelete
1. HBK/Taker 1
3. HBK/Taker 2
13. Rockers/Orient Express
15.Rockers/Barbarian and Haku
This really needs to be a DVD.
Did you forget the iron man match? Can't argue with any of these...I LOVED HBK/Cena and still do (think its a 4++++ star match), crazy its HBKs 7thish greatest WM match.ReplyDelete
Nevermind, just saw you had it 6th.ReplyDelete
It seems likke the main event was headed for Cena-HHH-HBK triple threat. Otherwise, who does HBK face?ReplyDelete
I guess I didn't!ReplyDelete
I flipped my shit when that happened.ReplyDelete
Not only that but they could've switched the title back to Cena in the 51 minute London Match; thus adding even MORE significance to that match.ReplyDelete
The plan was actually for HBK and Booker T to be Trump and Vince's surrogates for their match. Would've been a fun bout, plus Booker was killing at the time with the 'King Booker' gimmick.ReplyDelete
Interesting. Never heard that, but you're right, it would have been an interesting match that I don't recall ever seeingReplyDelete