Hey Scott --
This might make good fodder for the blog. It was inspired by an off-hand remark in an old Observer Meltzer made about the Rey Mysterio/Dean Malenko Cruiserweight title change which he said was the best match in the history of Nitro (barely a year old at that point), giving it ****1/4. Which begs the question: since the show is over, what was the greatest match in Nitro history. This? Or something else?
For that matter, what about the best Raw match in history?
- Joe
Best Nitro match for me was Benoit-Bret in the Owen tribute match, which I gave the full *****.
For RAW, either Bulldog-Owen, Bulldog/Owen v Austin/Michaels, or Two Man Powertrip v Canadian Chrises. All could be considered ***** depending on my whims.
For me, Raven/Saturn vs. Benoit/Malenko will always be my favorite Nitro match. Looking at it now, it doesn't quite hold up and surprisingly it was a lot shorter then I remember it.
ReplyDeleteBut I think I love the match because of perfect timing. I was switching back and forth from Nitro and RAW and I just happened to see Benoit/Malenko being malicious heels to Raven. Raven wasn't really a lovable character but his role as face in a peril was tremendous. For those couple of minutes I saw Raven get his ass kicked, I was rooting him the fuck on. He did great and Saturn, who was his mortal enemy at that point, showing up to defend Raven made it even better. I dunno, I really enjoyed the storyline more than anything and it definitely made the match a pleasant experience.
As for RAW, man, I really enjoyed HBK vs Cena in London, only because you KNEW you were watching something special that was going to be remembered for a long time. That match got Jericho calling WWE for a return.
From a technical standpoint, I don't think anything comes close to Owen/Bulldog
I watched the Austin/HHH vs Beniot/Jericho match on You Tube not that long ago and it is so freaken good. Like him or not you have to give Hunter credit for finishing the match with a torn quad.
ReplyDeleteAustin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho is possibly my favorite wrestling match of all time. The build, the timing of the ending, everything was just perfect.
ReplyDeleteI think Owen/Bulldog loses a lot with it's off-site commentary, and terrible lighting. Barel
ReplyDeleteI actually think that stuff kinda adds to it. Made it feel different than all the other Raw matches at that time.
ReplyDeleteThis one probably wasn't *****, but that Shawn-HHH match from December '03 (I think) for the World Title was a terrific match, and maybe their best 1-on-1 match ever.
ReplyDeleteCome on, I have to be the first one to say it? Melina vs. Alicia Fox.
ReplyDeleteI'd say their Summerslam 2002 match. It just had that gut-wrenching drama to it.
ReplyDeleteTrue, for some reason I didn't think of that one, that was definitely their best. The Raw one is probably #2 though.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I meant Christopher Nowinski and Jackie Gayda vs. Bradshaw/Trish Stratus.
ReplyDeleteVibrams Five fingers shoes has become our most popular models in the past year alone. The Five Fingers Vibrams with a thin, wear-resistant, breathable stretch nylon mesh style packaging, the entire front foot. You can search through some related words to our website. For example:Vibrams five fingers sale and vibram five fingers on sale. If you feel good, you can recommend these shoes to your friends, they will be attracted by this unique design shoes.
ReplyDeleteI think it's gotta be Shawn/Cena from London, doesn't it? I love 2003 HBK/HHH, Chrises vs Two Man, and have a real soft spot for the HBK/Edge street fight, but Shawn and Cena went 50+ minutes and it was awesome the whole time.
ReplyDeleteBest Smackdown Match: I don't know off-hand, but I bet I can narrow the list of participants down to six.
ReplyDeleteI agree Summerslam 2002 was the best, the Raw much was #2. Their Hell in the Cell match is actually pretty good the first time you watch it. It's the second and third times you see it that you realize how much they laid around towards the end.
ReplyDeleteWho was the 6th member? I know that Chris, Eddie, Rey, Angle, and Edge were 5 of them.
ReplyDeleteChavo
ReplyDeleteChavo.
ReplyDeleteI've watched RAW since the beginning... the best match I've seen is still Cena vs Punk. Nothing short of amazing, especially considering they've gone at it plenty of times before.
ReplyDeleteAs for Nitro, I'll agree with Rey vs Dean Malenko.
Ah. Thanks. Work and lack of DVD invention dictated that I didn't get to watch Smackdown that much after the brand split
ReplyDeleteJR screaming at the ref to get back in the ring and count, pointing.....one of my favorite moments by a commentator ever.
ReplyDeleteTough crowd. Maybe if you had said Patterson vs Brisco lingerie match?
ReplyDeleteI honestly wonder if the house show story with Ouellette is true, because all the pieces fit, and I'm not sure this would be the particular moment to lie and savage the Kliq given its an incident few people care about.
ReplyDeleteMORE ribs involving shit. What the fuck?
ReplyDeleteWhere did Scott rank Cactus Jack v Trips in 97?
ReplyDeleteWhat story was that?
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's the Edge/Rey vs. Angle/Benoit 2 out of 3 Falls tag title change from Nov. 2002... but there's a handful of others with those guys that were nearly as good. The Eddie/Edge No DQ match from that September was also quite excellent.
ReplyDeleteGiven the stories in the other shoots, I actually think they all fit together.
ReplyDeleteNash said the original finish was Oulette going over and he suggested not doing it and Oulette got angry
Shane says Oulette told Nash they couldn't run the town again if he lost
IIRC, Nash also says Oulette was going to kick out of the jackknife?
The only difference is Shawn riling up Nash a bit beforehand but all of that sutff sounds like it could have happened, and I wouldn't blame either Oulette for getting angry (a last minute finish change?), Nash for the suggestion (how would Oulette going straight over and kicking out of the Jackknife let them run the town again?), or Shawn for accusing Oulette of being a primadonna (hypocritical I know, but kicking out of another guys' finisher?)
Steve Austin's face after she said that was beyond priceless.
ReplyDeleteChavo with Eddie: AWESOME.
ReplyDeleteChavo w/o Eddie: Meh, or in TNA "GET THE FUCK OFF THE TV!"
Any takers for that 8 (or was it 10?) man tag team match shortly after the Radicals debuted and turned heel?
ReplyDeleteI'm going to meet DDP this weekend at a convention. I probably shouldn't mention that match to him.
ReplyDeleteIn all honesty, a LOT of HHHate (including a fair bit of mine, to be honest) comes from remembering what he WAS... yeah, he might not have been #1 in the world, but HE FUCKING BROUGHT IT during that era.
ReplyDeleteHart/1-2-3 Kid has to rank up there for the best match on RAW, too.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, any of the Brawl for All's.
Gunn/Dr. Death or GTFO.
ReplyDeleteYeah, no shit!
ReplyDeleteWait...
WWE had a period in May and June 2001 where their TV stuff was INSANE. The Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/HHH tag match, two amazing Austin/Benoit singles matches, TLC 3, the Benoit/Angle cage match. All sublime stuff, all on free TV.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this review, maybe I should watch it again this weekend... I remember it being a lot duller than it reads.
ReplyDelete(Or was I confusing it with someone else... that sadly wouldn't be a first.)
I'd like to hear Karl Oulette's version. I don't remember any part where he'd kick out of the powerbomb, just that there would be a schmozz ending. I'd also have liked him to have broken HBK in half. He deserved it.
ReplyDeleteHell yeah! Absolutely nuclear crowd, insane intertwined storylines, dat Kane return, only problem I have with it now is the bitter taste in my mouth over how they booked the Radicalz coming in. They were like the anti-Shield, they lost EVERY match.
ReplyDeleteFrom combining the stories, I get that Ouellette put together a good card and did the promotion, because of that, he didn't want to job to the Powerbomb. He wanted to go down to the Big Boot, so that he could get another shot down the road, and THEN job to the Powerbomb... which seems reasonable. I can see Shawn stirring shit and saying, "You're the champ, and everyone takes your finish."
ReplyDeleteSting/DDP is the first that springs to mind. Along with every Blitzkrieg match.
ReplyDelete''The interview starts with host Sean Oliver meeting with Douglas in an indoor pool at a hotel. This was a spoof of Douglas’s first shoot interview with RF Video, which took place at a pool.''
ReplyDeleteFuck that shoot.
My fav too brother. Do many examples in that match of what makes pro wrestling great.
ReplyDeleteRAW - Foley winning his first title
ReplyDeleteNitro - Goldberg beats Hogan
Those matches are what TV wrestling excels at doing: getting a crowd of people to elevate a match FAR beyond what it ought to be.
Which one?
ReplyDeleteThose are pretty good candidates for "biggest" match.
ReplyDeleteIt was filmed when Shane was working for ECW, about fifteen years ago.
ReplyDeleteI meant which shoot was Maffew saying "Fuck it." to.
ReplyDeletePlenty of actually well-wrestled matches have done the same on free TV. There's not a sliding scale awarding efficiency points to matches for getting great crowd reactions without the peskiness of actually being good. Those matches were huge world title changes- rarely seen on free TV- featuring some of the biggest stars ever. Of course they got huge reactions. That wasn't the question that was asked.
ReplyDeleteAustin's heel commentary- just shitting all over everything- in that Benoit/Angle cage match was fucking hysterical. I watched that match with my dad and we were dying.
ReplyDeleteHis commentary was great, agreed. I also liked how even fellow heel Angle was terrified of Austin and chose to climb over the cage as opposed to walk out the door because Austin was on that side.
ReplyDeleteYup, Cena/Punk is getting seriously overlookd here. If they didn't have one of the best matches all time prior to the Raw match we'd all be talking more about it.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the TLC match! But, yeah, that era of the SD6 is some of the best workrate on free tv ever.
ReplyDeleteThere was a run of Smackdown, specifically while Heyman was booking, that was some of the best wrestling TV ever.
ReplyDeleteThe most mind-boggling thing about that 2 out of 3 falls match is that it was the second match of the night for Benoit and Edge; they also taped a dandy little ten-minute three-way match with Eddie for one of the other shows.
ReplyDeleteI know that Heyman was booking when they did the Chrises vs. Two-Man Power Trip and TLC 3 matches; was he also booking during the Smackdown Six era?
ReplyDeleteFlair vs Mr Perfect loser leaves town? I think that was raw, might have been last episode of Primetime. . .
ReplyDeleteHe booked for almost all of the SD6 stuff, I believe; his last PPV was NWO03. That being said, he wasn't booking Raw so we can't give him credit for the two man power trip.
ReplyDelete"MY GAWD DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES!"
ReplyDeletePower Trip v Canadian Horsemen for Raw and Goldberg v Hogan for Nitro. The CM Punk v Cena from 2/25 match with Cena's WM main event on the line (when he busted out the hurricanrana) was the greatest singles match I've ever seen on Raw.
ReplyDeleteSmackdown - Austin vs. Benoit 2001
ReplyDeleteIt was like the third Raw. That match doesn't hold up to some later stuff from another era, but it's by far the best from that era (maybe only rivaled by Kid/Hitman). I just remember Rob Bartlett being completely silent on commentary just like, "Holy s#!t man, this is the greatest match I've ever seen!"
ReplyDeleteThe spring of 99 in WCW produced some odd classics, that's for sure.
ReplyDeleteNitro: Goldberg's matches with Raven and Hogan.
ReplyDeleteRaw: Hart/Kid until it was upstaged by Cena/Punk. Also love Yoko/Savage.
While we're getting into matches that may not be ***** classics/MOTYCs, but were all about the moment, crowd and reactions...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-koj9Uwdr4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWaEHmLDROI
Radicals and DX taking on Cactus Jack, Rock, Rikishi and Too Cool, with Kane returning at the end?
SO good that even Stephanie on commentary couldn't kill it.
Steph was pretty good on commentary there actually.
ReplyDeleteIf there's ever an article that The Masked Man should write, it's finding Blitzkrieg and doing an interview about the mystery guy of the Monday Night Wars
ReplyDeletePretty sure Bartlett was not impressed and just said that to save face. His reaction to the Flair flop is also very funny.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, it was as good as their MITB match IMO. Top shelf stuff with Punk hitting the "gasp" piledriver and Cena doing a Frankenstiener transition into the AA.
ReplyDeleteYes. Isn't that where TenGermans got his name from?
ReplyDeleteHe left later in 99 and became an accountant or something like that. It's not really any huge mystery what happened to him.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there was a pretty great Michaels-Jannetty match in there somewhere?
ReplyDeleteThe street fight? It was ****ish, great but not all-time memorable or anything.
ReplyDeleteCharacters, booking and crowd work make a great match as well. From a purely technical standpoint if we're looking there, I submit:
ReplyDeleteNitro: Benoit vs Booker, Best of 7 Match #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkjT0t-tDbc
RAW: Owen vs Davey, European Championship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FttUovSmya0
I got comped for that show and the tickets didn't get mailed to me in time. I'm still bitter about that one.
ReplyDeleteRock rock til he drops, rock rock never stop!
ReplyDeleteQuestion, where did you rank the Shawn-Mankind match that spawned DX?
ReplyDeleteDid they do the Hardcore Junkyard match on Nitro as well? I remember Finlay piledriving Regal or the other way round onto a car after a pretty hard-hitting match.
ReplyDeleteProlly the aforementioned RFVideo shoot. Botchamania has slammed Feinstein a couple times, notably for the Nick Patrick shoot where he basically ducked the Sting/Hogan fast count question.
ReplyDeleteThe one I was talking about in the post, the RF shoot in the pool that's almost inaudible.
ReplyDeleteThis lived up to the hype. The crowd was into everything they did.
ReplyDeleteHow hot was Stephanie then? Damn.
Wonder what happened to her voice between then and now.
Testosterone.
ReplyDeleteI remember the first time Chyna spoke and thinking, "Should've stayed a mute!"
ReplyDeleteSteiner V Bagwell
ReplyDeleteDo another "All Shoot Botchamania"
ReplyDeleteYeah, that was an awesome match. It was just a 1on 1 street fight that actually took place in the street between Regal and Finlay. Those two really brought it for that feud.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, could you imagine Shield coming in and losing their first PPV match to Tons of Funk and the Funkadactyls?
ReplyDeleteNot on television!
ReplyDeleteGeez, pay attention man!
Cena/HBK is my favorite raw match. It may not be *****, but its at least ****1/2. However, I believe it told a better story than the very few ***** matches on Raw, so its my favorite.
ReplyDelete"...the plan for the team was for him to be the workhorse and Johnny the personality..."
ReplyDeleteAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Johnny the personality... come on!
Was he working as Jean Pierre Lafitte? It seems kind of crazy to book the midcard pirate over the champion cleanly, regardless of them being in his hometown.
ReplyDeleteThe answer is always Shawn Michaels. HBK-HHH Dec. 2003.
ReplyDeleteWasn't really looking at what happened to him, but rather his experience -- he showed up at this crazy point in wrestling history, had some success, and then just left. He could provide a different perspective on WCW and also his thoughts on the current scene, especially considering the success of Daniel Bryan.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could upvote this more, that 1 month period was amazing. Angle-Benoit is my all time favorite cage match. German Suplex from the top, Diving Headbutt from the top of the cage! moonsault from the top of cage! That match never gets mentioned and it kicked serious ass.
ReplyDelete"He then goes on a rant about the government going after nickel-bag dealers instead of going after Big Pharma."
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU! But still, fuck Shane Douglas.
I got a lot of heat for knocking Owen-Bulldog, I'm also going to go ahead and say I felt Benoit-Hart from Nitro was very over rated. I think it is great they paid tribute to Owen Hart, but the match itself was very slow paced and just not that good, much like all of Bret's WCW work.
ReplyDeleteSo other than the Owen tribute, there were no matches above 4.25? Was that just how Nitro structured its show, giving the crowd short matches and filling in lots of NWO stuff?
ReplyDeleteBut the Radicalz won that match.
ReplyDeleteActually they won a lot. Three of them held singles titles within like 60 days and this was back when singles champions were booked strong.
Saturn got shat on a lot though.
Flair - Mysterio from the 99' Spring Break episode, and I still love the Flair-Jarrett title change.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the Punk vs Cena match was the real main event of Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteThe story I heard is that Oulette was supposed to win by DQ or count-out to set up a rematch where Nash would win. Montreal was a little different - I think in 1997 Jacque Rougeau went over Hollywood Hogan clean.
ReplyDeleteAnd actually it looks like he went back to school after the computer tech and became a nurse. University of Texas profiled him as a graduate with an interesting backstory.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/05/19/graduating_ross_jay/
Where the fuck does Carl Oulette get off refusing to job to Nash (or take the power bomb). OK he helped promote the show, fine. That's why he was even working the main event. And hey mid 90's WWF, maybe the reason your house show business sucked is you had this as your main event. (BTW Ive seen the pirate vs Bret match several times, its good. But I was watching then, and he wasn't over).
ReplyDeleteThat Benoit and Booker series was pretty damn good
ReplyDeleteSince Oulette promtoted the hell out of this show and sold a lot of tickets, they wanted to come back and do another match so they could make more money. A finish that made sense to have a return match was necessary in order for that to happen.
ReplyDeleteI must be in the minority of wishing he wasent on commentary for that match. Just took too much focus off the match. Same goes for the Foley/Funk match on raw. It was all about Steve and the match felt secondary
ReplyDeleteI get that but in all honesty if he jobs and then they come back and run Nash vs hall or hbk there is no way thats not a bigger draw in 1995. In any city.
ReplyDeleteIt is MIND-BOGGLING how much people sleep on Michaels vs. Benoit from Phoenix..
ReplyDeleteOulette, being from Montreal, was a draw there and they would pay to see him in a big match. It was only for business reasons.
ReplyDeleteI actually recorded that match and posted it on torrent sites way back when, and I rated it then and even now never ever****1/4, just a really slow opening act to that match will forever hold that back. What's the story of that match? Shawn's Raw match with HHH In San Antonio of Dec 03 is an easy trump to that match.
ReplyDeleteAgree.
ReplyDeleteMine is Shawn HHH from San Antonio from December 2003, for the simple fact that the strap was on the line, that storyline wise Shawn had no reason to win it,, and yet you got that "feeling" a couple minutes in (based on the psychology and the way the story of the match) that it was going to be Shawn's night, as they led the pace of that contest to have him be "one step ahead". It was a match that just could have been and should have been a cliche "babyface in his hometown has a shot at the strap but loses a close one" match, but it just sucks you in with the storytelling, spits you out with the ending, and leaves you absolutely begging for more. If I met a young kid who wanted to understand how to tell a story in the ring, I would give them 10 copies of that match and say "wear each copy out, even on DVD".
ReplyDeleteBeing non-title kind of ruined it for me, at the time, and jaded me on that match, knowing Shawn was gonna go over as he wasn't getting the strap.
ReplyDelete"Slow" is a subjective term. Tanahashi's greatest matches start out "slow". Michaels' greatest matches start out "slow". Not everything needs three flippy-doos and a handspring stalemate sequence..
ReplyDeleteAs was their second series. That dries may have even bee better
ReplyDeleteShawn/Cena from London for me. Sore point for me personally as they taped Raw on the Monday and Smackdown on the Tuesday both from the O2. On the toss of coin I decided to get tickets for the Tuesday rather than the Monday. Damn was I a fool.
ReplyDeleteI loved Angle/HBK iron man.
ReplyDeleteMy memory was that it was a DQ ending to set up a later match. Instead Nash kicked out of Oulette's finisher.
ReplyDeleteSeriously. Some of the ribs I hear about are whatever (some even over the line) but it all seems like stuff that I could keep my mouth shut about. But if I was a wrestler and someone pulled the prank like Shane did with the ticket taker I would try to beat his head in with a bat.
ReplyDeleteNot a total threadjack but I was mostly tuned out when Nash was champion (I was a Bret mark), does anyone else think Hall might have been a more successful champion than Nash? Hall was already a face and streets ahead of Nash as a worker.
ReplyDeleteWell, subjectively, I rate that match lower than a lot of matches because the portion before the first commercial break, nothing of note happens, it's wrestling, but nothing to draw you in,m no story or nothing that matters later.
ReplyDeleteI actually wasn't expecting Shawn to go over. I never read the spoilers, and didn't know it was gonna go 50 minutes. I expected it to end with Randy Orton or Edge interfering at some point early in the match, and then Cena or HBK would interfere in the match Orton and Edge were supposed to have to set up the PPV. I didn't think they would give a match like that away on free TV. However, the match kept going and going an going and never let up.
ReplyDeletewhat about bret/kid from raw '94? saw that recently on 24/7 and it was awesome
ReplyDelete'but benoit's went up to 11'
ReplyDelete'If Ross had stayed with the WCW,'
ReplyDeleteso apparently bret hart wrote the article!
I think this is it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nBtORGrwdU
Flair vs. Mysterio was a lot of fun for sure
ReplyDeleteYeah, that 10-man was something special
ReplyDeleteThat was the best stretch of TV shows, match-wise. Every week you knew you were going to see something special. It wasn't sustainable, but man it was awesome
ReplyDeleteA question I always had about that period: was Benoit going balls-out in all those matches because he knew he was already hurt and headed out for surgery? Or did he GET hurt doing all that crazy shit in May/June?
ReplyDeleteI rank this #1. It's everything I want my rasslin' to be.
ReplyDelete