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Forever Evil Discussion Thread

There was a little bit of discussion of the villains month and Forever Evil in the Flashpoint thread, but if anyone wants to talk about/review/bitch about the assorted Villains one-shots and Forever Evil, have at it!  I’m pretty disappointed thus far considering it was an intriguing premise coming out of Trinity War, although I should note Forever Evil itself is amazing after the first issue.  The villain stuff is a mixed bag, although I haven’t read all of them.  Creeper was terrible and a messy slog to get through, Desaad didn’t really make much sense to me, Count Vertigo was OK but covered much of the same ground as the animated Green Arrow short, Cyborg Superman was a totally different take on the character and was just him being evil for 22 pages instead of really saying anything about him, and Joker was a huge disappointment.  His aunt scrubbed him with bleach?  Really?  So far they’re a bunch of OK fill-in issues. 
Also, apparently Batwoman was cancelled.  (Edit:  Apparently JH Williams is leaving, but the book will continue.  Which is even worse in some ways.)  I was losing interest anyway, but this gets canned and Batwing doesn’t?  REALLY? 


  1. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonSeptember 5, 2013 at 12:55 PM

    "Also, apparently Batwoman was cancelled."
    Really? Didn't see THAT coming. I enjoyed some of it but I did kind of stop paying attention to it over the last vew months.

  2. I mis-spoke. Not cancelled, but Williams and company are leaving the book, so it might as well be.

  3. Are they waiting for another issue to show how they "Killed" the justice league, or was that in a one shot i missed somewhere?

  4. Apparently, the creative team got frustrated with DC editorial's constant changes in direction, which finally caused them to walk. It's been happening throughout the New 52 era.

    I keep telling them they need me on their editorial team. I should have CW send me a letter of recommendation.

    Where has he been, anyway?

  5. Hoping to get through more of the Forever Evil tie-ins tonight, including the main book. I agree with Scott on Creeper, though. Jack Ryder's introduction into the New 52 (in a previous Phantom Stranger issue) was actually kind of fun, so it was disappointing to see it take such a blah turn. I'm assuming he'll eventually be brought in to the JL:Dark fold.

    As I said in the Flashpoint thread, on my iPad I have Bizarro, Cyborg Superman (the new origin was teased in the last issue of Supergirl, and I'm kind of looking forward to it - though we may need clarification on whether the Death of Superman still happened, like they said it did a while back), Relic, Darkseid, Deadshot and Count Vertigo.

    Were there any other books that are worth picking up?

    Also, has anyone else read the He-Man/DC crossover? Wasn't expecting Constantine to have such a prominent role in the set-up. That was a fun read.

  6. Apparently he jumped ship to the We wish him the best in his future endeavors.

  7. That's what I get for getting consumed by work for the past week or so. I miss everything.

  8. SMH at the Joker origin...not sure if that's worse than Jokerface: the Gotham City Massacre in the New 52.
    How much do we see of Deathstorm (the evil Firestorm analog)? How is he?

  9. Did anyone read the Bizzaro book? I was moderately intrigued and it got a great review on Newsarama.

  10. It didn't get cancelled,the author wanted the character to get married, and the suits at DC said "eww lezzies are gross." So the creators quit.

  11. 1. Batwoman isn't cancelled. JH Williams is leaving but expect DC to keep it going because fuck you, that's why. Expect Gail Simones to be writing it and some generic artist drawing it

    2. Fuck you for hating the Joker special. While the flashbacks were stupid (but easily ignorable given the multiple choice hypotheses of Joker's origins) the main story was AWESOME. This is how Joker should be written......

    3. Cyborg Superman has potential even if it does wipe out even more canon

    4. Deadshot (who's origin is upgraded ala Guy Gardner), Two-Face, and Poison Ivy were awesome

    5. The Darkseid one was an affront to God. Way to completely fuck up Darkseid and completely miss the point of the character! Turning him into a generic Terrax The Tamer rip-off

  12. The only "internet shattering" thing from Forever Evil #1 was the bullshit Ted Kord and Ted Kord bashing from Geoff Johns. Did someone dressed in a Blue Beetle suit fuck Geoff in the ass as a kid, to make him hate the character? Or was he THAT bitter when Vibe got killed off like the d-lister he was that he vowed to make Ted suffer for taking his roster spot?

  13. You haven't missed anything; they haven't shown what happened right after Justice League #23 yet.

  14. The Nightwing crap was a crock of over-hype. No one in Nu-DCU gives a fuck about him being Dick Grayson. Everyone who MIGHT have given a fuck was killed by Barry Allen as part of the Flashpoint reboot and those who might give a fuck so as to torment him, have had their memories flat out erased because of Barry wiping out entire chapters of of their lives so that they never ever met Dick Grayson in any forms and developed any sort of vendettas against him (though in the case of Deathstroke, he already KNEW Dick was Nightwing, so his reaction would have been the trademark "DUH!!!!!" response).

    And hell, Batman Inc alone gives Bruce enough wiggle room to totally skate on people linking Dick=Nightwing to Bruce=Batman. ESPECIALLY since Flashpoint itself wiped out Bruce adopting/having Dick as his ward due to the hyper-compressed timeline making Dick in his late teens when he became Robin

  15. That is supposed to be addressed in the next issue and will lead to a "Earth 3" series

  16. I guess I may have missed it since I flew through the comic just now;but where was Ted? Most I saw was a passing mention where he wasn't even named.
    I guess I could maybe see your point of view if anyone was a huge fanboy of Ted's father, Thomas Kord, but I don't see how the theory of under-age rape could be apart of said hatred for the character.
    (which I won't even ask why, of all the possible things it could be, that your mind went in that direction....)

  17. Re-read the opening. Not only does he off Ted Kord's dad but makes a huge point of saying Lex was going to do horrible things to Ted as part of his campaign to wipe out the entire Kord family.

    And Geoff has shown, repeatedly, a deep seeded hatred for Ted Kord and a desire to bury the character in order to prop up his creation/replacement Jamie Reyes. He repeatedly stated that he has cockblocked people bringing Ted back "because it would be unfair to Jaime to have two Blue Beetles around" even though he himself revamped Green Lantern with ALL FOUR EARTH LANTERNS RUNNING AROUND, let alone did Flash Rebirth with Wally and Barry still around.

    Not to mention painting Ted as a villain in the pathetic Blue Beetle pilot he forced onto Smallville's final season and the fact that he, generally speaking has shown zero respect for the JLI era Justice League while going so far as bringing back freaking VIBE in Nu-DC and his Booster Gold run, which basically amounted to him pulling a "Baby May" in terms of doing an entire arc shitting on the idea of bringing Ted back. And him wasting a resurrection slot on several shit characters rather than bringing Ted back in Blackest Night, in terms of using the white lantern mcguffin to undo the wholesale slaughter of the JLI roster in terms of bringing Ted and Ralph/Sue back.....

  18. And the "did someone dress up as X and rape someone as a kid as the reason so and so hates X" metaphor has been around for AGES.

  19. Okay, then I did read that correctly then the first time (and 3 more times just to make sure before my initial post) and really saying that's Ted Kord bashing is really pushing it even by your lofty standards. Because if that's considering the bashing and hatred of a character than by your standards Johns hates a great deal of other characters much worse within the comic alone.

    And little aside, if Geoff Johns created Jaimie Reyes, why is he always credited as being created by Giffen, Rogers and Hamner?

    And so he has a deep rooted hatred of the character by nothing he's actually said, and if he hated the character why would he use him and show him in a respectful light while doing so? And if he's burying the character so much, why did he then have him show up at the end of Booster Gold 1,000,000 (to which he as well as Katz confirmed as being Ted Kord), while also allowing large obvious hints from Dan Jurgens that Ted Kord may just still be alive and alsohave him show up in multiple episodes of Batman: Brave and the Bold as this great man and hero?
    I won't speak of the Smallville ep since I stopped watching that show after like season 2 but care to share some links explaining the whole villain aspect as all I'm seeing from my searches and reading of synopsis that Kord was portrayed as someone trying to use the scarab's power for good (one of those sites featured a quote from Geoff Johns saying he's been a long time fan of both Booster and Blue Beetle).
    Speaking of not finding things, care to provide the source of the "because it would be unfair to Jaime to have two Blue Beetles around" as I've did a search for that quote and not a single place has that as an actual quote.

    And because Johns chose not to use a character that you like in a story over say a character other people may like doesn't automatically mean hatred of said character.

    EDIT: Omitted the final, "psychoanalysis" portion.

  20. Yeah, that's great, and I'm glad your mind went to child rape right away instead of all the other metaphors available.
    And really, I'm just needling you since that you decided to go with costume related child rape to help enforce your point.

  21. EaglesBecomeVulturesMay 21, 2014 at 3:03 AM

    So wrong.


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