Hey Scott,
Just curious, what's the deal with Smackdown nowadays? I keep up with wrestling through your rants, and it seems that not even hearing about Smackdown and what happens there means absolutely nothing to my ability to stay on top of what's happening at the PPV.
They have NXT for developmental, so is Smackdown just some glorified clip show now or something? Is it even still on the air?
I watch it on Hulu occasionally but it's pretty much designed to be disposable, because everyone is trained that only big stuff happens on RAW anyway. It is 100% skippable and a good chunk of the show is indeed RAW clips. So no, you're not missing anything.
Basically RAW rematches, or 6 man tags that from derived from tag and single matches on RAW
ReplyDeleteA somewhat inaccurate portrayal of the show. Anywhere from 5-7 matches, at least two of which are usually pretty entertaining. Storyline advancement is almost nada, yes. But for people who want a wrestling fix, it's still serviceable.
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking of cutting back on the wrestling and this thread may have given me the impetus to drop Smackdown. I already cut Main Event due to the baseball playoffs coinciding with Survivor and my inability to dvr more than one thing if I'm watching something. I find when wrestlers are wrestling I'm bored and doing a crossword puzzle, and only watch for the soap opera aspects anyway. Maybe it should just be Raw.
ReplyDeleteUsually has a couple good matches, but if anything happens of importance storyline wise they will recap it on Raw anyways. Really wish they'd feature people not on Raw at all that week like how Thunder used to do a lot of the time.
ReplyDeleteI have a whole month of RAWs, Main Events and Smackdowns DVR'd because of baseball. I've avoided the live threads because of this.
ReplyDeleteI'm kind of stoked to watch Goldust vs. Seth Rollins. I won't watch it live but I'll definitely hit up Hulu for the replay on Thursday.
ReplyDeleteI could watch iterations of the Rhodes Vs. The Shield and not get tired for a while.
I have no idea what to do with the Usos in this feud. I feel like that from a characterization standpoint, they are miles below the others. I don't think it's their fault, but I don't really understand their raison d'etre in this feud as opposed to everyone else who has been incredibly well built.
I really wish the Usos would cut a promo or two so I could decide whether or not I feel like caring about them. I assume they're just involved to take a pinfall.
I only really watch the Red Sox. I find the only sport I can watch when one of my teams is playing is football, with the exception of March Madness.
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd give Smackdown to someone, letting it spin off into its own world. Use the B-Team and get fun with it.
ReplyDeletefor a little bit there, smackdown was the fun bizarro world where Bryan vs. Orton was treated as a feud between those two, with each talking for themselves.
ReplyDeleteI'd like them to turn vicious; not heel as they get a decent reaction, but more serious. I'd just have them MESS UP The Shield to start the match to establish that they don't take any crap once the bell rings. They're looking like the Bushwhackers.
ReplyDeleteRiley got a DUI and stupidly told the cops that he worked for WWE instead of that he was an independent wrestling contractor. The fallout surrounding that basically sunk his career.
ReplyDeleteIt's not like he had much of a career anyways. He was over because he was put up against a guy who was just coming off a run as the #1 active heel in the company and Miz made him look like a million bucks with their wild brawl and letting him win the feud. He had no heat on his own, he just leeched off of Miz. Once the Miz program ended he had absolutely nothing going for him.
For the last question, Carlito had millions of chances and never gave a crap. No sympathy for him. Kennedy was injury prone, worked unsafe, got popped for drugs and had heat with Cena and Orton. Basically a template for how to ruin your own career. No sympathy for him either.
The most amazing thing was when Carlito and Masters were allies and were poised for main event stardom. They were in a huge Elimination Chamber match for christ's sake. Then each of them just kept spiralling further and further downward.
ReplyDeleteI must have missed this one of the most massive reactions in recent memory that Alex Riley received.
ReplyDeleteI seemed to be the only one but my favorite incarnation of Shelton Benjamin was when he had his Mama around. Otherwise, great talent but couldn't talk or cut a promo to save his life.
ReplyDelete1. Who?
ReplyDelete2. I just don't see any money in Sting at all. Most WWE fans are too young to know who he is, and most WCW fans have long ago moved on from wrestling. Doing Sting/Taker instead of Cena/Taker just seems like bad business to me.
3. I think Brock's drawing power is shot at this point. Have him job to Bryan and send him on his way.
4. I agree with Scott here, though Shamrock's tendency to work too stiff probably did him no favors.
5. Supposedly Shelton was thiiiiiis close to coming back to WWE earlier this year, but it fell through for some reason. If WWE is serious about a strong tag division bringing him back and paring him with Kofi or Evan Bourne or PAC (I forget his NXT name) wouldn't be a horrible idea. IIRC MVP asked for his release because he was sick of the brutal travel schedule. He's nowhere near on the level of RVD or Jericho or other guys that get part time deals, so he's probably not coming back. Carlito and Kennedy suck and had backstage issues, so forget about them. And yeah, WWE fucked Masters over pretty good.
Didn't Chris Masters lose weight because he got off the juice? Really changed his look and made him look average at best.
ReplyDeleteThe whole Lesnar deal has been messed up from the start with so few appearances. According to the reports from Meltzer when he first came back he was scheduled for 32 appearances a year. Obviously that was false and not even close. I know I was highly disappointed and then to lose to Cena right away wasn't the best way to bring him back.
1: Wasn't it him taking a Cena rib the wrong way? I'm not even 50% sure, but it's the only thing that popped up in my head. (Alex posted while I was typing... I'd go with his answer.)
ReplyDelete2/2b: Sting/UT at Mania XXX, then unless he embarrasses himself (possible) only let him in the ring with the BEST workers (Punk, Bryan, etc)... and if HHH wants to work with him, RUN. ;)
3: A lot of "fun" options (which in his case might be all that matters), but I don't see BROCK being a drawing factor at Mania XXX. I really don't see him "making back" his payday against anyone, even if Austin wanted to work with him.
4: Did he ever loosen up in the WWF? The stuff he did with Vader (among others) wouldn't fly at the tippy top of the card... especially with an injured Austin. (Angle + Benoit/Austin in 2001 notwithstanding.)
5: Carlito might have worked out, but after a couple false starts he seemed to quit giving a shit.
MVP could never get over much... but I'm seriously happy he's made it in Japan. Shelton... I know he was a bit weak on the mic, but he should've still been more than "Mama's IC Champ". Especially after HHH, of all people, put him over on RAW. (Countout, but Shelton was a green as shit rookie who would usually be seeing lights.)
And Fuck Kennedy. Even though his heel Aces run was fun, at least... he still sucks donkey dicks.
I agree, he did have cool music though.
ReplyDeleteSmackdown at one time was the way better show. Especially from 2001 through 2003. Even after that it seemed to focus more on wrestling and let Raw be the more entertainment show. Too bad what is has become.
ReplyDelete1. Dunno, but I thought that he had potential, and was certainly hot after the Miz break up.
ReplyDelete2. Sting/Taker is ok I guess, but in no universe should it replace Cena/Taker at 'mania. I don't think that Sting really carries much star power any longer.
3. Brock is done. Losing to Cena and the horrible HHH feud were problems, but what really kills him is that he's never around.
4. I think that they used Shamrock well. I think that he could have stuck around longer, but I guess the UFC was where he wanted to be. By the time he was done there, he was too old / batshit crazy.
5. Carlito and Kennedy stunk. MVP could have been more, but didn't fit into the corporate WWE world. Masters should still be around, I don't get what happened there, and I likewise can't believe that no one picked him up when he was saving old ladies from burning buildings. I have always thought that Benjamin lived up to his potential. Supurb athlete, but just didn't have that x factor to break out. I think that he could still have a spot as a tag guy, and it would be cool to have him for that, but that would be about it.
I miss those days. It was having almost weekly MOTY candidates for a brief spell.
ReplyDeleteRiley rubbed Cena the wrong way, allegedly. I think Riley flubbed something in a battle royal (maybe even the Rumble) if memory serves.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind seeing Shamrock back today as psychotic bodyguard/hitman. Maybe for Maddox.
They really dropped the ball on MVP. When he had the run with Matt Hardy when they went from rivals to sorta frenemies I just knew he was destined for stardom. Then, nothing. Plus I hated when his ring gear got less elaborate.
I thought that they were always set up as warm bodies to job to Cena in the Chamber, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteI've always heard that Riley used a pile driver at a house show and cena bitchedhim out aand had him buried. Also everything I've heard about taker for mania is that he's going over Brock.
ReplyDeleteNo way. They were getting a nice push at the time.
ReplyDeleteOn MVP, from the very beginning his dream was to work in Japan, not the WWE--Being the first ever IWGP intercontinental champion was much more important to Him then anything he did in the WWE
ReplyDeleteYou and I clearly have different opinions on what Average is...
ReplyDelete"Once the Miz program ended he had absolutely nothing going for him."
ReplyDeleteFalse--He had one other thing going for him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUIZw4pso_w
I really want Cena/Brock 2 on a big stage this time. Have Brock KILL Cena to start the angle (maybe go with an injury angle) have Cena come back to only fall short, and then go with the "Cena questioning himself" leading up to the rubbernatch. Real simple but awesome
ReplyDelete(Clicks on link, gets a "Most Interesting Man" commercial)
ReplyDeleteHe damn sure didn't have THAT going for him. ;)
MVP shouldn't have brought a convict mentality to the wwe. That's what really boned him.
ReplyDeleteIWGP has an intercontinental championship? That doesn't even really make sense.
ReplyDeleteAs they all do before the sacrifice. Like every couple of years when Kane or Big Show become number one contenders after years of midcarding.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what this comment did to receive downvotes, unless we're just downvoting certain users on principle like this is reddit or something.
ReplyDeleteIt's Dougie.
ReplyDelete(And no, I'm not one of those three. He makes a solid point, and does it well. But some people see "Dougie", and automatically go for the shot.)
Riley got the DUI when he was still on NXT I believe.
ReplyDeleteDid he try to buy Evan Bourne with cigarettes or something?
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Its a really good wrestling show usually. In many ways I prefer it to raw. No angle advancement but lots of wrestling and good promos.
ReplyDeleteMVP won it during a tour of the USA they did. They had the tournament in America so they had something cool on the US cards. Here is the title history
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWGP_Intercontinental_Championship
Its a small thread so far, but people seem down on Brock. Yea, hes not the draw he could have been during this run but hes still a bigger draw then anyone on their current everyday roster, besides Cena IMO.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if massive is the word, but he was getting very solid face pops and had a star-level entrance theme. He was definitely over.
ReplyDeleteFattening the calf, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteOK, now it makes sense. I never knew NJPW ever had a show in the U.S. And with JAPW, of all companies...
ReplyDeleteAlso, didn't Carlito and Masters job to Kane and Big Show at WrestleMania that year?
ReplyDeleteMVP, Kennedy, Carlito, Masters, Lashley... man, say what you want about current WWE product, but they've definitely done a much better job of bringing in new talent since that period. When Mr. Kennedy and MVP are your "next big things" something is definitely wrong.
ReplyDeleteThough I agree about Masters having improved after he turned face at the end of his last run. I have no idea why he hasn't gotten another shot, especially right after he got that bit of legit press for SAVING HIS MOM FROM A FIRE.
Could someone please explain to me why so many people have a hard-on for Sting vs. Undertaker? Even back in late 90s they would have been a bit of a style clash - the only thing they seemed to have in common was that they both had a somewhat supernatural character. Both of them at their best were very good wrestlers with the right opponent - but they both had their fair share of stinkers. And now we're talking about two guys with a combined age of 102, one of who apparently can barely apply his finisher anymore.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what's happening.
ReplyDeleteBrock absolutely needs to start being used to put over some guys who could actually mean something for the company. Wasting him as canon fodder for the Streak is absolutely asinine at this point. Lesnar/Taker at Mania would mean jackshit to the buyrate at this point. Nobody for a second would buy Lesnar as a threat, and as we saw last year Lesnar doesn't mean enough to draw any additional buys to the Mania buyrate.
ReplyDeleteThey really need to put Punk over him decisively to blow off that feud, and then use him to put over a few guys out of the Bryan/Sheamus/Ziggler group. Bringing Lesnar in just so he can job to Cena/HHH/Taker while having Punk be the only guy he goes undefeated against is so incredibly ridiculous.
MVP had a ton of potential. A good look, he could talk, he could work and he had charisma. Also had some community mainstream potential being he worked his way back from imprisonment and gang affiliation.
ReplyDeleteBrock is still big, I guess, but no, nothing like his potential. He could still be HUGE, but won't be because he's never on TV.
ReplyDeleteShowing up 5 times a year doesn't get you much.
I don't like it, cause I'm a huge Punk mark and want him to get his true Mania main event, but Cena-Taker to close the show is as much of a no brainier as it gets.
ReplyDeleteThe only 2 in that group that really stunk were Carlito and Kennedy.
ReplyDeleteMVP was entirely decent, and Masters started out rough but got a lot better.
I didn't mind Lashley either, but he wasn't going to be as big of a star as they thought that he should be. That's a fact.
See I think that helps his aura. If he was on TV every week, hed soon become just another WWE guy. Kinda like when Rock was on Raw during the WM build, he wasnt really promoted as anything special, just a WWE guy. I know its because WWE wants the brand to be the biggest draw, so Brock showing up to just for a few matches every year keeps him feeling a little more special, IMO
ReplyDeleteEh, it's just my opinion obviously but MVP matches were consistently mediocre. Kinda slow, no real technique, kinda punchy-kicky with the shittiest most convoluted finisher ever. Not saying he was given the opportunity to go out and work classics in his 6 minute Smackdown matches, but nothing about his work seemed all that interesting.
ReplyDeleteObviously he could have been used way better, as he had charisma and a cool smug spoiled athlete heel gimmick. But that said, I still stand by the fact that he was in a group of new talent that can't hold a candle to the crop that's been brought in over the last 3-4 years.
Yes, you are the only one.
ReplyDeleteSo, yeah, I'm basically about to imply that a large portion of internet fans - including many on this board - are hypocrites, but please hear me out.
ReplyDeleteI think that, despite the common complaint that we older ("older" as in not the type that Cena caters to) just want "wrestling", without all the long promos and backstage comedy sketches and bloating things to three hours, when we ARE handed a show like that, we just brush it off as "not being important". Well, what's "important" about Raw? Apparently, all the things we complain about, like contract-signings and returning legends and Big Show driving a semi. Other than the story-line points, there's not much of a difference between the actual on-air products of "Raw" and "Smackdown". They both feature a similar amount of - and quality of - wrestling, so why be more reluctant to watch one than the other? If all you're looking for is the in-ring action, than why do "Raw" threads get hundreds or thousands of responses, while "Smackdown" threads get, like, twelve?
Could it be that, maybe, despite the pleas to "get back to basics", many fans actually enjoy the story-lines far more than they're willing to admit?
Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting that he should be on RAW every week, not at all. He should remain an attraction. But he goes too long between appearances. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.
ReplyDeleteCall me selfish but I'd love to see Sting and Taker.
ReplyDeleteWhy? I am not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see why that is considered such a dream match.
ReplyDeleteI am going to just start upvoting Dougie to counter.
ReplyDeleteWorking with JAPW allows them to do shows in the New York and Philly areas. Maybe that's why?
ReplyDeleteIm with you. Im convinced its because both wear all black and have had capes at some point.
ReplyDeleteI've tossed him the odd upvote when he's talking sense, which he does more often then he's given credit for IMO.
ReplyDeleteNot always mind you, not always.
I agree.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really all that excited to see Sting in WWE at all, but if he did come it would be Cena, Punk, or Bryan that I'd pair him with.
Eh, I hardly ever agree with Dougie, but I hate the "downvote" culture in the first place. I get that the point is to relegate trolls to the bottom of threads, but there should just be a "flag" option for that.
ReplyDelete"Downvoting" serves no real purpose other than to be vindictive and petty about a user you don't like, or an opinion that doesn't line up with yours. And I've often believed the commentariat here to be better than that. Hell, even Jesse Baker has made the occasional decent point.
I just love posting here and wish there was less of a knee-jerk response to opinions we don't agree with, since a "downvote" kills reasonable discussion. You no longer have to actually provide reasoned objection if you can just lazily click "downvote." And a lot of potentially decent observations can be missed completely if you just see a username and think "ah, fuck it, I can ignore this." I guess I just wish we wouldn't write each other off, is all.
I want to see it too, but only if Sting gets in whatever shape will allow him to take off his shirt. Because I just can't see Sting vs. Taker in a stadium at WM with Sting wearing a t-shirt (seriously, I don't even know why he wears it. The shape of his body tells me he probably looks no appreciably worse without it than Flair did without his).
ReplyDeleteIf Sting is wrestling only one match at Mania, I'm sure he'll get some time to work himself into good shape.
ReplyDeleteI think Carlito had potential but he had a shitty attitude.
ReplyDeleteI think Sting-Taker would be a brutal disappointment. Sting can only be as good as the guy he is facing and Taker can't carry him at this point. Sting-Cena sounds kind of interesting.
ReplyDeleteShamrock was cool but could just never adapt to chain wrestling the way someone Kurt Angle did.
Kennedy is the worst pro wrestler of the last 10 years or so. Total garbage.
Agreed. I can't really think of any great MVP matches. Maybe against Benoit or Matt Hardy?
ReplyDeleteHe didn't bother getting into shape for the biggest match in WCW history, why would he care to now.
ReplyDeleteTo each there own, obviously. I thought Carlito was awful.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather watch Kennedy then Carlito, and I don't want to watch Kennedy.
Sting - Undertaker might have been interesting around 2002-2004.
ReplyDeleteYou're forgetting that, for many people, WrestleMania is the only wrestling show they watch. You set up Brock vs Undertaker and people will want to see it, myself included.
ReplyDeleteThey should have done that the first time.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading that Cena was ribbing Riley until Riley freaked out on him and that ruined him in the eyes of the locker room. I think the rule is that you're supposed to take it or no-sell the ribbing.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, bit theyve been held apart for long enough where I think thet could go back to it and itll feel fresh and have that big match feel to.
ReplyDeleteShelton also pinned HHH by rollup the week before his countout victory.
ReplyDeleteI love Sting dearly. He and Warrior are responsible for getting me into wrestling back in 1989. Always been one of my all time favorites. That being said, he can't wrestle worth a DAMN now, and I have no desire watching him & UT let everyone down on the big stage (not to mention the promos leading up to it...Sting used to have a quasi-supernatural bent to him, and I kinda enjoyed the Joker Sting run since he was clearly having fun with it, but in general Sting just has this element of overly excited corniness to him. Works great in the ring to get you emotionally invested, but on the mic it's a little embarrassing.)
ReplyDeleteAll that I do have desire for whenever he finally leaves TNA (or it dies) is to see him inducted into the HOF like he should be, and get my hands on a 2 or preferably 3 DVD set of him. Both of those things are LONG overdue, and all that we need from him now.
I'd like to see Sting involved in an angle or a feud somehow, but not actively wrestling. He's done and been done for a while now.
ReplyDeleteI'd bet he ends up getting 2 different 3 DVD sets. There's a lot of money to milk off stings name.
ReplyDeleteGod I hope so. Although quality Crow Sting matches are few and far between.
ReplyDeleteI did get those two backwards... couldn't remember which came first.
ReplyDeleteI remember on the last blog Scott had during Kennedys rise to fame you saw a lot of posters doing this.....
ReplyDeleteThis
It was kind of dumb but amused everyone for awhile. I never understood why old timey announcers did that, never understood how that got him over and I always thought he was extremely over pushed. Just average in every sense.
Did old timey announcers actually do the repeating thing? I always thought that doing his own intro was a good gimmick for a guy with a powerful voice, but the repeating thing I thought was just him trying to have a sinalong.
ReplyDeleteEven knowing that, hate the repeating thing.
Lesnar vs taker is a huge draw, maybe even bigger than cena vs taker. Everyone knows taker wins but a lot of people will eat that up with a spoon. And if that match does happen, and its good, I never want to hear that hhh is a all time great worker again.
ReplyDeleteI hated Chris Masters at first. Do they not realize that when they want everyone to be big and ripped than they can't push someone simply because they're big and ripped? He was boring in the ring and was getting the usual push he wasn't ready for that makes me hate someone.
ReplyDeleteBut the guy really did get good. After his Wellness suspension he had a match with Super Crazy and I was shocked that I enjoyed it. It wasn't as slow and "power moves and flex"-y as his usual matches - and then he did get good during his second run. But by then they were bored with him, I guess.
I don't miss Kennedy at all but I liked Carlito, MVP and Shelton, they'd help make a pretty decent midcard. But, despite having two midcard titles, the midcard isn't as important as "who's running the company" storylines and such.
The promos leading up to Sting/Taker would be good, but the quality would be kind of terrible. Plus it's beyond obvious that WWE won't have a guy beat Taker's streak in his first match with the company
ReplyDeleteAbout Kennedy being the worst pro wrestler of the last 10 or so years, I have one word: Khali
Kennedy is the worst pro wrestler of the last 10 years or so. Total garbage.
ReplyDeleteNo. Watch some IWA: mid south.
The tournament of death is the most pathetic fucking thing
Co sign. Give sting a big match but keep it short (10 mins max). I have no desire to see him in a 25 minute streak match. The only reason I think people suggest it is it could be a cool angle for sting to show up and say he's there to beat taker at mania but I'd rather see taker vs brock cena or punk.
ReplyDeleteIt was a great gimmick.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine is probably the most excited person to be in a bar you'll ever see - like a kid at Christmas. One night he sat at the bar ordering Revs repeating his last name like Kennedy. It was the most entertained I've ever been by anything Ken Kennedy related.
ReplyDeleteThe Hardy stuff was pretty good so point in his favor.
ReplyDeleteI could have had a great match with Benoit...
The fuck are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteOn the Master's thing, I thought at least ROH would pick up on that but NOPE!
ReplyDeleteWhen I personally say "get back to wrestling basics" its not that I dont want any storyline progression, its because I want good basic logical storylines. Heel vs face fighting over the title to see whos best, not convulated authority figure storylines.
ReplyDeleteYour assumption with people not liking Smackdow because its more of a "wrestling" show, overlooks one big point: you dont get the top stars like Cena or Punk wrestling on Smackdown, hence you dont get those guys "wrestling" and its made to look like a second tier show all at the same time. During the Smackdown 6 era, I bet Smackdown was the more popular show amoung fans like us because it had its stars wrestling.
Don't try and belittle the guy giving you a drug test.
ReplyDeleteRising Against Hate > Saving your mother from a fire.
ReplyDeleteA death match?
ReplyDeleteI don't know, not being around much might help his aura with marks who don't know he's going to come in to set up a match and win or lose he's gone right afterwards, but when you know his contract situation it's hard to get really excited when you know it's just a match and it really doesn't matter who wins.
ReplyDeleteYou must not have watched much old time wrestling or boxing. Yes, the announcers absolutely did that. Maybe just to emphasize the last name, I dunno.
ReplyDeleteMy interest was waning at the time of his debut but wasnt Carlito supposed to be "the guy" coming in? Thoughf I heard the E was HUGE on him
ReplyDeleteHe'd probably have to show up in shape before they'd even book the match.
ReplyDeleteGuilty. I don't think I've ever seen any old time boxing at all. Not very much new time boxing either, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteI've seen a reasonable amount of wrestling, but not much pre-early 80s and I guess that never noticed it if they were doing it then.
I hear ya. I gurss my preference is just for him to keep his auro which allows him to wrestle 3 "big match feel: matches a year as opposed to seeing him all year long as a top wwe guy. Even if he was positioned at Punks level, I dont think he could maintain that aura he has
ReplyDelete"Mr. Kennedy: ....fairly well-liked by the Internet,"
ReplyDelete...are we talking about this internet, or some other internet? i'm guessing the latter
'VP was just warming up when he got cut. '
ReplyDeletehe asked for his release, and they even gave him permission to use the "mvp" gimmick in japan
i remember when masters came in, a lot of people were like 'they're pushing him as this greek god who Takes immaculate care of his and pride in his body... yet if that were the case he wouldnt have that dumbass forearm tattoo*
ReplyDelete*not my view on it, just what a lot of people said
Was it really a lot of people saying that?
ReplyDeleteLike how many?
mvp's with matt hardy was great
ReplyDeleteThanks. That cleared things up!
ReplyDeleteenough for me to distort its importance in my memory
ReplyDelete2003 was the absolute best. You got a **** match on nearly every show. At the same time, Triple H was doing everything in his power to destroy the entire roster of Raw, even if it ruined the show. Such a difference in quality at that time.
ReplyDeleteNo way Lesnar v. Taker is a bigger draw than Cena v. Taker. Come on.
ReplyDeleteOh man, I totally forgot about that Masters/Super Crazy mini-feud. I think around that time Carlito was involved in a feud with The Sandman too? Weird shit.
ReplyDeleteLesnar/Taker is nowhere as big a draw as cena/Taker. You're way overestimating how big of a draw Lesnar is going forward in pro wrestling. The initial shock factor of Lesnar being back has worn off. The UFC fans aren't following him here. The loss to cena and the pedestrian even-steven series with HHH have made him into just another guy in terms of drawing power. And when it comes to pro wrestling— not worldwide fame, but within pro wrestling— John Cena means more to fans than Brock Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteYeah reading the other responses in the thread it looks like I messed up the timing. I remember him getting huge heat for using WWE as his "employer" but I guess that wasn't what did him in.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Lesnar's schedule though is that his whole existence in WWE feels pointless. Like, as a character, what the fuck is Brock even doing here? What does he want? The other part-timers at least have direction— Taker exists to defend his Mania streak. The Rock came back to fight Cena, and came back again because he actually wanted to win the title. HHH is the COO and his feuds flow out of that.
ReplyDeleteBut as a viewer...what the fuck is Brock Lesnar? He doesn't care about winning or losing, doesn't want a title, and even his feuds seem forced— he just fights on Heyman's behalf.
It's cool that Brock has this mysterious "aura" and all, but I don't think his appearances really have that much pull anymore because nothing he does really matters. He's won some matches, he's lost some, and nothing has come of it. he doesn't seem to care, it doesn't have any impact on anything else. It just is. Therefore, I don't think he really sells shows to the degree he would if his matches had any ramifications.
All good points. I view his just as a hired mercenary, and while its not as compelling as the storylines you mentioned for Rock, taker, etc, its worka for me.
ReplyDeleteI know Im viewing this through "smart" glasses, but knowing he was on a 1 year deal when he came in, would have made any drawn out feud useless anyways. We all knew he wasnt gonna get a lengthy title reign, so doing something like he did with HHH was the extent of his useability. Yea, they fucked up the Cena thing, Ive juat accepted him for what he is at this point, and will take those big fight feel matches he gives us. We all shit on his HHH SS match, but it did a good buy rate so the "aura" of his is still perceived as special.
I catch myself doing that at least once or twice a night when I'm hosting at comedy shows. Those couple seconds where you're waiting for the comedian to make it on stage after introducing them can sap the room's energy if there's dead air, so I'll dramatically repeat the last name to drag out the intro and keep people clapping. It's weird but it feels super natural to me; I have to consciously limit the number of time I do it in a night. I fully understand why it got over.
ReplyDeleteThat last paragraph defines everything that is wrong with the part timer era.
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that they were the two biggest stars in wrestling only to be associated with one of the two major promotions during their prime. It's basically WCW vs WWF and exactly why I never want to see it, because that sort of thing is better left as speculation.
ReplyDeleteI do recall that coming up from time to time. Nowadays it's hard to tell, though- EVERYONE is getting tattoos, especially in wrestling. I'd have figured Orton for an "oh man my body is so great" kind of guy, too, and he's got more ink than White Trash Icon, DDP.
ReplyDeleteYou must be forgetting the couple months when everyone online seemed to be jerking off over how great he was. I was COMPLETELY mystified by the love, because he seemed like Just Another Guy through-and-through, but he definitely had a lot of supporters. I think they ended up turning on him REALLY quickly once he started getting hurt and hurting others. By the time he shot his mouth off and got released, he was one of the most-hated guys online.
ReplyDeletere Kennedy: Hey, the WWE made peace with Bruno Sammartino. Wresting isn't a business you can say never in.
ReplyDeleteI've said this before on this blog, I'll say it again: If Vince (or should I start getting used to saying Hunter?) thinks he can make a metric shitload of money off of it, the main at WM next year will be Jeff Jarrett vs. the Ultimate Warrior.
Now I remember. During a drug test, MVP got lippy with the guy giving the test and he caught shit for it.
ReplyDeleteWould Sting not be the perfect authority figure for Raw?
ReplyDeleteWhen this hhh authority angle ends Vince or whoever can say they've brought someone in to run Raw who knows the business and won't take any crap.
This way he can give multiple rubs to the younger guys just by sharing screen time, and a face authority figure would give Raw a whole new vibe and God knows it needs one.
Sting might work as a surprise 3rd guy for the face team that finally triggers the Shield break-up by vanquishing them. Having the Rhodes boys bring him in for one last brawl would be a good nod to the past and the six-man set-up minimizes his limitations.
ReplyDeleteHe worked as a heel since he had that natural douchey look, like a pornstar that's slightly too old but still face-fucks amateur teenagers, and had a gimmick that basically controlled what he said. Once he turned face and tried to be funny most people got bored.
ReplyDeleteOh, totally agree that Vince TREATS the show as second-rate, and that big stars like Cena and Punk aren't present, but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of other talented guys there.
ReplyDeleteOne match that I think doesn't get enough love was the Angle/Eddie "Two-out-of-Three Falls" match around the Summer of 2004.
ReplyDeleteI actually wasn't really a huge fan of their feud, I thought that the matches, while good, were kind of disappointing considering the talent of the two (kind of like the Punk/Jericho matches). THIS match, though, was friggin' fantastic.
I've always been a big fan of the Usos, and they've clearly gotten better in the ring and more comfortable playing their characters over the years, but they're just missing that one "thing" to really get them to the next level - like you, I think a few promos to let us know just who they are would go a long way.
ReplyDeleteImo the window for Sting/Taker passed at WM27
ReplyDeleteI don't want to see Sting wrestler the Undertaker. I'd rather the Undertaker Wrestle Muta. The entrances alone would be worth the money. (even if the matches themselves sucked.)
ReplyDeleteReprise the "Dark Carnival" gimmick and put him with Goldust. He could carry the load in a tag team.
The concept isn't bad, but the artist should be shot.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=QFM27sIAq8kedM&tbnid=AZSJfBRS_gJjuM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsi0.twimg.com%2Fprofile_images%2F2930046002%2F36c0a046dafb0a20a80e6996d7183dac.jpeg&ei=BC1pUoGgI4W52wWyooHIBA&psig=AFQjCNEyenOfH469i6gZVDzX14LWRRZafQ&ust=1382710916606049
He had a crappy finisher until he started using the Drive-By kick.
ReplyDeleteHe had a good match with Jeff hardy.
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/MzmP7m4L0CU
ReplyDeleteI'm exceedingly pissed that I missed the card they had in Jersey.
ReplyDeleteI have the feeling that Sting/Taker would come across like Sting/Flair from the final Nitro. You understand and respect the history, but it's still sad to watch.
ReplyDeleteTaker needs either younger goes who can go fast or older guys who are still great workers. Sadly, at this point, Sting needs the same thing.
I would love to see them team up, though, and let Shield bounce around like ping pong balls for them.
Sadly, WWE probably feels that Muta has no name value in the US (and they might be right, insomuch as Muta probably doesn't have enough US relevance at this point to be trusted with a WM main event spot) and we wouldn't see that happen.
ReplyDeleteCan Muta speak English?
1. I completely forgot who Alex Riley was. Seriously.
ReplyDelete2. I didn't understand the appeal of Sting-Undertaker before WM27, nor do I get it now. Sting would stand zero chance of winning (which is the only appeal of the Streak matches at this point) and it's not like the two have any kind of history. Sting losing his first (and only?) WWE match holds no appeal for me. I honestly think we are overstating Sting's legacy as well. He was the "Franchise" in WCW for a while, but WCW is long dead and many of the current fans wouldn't even know what WCW was (or Sting for that matter).
3. I'm down with Bryan vs. Lesnar for sure. That would be the ultimate David v. Goliath type deal and I think Daniel could get a lot out of beating him.
4. I think Shamrock was wasted potential. As the robo-Shamrock character, he could have been a really credible challenger for Austin, especially after Wrestlemania XV. We ended up with more Austin-Undertaker though. I specifically remember thinking Shammy should be "breaking" Taker's ankle in their Backlash '99 match, en route to challenging Austin for a series of title matches that spring. Oh well...
5. MVP seemed like a potential main event Cena rival in the making, but then he was gone
This is basically what I was saying.
ReplyDeleteIn my head, because I am not great at / don't care enough to articulate as well.
Well said.
Til it bombs as no one under 15 has a clue who he is
ReplyDeleteExactly. I think we overstate the fanbase's recognition of Sting. Even those of us who saw him in his prime know that he never got to really be "the guy" except in short duration. The times that he WAS positioned to be an epic superstar, WCW fucked it up. The idea of Sting as an Icon on the level of WWE's top guys is revisionist history, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI can't think of any reason to think that Lesnar-Taker is a bigger draw than Cena-Taker.
ReplyDeleteIt could have been epic during the WCW-WWF Invasion stuff, but it's WAY too late for that. A lot of the target fanbase wasn't even around when WCW was still in existence, let alone when Sting was top guy
ReplyDeleteI really think that's the reason. Seriously.
ReplyDeleteThat's a tough one to measure. In terms of headlining PPVs, Brock has had "Extreme Rules" 2012 and "SummerSlam" 2012. His impact on Wrestlemania 29 is impossible to measure, because Wrestlemania sort of exists in its own vacuum and it was one of three big matches promoted for that show
ReplyDeleteGood point. If his kayfabe motivation was to come back and dominate the roster OR to ruin the company OR to "bring legitimacy" OR headline Wrestlemania, etc, etc...then why is he so rarely there? Why is he even there, in kayfabe terms?
ReplyDeleteTotally agree on Sting. He was not a massive draw in WCW, he was not the equivalent to Hogan/Rock/Austin/Cena/Taker. He would have been good as the WCW loyalist leader during the Invasion, but that was a dozen years ago. Today's target audience doesn't know WCW or Sting and, even if they did, I'm not sure why Sting-Taker would be a huge 'dream match' anyway
ReplyDeleteMasters was the real shame as he really worked diligently at improving in all facets. Carlito just bored me to tears.
ReplyDeleteAnd they did surprisingly well in that Chamber, too. I remember them working together as a team during the match and mowing through everyone until it was down to them and Cena.
ReplyDeleteYea man. I cant think of any other reason...AT ALL.
ReplyDeletehe will get over within seconds. wwe machine will be behind him if he signs and he has a unique look.
ReplyDeletewatch the promos he cut during Undertaker feud and you will know why he was liked by internet. he's no Benoit in ring, but give credits where it's due.
ReplyDeleteLesnar drew over a million ppv buys in UFC. Just sayin.
ReplyDeleteanyone can have good match with Benoit
ReplyDeleteWhat are you saying?
ReplyDeleteOrlando Jordan. He and Benoit had a GODAWFUL half-hour match that WWE apologized for next PPV by having Chris smoke him in 23 seconds.
ReplyDelete