Was reading a lot of the comments in your last RAW review and it got me wondering: When Cena returns what happens? Does he get his top face spot back and Daniel Bryan is put a notch below him(kind of like CM Punk was after his 'summer')? Or do you think Daniel Bryan will eventually remain the top face with Cena? I'm worried cause this whole storyline screams of all the babyfaces being defeated and Cena returning as the final hope and getting the revenge for the locker room against the 'evil empire' I don't see Bryan ever getting his revenge payoff...plus you just know he's gonna be the scapegoat for the ratings drop too.
On another note, with all the emails he sends you, have you ever considered releasing a 'Best of Jesse Baker' compilation for purchase on the Kindle? Scott you may be sitting on a gold mine!
Jesse's obsession with me waxes and wanes. I'll get a bunch of e-mails from him sometimes then he'll go months without contacting me again. He's a tough one to figure.
As for Cena, yes, I think they're going to panic over the freefalling ratings and dropping buyrates and plug him in as the savior. And here's the irony of the whole situation: This Bryan storyline was built on HHH and Stephanie demeaning him for being a "B+" guy who can't draw money on top and is too small to be champion, and that's exactly what we're seeing in real life. There's a weird faith in Wrestlemania being the ultimate payoff for stuff, when that hasn't been the case at all for anything outside of Rock-Cena in years. The show this year is clearly gearing up for Cena-Undertaker and Rock-Brock in some combination (assuming Rock can/will work the show) and you think HHH is going to get his comeuppance six spots down on the card? I think not. Plus really, the Corporation storyline doesn't have legs for much longer without adding some new top guys to the mix. The announcers are all "OMG, Daniel Bryan is the new locker room leader!" but who really joins him in standing up? Everyone else just kind of passively does what HHH & Steph demand of them and takes the matches assigned at their assigned times, and hell even Bryan does it too. And now we're getting Boobless Bella added into things in the most misguided audience reading in a good long while. Note to WWE: Total Divas is a hit with teenage girls and housewives and John Orquiola, not anyone actually watching the product that people pay money for.
Others have said it before, but I'll say it again: I do not watch wrestling to see real life job frustrations portrayed by people making millions of dollars a year. Being forced to work for the owner's idiot daughter and doofus asskissing son-in-law and never being able to get any revenge is hitting way too close to home for people. Austin v. McMahon worked because was two people playing cartoon exaggerations of archetypes (the rogueish Everyman and the Evil Boss), and the audience could project themselves through Austin's revenge on Vince because the morality play was SO broad. This storyline is frighteningly specific, with the babyface side cow-towed because they're afraid to speak up for fear of losing their tenuous employment while working for a monopoly in a bad economy (ala Big Show) and being having to answer to the guy who never wants to look bad and his wife who can't ever look bad because she's the owner's daughter and everyone knows it. The only guy who's ever been portrayed as having the balls to say anything is off in some bizarre parallel universe of walruses marrying silverbacks that never intersects with the main storyline for some reason. I mean, really, no one ever stops to ask Punk "Hey, isn't HHH a dick?" and let him talk for 15 minutes about it? It's like, the storyline is Bryan being backed up by a group of misfits and losers, who are then portrayed in storyline as a bunch of misfits and losers, so why do I care about any of this? Dolph Ziggler stood up for himself, got beat down repeatedly by the Shield and now he's headlining the pre-game show against Damien Sandow and MIGHT ACTUALLY LOSE THAT MATCH TOO. Why do I want to invest anything in these characters?
So yeah, Cena's coming back and probably wrestling Orton again.
Now THAT'S the "...and ANOTHER THING!" Netcop SmarK we all know and love.
ReplyDeleteDuh, isnt it obvious...Cenas going to ride in on a unicorn with a cure for breast cancer and then get his win back from Bryan in a 3 minute tv match.
ReplyDeleteHe's a tough one to figure.
ReplyDeleteNo. No, no he isn't.
Can we just agree to never, ever ever, never ever give HHH the benefit of the doubt? This and the Fall of Punk have closed the book on his status as a heat gobbler.
ReplyDelete"...walruses marrying silverbacks...." almost made almonds come out of my nose.
ReplyDeletePunk must have thrown the holiest of shit fits to get himself booked in his own feud away from the HHH nonsense. And more power to him because of it.
ReplyDeleteHow are they gearing up for Cena v. Undertaker when reports have them going to Ryback or Lesnar?
ReplyDeleteHas Jesse ever acknowledged his meme staus around here?
ReplyDeleteNo. He always runs away from threads when called out on his craziness. This has gone on for years.
ReplyDeleteHe used to despise Scott, claiming Scott was afraid to criticise HHH and Stephanie because he wanted a job with WWE, which Scott has vehemently denied
Yeah, that's what I thought.
ReplyDeleteSee, this is another problem. Aside from a few vague ideas of which part-timers are fighting which other part-timers, there's absolutely no clear direction to Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Scott's been a total HHH fanboy :dismissive wanking gif:. Shit, I'd love a job with the WWE.
ReplyDeleteIf they do anything besides Cena v. Taker, they are really dumb
ReplyDeleteIf the WWE would spend any time building up midcarders and making them look strong, Bryan would have plenty of people that fans could buy in to back him up. Instead they all trade wins and losses and look like chumps.
ReplyDeleteThink back to the Dallas 10 man tag match: You had Rock and Foley, ok two top guys. But then you had Too Cool and Rikishi as partners and the fans bought it because the WWE took something the fans were responding to and went with it.
There's one clear direction, though, right? HHH vs. Vince or HHH vs. Vince's champion for the power of the WWE?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't mean that's the direction I WANT, but still.
Dougie, I'll miss you when he goes on his rampage. But I want you to remember me as I lived, not as I'm going to die: writhing in pain.
ReplyDeleteI think they have to watch what happens when Cena comes back. If he gets a reaction like he did after Summerslam, if he doesn't move the needle ratings or buyrate wise I think they might FINALLY consider a heel turn. But if he gets his usual reaction, the ratings go back up, and buyrates go up I think they should wait on the heel turn (for business reasons).
ReplyDeleteThe irony of that statement about Punk it that it is a strong enough storyline to carry Smackdown by itself but it is getting buried by the HHH/Stephanie dick-waving contest (which Stephanie is winning.)
ReplyDeleteMan, I got in trouble for being HALF this negative in my rants. You're really laying on the HHHate thick there.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible people aren't tuning in because they don't think Daniel Bryan will win? Beat a dog long enough and he starts to expect it.
ReplyDelete3 minutes? I think that match will be so short it will make the one he had with Sheamus look like a 60 minute Iron Man match.
ReplyDeleteI might be in the minority but after the last two years, im enjoying not knowing what WM is going to be. Sure there should be logical storylines that progress towards a WM blowoff but after essentially knowing a year ahead what WM would look like, the last two years, Im ok with them planting the seeds a little later.
ReplyDeleteBut yea, ill be pissed at anything other then Cena/Taker. A small voice in my head is telling me that Cena/HHH might be in play with Cena playing the "WWE savior" role.
http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=54674&st=0&start=0
ReplyDeleteSome crazy Jesse
Mr. X was usually Danny Davis (the "Dangerous" referee, not the "Nightmare).
ReplyDeletehttp://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=39770&hl=
ReplyDeleteI ain't going out like Willie Lump-Lump.
ReplyDeleteIve been critical of this angle, in small part because HHH is doing some HHH things, but for the most part the criticism is that im so fucking sick of authority figure angles. This authority figure angle has become so convulated that nobody is really looking good. Who looks better now then they did before Summerslam? Whether it was HHH, Johnny Ace or Steph in the role, it still wouldnt be interesting.
ReplyDeleteIt was a huge angle 15 years ago, with the perfect collection of wrestlers and characters. Expecting the same results now is like expecting a Seinfeld spin off to work with a whole new cast and writing team.
+1 for the Menace to Society reference.
ReplyDeleteMan baker is pissed in some of these. Do we know how old he is?
ReplyDeletePartially that, IMO - you can't keep beating down Bryan, overturn his win, and pair him with a bunch of jobbers, then blame him for not getting "over". Austin/McMahon had a lot of back and forth to keep it going, and with HHH/Steph not wanting to look bad, and also HHH wanting to be a "cool heel", why should I cheer for Ryder and Ziggler again? (Who, btw, are buried so badly they're starring in "Journey 3: How'd We Get Here?")
ReplyDelete*slow clap...into roaring ovation*
ReplyDeleteHe's been around a long time, he can't be too young.
ReplyDeleteIn all fairness Bryan won at NOC, so its not like he's been jobbed out. I think people aren't watching because football is back on, and everyone is sick of hhh (example A is hhh absolutely killing the wm crowd when he went over lesnar, exhibit B is this-anangle)
ReplyDeleteThat book would really have to include entries by mrobert21, the gaysex predator guy, caliber and that dude that posted like a 20 paragraph rant when he quit posting here. He knew a guy in the wwe dvd department!
ReplyDeleteIts funny thinking back on the raw after summerslam and how many people were jumping on those of us saying this was all about hhh
ReplyDeleteOptimism, dude. Makes life a lot more enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI can't make 2 + 2=5 no matter how optimistic I am
ReplyDelete33 I think
ReplyDeleteThe thing with Bryan is they've been having him cut way too many promos and that's when he starts to get annoying. What he says is good but he starts getting in that annoying tone and builds it up to yelling, then goes into the "Yes" thing from there and by the end of it you're wincing t the tv telling him to shut up. Try watching his promos with other people id you don't believe me. He doesn't sound very cool. The thing that got him over with the casual audience is his matches. I know people who at the beginning of a show will say they can't stand him but by the end of the night have come around and are giving him props cause he's great to watch in the ring. I think occasionally showing him with a Bella may make that audience care for him a bit more.
ReplyDeleteWhatever happened to the proposed wrestlemania lineup of
ReplyDeleteHHH/Bryan (with Vince in there on someone's side)
Cena/Taker
Punk/Lesnar (for the title)
I really liked that proposed lineup. When did the Rock get inserted into 'mania plans. I thought his insurance situation was keeping him out of wrestling for a good while.
Thanks for the info. I forgot all about that.
ReplyDeleteWhy watch at all if you're this unhappy?
ReplyDeleteIsn't it a bit premature to say that we're "clearly" gearing towards Cena/Undertaker and Rock/Brock when (a) Undertaker and Rock haven't appeared on WWE television since April and (b) Brock and Cena haven't appeared on WWE television since July? And during their last appearances, none of those pairings shared any screen time together?
ReplyDeleteI love how WWE will look at John Cena as the buyrate savior, meanwhile the Summerslam buyrate underwhelmed in a match headlined by WWE Champion JOHN CENA.
ReplyDeleteOh, and also super mega PPV draw Brock Lesnar, who added nothing to the buyrate.
I like this lineup a lot. Book Rock for SummerSlam or something... start treating that like a true #2 PPV if you've wanted it to be that way for the last 25 years...
ReplyDeleteIf it means a heatless part-timer vs part-timer match against Brock, then I really hope Rock stays off this year's Mania card. I'd love to see Rock actually put over one of the younger guys, but that's not gonna happen, so hopefully the insurance companies force Rock to retire for reals.
ReplyDeleteIMO he should tone down the yelling and never do the "Yes" thing in front of a mic. When he does it off mic and it's led by the crowd with his voice faintly in the background it comes across on tv as powerful. With the mic it's overkill and annoying.
ReplyDeleteWhat?!?!?. Im new here but assumed it was like a 16 yr old on ritalin.
ReplyDeleteStop teasing me with threads ill never get to read.
ReplyDeleteUndertaker/Lesnar would be a match worthy of WM and the streak....Undertaker/Ryback wouldn't. The problem with both matches, though, is that you're putting your brittle, 48-year-old legend against either the stiffest most physical worker possible, or against another stiff worker who also happens to be green and not particularly good in the ring.
ReplyDeleteWe had a gaysex predator guy?
ReplyDeleteI was on a mailing list with him back in the mid 90s. He got banned eventually for constantly using rape in casual conversation.
ReplyDeleteIf it wasn't for the fact that Cena's elbow was clearly messed up and needed surgery, I would've almost pointed to this as a Hogan-esque move from ol' John. Hogan always used to sit out Nitro in May/June when the NBA playoffs were on and ratings dropped, and return once the playoffs were over so he could take credit for the inevitable rise in viewers.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, Cena times his surgery for just before the start of football season and he'll be back in December/January when Monday Night Football is winding down.
Still do. That was only a couple of weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteTaker/Lesnar is about the least interesting match I could imagine. Taker's not losing to Lesnar, and he's not gonna wrestle the crazy Lesnar matches like Cena and Punk did.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it'll do shit for the buyrate too. I really hope they don't do that one.
They were golorious times.
ReplyDeleteWould it make more sense for them to want him to get surgery during wrestlemania season?
ReplyDeleteI think that's definitely the way to go. Only way I have interest in Rock wrestling at Wrestlemania again is if he does the full-blown Hollywood heel thing again and puts over a Bryan or Punk.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people were saying it would get the whole roster over
ReplyDeleteThe value of the Streak is in someone having some chance of ending it. The Brock match accomplishes none of that. Cena has appeal,if only because there would be enough doubt and suspension of disbelief
ReplyDeleteAnd the other problem is that those part-timers fighting each other will be promoted as the main event no matter what direction they take with the title fueds anyway. I mean, we are already talking about how the major feud is going to involve a Cena, Rock, Taker, etc...not the Punks, Bryans, and Ortons who are being presented as "main eventers" right now. Punk and Bryan are legit made-men, but won't be presented as "headline Wrestlemania" status guys
ReplyDeleteIt's good to at least see him detached from the heatsink this feud has become....but doesn't the anti-corporate feud demand another pipe-bomb type promo and Punk throwing himself in with the rebels?
ReplyDeleteIt's an interesting point. "Hasn't been handled perfectly" raises the question of "what would the perfect handling have been?"
ReplyDeleteMania will do between 800k and 1 million buys no matter who's working next year. My guess is cena vs hhh, taker vs ryback, rock vs Brock and either punk or Bryan going for the wwe belt. Either against each other or one of them fights orton
ReplyDeleteYou're probably right. I suppose another concern with Punk's involvement is that maybe WWE is afraid Punk will detract from Bryan's rise. Punk is the better promo and probably the more logical guy to read the rebellion, but I'd hate to see Bryan look like a second-fiddle kind of guy after all that has been invested in him. I think they COULD do a sort of alliance between Bryan & Punk that would benefit both and make sense for the storyline...I'm just not convinced that they WOULD
ReplyDeleteMan, I hope Rock is just not on the show this year so that things fall into a different order. Bryan benefits way more from beating HHH than having Cena beat him again. I would just do Bryan-HHH as the blow-off, Cena-Taker as the requisite dream match main event, and Punk-Brock II as the MOTN candidate
ReplyDeleteI will say that there is a least a storyline reason for it in that Punk is so obsessed with revenge on Heyman that he doesn't care about anything else.
ReplyDeleteThe only Megapowers team I care to see is Punk/Bryan.
ReplyDeleteThis seems like a valid concern.
ReplyDeleteYou had Bryan getting beaten into oblivion at the close of every show on HHH's orders for like a month. And still often afterwards.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that far off.
It does, but Punk doing it doesn't help anyone. Bryan needs to give a promo as good as the "Pipebomb." It can be different because Bryan's a different guy. But Bryan has to give the speech to cement himself and as of yet, he's not done since winning against Cena.
ReplyDeleteI largely agree with you, but looking at the buyrate free fall there's definitely an argument that it could have been worse.
ReplyDeleteI need more baker facts.
ReplyDeleteRspwfat's greatest Meltdowns?
ReplyDeleteI am equipped with the Sword of history and the shield of realism when i venture into the BoD
ReplyDeleteHacking and slashing away at Optimistic Ham N Eggers and Johnny Come Latelys.
It was like You, me and a couple others against the BoD... (as usual)
No such thing as perfect handling.
ReplyDeleteThere's always something better.
I think its more of a case of "handling logically"
It is WWE... they have been known to run silly shit.
ReplyDeleteBut I plan on going to WM30 to see Cena/Taker.
At the risk of sounding like a nitpicker, the last time Bryan got beaten down (on HHH's orders) at the end of the show was some time before Night of Champions. As far as I recall, it hasn't happened since. Bryan got beat down on this week's episode of RAW by Orton, but that wasn't really on HHH's orders so much as it was Orton acting on his own, since the McMahons have sort of dissociated themselves from Orton since NOC.
ReplyDeleteI just find it weird that the complaints about HHH (and to a certain extent the other heels) come flying in now that he's distanced himself from the Bryan storyline (and now that Bryan's looking a lot stronger than he did a month ago). Surely all of this dissatisfaction would've made more sense a few weeks ago when Bryan and Aitch were actually interacting with each other on every episode of RAW and Bryan kept on getting beat down at the end of the show?
...a million worldwide is shit?
ReplyDeleteComing from a guy who saves and makes emoticons out of BoD av pictures, i find that weird.
ReplyDeleteYou've spoken out against HHHate over the last month or so, trying to act as a voice of reason. The only problem is that the longer you do that, the more irrational you become.
ReplyDeleteHHH has had one of the most inconsistent characters these last 3 months who clearly does whatever the hell he wants. From a kayfabe character standpoint, HHH:
-Believed in Orton so much that he sacrificed the Summerslam main event and risked losing the love of the fans while pedigreeing Bryan... proceeds to talk about him as "the face" of the WWE in promos for the next month... then has doubts about him at the ppv despite never defending the title in the month before... strips him of the title and distances himself from him... then is back to referring to him as "the face" of the WWE this week
-Used the Shield for protection... used them to dole out punishment... then punished them in an 11-on-3 match despite the Shield never failing to follow his orders
-Was obsessed with degrading Bryan for a good 4-5 weeks and keeping him away from the title...then hasn't cared for the last two weeks. Still, he gets to hit as close to home as he wants in promos with little retaliation. There's obviously no material for verbal comebacks against a big-nosed, bloated, egotistical, and old-for-wrestling guy who has a god complex (and uses the Lord's Prayer for a DVD title).
Unless something changes, the current endgame projection of this angle could end up even WORSE than HHH-Punk in 2011. This was HHH character doing a hit-and-run on Bryan and his character.
"Surely all of this dissatisfaction would've made more sense a few weeks ago when Bryan and Aitch were actually interacting with each other on every episode of RAW and Bryan kept on getting beat down at the end of the show?"
ReplyDeleteI think most of us were roundly dissatisfied then too. I was, at least.
I'm not going to XXX if it's not Cena v. Taker
ReplyDeleteHe used to be called Judas on an old old old board and Scott once completely owned him for being a creepy stalker. Sadly I think that post has been lost in time, but it was amazing. I think that's when Jesse began to hate him and claim he was sucking up to HHH, Vince and Steph.
ReplyDeleteVS. daniel bryan...
ReplyDeletethink if it was bryan vs. anyone else
Holy shit I said this like 2 weeks ago and got destroyed for it.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Dougie at the other board, he still uses a VCR to record things.
ReplyDeleteWow. This is getting creepier/more awesome by the minute
ReplyDeleteThis CANT be true..
ReplyDeleteI don't rape the pictures.
ReplyDeleteI think they are saving Punk's involvement for later, making it mean more. People were clamoring for Punk and Lesnar to interact when they were both Heyman guys, but it had much more of an impact when they finally did because they held off.
ReplyDeleteLulz. My mind has been blown, I really thought he was just a harmless teen, on ritalin, who loved wrestling. Knowing hes 33 has made me appreciate him even more
ReplyDeleteThe one one time every few years that I record something, that's how I do it too.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear because Meltzer said.
ReplyDeleteIt has gotten Cody Rhodes over.
ReplyDeleteWhat you do after you log out of here is your business.
ReplyDeleteBut what you do is save Blog of Doom members avatar pictures and make emoticons of them on NPP.
LET ME REPEAT THIS.
YOU SAVE BLOG OF DOOM MEMBERS AVATAR PICTURES... PICTURES OF THEM IN REAL LIFE... SAVE THEM TO YOUR COMPUTER... AND MAKE EMOTICONS ON NPP FOR FUTURE REFERENCE AND USE...
and you have the audacity to make fun of the members faces?
How sad is that?
The Torch actually points out that the Bryan vs. Corporation/Bryan as locker room leader angle might have already been dropped.
ReplyDeletehttp://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/caldwellstake/article_73657.shtml
It's starting, people.
Thank you. Dougie trying to get in on this Baker talk without being called out on his own obsessive antics would be an injustice. I really want to stay away from it, however, because this is like South Park's Jimmy vs Timmy feud with Jesse and Dougie.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can buy that. Plus, he's kind of a lone wolf character anyway. That's why I think it makes sense for Heyman, once Punk kicks the shit out of him, to crawl into HHH's Corporation out of self-preservation. Once he's got HHH/Steph's protection, he can start fucking with Punk again, which will naturally pull him into the fray that leads Punk/Bryan together
ReplyDeleteCaldwell is awful.
ReplyDeleteYeah I agree. I kind of think that's part of why Punk and Bryan have been kept apart. Maybe there's a fear that Punk's promo abilities and natural anti-establishment character would draw the focus off Bryan's push
ReplyDeleteI can dig it
ReplyDeleteCome ONNNNNNNN..?
ReplyDeleteEh, I'm glad those storylines are separate. If Heyman got melded into the Corporation he'd end up just getting demeaned by Steph and HHH so much that it'd practically turn him face. At least in this alternate universe, Heyman gets to be this mega-powerful bad guy and Punk gets to be the superhero without being undercut at all by the McMahons.
ReplyDeleteLol. Holy fuck
ReplyDeletePunk is a smart, smart man for staying out of this angle if he had any say in the matter.
ReplyDeleteIt started the moment they announced "John Cena making a SPECIAL APPEARENCE" for the December house shows. He'll be back on TV by the show after Survivor Series.
ReplyDeleteCena's been on top of virtually every PPV for the last infinite amount of years.
ReplyDeleteI think it could work, but only if they made it a Mega-Powers type deal and treat both guys teaming as a special event. "The two best wrestlers in the world teaming up"
ReplyDeleteTotally, HHHate can be irrational, but so can HHHLove. He can be the best old school booking guy in THIS BUSINESS, but like most of them, he has one flaw.... when it comes to himself. He ain't showing ass and he even has his wife taking the worst of the heat. Which is worse, because she CAN'T show ass, literally or figuratively, because of the restrictions on the product.
ReplyDeleteLong story short, there is very little potential for a payoff.
Or WWE realized that having two PPVs in October (AGAIN) was a stupid idea and is saving all their tricks for Hell in a Cell.
ReplyDeleteWe should pull that thread up for funsies. I really wish i could see who the downvoters are so we could mock them now.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, I get the impression HHH supporters are a very vocal, but very small minority.
ReplyDeleteLet's wait and see how it plays out.
ReplyDeleteAt the expense of literally everyone else. Including the main protagonist, Daniel Bryan. Unless they're shooting the Rhodes brothers up to WWE champ and WHC levels it's not worth it.
ReplyDeleteI give them points for the initial angle. It was a good idea but I don't think they had an idea on what to do past the first couple weeks.
ReplyDeleteThe point is more that literally any of the half baked, shitty fantasy booking on smark sites would have been better than what we're getting. Just like the Fall of PUnk.
ReplyDeleteWhy turn Bryan? He's THE MOST over face they have on the roster.
ReplyDeleteWe were always at war with Eastasia.
ReplyDeleteAnd if he gets himself into good enough cardio shape to work a good match.
ReplyDeleteNothing will ever be #2 PPV as long as RR exists.
ReplyDeleteCharlie Reneke?
ReplyDeleteAnythign would have been better than giving him a telegraphed Dusty-able win that resulted in a tepid fan reaction and dread rather than joy when he pinned the top heel.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the alternative? Turn Cena? That's not even a remote possibility.
ReplyDeleteEww you're saving people's pictures too? Site troll doesn't even do it justice.
ReplyDeleteRaw ratings turn to shit EVERY YEAR when NFL comes back on. The only times it didn't was when the Monday Night Wars were going on.
ReplyDeleteWWE knows this, and they use this excuse to push whatever agenda they want.
Also, I think its time to put the title and focus back on Punk. I love Bryan, but he comes across way too produced.
ReplyDeleteIt should be.
ReplyDeleteWhy turn someone who gets unanimously cheered?
It's not really HHH supporters. There are other forums where you can't even get a negative word in about WWE in general. Basically everything they're doing to do is great and don't you ever forget about it. There's this weird new type of smark that I really can't explain well.
ReplyDeleteI put your pictures on action figures and hold battle royals. You're hornswoggle.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying I disagree, but we all watch this product. You really think they're going turn Cena? No fucking way.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean my avatar is being used as an emoticon on some other site?
ReplyDeleteYou mean uncomfortable fucking.
ReplyDeleteUm, no....
ReplyDeleteSo, if Orton beats up Bryan as part of corporation 2.0, hhh is leeching his heat. If he beats him up on his own, then he's burying Bryan?
Probably too early to call the thing a failure just yet...
Despite all the crap he gets, cena went out at summerslam and put Bryan over clean with a fucked up elbow, and then pissed off to not take the spotlight. I dont get how you can compare him to Hogan
ReplyDeletethe anti-smark
ReplyDeleteI'd think Triple H is smarter about business than that, otherwise they'd have Cena all over television just like the last time he got elbow surgery.
ReplyDeletethis guy doesn't get it
ReplyDeleteI spent the first days before and after SS rehashing HHHistory, and trying to play "devil's advocate" on how this angle could flop.
ReplyDeleteI can still respect pre-WM18 HHH, and enjoy/love the product he did help make that... damn... good. But since, he's been way more flop than win, and therefore a very valid target of criticism. Especially in the role he has now, BOTH kayfabe and real.
Under a million? FAIL.
ReplyDeleteIf that's for Scott... his bankbook appreciates it.
ReplyDeleteIf you mean he comes off like he's reading lines I agree. Gone from unhinged badass to annoying, sarcastic face. Still one of my faves though.
ReplyDeleteThey have to know that Punk would overshadow Bryan on the mic, and that's one of the reasons they're keeping him far, far away from this story. I love Bryan as a wrestler, by MY GOD, do not let him talk. The only person who could ever cut promos via sarcasm and not be completely annoying was Jericho, and even he couldn't do it every time.
ReplyDeleteFor both you and Spanish:
ReplyDeleteAnd whose fault should that be? Who's created and pushed these angles/storylines/etc... that cause the roster to look like this:
Cena/HHH/UT/Part-timers (mileage may vary)
Punk/Orton/Bryan
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Anyone else.
No, but when hes standing around while HHH/Steph/The shield, are doing the "heavy lifting" as heels, hes not doing anything that gets him over as a heel. What dastardly heel act has he done before Monday night? Nothing, because the ficus hasnt been on him, its been on Hunter and Steph.
ReplyDeleteWhy aernt people getting this?
Caldwell and Keller have basically shit on this entire angle start to finish. They've complained about literally everything that's been done without any consistency in their complaints whatsoever. Any match result is a total burial, everything that happened is totally wrong and a sign that the angle has failed, such and such a crowd wasn't loud enough which means Bryan is failing which means the angle has failed which means HHH is literally HHHitler. Blah blah blah.
ReplyDeleteI know that Keller takes minor slights like HHH's offhand remark in the Grantland article about how he got worked personally but the Torch's coverage of everything since Summerslam just reeks of juvenile bitterness from people who are 20 years too old to be acting like that.
Uh, he basically tried to kill Miz in front of his parents. That wasn't very nice.
ReplyDeleteYea, theyve been getting better the last three weeks and moving HHH away from Orton/Bryan...I think they started realizing what weve been saying.
ReplyDeletePlus that wasnt dastardly at all since we got Mizs dad on tv
ReplyDeleteKellers made good points about how the rest of the roster looked like shit when they were standing on the ramp not doing anything, how in a storyline sense it makes no sense for people to pay money to a company run by HHH/Steph, how fans aernt excited for Bryans chase anymore since theyve seen him "win" it twice before and get it takem away, etc. You not agree with him but hes pretty objective about it.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It was nice to see Daniel get the pin at NOC, but it has thrown the story off the rails. Stone Cold didn't win the belt at In Your House or the Royal Rumble before getting the big win vs HBK. The first win should have significance, and they have given DB two of them, neither of them amounting to anything.
ReplyDeleteSimilar to the Invasion where he got to stand behind Stephanie and Shane.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid they'd do it with no prior announcement, on a random RAW, vs The Shield.
ReplyDeleteHe's been the exact opposite of objective. He had a handful of decent points and is basically spot on when he talks about Ziggler and I 100% agree with what he says about Big Show (he's basically a ruined character as a face OR heel at this point) but as far as big picture things, he's just bitter. He complained the loudest about Bryan being laid out at the end of shows, then when Bryan "won" on Raw and Smackdown before the PPV he complained about that. He complained about the match results frequently for no reason other than to complain (seriously, complaining that Bryan is going over the shield and winning matches on Raw?).
ReplyDeleteHe complained about too much HHH, THEN he complained about HHH not being active enough and evil enough. He complained about the faces on the ramp, then complained when they helped him.
He clearly has an agenda at this point, it's just hard to argue that he isn't actively rooting for this to be a failure so he can claim some kind of victory.
I agree, Rock can stay away for this one, unless it's just an appearance, or a HOF induction?
ReplyDeleteIf I ever stopped liking wrestling you wouldn't see me around here.
ReplyDeleteI like wrestling so yeah, I'm going to explain to people WHY I like it.
Because you're a mindless puppet who thinks that Scott speaks with the word of Yahweh himself?
ReplyDeleteUh...most of it is male rape if that makes you feel better.
ReplyDeleteActually, I see them doing it to protect Punk. The purpose of this storyline has been, in theory, to make Bryan into a star. Why put Punk in a situation where he would be playing second fiddle?
ReplyDeleteHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ...
ReplyDeleteHow about "idiot"
ReplyDeleteDon't take this as a direct response, it's more towards the mindset I'm talking about. If you like something, does that make it above reproach? Plus, can't you like something even if your criticize it?
ReplyDeleteAfterall, it's a TV show. You can like a TV show and say "man, the writing and acting is kinda blowing ass this week."
I think they got cold feet, and I honestly think they're kicking themselves over Bryan winning at NoC. But I don't think this angle is the fucking apocalypse and Triple H is the Devil himself.
ReplyDeleteBryan honestly shouldn't have gotten his hands on Orton in a real match until Hell in a Cell. Have Orton face tomato cans and maybe Rhodes while Bryan faces the Shield one at a time in a bunch of unfair stipulations. Then you can do the Rhodes being fired angle while Orton slowly goes psycho.
I think they did a lot of it too fast and I really don't see what they can do now to extend the angle.
"Austin/McMahon had a lot of back and forth to keep it going..."
ReplyDeleteBut it really didn't. Austin *always* won. He beat Dude Love and thwarted McMahon with the deck as stacked against him as it could be at Over the Edge. He destroyed McMahon's really expensive car. He hosed him down with beer. Hell, after McMahon fired him for outright insubordination, Austin shows up to the arena with a hunting rifle, signs some autographs for the cops, then took McMahon hostage and made Vince piss his pants in the middle of the ring...all of which culminated with him beating the ever loving hell out of Vince in a cage. That's why that feud worked while this one is just getting tired and boring: like Scott said, it was pure escapism. It was an outsized comic book hero constantly living out every blue collar guy's fantasy of flipping the bird to the boss and doing whatever he wanted to do, and in the general sense it was a weekly installment of the good guy finding ever more entertaining ways to come out on top of the bad guys.
The current storyline just doesn't have that, specifically because Bryan isn't coming off like Austin. There's no smarm. There's no head wagging badassery. If Stone Cold got screwed, he stormed out to the ring, single handedly beat up everyone in the corporation, and did something to humiliate Vince on national television. Bryan...gets an "aw shucks" look on his face, cuts a bland, totally forgettable promo, and doesn't inspire any sense that Triple H won't ultimately prevail. And really, the more I see of it, the more I think this really is all about Triple H (although the possibility that his refusal to not look like a bad ass at all times just ruins whatever they're trying to do does remain), and that the ultimate blow off here is either Triple H vs. Cena or Triple H vs. Vince.
Read his explanation. It makes sense in the context of what hes saying
ReplyDeleteOh, you can totally criticize something you like. WWE is not perfect by any means, they make mistakes and my interest in the product waxes and wanes with the quality of it. I just don't think a product based around Punk and Bryan kneeing assholes in the head is bad. And Triple H ruining things 4EVER is really overstated.
ReplyDeleteI just never have seen the purpose of continually following a product when your interest has completely dropped off. You get this circle-jerks of hate. Listen, there's plenty of things that I just don't get or like at all, even things that I at one point really did enjoy. But after my tastes evolved and changed...I don't continue harping about how things used to be and how awesome things were. I move on, and I recommend the same to any body who just can't stand wrestling anymore.
Uh, no. It's because I thought he was spot-on about many of the things that bug me about the product today and I couldn't have said it any better. Let me know if that's ok with you.
ReplyDeleteThe product that you don't watch today.
ReplyDeleteYou know what hurts the most about this whole set-up? They blew CM Punk's momentum in 2011 badly, and look to be doing the same to Daniel Bryan. Both men have the right combination of charisma, in-ring talent, and a definitively fresh look to have been huge moneymaking stars for the company. But now, instead of this generation's answer to Steve Austin and the Rock, they're looking more like the Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels of the generation—great matches, but no drawing power.
ReplyDeleteWow. Ok, for the sake of further clarification, the product I've continually tried to watch on any regular basis for years but kept tuning out because they make the same dumbass mistakes that Scott explained above, and many more.
ReplyDeleteWhile I personally, and seemingly a majority of the fans will always thinks so... WWE has always considered SummerSlam their #2... but they don't push it as hard as they used to.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying you're wrong (or that you won't eventually shown to be proven right), but it's too early to tell that. People seem to forget that a significant amount of time passed between the Austin 3:16 speech and him becoming the face of the industry. SummerSlam was only a couple of months ago -- there's still plenty of time to get things on course for Bryan.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that would have been any better. People resented the fact that Punk was removed from the title scene to focus on Triple H and Kevin Nash and ultimately, it didn't seem like his push got back on track until he won the title from Del Rio. Bryan has had a lot of momentum and I think it would have been a mistake to take him out of the title picture.
ReplyDelete"Leilani Kai w/Fabulous Moolah vs. Susan Starr
ReplyDeleteStarr was dressed as a cowgirl."
This is a stretch, but given that WWF was still northeastern in nature, could this have been a reference to Philly kids' show host Sally Starr?
A "handful of losses"? When Cena returned from injury following his year long title reign, he spent pretty much the entire time (until his neck injury) putting people over either completely clean or relatively clean. He lost clean to Triple H, lost clean to Batista, ate the pinfall in the threeway at WrestleMania, lost to JBL in the middle of a PPV card, was eliminated in the first half of the match in a Fatal Fourway match. And since then, he's suffered some losses to Orton, lost to Punk in semi-clean fashion, lost completely clean to Rock and Bryan, and suffered high profile PPV losses to Wade Barrett and Dolph Ziggler (and Johnny Ace). The smirk and joke thing I'll give you, but he loses a lot more than Hogan (or even Austin) ever did.
ReplyDeleteHe's also in the same timeframe had more high profile wins than anyone else on the roster. His batting average is still very strong.
ReplyDeletebut the time has passed for Punk
ReplyDeleteI'm not even sure I believe that to be true. Punk is absolutely established. He can absolutely be put in a major feud at any time and be seen as believable and belonging.
ReplyDeleteBut not as great as you'd think. WWE Magazine did a feature on his t-shirts, believe it or not, and gave the PPV win/loss record for Cena for each of his t-shirts (orange, purple, red, black, green). His highest winning percentage was 57%. With the orange shirt -- which he wore the longest -- his PPV win/loss record was 40%.
ReplyDeletei just mean the chance to be austin/rock instead of hart/michaels
ReplyDelete... wow, have I been holding a lot in.
ReplyDeleteWhat can be done to Stephanie anyway? Vince shows up and calls her a bad daughter and she cries and shrieks. Whoopidy-do. It's not like Big Show is going to knock her out or pimp her out or have a psychotic home invasion. She'll go on her way and never have her comeuppance.
ReplyDeleteThank you for explaining in one paragraph the same thing I attempted to do in several. There's no drama in this angle because the stakes for the HHH/Stephanie side are nonexistent.
ReplyDeleteYou're still criticizing a product you don't watch. Justify it however you will, but you're allowing the word of another to decide your aesthetics.
ReplyDeleteI see that, I totally do. I like longer angles...but the average wrestling fan is not a patient creature.
ReplyDeleteI just look at the angle like I'd look at a TV show or movie, yes they're not the same but there's similar ideas to them. Rocky didn't whoop Clubber Lang's ass the first time they met. Establish the conflict, then give it time to breathe and grow before paying it off.
It's why I like stables, they give reasonable punching bags for the superfaces to succeed at something without accomplishing their entire goals. This black/white total success or total failure booking is really detrimental to long term angles because either the face wins all the time or loses all the time. Give them small victories that don't pay everything off.
PLUS! I don't want to see Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton 3 PPVs in a row. I know the rubber match thing is an industry standard, but switching up the matches does tons for freshness and avoids audience burnout. If two guys have chemistry and they're at the top of the card, don't overexpose what you got (and if they suck but it makes storyline sense to feud? Space out the suck).