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Hi Scott, hope you are well.The recent post about the '96 episode of Live Wire, and some of the resulting discussion, made me think about the Raws of 1995 and 1996. General consensus regards those years as thoroughly bland and having had no edgy moments that made the audience say "Woah!" Being a fan of the mid-90s, I would have to disagree, and state that there were a number of segments that served as a precursor to the aggresive product which characterized the Attitude era. Here are 10 examples to illustrate my point.1. Steve McMichael Throws Down (Mar. 20, 1995)- Yes, the list starts with Mongo. During the buildup to WM XI, McMichael joined a number of fellow NFLers in supporting Lawrence Taylor during the preparation for his match with Bam Bam Bigelow. As Mongo offered commentary during an episode of Raw, Bigelow stablemate Kama came to the announce table and challenged McMichael. The resulting brawl, which was not something you saw either guests or announcers generally do at that point in time, showed the future Horsemen displaying more intensity than seen during his entire WCW career. (09:45 in)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbSKK_A8C6w2. Bret Gets Pissed (May 22, 1995)- And you thought Bret Hart bull rushing announce tables or swearing into microphones wasn't done until 1997. When Bret wanted to get his hands on Jerry Lawler, he REALLY wanted to get his hands on Lawler. (9:30 in)http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17uwdg_raw-5-22-1995-pt1_sport?search_algo=23. Diesel On A Tirade (Nov. 20, 1995)- The night after losing his title, Diesel interrupts a match to conduct a spirited promo, delivering some of it about and towards Vince McMahon, who was still known mainly to the public as just an announcer. http://www.wwe.com/videos/diesel-addresses-the-wwe-raw-november-20-1995-260216734. HBK Collapses (Nov. 20, 1995)- You knew this had to be here. Worked shoots may have been common during the Attitude days, but not so much in '95. The silence which completed the show really sold it as something different. (6:10 in)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1isCHtXKKWk5. Goldust Wants Some Machismo (Jan. 15, 1996)- Get used to this guy. An angle that had many parts which could fit on the list, this particular interview kind of summed up what they were doing with the feud. Definitely an "Are they actually going there?" sort of moment.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAAAE6zygE6. Vader Has An Authority Problem (Jan. 22, 1996)- Beating up an authority figure may have been old hat a few years later, but at this point, it just wasn't done in the WWF. Monsoon was a beloved figure, and as reviewer J.D. Dunn put it, this was like seeing your grandpa get beat up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znOdXmOHiOc7. Goldust Fondles...The Undertaker?!? (May 13, 1996)- Would you feel up Taker? Do you like life? But they went there, albeit in edited form. (starts 19:00 minutes in, goes for about 3 1/2 minutes)http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw8bc8_wwf-raw-05-13-1996_sport?search_algo=2As mentioned above, this segment was edited down as the show had been taped 2 weeks earlier. A detailed summary was printed in the May 6, 1996 edition of the Wrestling Observer. From the Observer:"Goldust started pawing at Undertaker, but Undertaker stopped him and they had a stare down. Mankind attacked Undertaker and did the mouth hold on him to paralyze him. With Taker out, Goldust got on top of him and started making out with him including licking his leg going up with the idea he was going to start sucking him. Goldust started rubbing his own crotch before moving in for the kill when Undertaker sat up and Goldust got out of there. I was told this angle was far, far beyond anything that has ever been done before and the fans were literally stunned."8. Goldust Kisses A Black Man (May 27, 1996)- Because groping a dead man wasn't enough. (47:20 in)http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw8tpv_wwf-raw-05-27-1996_sport9. Jim Ross Lets Loose (Sep. 23, 1996)- Yeah, the attached angle sucked. But this promo was a blistering blast against one Vincent Kennedy McMahon. In 1996! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L-zA0OchHE10. Pillman's Got A Gun (Nov. 4, 1996)- Going out with a bang. Still one of the most controversial angles they ever did, and it nearly got them tossed off the USA network.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_s-CKQzPmMNow I'm not saying that '95 & '96 had as many aggressive moments as '97 or '98. That would be foolish. But I do think it necessary to point out that the Attitude era didn't come out of nowhere. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Even during a tame period, there can be some pretty wild, memorable moments which lead to something greater. Hope everyone enjoys. Take care.Jon
Whoa whoa whoa, Steve McMichael did not throw down or do anything proactive, OK? Everyone knows that Mongo only pawn in game of life.
ReplyDeleteSo many good little details as part of that Monsoon/Vader angle. Cornette's reactions, ranging from egging Vader on, to trying to hold his man back, to "oh god, this is bad, this is bad..." when Vader was actually beating on Monsoon.
ReplyDeleteAlso, for a young mark growing up, I remember being stunned at just how big Gorilla actually was. I knew he had been a wrestler back in the day but after 10 years of seeing the guy as a kindly old announcer, I was surprised to see a guy that was actually taller than Vader and looked like he could still kick ass.
Ditto, I always thought of him as like this little Quasimodo dude at the booth and then one day I was shocked at how tall he was.
ReplyDeleteGorilla was about breaking necks and cashing checks.
ReplyDeleteI know personally, it was late 1996 when I started noticing - as a fan - two trends.
ReplyDeleteOne, segments were starting to push the edge with increasing frequency, like the Golddust stuff and the Pillman gun angle. None of these could really be called successful, but I think they were important in terms of finding the voice and tone that would ultimately set the foundation for their success going forward.
Two... everybody was a bad guy! And it was great! Up till that point, the WWF had worked the same formula ad nauseum. Build up a bad guy to take on your hero at the PPV, rinse repeat. By the end of 1996, there were like 6 guys in the main event mix to some extent, each for their own entirely selfish reasons, and each with their own problems with the other's personalities.
There was no sign-posting, 'hey, this is the guy you cheer for!'. HBK was an arrogant prick... if you like him, go for it. Bret is a paranoid whiner. If you like him, go for it. Stone Cold is a violent sociopath. If you like him, go for it. Sid is... ok, fine Sid is your straight heel, but heel, at Survivor Series, fans were more than willing to cheer him if it meant booing HBK. Taker... well, he's the closest thing to a straight face, which says a lot given his character at that point was basically just emotionlessly murdering whoever got in his way.
I think both of those shifts could be seen as the incubation stages of what would become the hallmarks of the attitude era.
'ok, fine Sid is your straight heel, but heel, at Survivor Series, fans were more than willing to cheer him if it meant booing HBK'
ReplyDeleteactually, if you watch those raw's from that time period, i'd argue that sid never fully turned heel, definiely not around survivor series, and arguably not around wm 13. he did some heelish things (like attacking lothario's son), but he never outright acted like a full blown heel, and was more a tweener
I think this is a glaring omission from the list:
ReplyDelete11. Yokozuna Gives Bret a Brown Shower
They lampshaded it in early 1997 by saying the pursuit of the WWF Championship had turned everyone bad, even Taker in early 97 was a humongous dick.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget just about everything Sunny did during that time. As a kid watching WWF and hoping for a little of Elizabeth's cleavage, it was surreal to see a woman parading around ringside in spandex. But then when she started wearing less and less, and suddenly we had a woman in the WWF wearing an honest-to-goodness BIKINI??? Well, the tides had shifted for certain.
ReplyDeleteI remember Heyman doing something similar recently actually, when Brock was beating up Vince and the Miz.
ReplyDeleteYou never disappoint.
ReplyDeleteGreat list, I forgot about a lot of that stuff. You do realize Vince Russo wrote 8 or 9 of those segments.
ReplyDeleteThe trend I noticed was that whenever Savio Vega was in the ring, shit was about to go down. He may not have been involved in it directly, but he was like the Steve Doll of mid-90's WWF.
ReplyDeleteHe's still a fucking moron.
ReplyDeleteVinny Ru wasn't a full-time member of the writing staff until early to mid 1997. Has he actually been taking credit for some of these ideas that clearly aren't his (I'm thinking anything from 1995 or clique related)?
ReplyDeleteBret going through the table against Diesel? Bret blading at IYH?
ReplyDeletewatching these old raw videos makes me miss jobbers. it really made anytime two legit stars matched up feel special.
ReplyDeleteLawler pouring whiskey down Jake Roberts' throat was pretty edgy back in 96.
ReplyDeleteCan't forget the Austin 3:16 promo either. Austin had some great stuff in 96 that pushed the envelope. "If you put the letter s in front of the word hitman, you've got my exact feelings on Bret Hart" is a personal favorite.
isnt there a story that someone watching the pillman gun incident actually called the police??
ReplyDeleteThis is a great list
ReplyDeleteThat was a fantastic list, by the way. I debated seeing about co-opting it for an upcoming WhatCulture article, but I couldn't really add too much more.
ReplyDeleteI knew about most of these, but the one I learned about was the Goldust-Undertaker segment. I'm not the type to get easily offended, but HOLY SHIT did that make me uncomfortable to watch it.
ReplyDeleteThis was just a Raw list, and those were PPV matches.
ReplyDeleteYou can't appreciate how big he is until you see him in person.
ReplyDeleteAll that stuff was PPV, and this was just Raw.
ReplyDeleteQuite a few people did, and it also pissed off USA. (allegedly to the second part)
ReplyDeleteImagine if they hadn't edited it.
ReplyDeleteDidn't realize we were doing just raw. Guess I didn't read the article closely enough. Great list.
ReplyDeleteI thought about it, as Lord knows she was a trendsetter. But she didn't really have that one, single "HOLY CRAP, I can't believe they went there" moment. I'm sure she would have made a top 12 or 15 list though.
ReplyDeleteI still love Sid smiling like a doofus while staring at Shawn doing his striptease on the announce table.
ReplyDeleteAgreed - Great idea for a list, and great supporting citations. Extremely well done.
ReplyDeleteThat type of "shades of grey" was EXACTLY what I was hoping for from Punk's reign in late-2011/early-2012. But then they turned him into a goofy face, and then into a Snidely Whiplash-esque heel.
ReplyDeleteI know that a lot of people didn't like his promos with Trips at that point, since Trips basically pointed out how hypocritical Punk was ("You're anti-authority, but it's the authority that paid for 'Cult of Personality'"), but I absolutely LOVED them. I was actually hoping Punk WOULD remain a charismatic liar, where the fans would love him despite his less-than-sterling reputation, almost like a modern-day Flair, Austin, or Heyman. That moment where Trips basically summed-up that Punk's idea of "change for the better" was that he [Punk] should be the champion and face of the company and get infinite title-shots... I found that absolutely riveting.
Agreed, but the problem now but is it'd be hard for them to go back to that. These days, you expect names to wrestle names, even if they're treated like jobbers like 3MB or Zack Ryder.
ReplyDeleteThe Flair comparison is solid. Even when he would turn face, we knew he was a ratfuck cheating bastard who would eventually turn again (probably on Sting), but we loved his cheating antics when he did it against heels. Punk could have been the same way.
ReplyDeleteWell she did do that Tickle Me Elmo skit on one of the Saturday Night shows.
ReplyDelete"I love your cologne, is that embalming fluid #5??"
ReplyDelete- Goldust before he molests Taker
now that made me crack up!
I don't remember seeing that before either..This was the first time I ever truly got the creeps from Goldust...Kudos to Dustin and Taker for being willing to sell that, I don;t think I could let another man crawl on me like that.
ReplyDeleteI met Gorilla as a kid, at one MSG house show where they were using the hockey announce booth instead of being at ringside, I went over during intermission hoping to catch whoever was calling the card. About halfway through, Monsoon walked out. I wish I had a camera. He walked over to me and spoke to me for a bit before wandering off, very nice guy and I always appreciated that.
ReplyDeleteDude was huge, his hands were the size of my eight-year-old head!
I can't imagine that Elmo bit would have been acceptable for anything BUT Shotgun Saturday Night.
ReplyDeleteThat was a great show, well the six or so they did live. Undertaker hitting the tombstone on HHH on the escalator, Marlena flashing The Sultan (aka Rikishi), and the Sister of Love gimmick!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised Taker was even willing to do that, if there was ever a time to pull the political card...it had to be weird for Goldust, too. Rape/sexual assault scenes in pure fictional shows are creepy enough as it is, it just doesn't have a place in quasi-real entertainment like professional wrestling.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that was an amazing concept for a show, but I guess running intimate venues like bars was way more trouble than it's worth.
ReplyDeleteWere these really precursors, or are we just projecting onto that era due to hindsight? You could argue the WWF was taking a more adult approach as far back as the early '90s. Sherri getting down on her knees in front of Warrior after trying to come on to him to get Savage a title shot, Flair saying he had nudes of Liz, and Razor basically playing a spin off of a Latino drug dealer from Scarface could all be seen in the same light.
ReplyDeleteI think some of the stuff, like Goldust and Pillman, was intentional but the rest of it was just a coincidence where you're working deductively by stating your hypothesis and looking backwards to find loose examples to justify it. I honestly don't think there was a conscious effort to include edgy moments until somewhere in mid '96. Goldust is an exception that proves the rule, and actually, isn't really even much of an exception. Adrian Adonis, while not as overtly aggressive in his intimations, was "flamboyant" enough that the audience could connect the dots; this was further cemented by Piper in his use of homophobic epithets when confronting Adonis.
There were always oddly adult moments occurring in the WWF on a fairly regular basis even before it became adult. They just existed in a vacuum since the product was always targeted towards children.
No, I would say they qualify as precursors. I was watching back then, and definitely got the feeling that something different was happening both in late '95/early '96 and the last couple of months of '96 (Vince got cold feet in between). Considering the period they were coming out of, the changes of '97 definitely felt organic.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean about the early 90s. They did start doing some more edgy stuff around then (the angle with Jake's cobra biting Savage comes to mind), but they really backed off from that during '93 & '94. That was after the sex & steroid scandals of '92, which definitely should NOT be underestimated in their influence on the product at the time. Vince also had the federal investigation hanging over his head during much of '93 & '94, which played a part. Those were 2 pretty reserved years (though there was certainly good stuff going on, just not at all edgy).
'95 & '96 were like the first baby steps out of the cave, towards something which they couldn't foresee. Underneath the bland white-meat babyface championship runs, there was something interesting going on, easy as it was to overlook.
I believe that was in '97. Otherwise, it might very well have made it.
ReplyDeleteNash shooting on Vince was something different.
ReplyDelete