1. Batista is still confirmed for the Rumble. sigh. 2. I actually like having two secondary belts under one primary belt. There is a lot of roster right now. 3. Weirdly enough, that's solid. advice for virtually any career actually. 4. Anyone else think that the WWE really missed out on a chance with Hero? Or was there just no chance to make money off of the guy?
The InterState title? I sort of liked having two secondary belts also, but it seems pretty obvious that they don't know how to book secondary champs, so maybe this will help.
I wish they'd use the US title much like they used the TV title in WCW, where a newcomer would come in and win the belt and if they get over with that they can go after the IC title and if they get over with that, they can go to the main event scene.
The concept of the TV title is totally expired. Back in the day, most titles were only defended on house shows or PPVs. These days, EVERY title is a "TV Title".
See, I get what they are talking about: stop focusing on cramming high spots and learn more psychology. I agree. That said, should everyone have the same cookie-cutter offense? Should nobody have any unique, high-impact moves?
Is the World title defended on EVERY Raw? Or the IC title?
THAT is what a "TV Title" is. 10-15 minutes GUARANTEED every week, hopefully used in a good, entertaining match between guys who have NO business in the main scene yet. It gives them a chance to be on TV, under less pressure, and develop into the stars of the future.
Does every "TV champ" work out? No, see Prince Iaukea. But even if you "only" get 50% success... that's a LOT of talent to work with the Cenas, Punks, Ortons, Bryans, etc... of the world in the future.
So WWE can get money for old shows so they can continue putting out dull new content , ignoring any talent they don't want to push? Doesn't feel like a victory.
I've always wondered the kayfabe purpose of the TV Title. Was it that the TV champion only defended the belt on TV, but not house shows or large events (PPVs)? Where as the US and World Titles were rarely defended on TV and more prone to being defended at house shows or large events (PPVs)?
The TV title was usually an "entry" or "low/mid" level belt that was defended on TV every week, and also saw action on PPV/house shows. Granted, it was held by some big names at times (Dusty, Tully/Arn as Horsemen...), but even then the TV matches were closer to squashes.
If the WWE had a similar title today, I could see the recent IC/US title pictures being moved there, with those two belts moving up a little (especially if they would be merged...)
I don't mean rename the US title into the TV title or anything. I mean in WCW, back when they had competent bookers, they had separate divisions for each title and each title was held at a hierarchy, so for instance Benoit would first win the TV then he won the US title before mixing it up in the main event scene. That's what's missing in WWE today: There's no structure and a jumbled mess of main eventers and jobbers with no strong midcard.
For hero, i think the negatives outweighed the positives. He didn't seem to connect with the crowds either from his NXT stuff, and none of his matches ( The Regal one aside) really stood out.
HHH has some solid ideas. He just needs to stop trying to get into the ring. Hopefully, he will develop massive stage fright so he has to stay backstage forever...
WWF Heavyweight Intercontinental European/Hardcore
Sure, a guy might drop a level if the feud asked for it, but you could usually tell who was booked where by the belt level of his opponents. Nobody would confuse Val or D-Lo for a main eventer... unlike a good chunk of today's roster.
Exactly, you solidified my point. Look at D-Lo, he started off as a jobber and slowly worked his way up to win the Euro title, he got over with that so he won the IC title and he got over with that and I'm sure he would of eventually mixed it up in the main event scene if the Droz incident didn't happen. This type of booking doesn't take in WWE or TNA for that matter these days.
Not everyone works out, sure. A year ago when Fandango debuted, management were very high on the guy before it petered off. I think a great example would be Stunning Steve Austin, he came into WCW won the TV title almost immediately, got over with that, won the US title, also got over with that and was looking to feud with Flair in the main event scene before Hogan put a stop to it.
What? Why are they depushing Daniel Bryan? Ohhhhhhh WWE's gonna pay....Oh wait a minute, a network with hours of classic programming? You win this round WWE....
I see psychology as part of learning the wrestling basics.
To me high spots are actually more on the storytelling side of things. Only get into using them once you have a solid mat based game.
Psychology and wrestling go hand in hand for me, and storytelling comes from how you work in the ring. It should come naturally if you have two guys who know how to WRESTLE.
Fandango would have made a fine TV title holder, IMO. Not quite Honky-level heeling, but a mix of Honky and WCW Regal would have made him a better heel.
i think with one title and a bloated roster there is room for 2 midcard titles, and they can definately build them up to respectibillity again, but they prob wont.
They really need to rank the titles. Two world champions was ridiculous but I have no problem with two midcard championships especially with a roster the size of the WWE's.
I agree. Even if Vince's opinion on him did wane, I'm sure Fandango could have been just fine as a strong midcarder. The TV title division would be a great spot for him and he could be used to put over a hot newcomer when the time called for it, like Langston.
I know Big E and Fandango have had a lot of matches together and didn't do much for Big E, but can you imagine Fandango having a long US title reign before Big E finally puts a stop to it Ultimate Warrior fashion.
The network does feel like a personal triumph for me but I'm hesitant to open that article because I'll probably have to open a new page for every photograph.
Fuck a unification match. You know what I would like? Make the US title exclusive to that "WWE Main Event" show and have it be defended there week in and week out against mid-carders. It would be a step up from NXT. (Think Punch Out for NES)
"Less wrestling, more storytelling" is everything wrong with the WWE in a nutshell. Outside of a handful of wrestlers on the roster now, everyone wrestles the same homogenized style, and it makes for zero upward mobility. Psychology is an integral part of the business that's overlooked, but bringing in raw talent to train them in the 'WWE style' is just creative death.
Caveat: I didn't read the "stop cramming highspots" into the message, because of the company's shunning "indy-style workers". Yet the indy style workers in question that have been explicitly rejected is the ROH star-mold of excellent technicians who can use some high spots if necessary, but work a great mat-based style as well.
That seems to be what the point is. Learn a handful of spots that are unique to you, than you can do safely and effortlessly and work them into a 5-10 minute match. That's what Bryan does.
Don't copy 37 top rope tornado back breakers and springboard shooting star DDTs from a Mexican or Japanese match you saw on YouTube and build your matches using them all because we don't do that shit here.
But by that logic, IC and WWE World Global Universe are redundant, too. Three singles titles can work, with US < IC < World. It would take effort to establish US < IC though, so I doubt it would happen.
No buys on this one; the author makes the mistake of assuming that the only wrestling fans using the internet belong to the IWC/Smark community, and thus they'll be the only ones paying for the network. In reality, the company has ratcheted up its noncompliance to the fans wishes, and is already laying out long-term plans for people to push, the will of the fans be damned. If fan reaction could drive the engine as it largely did from 1996-2000 when the company HAD to compete, then you'd have CM Punk and Daniel Bryan wrestling for the title TONIGHT. Instead, let's bring back Batista and pair him off with Randy Orton, because it worked seven years ago, so why not now? Let's give John Cena another fifteen title reigns, and strap the rocket to Roman Reigns because he fits the criteria (Tall, head full of hair, muscular).
I think WWE gets a bad rap in general for the whole "telling stories" tag, but really all they're doing is putting into words what professional wrestlers have been doing since the beginning: using simulated violence to create a narrative. "High spots" by themselves are fairly worthless in a fake sport, unless they're properly used within the confines of a well-worked match with a strong narrative. Just hitting a bunch of spots in a row with no psychology might work on the indy scene with the hardest of the hardcore, but is likely to leave most causal fans cold after the initial excitement wears off.
I'm fine with unifying the two mid card titles. They haven't done jack shit with the us title so get rid of it and have Big E go on a long run with the IC belt.
Exactly! I would also throw in that the article was horribly written ("In some ways, this development is a little like kissing your sister, even for the most myopic fanboy..."), so even for a short read, it was rubbish.
"Yet the indy style workers in question that have been explicitly rejected is the ROH star-mold of excellent technicians who can use some high spots if necessary, but work a great mat-based style as well."
Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Antonio Cesaro, Sami Zayn, and for a limited time only, Chris Hero say hello.
My main takeaway was that Snowden seems to believe that every mark lives in a cave, barbecues field mice over a burning log and watches Raw on a 8" TV with rabbit ears attached while every fan with internet access worships at the altar of Daniel Bryan and CM Punk.
Shocking that as more people get internet access, the number of people you can describe as "Internet fans" grows.
they need to treat the titles as something every wrestler would want. i mean in the 90s occasionally youd have sting flair and other main eventers feuding for the us and tv titles and it worked. instead of making punk vs ambros non title, make it for the title and make punk care about winnign it.
The difference between 'Internet fans' and 'casual fans' is much blurrier than the author thinks it is, and the WWE has been making it blurrier for quite a while now with their web site and the WWE app. Everybody is on the internet now.
And as others said, I don't see why this seems to have any impact on their current product. Is RAW available on the internet-only? No. It's a prime time show on one of the biggest cable networks, and is still by far their biggest show. More people are going to watch it every week than are going to stream GAB '89 in a month. Their direction is still going to be driven by that for quite a while.
High spots can be a very effective part of the storytelling, but they aren't always used that way. Especially on the indy circuit. And I can't really blame the wrestlers - if you're wrestling in front of a crowd who has no idea who you are and you want to make a name for yourself then I can see why you'd go with highspots.
I get that, but I mean, was there a kayfabe explanation for what separated it from the US Title? Aside from the 10 or 15 minute time limit in all the TV Title matches, was it required that the champion defend the belt on every TV show where as with the US Title you get the luxury of not being forced to do that since it's a more prestigious title?
Again, I'm speaking from a pure kayfabe perspective.
"was it required that the champion defend the belt on every TV show where as with the US Title you get the luxury of not being forced to do that since it's a more prestigious title?"
TV title: Once every week and every major event, 10 minute time limit, upped to 15 on special occassions. U.S. Title: Every major event + occassional TV, length depends on holder (usually a 20-30 min. limit) World Title: Every major event + occassional TV, one hour time limit.
A belt's "level" was part wrestlers involved, part time limits, part name. While a Dusty or Tully could pull the TV title even with the U.S. title in the right feud, it would drop back sooner or later.
Wow, that was an a somewhat ignorant and blindly sexist article. Women can't be hardcore wrestling fans, why? Do they only cheer unironically because their ovaries compel them to scream for John Cena, or, as in his example, Lex Luger?
It also mistakes how the company should be marketing itself. The network SHOULD be marketed to hardcores, because they're the ones who will shell out the $120 a year to subscribe, while the main shows should be marketed to the casuals, because they're the ones that attract the advertisers. This is a smart marketing move on the part of WWE. Besides, there's enough extra content like Legend's House to market to casual fans. I can't see Internet nerds getting excited about watching Roddy Piper's hip decay as he hobbles around a fake reality TV environment, but it's exactly the kind of pap that casual fans and trash TV junkies would love.
Women certainly "can" be hardcore fans, but I also think it's probably safe to say that by and large they make up a smaller percentage of 'hardcore' fans (whatever that means nowadays).
Just look at this blog. While we obviously don't know the gender everyone who posts here, based on usernames and how people have described themselves, it does appear that there's very few (i.e. one) women who post here.
He did tear him apart, but at the same time he complimented his ability and effort in the ring. Pretty obvious he holds very little regard for him though.
similar example: I know two girls that love video games but would never choose a "female" screen name because they don't care about the usual stupid comments (from "whoa! you're pretty good for a girl!" to "you stupid c*** should be r*ped!").
I am already waiting for the first poster to state that he is not gonna get a WWE network suscription because he is tired of the blog "drooling" about.
The problem is that he automatically categorizes the two groups as separate because of gender, not because of other factors. He assumes a woman must be a casual fan because she's a woman. That second paragraph is awful.
Yeah, it's not a very good article. The 'hardcore' vs. 'casual' debate is one that goes on in a lot of environments. I know gaming forums have it. I imagine comic book forums have it as well. And the distinctions are generally not as simple and straightforward as they try to make it.
But that's not what happened with the Brand Extension (at least not at first). The Brand Extension was supposed to treat each show like it's own separate company with it's own main and secondary titles..
That's my point; the names you just listed are the types of wrestlers the company needs MORE of, not less. Yet they're bound and determined to move away from that ilk.
How about just learn more storytelling and psychology, in ADDITION to the wrestling. The crowd, diverse as it is, will ALWAYS appreciate good wrestling, ESPECIALLY when it's augmented by good psychology & storytelling. Christ I hope this shit turns around when Vince finally kicks it...at least just a little.
The first thing is to stop having the World Champion wrestle on TV so much. This way when he does show up it is treated like a special occasion. If he has to be there let him wrestle a dark match.) Then take make the US and IC champions get automatic title shots. Lastly make people care about them by having everyone go after them. If Cena is wrestling for the US title it should be treated like he's above it. It SHOULD be treated like he's going after a prestigious title. Punk isn't doing anything. Put the U.S. title on him and make him a workhorse champion like he was with the World title. He could elevate young talent by working with them.
I once made an AJ drinking my protein shake joke and it had like 18 downvotes. That's when I firmly solidified myself in jobbers "nobody white knights like the BoD" camp
I'm not nearly as sexist as is generally perceived here... but there is so much of that "White Knight" bullshit on here I go over the top with it just to irritate them... still don't like women all that much beyond the purposes they serve though.
Dude, guys who are overly protective or are "just friends" with women are guys who can't quite figure out how to close the deal. Like seriously, if you know you couldn't or already joked up with a chick, how much effort would you ever put into a "friendship.:
:stands tall like Hogan as the peasants throw garbage onto a top 5er::
Well I do have some female friends, that for whatever reason I have no desire to fuck or pursue fucking... that said if they called one night and said they wanted some meaningless sex, odds are I am in my car on the way over.
I realized along time ago there is NO reason to be just friend with girls. The girls you are friends with I'd bet you either wanted to or have hooked up with. The idea of just having a friend on the speed dual to talk or whatever is just odd to me
You'd need three people to pull it off, I think... One really big guy for support and two smaller guys for the actual acrobatics. I say two people because you'd want to jump into both guys I think.
Dbry springboard shooting star into Rollins and Reigns who are standing on the mat. Reigns "catches" DBry to slow him down, Dbry is now on his feet, and in one motion applies the headlock and falls back for the DDT to Rollins while Reigns falls backwards.
Wait. Is Dbry doing both the DDT and the Shooting Star in this scenario or is Rollins DDTing Dbry?
Actually, the APA are a team I'd trust with this, assuming that Ron Simmons is the one that "caught" you and you were applying the DDT to Bradshaw. Really almost anyone can be the "Shooting Star"
Are you sure those 18 downvotes were because of White Knighting or was it because it was an unfunny joke? Har har.
I still think the White Knight assertion is erroneous as it concerns the BoD. Can we classify people as White Knights when the people here weren't doing it to impress any female in sight--what women are here to impress (I've seen three accounts I could classify as female here out of the hundred or so names that have posted here)? It was how they actually felt and they voiced a concern over a sexist argument or double standard. What's wrong with that?
Now, if they give you a dissertation after a protein shake joke that is clearly not malicious or indicative of your outlook on life and women, then yeah, that person may be the prototypical "white knight" who doesn't know when to pick his battles. Otherwise, I despise generalizing people.
There is a good reason for that. Who in the hell would of taken their girlfriend or wife to an ECW show? That would be frickin crazy. You would spend the whole time trying to protect her from all the crude comments. A brawl would certainly happen at some point.
I only went to one ECW show (99 Anarchy Rulz) and didn't even consider bringing my wife.
That was a weird crowd all around. Usually when I go to an indy show I try (and usually fail) to watch my mouth because there's a lot of kids, often with their mothers. They have beer ($2 a pint, best deal in town though all they have is Labatt), but no one is getting plastered or anything. N2R99 was like a gigantic frat party, pretty much nothing but 16-25 year old men, and basically everyone was trashed. Because there was barely any security at all people were just openly drinking liquor and smoking blunts right at their seats. I'm not really surprised that they weren't invited back.
I remember there was a match at one of the PPVs where the crowd got so bored that they started chanting "show your tits" at some chick in the crowd. Had she done it she probably would have got one of the loudest pops in wrestling history. And the only time I'd ever try to bring a GF to a wrestling show is if I was actually on the card.
Come to think of it I do remember some chick making a post during one of the WM threads, but I might have scared her off with some comment like "Holy shit, we just doubled our amount of female commentators!"
Learn less wrestling and more storytelling. Can't they learn both? Isn't it important to be diverse?
ReplyDelete1. Batista is still confirmed for the Rumble. sigh.
ReplyDelete2. I actually like having two secondary belts under one primary belt. There is a lot of roster right now.
3. Weirdly enough, that's solid. advice for virtually any career actually.
4. Anyone else think that the WWE really missed out on a chance with Hero? Or was there just no chance to make money off of the guy?
The InterState title? I sort of liked having two secondary belts also, but it seems pretty obvious that they don't know how to book secondary champs, so maybe this will help.
ReplyDelete"learn less wrestling and more storytelling"
ReplyDeleteThese should be one & the same. Wrestling IS storytelling, when done properly. See Bryan, Daniel.
Of course, the main advice for any aspiring wrestler is to learn less wrestling.
ReplyDeleteHow long before we start referring to wrestlers as storytellers?
I see it more as "Less Spot-Monkeys, learn how to tell a story in the ring"
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd use the US title much like they used the TV title in WCW, where a newcomer would come in and win the belt and if they get over with that they can go after the IC title and if they get over with that, they can go to the main event scene.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of the TV title is totally expired. Back in the day, most titles were only defended on house shows or PPVs. These days, EVERY title is a "TV Title".
ReplyDeleteSee, I get what they are talking about: stop focusing on cramming high spots and learn more psychology. I agree. That said, should everyone have the same cookie-cutter offense? Should nobody have any unique, high-impact moves?
ReplyDelete"Stay the fuck off twitter or don't be dumb on twitter. " preach it HHH, preach it!
ReplyDeleteThis is a HHH idea I can support 100%.
ReplyDelete... if it is his idea.
ReplyDeleteYea, I have no Ide obviously but I'd assume if someone was asked to get this statement public, it was sent from the top down
ReplyDeleteIs the World title defended on EVERY Raw? Or the IC title?
ReplyDeleteTHAT is what a "TV Title" is. 10-15 minutes GUARANTEED every week, hopefully used in a good, entertaining match between guys who have NO business in the main scene yet. It gives them a chance to be on TV, under less pressure, and develop into the stars of the future.
Does every "TV champ" work out? No, see Prince Iaukea. But even if you "only" get 50% success... that's a LOT of talent to work with the Cenas, Punks, Ortons, Bryans, etc... of the world in the future.
This guy is way off. The ultimate triumph of the internet fan base will be a 2 year Daniel Bryan title reign and the stoning of HHH on national tv
ReplyDeleteSo WWE can get money for old shows so they can continue putting out dull new content , ignoring any talent they don't want to push? Doesn't feel like a victory.
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered the kayfabe purpose of the TV Title. Was it that the TV champion only defended the belt on TV, but not house shows or large events (PPVs)? Where as the US and World Titles were rarely defended on TV and more prone to being defended at house shows or large events (PPVs)?
ReplyDeleteThe TV title was usually an "entry" or "low/mid" level belt that was defended on TV every week, and also saw action on PPV/house shows. Granted, it was held by some big names at times (Dusty, Tully/Arn as Horsemen...), but even then the TV matches were closer to squashes.
ReplyDeleteIf the WWE had a similar title today, I could see the recent IC/US title pictures being moved there, with those two belts moving up a little (especially if they would be merged...)
Don't get me wrong the Network is a great service but it doesn't address the issues most have with the current product.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean rename the US title into the TV title or anything. I mean in WCW, back when they had competent bookers, they had separate divisions for each title and each title was held at a hierarchy, so for instance Benoit would first win the TV then he won the US title before mixing it up in the main event scene. That's what's missing in WWE today: There's no structure and a jumbled mess of main eventers and jobbers with no strong midcard.
ReplyDeleteHHH: Yes, only I am unique.
ReplyDeleteFor hero, i think the negatives outweighed the positives. He didn't seem to connect with the crowds either from his NXT stuff, and none of his matches ( The Regal one aside) really stood out.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't lift any weights, there was no promise for that type of guy.
ReplyDeleteHHH has some solid ideas. He just needs to stop trying to get into the ring. Hopefully, he will develop massive stage fright so he has to stay backstage forever...
ReplyDeleteYet another strength of the Attitude Era:
ReplyDeleteWWF Heavyweight
Intercontinental
European/Hardcore
Sure, a guy might drop a level if the feud asked for it, but you could usually tell who was booked where by the belt level of his opponents. Nobody would confuse Val or D-Lo for a main eventer... unlike a good chunk of today's roster.
InterState title could work as a name, since WWE is slow at making main eventers anyway.
ReplyDeleteExactly, you solidified my point. Look at D-Lo, he started off as a jobber and slowly worked his way up to win the Euro title, he got over with that so he won the IC title and he got over with that and I'm sure he would of eventually mixed it up in the main event scene if the Droz incident didn't happen. This type of booking doesn't take in WWE or TNA for that matter these days.
ReplyDeleteThey seem high on Zayn and Neville. I would hardly call them Randy Orton 2.0 in the ring.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind seeing that actually, that HHH segment could get a lot of viewers to turn in.
ReplyDelete8.9 rating at least. Jobber would be tossing boulders at him
ReplyDeleteNot everyone works out, sure. A year ago when Fandango debuted, management were very high on the guy before it petered off. I think a great example would be Stunning Steve Austin, he came into WCW won the TV title almost immediately, got over with that, won the US title, also got over with that and was looking to feud with Flair in the main event scene before Hogan put a stop to it.
ReplyDeleteWhat? Why are they depushing Daniel Bryan? Ohhhhhhh WWE's gonna pay....Oh wait a minute, a network with hours of classic programming? You win this round WWE....
ReplyDeleteBut, HHH is his avatar.
ReplyDeleteI see psychology as part of learning the wrestling basics.
ReplyDeleteTo me high spots are actually more on the storytelling side of things. Only get into using them once you have a solid mat based game.
Psychology and wrestling go hand in hand for me, and storytelling comes from how you work in the ring. It should come naturally if you have two guys who know how to WRESTLE.
You know nothing, Jon Snowden.
ReplyDeleteSorry couldn't resist.
I can't take anything from bleacher report seriously.
ReplyDeleteFandango would have made a fine TV title holder, IMO. Not quite Honky-level heeling, but a mix of Honky and WCW Regal would have made him a better heel.
ReplyDeletesee ryback.
ReplyDeleteChange "stoning of" to "dropping of a Sixteen-Ton weight on", and I'd watch.
ReplyDeletei think with one title and a bloated roster there is room for 2 midcard titles, and they can definately build them up to respectibillity again, but they prob wont.
ReplyDeleteShould be an interesting next couple of weeks for Trollback.
ReplyDeleteThey really need to rank the titles. Two world champions was ridiculous but I have no problem with two midcard championships especially with a roster the size of the WWE's.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Even if Vince's opinion on him did wane, I'm sure Fandango could have been just fine as a strong midcarder. The TV title division would be a great spot for him and he could be used to put over a hot newcomer when the time called for it, like Langston.
ReplyDeleteI know Big E and Fandango have had a lot of matches together and didn't do much for Big E, but can you imagine Fandango having a long US title reign before Big E finally puts a stop to it Ultimate Warrior fashion.
That's exactly what they should have done with Fandango.
ReplyDeleteI think what he means by "less wrestling, more storytelling" is tone down the highspots and learn how to wrestle a decent match using the basics.
ReplyDeleteOr "dropping upside down in a car."
ReplyDeleteYou drop sixteen tons, and what do you get? Triple H over and Ric Flair in debt.
ReplyDeleteThat all seems like good advice actually. The whole-less moves is more-is a big difference between the Indys and the wwe.
ReplyDeleteCan that sixteen ton weight be in the shape of a sledgehammer? (just for irony sake)
ReplyDeleteThe network does feel like a personal triumph for me but I'm hesitant to open that article because I'll probably have to open a new page for every photograph.
ReplyDeleteI could really launch some cinder blocks at him
ReplyDeleteFuck a unification match. You know what I would like? Make the US title exclusive to that "WWE Main Event" show and have it be defended there week in and week out against mid-carders.
ReplyDeleteIt would be a step up from NXT. (Think Punch Out for NES)
The two titles are redundant. Isn't the US part of the area covered by the IC title? I mean as the IC champ you reign over a bigger area, right?
ReplyDelete"Less wrestling, more storytelling" is everything wrong with the WWE in a nutshell. Outside of a handful of wrestlers on the roster now, everyone wrestles the same homogenized style, and it makes for zero upward mobility. Psychology is an integral part of the business that's overlooked, but bringing in raw talent to train them in the 'WWE style' is just creative death.
ReplyDeleteKenta Kobashi vs. Samoa Joe is wrestling.
ReplyDeleteShawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker is storytelling.
Give the average WWE fan Joe/Kobashi and it will put them to sleep.
That's the difference.
Caveat: I didn't read the "stop cramming highspots" into the message, because of the company's shunning "indy-style workers". Yet the indy style workers in question that have been explicitly rejected is the ROH star-mold of excellent technicians who can use some high spots if necessary, but work a great mat-based style as well.
ReplyDelete... I'd have to think about it.
ReplyDeleteThat worked out so well the first time :)
ReplyDeleteThat seems to be what the point is. Learn a handful of spots that are unique to you, than you can do safely and effortlessly and work them into a 5-10 minute match. That's what Bryan does.
ReplyDeleteDon't copy 37 top rope tornado back breakers and springboard shooting star DDTs from a Mexican or Japanese match you saw on YouTube and build your matches using them all because we don't do that shit here.
But by that logic, IC and WWE World Global Universe are redundant, too. Three singles titles can work, with US < IC < World. It would take effort to establish US < IC though, so I doubt it would happen.
ReplyDeleteGive the "average" WWE fan anything past "The Cat In The Hat" and it'll put them to sleep.
ReplyDeleteVince might be a genius, but a fair chunk of that is just common sense... stuff that keeps Jerry Springer and Friends still on the air.
No buys on this one; the author makes the mistake of assuming that the only wrestling fans using the internet belong to the IWC/Smark community, and thus they'll be the only ones paying for the network. In reality, the company has ratcheted up its noncompliance to the fans wishes, and is already laying out long-term plans for people to push, the will of the fans be damned. If fan reaction could drive the engine as it largely did from 1996-2000 when the company HAD to compete, then you'd have CM Punk and Daniel Bryan wrestling for the title TONIGHT. Instead, let's bring back Batista and pair him off with Randy Orton, because it worked seven years ago, so why not now? Let's give John Cena another fifteen title reigns, and strap the rocket to Roman Reigns because he fits the criteria (Tall, head full of hair, muscular).
ReplyDeleteI am now picturing a "Springboard Shooting Star DDT" in my head. Please please PLEASE tell me that really exists!!!
ReplyDeleteYES! YES! YES!
ReplyDeleteWhile he might have connected in the indies, he was death on NXT. Nothing interesting about him except for his arm drag snark on Steamboat.
ReplyDeleteI think WWE gets a bad rap in general for the whole "telling stories" tag, but really all they're doing is putting into words what professional wrestlers have been doing since the beginning: using simulated violence to create a narrative. "High spots" by themselves are fairly worthless in a fake sport, unless they're properly used within the confines of a well-worked match with a strong narrative. Just hitting a bunch of spots in a row with no psychology might work on the indy scene with the hardest of the hardcore, but is likely to leave most causal fans cold after the initial excitement wears off.
ReplyDeleteNo doubt everyone was thinking the same. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with unifying the two mid card titles. They haven't done jack shit with the us title so get rid of it and have Big E go on a long run with the IC belt.
ReplyDeleteExactly! I would also throw in that the article was horribly written ("In some ways, this development is a little like kissing your sister, even for the most myopic fanboy..."), so even for a short read, it was rubbish.
ReplyDeleteHeh, Trollback.
ReplyDeleteHis articles will be interesting.
ReplyDelete"Yet the indy style workers in question that have been explicitly
ReplyDeleterejected is the ROH star-mold of excellent technicians who can use some
high spots if necessary, but work a great mat-based style as well."
Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Antonio Cesaro, Sami Zayn, and for a limited time only, Chris Hero say hello.
Yup.
ReplyDeleteMy main takeaway was that Snowden seems to believe that every mark lives in a cave, barbecues field mice over a burning log and watches Raw on a 8" TV with rabbit ears attached while every fan with internet access worships at the altar of Daniel Bryan and CM Punk.
Shocking that as more people get internet access, the number of people you can describe as "Internet fans" grows.
And brother got PAID to write that.
And we still can't get through a topic without someone whining about Daniel Bryan.
ReplyDeleteYeah, still trying to figure out how this is like kissing my sister.
ReplyDeleteNo, my first thought was Edward Snowden. Then Snowden from Catch 22.
ReplyDeletethan change the name to the tv title if thats your plan.
ReplyDeletethey need to treat the titles as something every wrestler would want. i mean in the 90s occasionally youd have sting flair and other main eventers feuding for the us and tv titles and it worked. instead of making punk vs ambros non title, make it for the title and make punk care about winnign it.
ReplyDelete1. Daniel Bryan doesn't get pushed.
ReplyDelete2. I can watch Beach Blast 1993 for $10.00 a month.
3. Therefore, Daniel Bryan will get pushed
That's some good logic!
But eliminating a title will mean one less person to do clean jobs on TV!
ReplyDeleteAlso, a legit question: When was the last time Dean Ambrose defended the US title?
Not at all. Secondary titles are not on the same level as whatever the main belts are. This has been established.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between 'Internet fans' and 'casual fans' is much blurrier than the author thinks it is, and the WWE has been making it blurrier for quite a while now with their web site and the WWE app. Everybody is on the internet now.
ReplyDeleteAnd as others said, I don't see why this seems to have any impact on their current product. Is RAW available on the internet-only? No. It's a prime time show on one of the biggest cable networks, and is still by far their biggest show. More people are going to watch it every week than are going to stream GAB '89 in a month. Their direction is still going to be driven by that for quite a while.
It's ironic.
ReplyDeleteHigh spots can be a very effective part of the storytelling, but they aren't always used that way. Especially on the indy circuit. And I can't really blame the wrestlers - if you're wrestling in front of a crowd who has no idea who you are and you want to make a name for yourself then I can see why you'd go with highspots.
ReplyDeleteEach show should just have their own title then, and then the WWE title would be the holy grail. And the tag titles of course.
ReplyDeleteupvote if when you read the title of the thread you immediately thought of 'the war is over!' announcement from the final ep of m*a*s*h
ReplyDeleteI thought of Vince being on Nitro
ReplyDeleteI've never been entirely sure why anyone has one.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4xeZALndq8
ReplyDelete'stay the fuck off of Twitter or don't be dumb on Twitter.'
ReplyDeletethats reserved for the main roster players like ryback
Considering Big E has been actually having title defenses, this is a smart move. WWE finally going back to the way things should be.
ReplyDelete'Learn less wrestling and more storytelling. Can't they learn both? Isn't it important to be diverse?'
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqc7CEE0ekE
'Give the "average" WWE fan anything past "The Cat In The Hat" and it'll put them to sleep.'
ReplyDeletesomebody call his mama
After all these years they'll be back to the wwe title, the ic title, and the tag title. I like it
ReplyDeleteWhat did he post?
ReplyDeleteThey could re brand the us title as the TV title.
ReplyDeleteBloated roster? The roster is the smallest it's been since 1997.
ReplyDeleteCornette absolutely shreds Steen on his new podcast.
ReplyDeleteLOOK AT ME! I'M IMPORTANT! MY MINDLESS DRIVEL DESERVES TO BE HEARD BY THE MASSES!
ReplyDeleteThat's why.
Keep this up, and you'll be forced to change your name.
ReplyDeleteIm embarrassed for lauhging out koud at this. Well done
ReplyDeleteThanks for clearing that up.
ReplyDeleteI agree. World Champ should travel between shows and give the top wrestler or secondary champ a title shot.
ReplyDeletequit downvoting me, flagg and random north koreans
ReplyDeleteGood for Cornette, given his awful run in ROH, I don't know that his stance on it's talent is the best
ReplyDeleteIf it means the occasional pic of Kim K in her thong I'm all for it.
ReplyDeleteI always liked the idea that IC is effectively the RAW Champion and US the SD Champ, think territories. Where the WWE title over sees both.
ReplyDeleteYou ever try to make chicken salad out of chicken shit?
ReplyDeleteAt least the title wasn't "Mission Accomplished"
ReplyDeleteThe shows become territories. I like it.
ReplyDeleteDon't really agree with the main point of the article but still well written and interesting.
ReplyDelete" the WWE has to come into the belly of the beast."
bad choice of words.
Your_Favourite_Loser take my advice.. Pull down your pants, and slide on the ice.
ReplyDelete"Don't be dumb on twitter"
ReplyDeleteIs such a thing possible?
White Thunder has hacked ABeyAnce1's disqus!
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, it's entirely possible that Snowden wants to kiss his sister. He's never said!! How can we know for sure?!
ReplyDeleteI work in social media to a certain degree, and I find twitter almost impossible to use or get any benefit from.
ReplyDeleteWell honestly don't "Intercontinental" and "World" mean the same thing pretty much?
ReplyDeleteThat's how I feel when I ejaculate into ODB.
ReplyDeleteHahahah
ReplyDeleteThe Brand Split is done, dead, ashes to ashes... so the titles need a different reason to be.
ReplyDeleteI get that, but I mean, was there a kayfabe explanation for what separated it from the US Title? Aside from the 10 or 15 minute time limit in all the TV Title matches, was it required that the champion defend the belt on every TV show where as with the US Title you get the luxury of not being forced to do that since it's a more prestigious title?
ReplyDeleteAgain, I'm speaking from a pure kayfabe perspective.
"was it required that the champion defend the belt on every TV show where as with the US Title you get the luxury of not being forced to do that since it's a more prestigious title?"
ReplyDeleteYep, thus the name of Television Title.
Not an exact formula, but close enough:
ReplyDeleteTV title: Once every week and every major event, 10 minute time limit, upped to 15 on special occassions.
U.S. Title: Every major event + occassional TV, length depends on holder (usually a 20-30 min. limit)
World Title: Every major event + occassional TV, one hour time limit.
A belt's "level" was part wrestlers involved, part time limits, part name. While a Dusty or Tully could pull the TV title even with the U.S. title in the right feud, it would drop back sooner or later.
Wow, that was an a somewhat ignorant and blindly sexist article. Women can't be hardcore wrestling fans, why? Do they only cheer unironically because their ovaries compel them to scream for John Cena, or, as in his example, Lex Luger?
ReplyDeleteIt also mistakes how the company should be marketing itself. The network SHOULD be marketed to hardcores, because they're the ones who will shell out the $120 a year to subscribe, while the main shows should be marketed to the casuals, because they're the ones that attract the advertisers. This is a smart marketing move on the part of WWE. Besides, there's enough extra content like Legend's House to market to casual fans. I can't see Internet nerds getting excited about watching Roddy Piper's hip decay as he hobbles around a fake reality TV environment, but it's exactly the kind of pap that casual fans and trash TV junkies would love.
5 Best Ways to Rape John Cena by Jesse Baker
ReplyDeleteWomen certainly "can" be hardcore fans, but I also think it's probably safe to say that by and large they make up a smaller percentage of 'hardcore' fans (whatever that means nowadays).
ReplyDeleteJust look at this blog. While we obviously don't know the gender everyone who posts here, based on usernames and how people have described themselves, it does appear that there's very few (i.e. one) women who post here.
In the wrestling context, try telling Zack Ryder that.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest sausage fest in the history of the world might be those ecw shows.
ReplyDeletei just read that diva cameron was spotted with ray j
ReplyDeleteWHAT ABOOT VINNIE?!
The fact that I think I have a 50/50 shot at predicting his #1 is disturbing.
ReplyDeleteI will... it isn't like he is busy being on television.
ReplyDeleteFor the record:
ReplyDelete#1: By Kane, with the prosthetic dong allegedly considered for his character in See No Evil.
Ugh. Now Ray is gonna make a sextape showing Cameron getting contaminated with his C-level splooge.
ReplyDeleteSort of what jdg said below me..
ReplyDeleteSaying that women CAN`T be hardcore fans is false.
Saying that, by and large, they are NOT, is true.
He did tear him apart, but at the same time he complimented his ability and effort in the ring. Pretty obvious he holds very little regard for him though.
ReplyDeleteif it makes its wwe debut, each week we'll be forced to hear cole and jbl joke about jbl did it when he was younger
ReplyDeleteThis one?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axW34yvxnag
Perhaps like a Brand Extension??
ReplyDeleteLess profanity + Stay the fuck off Twitter= mind blown
ReplyDeletealthough this also might have other reasons.
ReplyDeletesimilar example: I know two girls that love video games but would never choose a "female" screen name because they don't care about the usual stupid comments (from "whoa! you're pretty good for a girl!" to "you stupid c*** should be r*ped!").
I am already waiting for the first poster to state that he is not gonna get a WWE network suscription because he is tired of the blog "drooling" about.
ReplyDeleteI am not gonna get a WWE network suscription because I am tired of the blog "drooling" about!
ReplyDeleteThere, crossed it off for you.
The problem is that he automatically categorizes the two groups as separate because of gender, not because of other factors. He assumes a woman must be a casual fan because she's a woman. That second paragraph is awful.
ReplyDeleteWell yeah, but they could....end up just like that since it´s the WWE. Goddamnit. Nevermind then. You ain´t no fun.
ReplyDeleteHe basically says that he's a talented fat pain in the ass.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's not a very good article. The 'hardcore' vs. 'casual' debate is one that goes on in a lot of environments. I know gaming forums have it. I imagine comic book forums have it as well. And the distinctions are generally not as simple and straightforward as they try to make it.
ReplyDeleteBut that's not what happened with the Brand Extension (at least not at first). The Brand Extension was supposed to treat each show like it's own separate company with it's own main and secondary titles..
ReplyDeleteI'd just listened to that one a few weeks ago. He must be on a tour of podcasts tearing down Steen, then.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, Roman Reigns does have an awesome head of hair. Even Kevin Nash admires it.
ReplyDeleteI can't say that I've loved you all. But I've loved as many of you as I could.
ReplyDeleteThat's my point; the names you just listed are the types of wrestlers the company needs MORE of, not less. Yet they're bound and determined to move away from that ilk.
ReplyDeleteThat's like a third of the roster.
ReplyDeleteI figured as much but wanted to make sure. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteHow about just learn more storytelling and psychology, in ADDITION to the wrestling. The crowd, diverse as it is, will ALWAYS appreciate good wrestling, ESPECIALLY when it's augmented by good psychology & storytelling.
ReplyDeleteChrist I hope this shit turns around when Vince finally kicks it...at least just a little.
#5: Zach Ryder with the Tire Iron in the Parking Lot.
ReplyDeleteThe first thing is to stop having the World Champion wrestle on TV so much. This way when he does show up it is treated like a special occasion. If he has to be there let him wrestle a dark match.) Then take make the US and IC champions get automatic title shots. Lastly make people care about them by having everyone go after them.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena is wrestling for the US title it should be treated like he's above it. It SHOULD be treated like he's going after a prestigious title. Punk isn't doing anything. Put the U.S. title on him and make him a workhorse champion like he was with the World title. He could elevate young talent by working with them.
They should totally split up the Usos and team Jey with Rey. IT'S RIGHT THERE!
ReplyDeleteYou date anyone? C'mon, have some standards...
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I went to N2R 99, only women in the crowd were working the concession stand.
I don't really understand why you always have down votes. This is the most matter-of-fact statement ever.
ReplyDeleteHaters gonna hate.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure The Gabbo Show has that shit trademarked now so it'd be too risky for WWE.
ReplyDeleteI once made an AJ drinking my protein shake joke and it had like 18 downvotes. That's when I firmly solidified myself in jobbers "nobody white knights like the BoD" camp
ReplyDeleteIntercontinental is supposed to be the champion of North and South America. The belt always showed that shit wrong.
ReplyDeleteCan they be managed by Ray-J?
ReplyDeleteYou can't have a real conversation on that thing.
ReplyDeleteI'm not nearly as sexist as is generally perceived here... but there is so much of that "White Knight" bullshit on here I go over the top with it just to irritate them... still don't like women all that much beyond the purposes they serve though.
ReplyDeleteDude, guys who are overly protective or are "just friends" with women are guys who can't quite figure out how to close the deal. Like seriously, if you know you couldn't or already joked up with a chick, how much effort would you ever put into a "friendship.:
ReplyDelete:stands tall like Hogan as the peasants throw garbage onto a top 5er::
Well I do have some female friends, that for whatever reason I have no desire to fuck or pursue fucking... that said if they called one night and said they wanted some meaningless sex, odds are I am in my car on the way over.
ReplyDeleteI realized along time ago there is NO reason to be just friend with girls. The girls you are friends with I'd bet you either wanted to or have hooked up with. The idea of just having a friend on the speed dual to talk or whatever is just odd to me
ReplyDeleteHey, if you're looking for women in a old ECW crowd, you pretty much have to be willing to date anyone.
ReplyDeleteYou'd need three people to pull it off, I think... One really big guy for support and two smaller guys for the actual acrobatics. I say two people because you'd want to jump into both guys I think.
ReplyDeleteDbry springboard shooting star into Rollins and Reigns who are standing on the mat. Reigns "catches" DBry to slow him down, Dbry is now on his feet, and in one motion applies the headlock and falls back for the DDT to Rollins while Reigns falls backwards.
Wait. Is Dbry doing both the DDT and the Shooting Star in this scenario or is Rollins DDTing Dbry?
Actually, the APA are a team I'd trust with this, assuming that Ron Simmons is the one that "caught" you and you were applying the DDT to Bradshaw. Really almost anyone can be the "Shooting Star"
ReplyDeleteAre you sure those 18 downvotes were because of White Knighting or was it because it was an unfunny joke? Har har.
ReplyDeleteI still think the White Knight assertion is erroneous as it concerns the BoD. Can we classify people as White Knights when the people here weren't doing it to impress any female in sight--what women are here to impress (I've seen three accounts I could classify as female here out of the hundred or so names that have posted here)? It was how they actually felt and they voiced a concern over a sexist argument or double standard. What's wrong with that?
Now, if they give you a dissertation after a protein shake joke that is clearly not malicious or indicative of your outlook on life and women, then yeah, that person may be the prototypical "white knight" who doesn't know when to pick his battles. Otherwise, I despise generalizing people.
How are they moving away from that ilk?
ReplyDeleteBrand split or not, two shows is a good informal rule.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't think my jokes are funny, you obviously don't have the correct sense of humor.
ReplyDeleteThere is a good reason for that. Who in the hell would of taken their girlfriend or wife to an ECW show? That would be frickin crazy. You would spend the whole time trying to protect her from all the crude comments. A brawl would certainly happen at some point.
ReplyDeleteI only went to one ECW show (99 Anarchy Rulz) and didn't even consider bringing my wife.
That was a weird crowd all around. Usually when I go to an indy show I try (and usually fail) to watch my mouth because there's a lot of kids, often with their mothers. They have beer ($2 a pint, best deal in town though all they have is Labatt), but no one is getting plastered or anything. N2R99 was like a gigantic frat party, pretty much nothing but 16-25 year old men, and basically everyone was trashed. Because there was barely any security at all people were just openly drinking liquor and smoking blunts right at their seats. I'm not really surprised that they weren't invited back.
ReplyDeleteI remember there was a match at one of the PPVs where the crowd got so bored that they started chanting "show your tits" at some chick in the crowd. Had she done it she probably would have got one of the loudest pops in wrestling history. And the only time I'd ever try to bring a GF to a wrestling show is if I was actually on the card.
ReplyDeleteYou've seen 3?
ReplyDelete3? I can't think of anyone but Princess, and she's married (paging Parallax!).
ReplyDeleteSo he see himself in Steen?
ReplyDeleteCome to think of it I do remember some chick making a post during one of the WM threads, but I might have scared her off with some comment like "Holy shit, we just doubled our amount of female commentators!"
ReplyDeleteNaww.. If there's one thing that chicks DIG when they're in a crowd of men, it's having that fact loudly pointed out.
ReplyDelete