I'm back from the road. Had a two day stopover in Austin, TX on work-related stuff and it prevented me from posting a daily thread in a timely manner. I want to thank Mr. Bayless for stepping in and providing YOU, the BoD Universe, with a place to voice your well thought out opinions on the Network.
Highlights of the live stream today include a new episode of Old School from 10/20/84. It's a Maple Leaf Gardens card highlighted by a cage match between Andre the Giant and Kamala. Also tonight, a classic RAW: Vince McMahon buys WCW!
Highlights of the live stream today include a new episode of Old School from 10/20/84. It's a Maple Leaf Gardens card highlighted by a cage match between Andre the Giant and Kamala. Also tonight, a classic RAW: Vince McMahon buys WCW!
I finally got around to NXT Arrival last night. Holy shit, promote Sami Zayn to the main roster NOW so that he and Cesaro can tear the roof off of the Superdome for 15-20 minutes. I'm not sure how much Claudio and Generico fought in ROH, but they have fantastic chemistry.
ReplyDeleteGOD forbid they give the audience anything they want to see at the biggest PPV of the year.
ReplyDeleteWhy have I NEVER seen this Sensational Sherri vs Luna Vachon catfight on Raw from 1993?? They were going at each other and ripping off clothes years before it became a regular thing.. wow..
ReplyDeleteWatching Capital Carnage, which is a UK ppv I never saw and it has a good Rock/X-Pac match. Also, I completely don't remember stonecold throwing Paul Bearer head first into a sewer on raw.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what's up with UK crowds and incessantly using the air horn?
ReplyDeleteSo the Xbox login issues have been solved, but it's still not even close to fully functional. Most of the PPVs aren't available yet, and it was somewhat slow and clunky when I tried to fast forward last night. At least I have access to SOME stuff now.
ReplyDeleteIdea: Bryan/HHH is booked for 30, Bryan wins, Batista and Orton come out for the main event but right before the bell rings, Hogan comes out and adds Bryan to the match and he wins the title.
ReplyDeleteLast year still had The Rock, and Lesnar was still relatively fresh, and it was in the New York market (a PR bonus which i'd say outweighs any "30 is a nice round number" benefit.)
ReplyDeleteDoes a hated Batista and Hulk Hogan make up for no Rock? (And to a much lesser extent, no Punk.)
Exactly. Unique gets over in WWE, and Ambrose is unique as it gets. (Along with also seeming like a total pro.)
ReplyDeleteWatching WrestleWar '91. WTF?!?! This was around the time I started getting in to wrestling, but only the WWF. What would ever prompt WCW to run a big show in Phoenix? I mean, these were still somewhat territorial days in terms of the level of passion in the fanbase, and the arena's half empty and LIT TO SHOW THE EMPTINESS. Also, the lights go out part way through the show and they need to throw spotlights on the ring. Because WCW, I suppose...
ReplyDeleteIt's a soccer (football) thing. Fans have been bringing them to those matches forever, and it's just carried over into wrestling, I think...
ReplyDeleteHe's right
ReplyDeleteThe 2002-2006 era showed that PG's not the problem. If the story lines and characters are boring, nobody will care regardless of edgy content.
ReplyDeleteI liked the finish
ReplyDeleteHey Princess, only $800/night!!
ReplyDeleteI forgot about the 'Fruitcake' chant. Classy stuff, 80s fans.
ReplyDeleteThe source was someone he had known for 20 years
ReplyDeleteLoved them but as a solo face, he does suck.
ReplyDeleteShelley was always the more charismatic of the two.
The legend was The Brooklyn Brawler! Lol jk
ReplyDeleteKeller is a really nice guy--i spoke to him many times And he seriously was a huge wrestling fan growing up and made a careerout of it. I certainly enjoy him more than Alvarez.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure why people say it has to be one way or the other. As someone said below, give us the angles, promos, and storylines of the late 90's early 00's with the wrestling on Raw today and you would have a fantastic show.
ReplyDeleteShemus/Christian is a perfect example. Wrestling was good, but what are the feuding for? Why did Christian turn heel? What does he have against Shemus? Cut out one divas segment (Or emma) and have Christian explain himself. 10 minutes of that is enough to get fans to say "oh yeah, I see why you are a jerk christian. booooooo."
The roster and the circumstances. No tippy-top guys other than Austin, HBK, and Undertaker, leaving a vacuum at the top. As soon as someone got over, they were pushed, almost out of necessity. Of course, this led to guys working harder and harder to get themselves over and (this is key) actually being rewarded when they did.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it worked really well--Foley, Rock--and sometimes it didn't--the Outlaws as singles champs--but at the very least, it was interesting.
And by the time the in-ring product started to catch up with the promos (late '99-early 2000), they were firing on all cylinders.
The business was much different then, they would use TV to get you to see the house shows. Not much angle advancement and enough wrestling to tie you over so that you want to pay to see them when they came to town
ReplyDeleteOne thing that annoys me is whenever there's some sort of complicated storyline, I keep hearing "Why can't they just fight about who is the better man?" But when there IS something like that, I hear "Why are they even fighting? What is the point?" A perfect example is Brock/Taker at this year's WM is simply a "mano-a-mano" fight, and I keep hearing "what's the point?" or "Lazy booking". But add something to it and it would be "Why complicate it? Why not just fight to prove they're the best?"
ReplyDeleteBut that hasn't even been established between Christian/Shemus. Brock/Taker sold me the second Taker stabbed Brock's hand with a pen. Plus those two have previous history at the UFC event, so its not like they need a lot of build up. However, most stars do. And is it that hard for a "I don't like you." promo?
ReplyDeleteFlair probably doesn't have a spot in the Attitude Era, but I think he would have been a positive in 1995 and 1996. And for the hate you mention, they were at least willing to work together in 1998 back when Bret first arrived in WCW.
ReplyDeleteYes...not saying everyone here drinks the same Kool-aide.
ReplyDeleteWhen was the smark meeting so I know what it's ok to like again?
ReplyDeleteTony Garea
ReplyDeleteAlvarez is awful for letting his friend Vinny make it to air. That guy is the fucking worst.
ReplyDeleteHow is he a hack?
ReplyDeleteVince Jordan, Stan Ford, John Cole and I talk via Skype every morning before you post to discuss what our collective stance is, I'll send you our meeting notes ;)
ReplyDeleteThe rock vs cena rematch was the laziest booked feud in wrestling history. They literally did nothing to hype the match
ReplyDeleteWhile the number of direct comparisons to the current-day product in this rant indicates we're looking at it with some slightly rose-colored "wasn't it better in *my* day as a 20-something" glasses =), there's definitely some lessons they could take to the current product as Mick talks about below. Everyone has something to do, and in situations where the match looks like it'll be terrible, it's short and then moves onto something else, so at least things are fresh and there's a story behind almost everything.
ReplyDeleteThe whole "I never thought I'd see the day that long, solid wrestling matches would be considered terrible" debate makes me think that Russo was partially right; while people like a good match, without the emotional investment behind it there's little draw for many people, Scott inclusive.
I would note that a lot of performers of that era (possibly also looking at it from the "it was better in my day" perspective) also have said that the talent pool at WWE isn't what it once was (Austin especially has been pretty vocal about it). It's possible that the '98 stuff was more fun because they simply had more charismatic talent.
Part of it is that in 98 you had territory guys. The standardization of everything has taken a lot away. Pro wrestling, at its core, is performance art. Unique performers are being taken away and new WWE molded performers are taking their place.
ReplyDeleteBill James talks about the same thing has already happened in baseball. If Bob Gibson came up today, the first thing his HS coach would do was to change his throwing motion. If that didn't work, his college coach would, if he got drafted his minor league coach would damn sure make his motion change, or Gibson wouldn't get called up. So today we end up with a lot of pitchers who's windups and deliveries look pretty much the same and a lot of the unique deliveries have vanished. (Or in baseball, they come from Japan, same in wrestling)
Heh, it's funny because I actually had relatives in that cult and word on the streets is the cheap bastards actually used Flavor-Aid.
ReplyDeleteYes they did.
ReplyDeleteBecause it's better for business if we don't get too much good wrestling. Something is only special if it's rare. There were times, when we only had 4-5 PPVs a year and during the weekly shows only jobber matches BUT the stars were much more over and a star vs star match meant something. Today we get a title change of the tag team titles during the midcard of RAW and 4 days later nobody cares about.
ReplyDeleteIt'd be nice if they went all-in on Bryan, but they already have a proven, big-drawing babyface. His name's John Cena.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, the "Hogan does appearances to promote TNA and never mentions TNA" complaints were happening before Bubba the Love Sponge, and his wife, screwed the Hulkster.
ReplyDeleteCosign. Terri and Sunny were unbeatable.
ReplyDeleteI think everybody loved SCSA. He truly transcended, in the US at least.
ReplyDeleteMarket cap of WWE exceeded two billions dollars for the first time ever today.
ReplyDeleteIt was more a general observation than arguing with you.
ReplyDeleteFor how much longer? Personally, I don't want to see anyone injured.
ReplyDeleteBUT, in a hypothetical sense, I do want to see how WWE would deal with no Cena for AT LEAST 9-12 months.
My bad then
ReplyDeleteStarrcade being in Dec is crammed in with all the holidays where people are distracted and busy with other things then to worry about a wrestling show. I agree with him. WWE has always used dec as a throwaway type month too. Its not the time year to be trying to have your hottest show of the year
ReplyDeleteDef misinterpreted you. MAY BAD!
ReplyDeleteFlair as Vince's suit- wearing corporate champion fighting Austin might have worked.
ReplyDeleteWe had lots of enhancement matches on St. Louis shows, which were pretty awesome because we got to see the Von Erich Claw. Old WWF and Crockett were a whole new world for me; we didn't really have feuds. It's just how corny these old WWF angles are watching them as an adult. Around 1986 things got much better.
ReplyDeleteIf they put the title on Bryan for longer than 24 hours, the company goes bankrupt immediately.
ReplyDeleteSo a developmentally disabled version of JCP booking is leading WWE to new heights of profitability. Part of me wonders if doing competent JCP booking would be better or worse.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. You gotta have hardcore fans before you have casual fans! TNA is run like a parody of how we think the WWE is run.
ReplyDeleteBischoff felt Superbrawl was the best slot for a show according to the observer and given the success the UFC has had with piggybacking the Superbowl he's probably right.
ReplyDeleteTNA's idea of having their big PPV in October and WWE's idea of running two in October is absolutely insane. You are in the middle of football season, the world series, and hockey and basketball are ramping up or about to begin - add to that everything on TV is in new episodes after the summer off and the UFC having fairly strong cards and you have a full retard plan. I hear the current powers that be in TNA finally are de-emphasizing BFG in favor of Lockdown.
Now that WWE doesn't really have to pop each PPV I kinda hope they bring back concepts and WCW show names. There is no reason to do "Battleground" instead of "Halloween Havoc", y'know?
They didn't even release the 94 one on an official VHS which frustrated me to no end as a kid because I badly wanted to see the Vader/Flair rematch.
ReplyDeleteOver a million buys for UFC 168 and Starrcade 97 and 98 did awesome box office. People forget the Holidays are...especially after Christmas...kinda boring; and a lot of people are burning the vacation they have left from work with nothing to do. WWE even uses one of their more over nothing PPV concepts with TLC in that month.
ReplyDeleteOnce you open the presents on Christmas or eat turkey and watch football on Thanksgiving what is left to do?
ReplyDeleteThe UFC floods the market with advertisements to make up for not having weekly TV and have heavily increased the amount of free fight nights to hype PPV shows. I think honestly their advertising is a mess and Joe Blow watching cops has no idea what a Renan Barao is let alone why he should pay 60 bucks to watch it.
ReplyDeleteUFC's "Convention" event is 4th of July where a lot of people go travel.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a hardcore UFC fan so I might be off base here, but I think the problem is that they've oversaturated the market with too many PPV's/PPV quality cards on Fox. I feel like a lot of the newer guys are just not nearly as popular as individual draws as guys like Anderson Silva, GSP, Couture, Liddell, etc. It seems like UFC is obsessed with making UFC the draw as opposed to the individual fighters. For a casual fan like myself who generally only watches when there's a big fight or a big PPV, I find myself less interested in UFC than I was a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't give him much and by the point they tried he just didn't give ANY shits. Sabin just doesn't care anymore.
ReplyDeleteShelley was the high-spot/charismatic guy, but Sabin was the better wrestler. He did most of the work in matches and was one of the crispest high-fliers ever in his prime.
For a long time my only interest in TNA was MCMG, the KOs (Namely Sarita, Flash, Wilde and Kong), AJ Styles and Beer Money. They managed to destroy and ruin every single aspect of my fandom and for that I will always hate and despise them.
Agree that Sabin is the better wrestler. Even when he first appeared in TNA he was blowing just about everyone else in the X Division out of the water
ReplyDeleteThe problem I think actually is that the FOX cards aren't PPV quality. They've basically used them as a showcase for Benson Henderson and Demetrious Johnson, two fighters who work a fast pace but not terribly exciting style and have a personality that turns the crowd off. What is absolutely insane to me is that when someone becomes just insanely over like Khabib Nurmagomedov or Travis Browne right now they drag them through an endless contendership ladder instead of getting them a big fight that might make them some money. Everybody you listed is retired or on hiatus and they've had a big problem filling those shoes. Also; many of the existing stars just weren't giving those up and coming guys fights - it's sort of the MMA equivalent of "not putting someone over".
ReplyDeleteFUJI!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's a shame that the chances of him making big money are pretty much nil.
ReplyDeleteSo do I. I listened to both on Austin's podcast and Keller just came off as so much more real to me.
ReplyDeletehe didnt like that flair was more popular than hogan, also flair no showed a couple of times and eric thought ric needed to be made an example of now they are quite close
ReplyDeleteflair didnt hate hart until wcw, brett and flair were quite close in wwf
ReplyDeletehart and hogan theres heat there for at least 20 years dude ask bret
ReplyDeletehogan abused creative control regardless what he or bischoff will admit to publicly the guy was one of the reasons wcw didnt last
ReplyDelete