Right now, the Chicago Objectives list is out (see below). We want CM Punk back. And we want Daniel Bryan in the main event.
So what happens if you get CM Punk back and they put him in the main event instead of Daniel Bryan? How would Chicago react to that? How would you react to that?
Remember, if the Internet is to be believed, CM Punk left because he feels he deserves a main event opportunity and won't get it. So odds are if he's coming back, it's to be in the main event of WrestleMania. And we all know he'd be there at Daniel Bryan's expense.
(Interestingly, if the WWE canonizes this, they could possibly kill the hijacking. "Oh, you want CM Punk back and you want Daniel Bryan in the main event? CHOOSE. Because you can't have both.")
So discuss.
So what happens if you get CM Punk back and they put him in the main event instead of Daniel Bryan? How would Chicago react to that? How would you react to that?
Remember, if the Internet is to be believed, CM Punk left because he feels he deserves a main event opportunity and won't get it. So odds are if he's coming back, it's to be in the main event of WrestleMania. And we all know he'd be there at Daniel Bryan's expense.
(Interestingly, if the WWE canonizes this, they could possibly kill the hijacking. "Oh, you want CM Punk back and you want Daniel Bryan in the main event? CHOOSE. Because you can't have both.")
So discuss.
That's the thing. Cranky Man Punk might only come back for the title match but Bryan vs. HHH makes sense anyway
ReplyDeleteOh you guys...
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of this. And I think much of the protestation will be negated if Punk shows up. But I also don't think they're going to ruin the show; the more crowd interaction, the better.
ReplyDeleteAnd in the hypothetical that this "movement" is successful, I think the parts about Ziggler, The Shield and the Wyatts indicate that they don't plan on dumping on undeserving targets.
I actually did that drive many years ago to check out Illinois when I got accepted there. Flew into Chicago and we drove the three hours. It was probably the worst drive of my life that didn't include being hungover.
ReplyDeleteDude. Punk, Bryan, Benoit, Eddie...what's the one thing that unites all of those title reigns? By all means, what a bunch of crazy assholes that they think the world champion should be treated as such on the card.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with shoehorning Punk into the main event and putting Bryan with HHH, SO LONG AS HHH puts Bryan over clean and this leads to Scott''s suggested series of Bryan v. Punk for the title.
ReplyDeleteHow long ago did the tickets go on sale? If I bought tickets in, let's say, November, and have seen all of my favorites get shit on repeatedly since that time, then yeah, I'm going to go and protest. It's a different matter if I bought the tickets last week.
ReplyDeleteI've been a fan of Punk's for years, but if it came down between him and DBry, then fuck him.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the Bryan storyline, it seemed like a Bryan/Punk Mega Powers-like story would develop but that seems much less likely now
ReplyDeleteThere was room for rock and Austin. Theres room for punk and Bryan.
ReplyDeleteYOU LOVE IT!
ReplyDeleteHe was treated as top dog, he was the champion. For more than a year. He had a longer reign than any wrestler currently working.
ReplyDeleteThere's no winning here, because the biggest push anyone has gotten in the last 15 years...will still somehow be a burial.
"Oh, you want CM Punk back and you want Daniel Bryan in the main event? CHOOSE. Because you can't have both."
ReplyDeleteTHE FUCK WE CAN'T! WE PAY YOUR DAMNED SALARY!!!
Had there ever been a time when how we was being used wasn't criticized I might might bite on this point.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing I'd add regarding HHHatred vs Punk bias is that, and this isn't a novel idea or anything... HHH basically owns the company. Or at least, he's married to the daughter of the owner. Either way HHH wields a HUGE amount of power in teh company. So when HHH goes over opponent after opponent against the fan's wishes, he's gonna catch more heat because of the power he holds. He's in the room making the booking decision to go over Jericho or RVD. He's a decision maker who, surprise surprise, decided it'd be best if two straight years of Raw start with 20-minute HHH circle jerk promos.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah, a guy in HHH's position is going to catch a lot more flak from certain fans because he has such a powerful management position in the company.
It's a lot harder for me to place blame on someone in Punk's position, who really does have to play hardball to survive (or get what he wants). Punk and guys like him are fighting from underneath, while HHH is fighting from above. So in that respect, I think you shouldn't find it quite so ridiculous that fans will be harder on HHH when he politics and goes over guys because hell, he's in such a powerful position already.
It's more like if I bought a smartphone and every time I tried to purchase an app, it gave me a completely different one. And instead of having multiple smartphone options (iPhone, Android, Windows), it's either the phone I have or an old $0.99 Nokia.
ReplyDelete"He" being "the champion," as replied to? Okay.
ReplyDeletedp dp
ReplyDeleteIt's not 411 until somebody posts a badly misspelled racist comment or a tacky joke about somebody dying.
ReplyDeleteTell that to Punk. Tell him that, if he comes back, he can't be in the main event because the fans want Bryan in the main event.
ReplyDeleteWatch him stay home.
When some lower card guy gets a little push and the crowd starts a Randy Savage chant, then that is death for them. It's tough enough to get over new guys as it is and I wish the fans would not make it any harder
ReplyDeletePunk's insertion into the main event is really not at Bryan's expense. It is clear that they never intended to put either of them in the main event in the first place--Punk was destined to fight Triple H, with Bryan being involved with Kane, Sheamus, or the Wyatt Family. If anything, Punk leaving and coming back, along with the crowd's reaction to Batista, forced WWE to move them both up the card.
ReplyDeleteRacism, tacky jokes, and 3 anti-smark gimmicks all yelling at each other - it's the 411 way.
ReplyDeleteHeh.
ReplyDeletehttp://botchedspot.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/03/2014-03-03-hijacked.jpg
NERDS!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSorry, it felt good getting that out.
The same belt that has been called worthelss by the people saying Punk was clearly treated as top dog if he had it
ReplyDeleteRemember when the Wyatts took out both Punk and Bryan and, while some wrong people were complaining, others were saying "Well Punk/Bryan vs. wyatts ought to be awesome." then they kind of stopped.
ReplyDeleteIt IS beneath him.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the temperature of the human body, if that was still ice water Justin is right and you should see a doctor
ReplyDeleteYeah, Cena doing the old superman routine and beating Bray at Mania is pointless and does nothing for anybody. Cena can get a win in a gimmick match at Extreme Rules.
ReplyDeleteYeah he mentioned that on the LAW podcast. I dunno.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't they be cheering the now heel Batista if they want to rebel?
ReplyDeleteThat would be incredible.
ReplyDeleteTortured Porsche sounds like a ska band
ReplyDeleteI just wish the crowd would shit on any Undertaker-Lesnar segments. To me it's the definition of boring, same old shit.
ReplyDeleteLive thread may hit 3000 tonight
ReplyDeleteI can only go by the words I see used here every day, and for over a year it was burial. I quite enjoyed the Punk reign and thought there wasn't much else anyone could ask for. Boy was I wrong.
ReplyDeleteI see where you're coming from, but I think it's an awful place to be in for everyone. Most of the crowd likely bought their tickets months ago expecting CM Punk at the very least. The WWE would love nothing more than to deliver him to the crowd, but then the current mess happened. Sure, the WWE could offer refunds, but that would be a HUGE financial hit and they're selling the brand, not the individual performers. On the other hand, the crowd bought their tickets and can act more or less however they want.
ReplyDeleteIf Punk does walk out, everyone will be very happy. If he doesn't, there's a huge mess and I don't know what anyone can do about that. WWE has a lot of passionate fans in Chicago. I think some of them organizing chants and protests is a bit...over the top....but it's their money and their ticket.
I swear to you, if I was a pro wrestler the internet getting behind me would be the very last thing I wanted.
ReplyDeleteThe IWC is to the WWE what Tebow fans were to the NFL, not worth the fucking hassle.
When I was younger, I really wanted to watch all of the matches on Scott's Best 20 Matches of the 90's list (both WCW and WWF), so now I'm finally on a mission to do that, starting with WCW. First up - Flair vs. Vader Starrcade 93. What a great fight. But, I remember in the rant Scott said the ending was botched pretty badly, but even knowing that the ending was botched, I still didn't really think it was much of a botch. Flair grabbed his leg, Vader tripped and fell back, and Flair jumped on top. Was it supposed to be something different?
ReplyDeleteThe IWC is not a fucking thing.
ReplyDeleteAnd the entire arena, night after night, is not a niche fan thing
Undertaker has been getting the "What?" treatment the past couple years.
ReplyDeleteWhat a dog shit finish to flair vs Rhodes at starrcade 84! Anyone seen that match. It was getting really good and they stop because dusty was bleeding too bad from getting tossed into a ring post. Who books that as a finish to the biggest show? Wow I would have been pissed at that finish.
ReplyDeleteOver/Under 2975
ReplyDeleteYes it is, most of my family watches this and they don't spend all day on the web freaking out that some guy is getting buried with a 16-month long title reign. The IWC does. Every single day, all day, all year. Regardless of what's happening, you can count on this group to dislike it.
ReplyDeleteWe aren't the majority and never, ever have been.
Steve Stennick has multiple accounts?
ReplyDeleteBatista should come out to Cult of Personality just to fuck with the crowd. You might actually get the late-90s WCW treatment where a drunk fan rushes the ring.
ReplyDeleteDid dusty ever get revenge on Joe Frazier?
ReplyDeleteThat would get massive heel heat. Don't know if WWE wants to do that tonight though. It could get ugly
ReplyDeleteTrust me the 1984 BoD equivalent would have been pissed. That match was gonna be really good.
ReplyDeleteHey, Chicago - you paid your money, they don't give a frog's fat ass about your "organized attempt" at derailing the show. Seriously? This is what it has come to?
ReplyDeleteSTOP BUYING TICKETS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PRODUCT!
Gee, I think the formula used now for Coca-Cola is terrible! Let me buy a case, stand outside of their headquarters and protest while drinking it!
I think the product sucks too. I don't give it money (Network not withstanding) and I certainly don't go to its shows. It reeks of "look, we can be part of the show too!"
Oh, and the spyware... musnt forget that
ReplyDeleteDouchetista with sunglasses and a bruise behind them is fucking awesome.
ReplyDeletePuerto Rico ugly.
ReplyDeleteIf you open it up an hour early, we can meet Mike's prediction.
ReplyDeleteLike I said earlier, this isn't a zero-sum game wherein our love for a returning Punk is cannibalized by our love for Bryan, or vice versa.
ReplyDeleteI see where some are coming from that it's kind of a bummer if Punk- whether this is a work or shoot- can waltz right back in and be slotted into the WM main event while Bryan doesn't get the title match, but a dual main event of Bryan and Punk conquering the status quo/Authority is great to me no matter which one is slotted in which spot.
Punk is JUST enough to satisfy the fans. Don't underestimate how much momentum he might get after taking this hiatus.
ReplyDeleteExcept the "IWC" NO LONGER GAS A COMMON OPINION.
ReplyDeleteSome love technical.
Some love hardcore.
Some beleive Bret
Some beleive shawn
Some love the attitude era.
Some hate it.
The word IWC has become shorthand for "wrestling fan whose opinion I don't like. It's horribly misued by a group of people who likely didn't even have the internet when the term was founded
As I have mentioned earlier today, they can do this *ONLY* if Punk is actually there.
ReplyDeleteWith AJ as Miss Elizabeth!
ReplyDeleteExcept there ARE things that are worth paying to see. Bryan, Shield, the Wyatts, Ziggler, Real Americans (especially Cesaro). It's primarily the main event scene that they're rebelling against and rightfully so.
ReplyDeleteAfterthoughts don't have crowds chanting for them when they aren't there.
ReplyDelete:Obama upon finding out what the hijacking is about:
ReplyDelete"Idiots."
Let Punk insert himself into a diva. Give Bryan the main event.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. I haven't been compelled to buy in quite a while - because any time I get on board with someone, they fuck it up. So, to me...there isn't anything worth buying at all.
ReplyDeleteDude, I've seen you say this before. It's evolved into a term for "uber smart fan/insider." It's not a literal Internet Wrestling Fan term
ReplyDeleteWell first off Andy, and I posted this elsewhere it doesn't have to be Punk or Bryan. Make it an elimination 4 way....or a 4 way if bryan beats HHH. As I said before you have all three other guys team up and destroy randy and then Punk Bryan can work a great match while taking some power moves from Grandpa Dave between Batista Breathers. Eventually they team up and eliminate Dave "Can't...can't breathe" Batista leading to the HOLY SHIT, THIS IS AWESOME crowdgasm.
ReplyDeleteI love love love Bryan but even if it is just Punk in the main event and not Bryan....it's not Bryans spot to take. This is still a worked business and Vince/HHH still say who does what when and they haven't called on Bryan to be in the main at mainia so its not Punk taking his spot. No matter how Punk may or may not get to that main event it still has nothing to do with Bryan. Punk did something that Bryan currently doesn't seem willing to do and that is to walk away and say if you want me you play by my rules. Someday the WWE with either get it ..or Bryan might have to do the same thing, but Andy this Us vs. Them Punk/Bryan thing you have been pushing is a big reach.
Just wondering....how does Daniel Brian win the title at WM with CM Punk in the main event? 4 way?
ReplyDeleteThe post was not specifically referencing you. I would address you only if I was.
ReplyDeleteI could swear I was posting in a thread headlined by a flyer advertising a common opinion...
ReplyDeleteIt can be whatever shorthand to you that you want it to be, for me it's very clearly a group of fans that can't ever be happy, even when their guy is champion of the company longer than anyone else in decades.
Like the Tebow fans, they know exactly what they want until they get it, then move on to the next gripe.
Like I said, I'd hate having us on my side. Trying to work your career and make it in the business and all your bosses have to hear about day in and day out from know-nothings online is how amazing I am and how I should be the future of the company. It would only ever cause problems I'd think.
"I love love love Bryan but even if it is just Punk in the main event and not Bryan....it's not Bryans spot to take."
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, but tell that to the Chicago hijack movement. That's my point.
The fantasy booking says he beats HHH to get added to the match.
ReplyDeleteThe vader moonsault is incredible
ReplyDeleteYou know.
ReplyDeleteWatching wrestling shouldn't be this hard.
Raw agravates me.
So I don't watch it, and I don't buy their network.
But I first went through the mindset the hijackers are in, convinced fan dissaproval would change them. It didn't, so I left.
Makes me wonder when, if ever, the hijackers will pack up and leave for good.
(To be clear, pushing my guy is not in and of itself enough to make me watch raw again. If the writing of a show is shit, it doesn't matter how great the actors are)
Ugh. I don't even know where to start. End doesn't justify the means here or mean that he didn't act like a dick.
ReplyDeleteThis.
ReplyDeleteFor all the gnashing of teeth of the mistreatment of Bryan since Summerslam, it's absolutely made him more popular. The dissent is born from him being SO close to being The Guy. Meanwhile, Punk spent the fall in the midcard with Heyman, Axel and Ryback.
The notion that Bryan has lapped Punk in terms of popularity is, ironically, informed by Bryan being so much higher on the card for most of the last year while Punk has taken two medium-length breaks and aside from Lesnar, been in the midcard more or less. It's recency bias.
This is in no way a shot at Bryan, who I love almost as much as the next guy (Punk will always come first to me, so I admit my own bias here). And he's very much the zeitgeist-y wrestler of today, while it feels like that time has come and gone for Punk.
But this is wrestling, and it can change in one night.
Watching Legends of Wrestling Roundtable on Factions. Ric Flair is one of the greatest of all time...but he is so full of shit. Making fun of Shane Douglass for working at Walmart (not that Shane doesn't deserve a good ribbing) as if Flair is so stable in his income...what an ass.
ReplyDeleteShades on. Mic in hand.. Batista then says "Oh you were expecting someone else? Well he's not here, so DEAL WITH IT"
ReplyDeleteTHAT'S the type of sh-t the WWE should be doing!!
crowds havent been chanting for him more than they have
ReplyDeleteJust watch something better on the network
ReplyDeleteThat's why I don't watch. It has nothing to do with who they do/do not push. It is simply because no matter who they push, the story is rarely compelling enough to hold my attention.
ReplyDeleteExcept that's not how it's used.
ReplyDeleteFuck, I saw a guy say IWC idiots DON'T UNDERSTAND how wrestling "works"
That the IWC are "marks."
But you say they are "uber smarts"
If a phrase means something different to everyone, it's a worthless term
Bryan's momentum started after losing to Sheamus in 18 seconds at WrestleMania. He hasn't looked back since.
ReplyDeleteThis is the overlooked problem here.
ReplyDeleteRaw is a terrible telivision program.
Making Bryan champ dpes nothing to change that if the story is the same either way
Yeah, that'll show them!
ReplyDeleteA group of marks that pretend they're smart but don't actually understand how the business works.
ReplyDeleteThat's actually a perfect definition. Nice.
What is that from?
ReplyDeleteBotched Spot. A webcomic.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.botchedspot.com/
There's being a fan, and there's being whiny babies. Vote with your dollars. If you don't like the WWE's direction, don't go to the farking show. If enough arenas start emptying, they'll change things. If they don't, then your guy wasn't important enough to hijack a show over.
ReplyDeleteIf you bought a ticket just go complain about shit, you're an idiot.
What difference does it make if the product sucks. It will be better out of context watching it on the network in a couple years. Let em do whatever they want. They just gave us the dill library and all the new ppvs for peanuts
ReplyDeleteI dunno man, I think you can typically tell by the context people are using it in.
ReplyDeleteYup. Shield/Wyatts aren't champs, but the heat for their matches is high because people want to see the two groups fight. There are multiple issues wrong with WWE, the writing of Raw is one of them.
ReplyDeleteYou know, having the network, I'm kind of excited to see where this goes regardless. It's not a "will buy / won't buy" proposition for me now and it makes thing a little weirder.
ReplyDeleteThis was genius.
ReplyDeleteIf Douglas thought he was being held down in 1993's WCW, imagine if he was still there when Hogan and friends showed up a year later.,
ReplyDeleteBut he USED A PEN!!!!
ReplyDeleteBut at this point, it's 99.9% clear that they are aware of this, and that will be changed. I wouldn't worry about it anymore.
ReplyDeleteTo stab a man in the hand!
ReplyDeletePeople are pulling for tetniss joke later.
ReplyDeleteBiggest push? Really? Punk won the title at Survivor Series 2011; including that show, Punk was the champ across 15 PPVs, 14 of which he wrestled on.
ReplyDeletePunk was in the main event only 5 times. Twice against Cena, once against Rock, twice when neither was booked. Cena was in the main event 8 times, only twice involving one of the world titles.
The only time Punk was at the top of the card was when the real top dogs were either involved or MIA.
Punk's challengers were: ADR, Miz, Ziggler, R-Truth, Kofi, Jericho, Bryan, Kane, Big Show, Ryback, Cena, and Rock.
Not exactly Murderer's Row, eh?
It's not at Bryan's expense because when Punk left they were going with Batista Orton and Bryan vs. Sheamus on the undercard. Bryan got into the HHH discussion because punk left and someone's going to be added to the world title match because Batista bombed as a face.
ReplyDeleteYep, it's pretty clear to me too. I don't know why people get so technical about the term. If "IWC" is unacceptable, then "Super Smarks" would work too.
ReplyDeleteWhat if cena is really hurt and punk is just coming back to put over the fat one? Would that be enough to get the comic book guys to turn on that dumb swamp people gimmick?
ReplyDeleteNo I think your point is this "and we all know he'd be there at Daniel Bryan's expense." and that is simply not true at the moment since Bryan is not in the main event and we have not heard any thing close to real evidence to the contrary. Dave Basthmaticsta walked off a hollywood lot and took Bryan's spot.
ReplyDeleteTHEN, you can go two ways with that.. Either have Bryan win the belt and do a big YES shot at the end of him winning.. OR you have Punk turn on him and cost him to lose to Batista.. giving them another program to work until Punk leaves. Could even start a stable with Batista. Orton & Punk if you're feeling lucky..
ReplyDeleteIt's Murderer's Row for this age, you named every single main eventer they have, and he went over every single one of them save Rock.
ReplyDeleteThere's just no winning.
It's still in the system, just not browsable for some reason. You can search for Raw and it'll come up on one of the results pages. The missing episode 5 is there too. Not 6 though for some reason.
ReplyDeleteThis is my personal favourite.
ReplyDeletehttp://botchedspot.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/01/2014-01-13-ddp-everyday-things.jpg
Lots of times people pretend to not understand the commonality of language in order to save a point.
ReplyDeleteI always wondered if there was the internet in 1984 and we had the three major companies and all the territories to discuss, how awesome the topics would be on here.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little worried about Aaron Paul too - but he always seems fairly assured on the chat show circuit (and 'The Price Is Right'!) so hopefully he'll be able to roll with it.
ReplyDeleteBy changed you mean "add somebody else to that match." That's an ok compromise, but the overwhelming majority of fans don't want Orton anywhere near the main event. Batista's a ways from being a unanimous choice, too.
ReplyDeleteFirst, don't tell me what my point is. You can't read my mind.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the hijacker's notes read that we are to demand CM Punk comes back AND demand Daniel Bryan gets in the main event of WrestleMania. But what if CM Punk will come back only if he's given that spot "we" want Daniel Bryan to have? Then what? Which desire is stronger?
2. I'm surprised Scott didn't kill somebody with that Steiner Screwdriver. I winced when I first saw that move,
ReplyDeleteUh?
ReplyDelete...I only named TWO main eventers. Cena and Rock. Maybe you could count ADR as well, but the rest were all midcard fodder.
ReplyDeleteAs long as they don't overdo it I could see that.
ReplyDeleteAnother option: have Batista destroy an indy geek that looks like Punk.
Thank you for introducing this site, I just spent a minute laughing at this one
ReplyDeletehttp://botchedspot.com/comic/2199/
Just don't have it be Matt Cross please.
ReplyDeletebut it's not punk's spot to take, either
ReplyDeletein fact, i'd say he has less "claim" to it than bdry, based on crowd support
ADR, Miz, Big Show, Kane, Bryan, Jericho, Ryback...all people that have been in main events and are pulled up for main event feuds (or were in those years obviously Ryback and Miz aren't anymore.)
ReplyDeleteThat we don't consider them such doesn't mean that's not what they are. No one ever said the booking was awesome, just that he went over every single guy they have at that level.
Who else was he supposed to go over? Austin? Sammartino?
You're welcome. Though that link doesn't take me to anything. Just says No Archive Found.
ReplyDeleteIt was funnier when Arnold did it in Demolition Man.
ReplyDeleteAre you seriously dissing Bray Wyatt? He's been one of the few fresh breaths of air in the past year.
ReplyDeleteOh, I see. Shame it was a 2011 one with Orton in one part of it.
ReplyDeleteYep, he's been doing so since day 1. I don't get it. They are awesome.
ReplyDeleteAnd what is wrong with us as fans wanting it all?
ReplyDeleteThat's some Blandy Borton level stuff right there.
ReplyDeleteYou don't refer to Bray as the fat one, or even Husky.
ReplyDeleteThey are one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on the wwe. I'd take 100 el matador type gimmicks over that. Its the kind of thing that makes me a closet wrestling fan.
ReplyDeleteSloppiest move ever. Totally agree I'm shocked no one lost their life in the ring with Scott doing that move.
ReplyDeleteOk, now you're just trolling.
ReplyDeleteNipple H!!!
ReplyDeleteDidn't you come up with that?
ReplyDeleteThe Cena/Lauranitis match HAD to go on last. For the simple reason that they wanted to close with the cliffhanger of why Big Show turned.
ReplyDeleteBesides, think about it this way. Had Punk/Bryan indeed gone last, the announcers would have ignored the entire match while repeating "WHY BIG SHOW WHY??" and "LAURINITIS IS STILL IN CHARGE, LET'S ALL JUMP OFF A BRIDGE". It would have totally killed the match. At least by going 2nd to last, it got the attention it deserved.
I don't get it either. I just had a brilliant idea...put Kevin Steen, Tensai, Brodus Clay in the stable and make it an all fat dude stable!
ReplyDeleteThey're evil? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz stick to cartoon shit wwe. If I want to see actual characters I'll watch something other than Monday night raw thanks
ReplyDeleteSince we have two posts about this, I'll repeat myself:
ReplyDeleteThere's being a fan, and there's being whiny babies. Vote with your
dollars. If you don't like the WWE's direction, don't go to the f'ing
show. If enough arenas start emptying, they'll change things. If they
don't, then your guy wasn't important enough to hijack a show over.
If you bought a ticket just to go complain about shit, you're an idiot.
This notion- and you're obviously not the only one to say it today- is based on some faulty premises (and that's not to say the whole thing isn't silly, but that's another story):
ReplyDelete1. "Vote with your dollars."
They aren't rejecting the product outright. They're specifically rejecting the old hat main event scene. They're showing they DID vote with their dollars, and they want to let WWE know that we're spending our money to see Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, The Shield, the Wyatts, Dolph Ziggler, and even the oldest of old-hat, the Undertaker.
2. "If you don't like the WWE's direction, don't go to the f'ing show."
Then you're hurting the performers you are a fan of. Clearly, there's a lot the fanbase likes about today's WWE, as detailed above. But the top of the card is filled with something the fanbase has outright rejected. So what's the compromise? You tell them what you want to see. You can absolutely voice your displeasure with the parts of the show you hate and voice your satisfaction with what you like. That's kind of the entire point in the first place; what's happened in the WWE in recent months has merely been a metastasis of that central conceit of wrestling fandom.
3. "If enough arenas start emptying, they'll change things."
....probably to the point that who we want to see is hurt by it, too.
4. "If you bought a ticket just to go complain about shit, you're an idiot."
Agreed. But this isn't what's happening, so I'm not sure what your point is. This little sheet of paper really is only outlining what the crowds have been expressing for months, anyway. They aren't rejecting the entire product. Bryan, Punk, Shield, Wyatts, Ziggler, Cesaro...there's plenty that this (ill-defined) segment of the crowd clearly wants to see.
You've obviously watched in the 80s, skipped over the late 90s, then came back in 09.
ReplyDeleteOne of the stupidest things ever? Seriously? Gobbley Gooker? Mantaur? The Goon? Beaver Cleavage? Mordecai?
ReplyDeleteHey the "big fat heel" is a long time staple of pro wrestling I'm a fan of. One man gang, earthquake, typhoon, Bundy, yokozuna, Vader is probably the Jordan of the BFH's. I was even jazzed for lord tensai. I just can't stand this gimmick for many reasons.
ReplyDeleteHey, don't diss Mordecai! Can't believe they gave up on his so quickly. He was tailor-made for a feud with Taker.
ReplyDeleteThese threads would be so much more fun with down vote options. I'd be close to 50 just in this thread I think.
ReplyDelete"Being in main events" isn't the same as being a main eventer. If they were actually main eventers, they wouldn't have been wrestling Punk for the world title 3rd from the top. The only times those guys wrestled in the main event was when they worked against Cena. Because HE was a main eventer.
ReplyDeleteWho Punk went over isn't really the issue; more an illustration of what he was working with. He was the champ in name only. Cena was still the top dog. IMO no matter who the champ is, they should be closing the show except for extraordinary circumstances (i.e., Royal Rumble). If they aren't good enough to close the show, they're not good enough for the belt.
I'm not even a super-huge fan of Punk. I like him just fine, but I'd rather watch Cena or Bryan matches. Punk might as well been the Demon getting billed as a "Special Main Event" because he was just holding the strap until Rock could show up in January.
The gimmick could've worked if it was on a better worker. I didn't think the guy was that great.
ReplyDeleteThose were all silly cartoon types, perfectly fine for the wwe to do. This is supposed to be some kind of serious character. Its embarrassing
ReplyDeleteYeah, thanks Steve and Chan!
ReplyDeleteMost people bought their tickets months before the current storylines. Especially for Mania. This argument doesn't hold much water.
ReplyDeleteI was with 'em till the Undertaker part. Fuck his old ass and his $1 million a year for one match.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you even a wrestling fan if you can't accept some of the more inane stuff? If all you want is dudes with names beating each other up, go watch ROH.
ReplyDeleteAfter dedicating 25 years of his life to the company, I'd say he's earned that.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't try to make serious characters in the attitude era. It was all silly over the top stuff.
ReplyDelete"Who Punk went over isn't really the issue"
ReplyDeleteOf course not, because he went over EVERYONE.
I listened to the Austin podcast with Dutch/Zeb on the way to work this morning and he told some stories about working Puerto Rico. You couldn't pay me enough to go down there and work as a heel.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with you, as fans, wanting everything. As long as you realize we can't always get everything. If you really think they're doing a four-way for the main event of WrestleMania when the only past four-way was an abject failure... well, I just don't see it happening.
ReplyDeleteBut the point here is, and has been, the hijacker list. I'm merely asking: which means more. If you were told you could only have Bryan as champ at Mania OR Punk back, which do you take?
I can accept, and enjoy, el matadors, fandango, Kane and undertaker, a wrestling "king", edge marrying Vickie, Samoans playing Japanese people, mexicools, midget court, cops, plummers, and convicts wrestling, even mankind but this gimmick is the wwe trying to be edgy and its fucking dumb.
ReplyDeleteJust watched Flair vs. Steamboat from Spring Stampede 94. Fantastic match, but man does that just say how perfect that 89 trilogy was. Now, if the Spring Stampede 94 match could be considered a "remake" or "reboot" of the 89 trilogy, what could be considered the "prequel" to their 89 trilogy? I've never seen any Flair/Steamboat matches that took place before Chi-Town Rumble, so is there one match that really stands out before then that showed that these two guys would eventually go on to have what are considered the greatest matches of all time?
ReplyDeleteAssuming all of the speculation is to be believed about why Punk left ("because it was Bryan's turn in the main event"), then Punk is pretty much a douche because it goes from "I think they're not doing the right thing with Bryan" to "I think they're not doing the right thing with Bryan, but if I can get a main event, fuck him."
ReplyDeleteBy that argument, Punk's started at Survivor Series 2006 when the crowd was chanting for him so loudly that HHH had to stop the DX intro to acknowledge it.
ReplyDelete....more than they have what?
ReplyDeleteEvery single show has had noticable CM Punk chants since Royal Rumble.
Its interesting that people here would enjoy hijack chants during a Del Rio match, but you're an asshole if you chant husky harris at the Wyatt's.
ReplyDeleteOk, so the compliant, directly from this stupid form, is that this is the "same old shit." If that's true, it's the same old shit going back to when people bought tickets and honestly, going back years. What did these people expect?
ReplyDeleteI think American wrestling fans are spoiled, fickle babies who want to be part of the show so bad they will do stuff like this.
I would bet $100 that if Bryan had won the championship and defended it the last few months, half his heat would be gone. Why? Because fans would WANT SOMETHING ELSE.
Exactly. Remember that Punk is still extremely bitter about not main eventing Mania 27. Which even if you agree with him he'd pass up Bryan to close out 30 in a heartbeat.
ReplyDeleteFair enough, though I answer that by saying I reject that and say both. Bringing up the previous 4 way doesn't hold that much weight here because that ended with the first heel WM main event win ever AND had McMahon all over the place AND had a retired wrestler brought back. In my explanation, not to be too full of myself, I explained how it would basically be a glorified 3 way and how it would work as a great match.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, you said We can't always get everything, and this is true. However I think this is a time..at Wrestlermania, at Wrestlemania 30, after months of pissing the fan base off...when we should get everything. Since Summerslam they have been going down an nWo sized road of never giving the fans the win they yearn for. So yes on this one night we should get everything we want.
And did so 3rd from the top. What a championship-caliber push!
ReplyDeleteIt's a bizarre double standard.
ReplyDeleteWell, put him in the Hall of Fame then, instead of putting him over younger wrestlers at the biggest event of the year.
ReplyDeleteDelightful case in point.
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing. I don't think Punk would be "taking a spot from Bryan" (one that Bryan was never going to have, anyway), but if everything is going to be believed, then Punk's leaving would have had nothing to do with Bryan -- since he'd be so quick to sell out his morals for a main event spot. It would prove that Punk is just as selfish as Batista and everyone else he criticizes.
ReplyDeleteExcept for Punk, when's the last time Taker went over a guy with a future in a big match?
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU. I have absolutely no idea what everyone sees in the Wyatts, at all. And please don't waste time stating your case everybody; I don't care.
ReplyDeleteYou'd figure jesse and jr would be great on commentary together but there's something a little off with them weird chemistry
ReplyDeleteTerra-ryzan *clap clap clap clap clap* terra-ryzan
ReplyDeleteYeah, why should the champion go on last? That's just crazy talk!
ReplyDeleteMean mark! Mean Mark! Mean Mark
ReplyDeleteIf he's not taking the spot from Bryan, how is he being a douche? Because he isn't voluntarily giving something to Bryan that Bryan was never going to have, and that he has no power to give to him anyway?
ReplyDelete(in a mocking tone) Dea-con! Dea-con! Dea-con!
ReplyDeleteJust to be clear Punk wasn't critical of Batista coming back since he isn't part time.
ReplyDeleteOh those wacky Smart fans :P Should make the show fun to watch tonight.
ReplyDeleteNever good enough, never pleased. This is going to keep happening to you until you give up wrestling, btw. Enjoy the ride.
ReplyDeleteBut under that logic, why are we mad at Batista? He took something Bryan was never going to have either.
ReplyDeletePerception is as important as reality right now.
It seems like every advance we've had in entertainment in the last few years is about personalization...basically, getting what we want when we want it. VOD, Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, even DVR: they're all based on making the consumer happy right now.
ReplyDeleteHate the shows on TV? Find the ones you like instead.
Don't want to watch commercials? Here--fast-forward through the commercials.
In fact, the Network's exhibit A of that: if you don't like what's streaming live, find something you personally want to see. But they're not going to tell you, "Tough shit--this is what you're watching." If you couldn't pick what you wanted to see--if the WWE programmed the whole thing without giving you any choice--would you buy it?
So when you shove certain people down the throat of an audience (almost in spite of what they're clamoring for) that's used to having control over what it watches...yeah, there's going to be a backlash. That's kind of the new normal.
I realize that the backlash might come off as being spoiled, but why not embrace the opportunity to actually have some say in how the show gets run? If nothing changes, we can all go back to being snarky as hell, which, on some level, is kinda fun. But if it works and management starts listening? How cool would that be?
Sorry about the novel, everybody.
"I don't understand the logic of 'punishing' somebody by putting them in main events." -- JR during the Christian-Sheamus match at HIAC 2011.
ReplyDeleteMade me think of Daniel Bryan fans.
:: hugs Marv Cresto after reading this post ::
ReplyDeleteRegarding the complaining about complaining...
ReplyDelete1. When you combine the two biggest discontent groups (nerd culture and sport or sportish fans) as you do with wrestling, you'll get a convergence of people who despise complacency with a passion. Sometimes irrationally so.
2. People generally don't complain about TV shows that bring the wow factor and amaze them. Raw hasn't produced jaw-dropping moments with breathtaking twists in a long time. There's probably been about 3 or 4 shows since Summerslam that have been near-universally acclaimed.
3. We are on a site where the comments are called "rants." You're going to get some ranting. Please find a site that doesn't include the word rant if you wish to avoid ranting.
I'd love to see Batista come out to Living Colour's song in an undersized hoodie. But I'd also love to see the crowd hijack the show if the show goes downhill (and if they paid for tickets months ago before Punk left). I'd love to see anything provocative or striving to amaze. We'll see.
I'm not the least bit bothered about any of this. At the end of the day, it doesn't make sense to call someone the champion and then have him NOT be the most important guy on the show. Whether that's Punk, Bryan, Cena, or Heath Slater.
ReplyDeleteExcellent points across the board there. Well said.
ReplyDeletePut Bryan in a triple threat with Batista and Orton for the title, put Punk in a match with HHH that closes out the show. Bryan gets his title, Punk gets his main event, everybody happy.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVQBy6zQgtc
ReplyDeleteWell said.
ReplyDeleteIt goes back to my point of people picking and choosing who they want to slam and essentially white-knight for, no matter what the circumstance
ReplyDeleteI still see this as a plausible scenario.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely loathe Chicago but I'm in full support of this.
ReplyDeleteThe "I HATE you Hulk Hogan" part at the end of one of them was pretty heelish and completely awesome.
ReplyDeleteAny body but MD20/20. Is he still sporting that crazy hobo beard?
ReplyDeletePerception is the only existing reality, because we're talking about pro wrestling.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, Batista's case is different. This is someone who was gone for four years and waltzed into the Rumble win that otherwise would really have had to go to either Punk or Bryan- no one else would have made sense- and while I'm always skeptical of wrestling news he did, reportedly, take that spot from one of the two (which one depends on who you believe).
Eh....I guess. I think that's a really flimsy bit of reverse-engineering your card, though: if that stupid of a reason is why you put a comedy match on last, you need to think of a better ending.
ReplyDeleteIf he's only getting 1 million than he's underpaid. Undertaker has almost always delivered the match of the night on WM in recent history.
ReplyDeleteThis is, hands down, one of the most embarrassing, shameful "LOOK AT ME" self-important things I have ever seen. This is old school TNA "heel section" mortifying.
ReplyDelete