Hey Scott, Thanks! |
I'd have to go with Flair-Steamboat by a mile, but there's certainly some other good ones in the list. The best I can remember watching live were Michaels & Austin v. Davey & Owen and then of course Austin & HHH v. Benoit & Jericho, and the latter one instantly became one of my all-time favorites. I think with the weekly nature of TV, great matches kind of get forgotten faster there, whereas PPV is treated as a special big deal and thus you're more likely to remember something big that happened at, say, Wrestlemania than some random RAW. But really, a great match is a great match no matter where.
I know it's not the best ever, but I saw the finish to Shawn-Shelton on a random Countdown and it brought back all kinds of good memories of a match that really didn't mean that much.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy Flair/Steamboat plenty, but I would take any of the other mentioned matches as well as Austin/Angle and Austin/Benoit from 2001 before watching that one again. And I loooooves NWA.
ReplyDeleteI was about 30 feet away from that finish and it is great. But the rest of the match is good, not great. It really gets graded way high because of the finish.
ReplyDeleteI think those days have been over since the nWo angle ended in 02. I'm not sure they are bringing these guys in to "pop" buyrates since even they are smart enough to say "this pay per view drew 10,000 more buys than last years but we paid this guy such and such amount of money". I think they don't mind taking a loss on something like that when the Goldberg and Warrior DVD's and so many others show that a guy can make a killing on the deal and the company can make a lot too by just featuring the guy on a few shows, hyping his DVD, etc. So yeah I don't think they bring these guys back hoping for a buyrate pop except in the case of Rock and even then by you factor in what he was paid they broke even on that deal as well.
ReplyDeleteI think its more of a "thank you" and as someone else said a call back to the fans as well as them having so many other ways for guys to make money with DVD's, merchandise, and all sorts of other stuff. I don't think any of these guys are really getting "big money" and like I said even Batista was in the top three of merchadise sales upon his return so even if he's not popping buyrates if he's selling DVD's and T Shirts they will make their money back or atleast break even. I think we'll continue to see that forever.
Cena-Shawn, London Raw
ReplyDeleteMost memorable: Hulk/Andre 2
ReplyDeleteOne where I was most excited: Jericho/HHH (jericho's first wwf title win)
I don't really see this as a "new generation" since a lot of guys like Bryan are only
ReplyDeletethree or four years younger than Cena anyway. Claudio is the same way. I think
the Shield are all relativley young , Bray Wyatt is really young but those guys
aren't even really on the Bret Hart in 92 level yet outside of maybe Bray. That
combine with how unpredictable the WWE is. I can respect the wishful thinking
but I don't really see any point in doing any sort of write up on something
that at best is five weeks in and honestly I haven't seen much evidence outside
of Bray Wyatt and Reigns that this is long term for anyone of the so called
"new generation". So doing a write up on it five weeks after
Wrestlemania just seemed incredibly silly to me. Especially when its mostly
still all in our heads and hopeful speculation that half of the guys we hope are
in line for big pushes are getting them.
I think the Cesero push is 99 perecent speculation. Like what is the difference between this push and the Curtis Axel push from last year? Hell I'd argue the Axel push started out even stronger since at that time being a Paul Heyman guy was just a step below being an original nWo member or an original horsemen member as far as the prestige and talent of guys in the loose faction. Cesero does very little
talking and Heyman spends 90 percent of his time talking up a guy that won't be
around until Summerslam. Now I know most hope this leads to a Cesero/Brock
match but thats 100 percent speculation and I personally think it wouldn't be
silly to go about it this way from the start. It would be better if he got
Cesero, Cesero got the U.S Title or the I.C Title, went on a successful run and
Brock comes back and Heyman spends all his time around cesero talking about
Brock. So again its 99 percent speculation. I also think there is a chance that
Ambrose and Rollins get forgotten about after the Reigns push. Daniel Bryan
isn't long for the title. This is his Chris Benoit token, spring/summer run,
he'll lose the title at Summerslam and be in the U.S Title hunt from here on
out. Bray Wyatt might wind up being a big deal, but he might wind up being
completely killed off with this Cena feud. This are a lot less clear and a LOT
more random than they were when the last New Generation came up. There are a
ton of guys I really want to see in big roles in the coming years but Ryder,
Ziggler, Umaga, even the Miz and so many others tell us that you could be in
the main event program one year and be wrestling on Superstars or worse the
next. Five weeks is WAY to early to start doing "pieces" on this.
Cena vs. Michaels in England?
ReplyDeleteText games, poop, yoga, board games based on video games, Moppy, and Spider-man not doing it for you?
ReplyDeleteI love having any opportunity to espouse Benoit/Jericho vs HHH/Austin as my favorite match of all time.
ReplyDeleteThe pace, the intensity, the crowd heat, the near-falls, the ending, HHH continuing through injury. The match is fucking art. I watch it about once every month or so and it never ages.
Chris Benoit had a really great No-DQ match on Smackdown back in early '06.
ReplyDeleteThen there's the ten-man tag match between the Rock, Mankind, and 2 Cool and HHH + Radicalz. The crowd was INSANE and then Kane made his return and chokeslammed eveyrbody.
Too be fair the Yoga and Board Game and Spider-Man were their own separate things.
ReplyDeleteBenoit had many great free TV bouts. vs. Austin sticks out.
ReplyDeleteit is important thought to remember that wrestling and actual age are very different. Batista was pretty old in 2005 but wrestling wise he was fresh to the fans. Cena is years younger than lots of top stars were at their peak (Hogan, Flair, Dusty, and many others were on top into their 40s) but in wrestling age he's as overexposed as any wrestler in the history of the business. Being on TV 2-5 times a week (if just in highlight form) every week for 10 years is quite a bit different than when Hogan was a special attraction and merely seeing him do an interview on a syndicated show was a big deal. So in wrestling age, to WWE fans, Cena is "old" and Bryan is young even if chronologically they may not be far apart.
ReplyDeleteAngle vs. Lesnar Ironman was good. Eddie vs. Edge No DQ, Edge/Rey vs. Angle/Benoit 2/3 Falls.
ReplyDeleteAnd he and Regal randomly had a MOTYC on Velocity in 2005.
ReplyDeleteI tried the text game but kept getting 504 error.
ReplyDeleteYes, the Fantastics were over. They were sort of a poor man's RNR and were very good workers.
ReplyDeleteBenoit and Lesnar had a great match in December 2003--around the same time as the classic Shawn-Triple H match.
ReplyDeleteYeah, and I think he also said that they needed a big loan to pay Mike Tyson for his appearances and they paid them back when they went public in 1999.
ReplyDeleteOh man I forgot all about flair vs steamboat at the clash...wow I couldn't be happier about all these clashes getting tossed on the network.
ReplyDeleteI really loved that raw 10 man tag, and punk vs cena is one of my favorite feuds ever so that amazing raw match is right up there with me. I agree with Scott that a great ppv match seems like a big deal but its cool how like 4 million people saw cena vs punk.
you make some good points on merchandise. I'm going to be curious to see how the network impacts DVD sales. Remember that dvd sets are generally sold to hardcore fans, especially ones for anyone not on top when they are released (so non-Cena, Punk, Orton type dvds). I think a lot of hardcore fans will have the network and it might impact sales since so many matches on a DVD set are already in the ppv and Raw vaults. I personally still enjoy having a set of matches grouped together on a DVD, so I will still buy some, but I can see it impacting sales, particularly if they keep showing the docs on the Network as well.
ReplyDeleteI think ultimately it all depends on cost. My understanding is that they paid some pretty big bucks for Rock and Lesnar and a fair amount for Batista. Guys like Nash, Jericho, or Foley seem more likely to come cheap and just keep active now and then. I don't think anyone really pops ratings anymore but a guy like Lesnar probably does add a few thousand buys in the old model. I doubt he adds any network commitments though.
Yeah whoever sent this email in is really really awesome!
ReplyDeleteChoosing one is really tough, but I loved the Cena-Michaels broadway and the HHH-Michaels WHC match from Raw in 2003.
ReplyDeleteCena/Michaels when they went for half of the show was good. Both tags mentioned in the email were great. I think my all time fave was the 10 man though, it was the tits.
ReplyDeleteHogan/Andre Main Event too.
Jackie Gayda and Christopher Nowinski vs Trish Stratus and Bradshaw. Daah...
ReplyDeleteWasn't there a couple good Douglas/Steamboat vs. Hollywood Blondes on a Clash and then a Main Event show?
ReplyDeleteI really thought they'd do a fuck finish and set up a ppv match or that hogan would go over. I was in full anti hogan late 90's smark mode so I was fucking shocked when he jobbed to Goldberg on TV.
ReplyDeleteThat was still better than the Bryan/Kane angle on Monday
ReplyDeleteWould have been **** except for Cactus's Royal screw up at the end.
ReplyDeleteWhich ten man is everyone referring to? The only one I remember is during the I nation with like all ten guys hitting finishers for the end or something like that. It had Dreamer and Big Show I think.
ReplyDeleteThere was a Shawn Michaels/Diesel vs 1-2-3 Kid/Razor Ramon match from Action Zone in October 1994 that I had forgotten about. I watched it last week (stoned out of my mind) and holy hell it was unbelievable.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1227i4_action-zone-94-shawn-michaels-diesel-vs-1-2-3-kid-razor-ramon-10-30_sport
I thought there was no way Goldberg would win because he still had the US title
ReplyDeleteIf they were able to book the Georgia Dome and sell that many tickets, why not run a fucking PPV there instead of Nitro? I get the whole "ratings are more important than buyrates" thing they had going on, but why not cash in on a huge gate with a big summer PPV? Great American Bash at the GDome?
ReplyDeleteHoly crap I totally remember this match. It was on the Action Zone VHS tape!
ReplyDeleteBest part was Razor hitting the Razor's Edge on HBK in the first minute... and them never letting up after that. (including an incredible "heel in peril" session on HBK near the end, with Diesel knocked out.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. I remember watching that match like it was yesterday. We were so conditioned to the nWo run-in DQ finish that I was sure we would only get five minutes of brawling before a big fuck finish.
ReplyDeleteand the weirdest part was, they had Goldberg vs Hall to set up the title match... ON THE SAME SHOW... That match alone as a #1 contenders match could have been good enough to pop the crowd huge, and have them look forward to a Goldberg/Hogan PPV match... But, ya know, WCW.
ReplyDeleteShawn kicking out of so many pins at the last half second. this match should really be on a DVD somewhere
ReplyDeletePower Hour was on at like 6 am for a while too
ReplyDeleteAre you the "Orton vs Batista is gonna be amazing!" guy?
ReplyDeletethink it was called "Slamfest 95"
ReplyDeleteRadicals and DX (hhh and Waltman) vs rock/Foley/rikishi/too cool. Great match with an all time hot crowd.
ReplyDeleteAh yes you are correct. I did have a Action Zone VHS though as well. There were a lot of strange 1 hour video tape compilations out there at the time.
ReplyDeleteYeah. IThey totally could have sold Goldberg vs. Giant or Goldberg vs. Hall as a '#1 Contender' match to set up Goldberg as Hogan's #1 rival. Then spend months with Hogan ducking him and avoiding defending the title. Run that til you can make some money off a Goldberg-Hogan ppv pay-off.
ReplyDeleteAs a fan, I loved it because I didn't have to pay for a ppv to see it. Looking at it now, they probably should have booked a fuck finish and paid it off on PPV
ReplyDeleteAustin vs. Benoit, 2001.
ReplyDeletePunk vs. Cena, 2012.
Jericho/Benoit vs. Austin/HHH, 2001
10-Man from 2000
Haven't seen this for years. Thanks for the link!
ReplyDeleteOne of my all-time favorite, if only because I was so jacked for my favorite dudes to be in WWF
ReplyDeleteSuch a great time to be a fan. Golden era for sure.
ReplyDeleteCena/HBK
ReplyDeleteFlair/Sting
Midnights/Fantastics
Angle/Guerrero
HBK/Diesel/Kid/Ramon
Flair/Perfect
K match until Diesel took the Superkick. Then it got REAL good.
ReplyDeleteOh man I forgot all about flair vs perfect when I was thinking about this. Good call man
ReplyDeleteIt was the ONLY good match on that tape.
ReplyDeleteWasn't there another tag with Bret, Bulldog, Owen, and Neidhart?
ReplyDelete[Mark Henry] THAT WHAT I DO!!! [/Mark Henry]
ReplyDeleteIn no order, some of my favorites:
ReplyDeleteFlair/Perfect
Hart/123 Kid
Goldberg/Raven
Goldberg/Hogan
Hogan/Luger
TLC, the first ever one on Raw, I think Kane and RVD won.
Angle/Benoit cage
Punk/Cena
And TJ: Raven apparently was interviewed for the Heyman dvd.
Yep. That's a decent (no more, no less) tag, too. Owen's pretty funny in it.
ReplyDeleteThat was on my list before I saw your post. Love that match.
ReplyDeleteWhatever you say buddy
ReplyDeleteThe old territory shows could surprise from time to time. This whole network expanding deal is great because we might get to see lost gems like Harley giving some schlub the match of a lifetime.
ReplyDeleteFlair vs Funk. I Quit rules. Clash 9. The End.
ReplyDeleteWait, is this thread about the most overrated matches of all time?
ReplyDeleteWhich one of those matches had someone powerbombing themselves in an attempt to complete a frankensteiner? Which one of those matches is vastly overrated because it's the first time we saw a piledriver on WWE TV in years? (Hint: it's the last one on the list...with Cena at his no-selling best for a good 20 minutes straight).
ReplyDeleteThe botch of the hurracanranna is why the finish works so well.
ReplyDeleteThen you might be in the wrong place.
ReplyDeleteNah
ReplyDeleteAnd also, I'm going to no sell your second question.
ReplyDelete"You're a hell of a man, Ric Flair!"
ReplyDelete"I'm gonna shake his hand like I said."
ReplyDeletePunk v Cena last year before WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteI always found it funny, no matter how many times they met on PPV before or since, no HHH/HBK match ever came close to topping their free match on the last RAW of 2003...Summerslam '02 included. That RAW match was just STUPID good...and followed by the most depressing series ever throughout '04.
ReplyDeleteA personal favorite of mine is Randy Savage vs. Bret Hart from SNME.
ReplyDeleteIt's easily one of the most frustrating matches I've watched since I returned to full-time fandom in 2011. Every time Punk would do something cool, Super Cena would do something nullifying it. And then the majority of the fans disagree with it and think of it as something great...making it doubly frustrating. I gave it 4 stars but well below any legendary status or of a quality to make a list like this.
ReplyDeleteMalenko was the man in that match. He played the crowd perfectly as he cut people off at just the right spots. My only complaint is that match could have gone on another 10 minutes easily. There were so many more pairings and a couple more hot tags left in the tank and the crows was ready. Still an all time classic.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they'll release a best of the clique DVD.
ReplyDeleteI see what you did there. You did the opposite. That makes you George Costanza. You might fall ass backwards into a job with the Chicago Cubs and make them into a winner.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about all of this. However, I did dig their December 02 meeting and I can tolerate their Royal Rumble 04 match. No one should ever... ever... be forced to watch their HiaC match in one sitting, though.
ReplyDeleteYep. He moved his family to Chicago and changed their identities in order to protect them from any future retaliation from terrorists linked to Hans Gruber.
ReplyDeleteThere were three choices back then.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to free tv, I'm always a big mark when a main eventer carries one of the lower midcard guys to a great match and makes them into a star like HBK/Shelton as mentioned, Bret/1-2-3 Kid and Angle/Kaz from Impact some years ago.
ReplyDeleteAlso one of my favorite Clashes just because the entire show moved at a blazing fast pace, especially compared to every other Clash in 1990 and 1991 where those shows just dragged on for what felt like forever.
ReplyDelete.... Let's not go uber-crazy now...
ReplyDeleteCena sold his ass off for that match. Then he pulls out a move he can't do(or to fucked up to pull off), Punk is confused, and it allows him to hit the AA ftw. The match is a classic.
ReplyDeleteI was at that Rumble live, and while I went crazy for Benoit winning (and a good Rumble match overall), I remember after seeing the RAW match I was STOKED to see the Last Man Standing match between them. And while it wasn't horrible, literally half the match is them lying around "selling the drama". Not bad, but christ what a letdown.
ReplyDeleteHell yes on Angle / Benoit in the cage. The best bloodless cage match ever.
ReplyDeleteI like Shelton/HHH more myself but both are great.
ReplyDeleteHas the WWF/E EVER tried harder and longer to get someone over than Bradshaw? It took about 3 years before he got even slightly over as part of The Acolytes then another year before they really took off as the APA.
ReplyDeleteAfter they broke up they tried to push him as a singles guy again ala 96-99 but that was a bust and finally they hit paydirt in 2004 as JBL.
Even Billy Gunn must have been thinking, "Sheesh enough's enough!"
I've watched the HBK / Edge Street Fight a few times recently and God damn is that is a great match.
ReplyDeleteTruly a lost art.
ReplyDeleteCouple that come to mind
ReplyDeleteAngle-Benoit in the cage
RVD - Guerrero Ladder match for IC title
Lesnar-Angle Iron Man match
HHH - Benoit Iron Man
Dark Horse choice Jeff Hardy Vs Undertaker Ladder match
Bubba vs HHH is a forgotten classic and it showed that his TNA success shouldn't have been that surprising.
ReplyDeleteLawler - Funk Empty Arena was by far the most fun match just for Terry and Lance killing time before Lawler arrived
ReplyDeleteSo many classics already listed but one I haven't seen is Sting/DDP from Nitro where Sting won the belt. That match would be more highly regarded if Sting didn't drop the belt later in the same show.
ReplyDeleteDDP is just in the zone as a heel. Great match.
ReplyDeleteDavey/Owen is another really good TV match.
ReplyDeleteEveryone mentioning Benoit / Angle in the cage gets a limp fish carny handshake from me. That match is still fucking insane.
ReplyDeleteBROCK LOCK!
ReplyDeleteI thought DDP sucked as a top level heel, came across as too mid card.
ReplyDeleteThat match is very over rated.
ReplyDeleteOverall yes, but in that match he was feeling it and the crowd was hating on him hard.
ReplyDeleteThe one with the moonsault off the cage right?
ReplyDeleteI said Davey/Owen, not Flair/Funk I Quit.
ReplyDeleteDisagree with both Cena selling his ass off (I was watching with family, and I remember a bunch of us rolling our eyes and getting a little pissed that he magically revived from whatever ailed him after every big move) and that the botch is anything but a botch.
ReplyDeleteBack when Dudleys were a tag team before 2002 I always knew Bubba was the star of the team, then Bubba got his singles push in 2002 and he was doing okay for himself, but then HHH happened and wrecked all the momentum Bubba had built and then I thought Bubba's aspiration to being a singles star was shattered until he went to TNA and became the star I knew he could be and showed that WWE lost a great talent.
ReplyDeleteEdge / Eddie from Smackdown, Edge actually ended his email relationship with Scott over the lack of a 5 star rating IIRC.
ReplyDeleteI love that ladder match... I really thought Jeff was going to win... and JR was on top of his game "Come on kid! Climb your ass off Jeff! Make yourself famous!"
ReplyDelete*Cena no sells your stupid opinion!*
ReplyDeleteI remember watching that one with my grandfather. I turned to him, he looked back at me and said, "Now THAT was a great match." He wasn't into wrestling that much after '95, and never watched PPVs or really even cared about match quality.
ReplyDeleteBut it has a certain spot with me knowing that it may have been the greatest match my grandfather has ever seen, and he's the one that started me on wrestling.
Eddie and Edge beat the living piss out of each other in that match. I remember it being really crisp as well. Was that the finale for their feud?
ReplyDeleteThere was a running joke for a long time:
ReplyDeleteWhat did every NWA belt have in common?
Dusty Rhodes was the number one contender for all of them.
Bubba in 2002 was entering Foley territory. Only guy to come close to the kind of appeal Mick had but they never did anything with it.
ReplyDeleteThat's a really cheap argument.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, CM Punk vs. John Cena is my favorite RAW match ever. Second is HBK vs Cena hour long match
ReplyDeleteMeant as a reply to HBK/Shelton. Also quite humorously HBK auto-corrects to JOB on my Kindle.
ReplyDeleteThat's okay, Cena. You still had plenty of other classics.
ReplyDeleteYeah, their best match may have been the one they gave away, on a total throw away show.
ReplyDeleteI still think the SummerSlam '02 one was better though.
Flair still won't buy it......
ReplyDeletewoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Is that the one where Bubba almost broke HHH's neck?
ReplyDeleteCome on dude, those two REALLY tore into each other. Intensity from Flair like I've never seen.
ReplyDeleteIs that the one with the ladder spots? More Smackdown 6 stuff would be on my list but they all bleed together, like the Nitro cruiser matches.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Flair guy I gladly admit that. You still haven't defended the Davey / Owen match . Your WCW top matches list with no Flair matches was almost as bad as your fantasy booking scenarios.
ReplyDeleteEVIL SHIELD CENA SAYS YOU CAN'T SEEEEEEE MEEEE
ReplyDeleteWhat did he hand it, ****1/2?
ReplyDeleteThat list had a Flair match on top and bunch of other Flair matches.
ReplyDeleteDid that come in a box set with SummerFest 1995?
ReplyDeleteI think Cena "not quite getting all of" the hurricanrana is a bit retconned into the story of the match, but the match was absolutely amazing. The piledriver just sealed it. That was Punk basically trying to murder Cena to get the win, and knowing it.
ReplyDeleteEdge wins with a DDT off the top while he was on the ladder. Wild match.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't the burden of proof rest on you for the Davey/Owen match? Many, many folks think it's in the 4.5-5 star category. Your whole case right now is that it's "overrated" and nothing else.
ReplyDeleteHoly crap. I remember going crazy for that match live. Great damn match.
ReplyDeleteIf you mean the TLC that Kane and Hurricane won, I'd disagree. The one on SD that Benoit and Jericho won (I think Benoit hurt his neck in that one) was pretty great, though.
ReplyDeleteI saw the match a year ago and was pretty disappointed by it. Not sure if it holds up well today
ReplyDeleteVince Russo was handed "the keys to the car" after that match and the ratings were in the toilet. The match is no where near as good as it is historically rated.
ReplyDeleteAll these matches people are mentioning are on cable, which is NOT free.
ReplyDeleteThe best is Flair vs. Windham on Worldwide in '87;
TLC 3
ReplyDeleteThat has nothing to do with why a match would be good or not.
ReplyDeleteI forget the backstory behind that one... was it Orton or Edge or both who were being punished or missed their flight or something... so Cena/Michaels had to go extra long.
ReplyDeleteNo one remembers it but Flair vs. Austin was just fantastic.
ReplyDeleteThank you for saving me the time of typing that. Dumb argument.
ReplyDeleteIt was a crappy Raw with a crappy camera or camera filter with it, and it sucked in the ratings. It's lack of historical or cultural value doesn't diminish the quality of what was told in that ring, though. Still was a damn near perfect match, flawlessly executed in terms of holds, and it told a unique story between two partners falling apart.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I personally found the match to be not that good. Evidently so did the general wrestling public as everyone turned to Nitro instead of watching it. Vince was so pissed about that show he let Vince Russo write Raw for the next 2 + years. I don't what else to say about it.
ReplyDeleteWhich one, 2005 or 2007? Both were great.
ReplyDeleteFlair-Steamboat in New Orleans, followed closely by Flair-Windham in January '87.
ReplyDeleteLet's keep in mind that Bubba was mostly doing hardcore matches and Mixed tag matches involving Steven Richards as his opponent back then. He wasn't even on the Summerslam 2002 card. There is actually no universe in which it would have made sense for World Champ HHH to job to him. In all the "HHH buried so and so" arguments, this has to be the weakest one.
ReplyDeleteRaw could have shown the Flair/Steamboat trilogy and it still wouldn't have beat Nitro then.
ReplyDeleteWhat the? Bubba was nowhere near that
ReplyDeleteAustin vs Bret at WM 13 did a shifty buyrate, it also sucks obviously.
ReplyDeleteThere's plenty of art that's not appreciated until well after it's presented the first time (a good 3/4 of the authors we read in school never became famous in their lifetimes, for example). It doesn't make the paying public right. It doesn't make the art any less great.
ReplyDeleteThat argument is far more ridiculous that mine.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying he was as over as Foley, just that he had the same type of character like that and could have easily been the next Foley with a push.
ReplyDeleteTwo amazing title matches on free tv in the same month. Christmas came early in 2003.
ReplyDeleteAustin/Benoit on Smackdown
ReplyDeleteTLC 3 on Smackdown
Cena/Punk from Raw.
I still can't believe they gave away TLC 3 free on TV. What were they thinking with that? I would have paid full price just to see that, AND it caused serious injuries. A double money flush.
A. They didn't own the footage.
ReplyDeleteB. The matches were 8 years old at that point.
If I recall, it was Keller who really liked that match, so I was pretty excited to see it. Then, when I finally did, it was boring as crap.
ReplyDeleteI remember I taped that episode of SmackDown for a friend. After watching that match I just flat out refused to give him the tape. I rewatched TLC III so many times.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I can remember, ratings were dropping and the company began throwing PPV main event quality matches on a routine basis for like a month.
ReplyDeleteAustin / Benoit was amazing, that while month of TV ruled.
ReplyDeleteThat would be a good thread, though.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr. Literal.
ReplyDeleteYep, I remember it. It was so weird as there were actually some great matches (I think Bret vs Mankind was one of them), but it was basically a glorified house show setting. Just made it feel so second rate.
ReplyDelete2005
ReplyDeleteI was 13 going on 14 at the time and I hated Bubba the singles wrestler. He wasn't necessarily ready for that at the time.
ReplyDeleteIf it remember right, tlc 3 was on the smackdown the week that Benoit and Jericho won the belts, which means it was filmed the day after Triple H tore his quad. I think they were scrambling and said fuck it, let's put them in a tlc to at least get a great match since their booking plans were probably screwed. In fact, I think Jericho and Edge mentioned on Jericho's podcast that they found out when they got to the arena that day that they were having a tlc match.
ReplyDeleteI'm the "The bored with the IWC thinking every one of their darlings should be deserving of a push over those awful body builders Vince shoves down our throat" guy. Of course I bring logic and an outside perspective to a place that buries their head in the sand 90 percent of the time so whatta gonna do...............brother.
ReplyDeleteVery true. Same reason why the MASH finale had the all time ratings record for so long. Not only very few channels, but of course, no internet either. Impossible to compare.
ReplyDeleteBubba had a great timing, too. They missed their chance to capitalize on him in that tiny 2002 window and a dysfunctional relationship followed. It was good to see Bubba prove himself years later. One of the few feel good Impact Wrestling stories
ReplyDeleteYeah its very strange what they are doing with the network and I don't understand how it's financially smart but I suppose they have numbers showing otherwise.
ReplyDeleteWow that's nuts. So HHH tore his quad and Benoit broke his neck in less than 24 hours? What a kick in the nuts for the promotion.
ReplyDeleteAccording to White Thunder's logic, since only 1,000 people paid to see it, the match sucks.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Eddie and RVD do a crazy ladder match on tv?
ReplyDeleteThis is a hard one there are several, Bret/Benoit, Austin/Benoit, Cena/Shawn, etc.
Flair-Windham and Flair-Sting are very similar matches. It's hard for me to separate them. Both great, of course.
ReplyDeleteI love Cena-Punk, but I've never felt it was quite up to the level of HBK-Cena.
ReplyDeletewatched that match recently and it is very good especially the last 5 minutes. Sting and DDP had amazing chemistry in 1998-1999.
ReplyDeleteWith you. Flair/Funk at GAB is worlds better than the overrated I Quit match. That thing had no flow.
ReplyDeleteI liked Mero when he came back as the boxer. Shaved head, new attitude, he actually seemed kind of badass for a while there. The Sable stuff just killed him though - I think he might have been able to survive it if he played it as the dominant asshole, but he played it more like he was a goofy pain in her ass than any kind of threat. It also went on way too long as he was pretty much being made a fool off by Sable for like 10 months.
ReplyDeleteI acquired it separately on amazon around 2009. very cheap too. Damn I miss not having a car payment.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't stand JBL until he moved to Raw. He was fine as US or IC Champion, he was fine as a b-pay per view feud with a top guy, or the first heel challenger of a new face challenger, but a whole brand revolving around the guy was brutal.
ReplyDeleteYeah and I was there for that one too. Awesome sauce
ReplyDeleteThat Bret match is one of my favorite TV matches of his career, if not the top pick. Just a wonderful bout and a shining example of how he could truly work with any style of opponent and create magic.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite matches have to be the ones with Cesaro and Cena or Bryan.
ReplyDeleteEdge use to email you?
ReplyDeleteI remember that line.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Bret/123 Kid was a good match.
ReplyDeleteThat's nuts. Nash sure worked his ass off in the second half of the match
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think that was RVD's best match.
ReplyDeleteIn a cage, 1 week before Austin walked out, right? Loved it
ReplyDeleteAngle HBK Iron man.
ReplyDeleteDisney has already come out and said the Expanded Universe will be treated as non-canon.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, I think the pitching system and the presentation were the two things MLB2K did better than The Show. Man, that Show commentary is fucking sterile, they could not make it sound more like three dudes in three different recording sessions if they tried. Good thing the rest of the game is tits.
ReplyDeleteI used to do updated rosters for Gamefaqs. I took a few years off as life intruded, but I've actually began working on 14-15 rosters...
ReplyDeleteSNME basically was what Raw became, but with a bit less talking. That's the difficult part. I kind of wish they would bring back a few jobber/jtts matches
ReplyDeleteI always preferred his Bradshaw character to the JBL character.
ReplyDeleteHis shitty commentary doesn't help matters.
Most of my faves have been mentioned already but one that sticks out to me is Flair/Triple H from raw in 2003.
ReplyDeleteThe angle was Triple H assumed Flair would lay down for him but Flair cut this great promo in the locker room explaining why he had to take one last shot at becoming the champ. It was right in the middle of Hunter's reign of terror and I was marking out throughout the match thinking they might actually pull the trigger and give Flair one last run. The match was included on Flair's first DVD set but I wish they would've included Flair's promo from the back. Either way it was a great match and one of my favorite post attitude era moments.
It's one thing to take your craft seriously, or even to be sensitive to criticism, but yikes.
ReplyDeleteA more recent one that was really great: Strong/Ishimori from ROH TV a couple weeks after Final Battle 2013. Far better than anything on that PPV.
ReplyDeleteHey, next year is the Cubs year, according to Back to the Future. Also, Elisabeth Shue will be passed out on my front porch. Yeah...
ReplyDeleteThey had a chance at a great long-term angle with that one. If they kept building Flair after his loss on RAW, they could have done the classic old man underdog story with Flair one last time in a PPV rematch for the belt.
ReplyDeletePunk and Cena last Feb. Love that match!
ReplyDeleteTwo things
ReplyDeleteIs the black scorpion idea at least good in theory and if so how could it have been improved?
I'm surprised that Triple H never tried redoing Flair/Sting with himself and someone else during his time on top. Just seems like something he'd have been all about.
I never really watched much Crocket at this time as I didn't have cable. So I don't really get why or how it went from Luger to Flair instead of Luger to Windham. Is it just because Dusty had to have Windham? (though that Garvin turn that went no where was fantastic). Just seems to me it would have gone Luger vs Windham and Sting vs Flair II at the bash or if you're running war games go Flair, Arn, Tully, Barry vs Sting, Luger, Rhodes, Nikita.
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