The SmarK Rant for Clash of the Champions XXIV (August 1993)
Old rant sucked. Too hot to sleep while I wait for the sweet sweet A/C to kick in. Clown will eat me. Let’s rant. Hopefully there’s nothing legendarily terrible on this show. But what would be the odds of that? I’m also going to have to do Clash 25 because I’ve never actually ranted on it that I can find, but I’m working all weekend so that might take some time.
Live from Daytona Beach, FL
Your hosts are Tony Schiavone & Jesse Ventura
Brian Pillman announces that he has a broken ankle and thus will be unable to defend the belts against the Horsemen. So WCW brass put Lord Steven Regal in his place to defend the belts, since the title change was already announced at the Disney tapings months earlier (and in fact the Nasty Boys were already taped with the belts after winning them at the next PPV…you know what I mean) and they didn’t have any more wiggle room to deal with cases like this.
WCW World tag titles: Steve Austin & Steven Regal v. Paul Roma & Arn Anderson
And so this is how the glorious reign of the Hollywood Blonds comes to an end. Whoops, spoiler. In kayfabe terms, what kind of bullshit is this? If some NBA basketball dude broke his ankle slipping on his diamond-soled Nikes, would they just substitute a random guy in his place for the big championship basketball match? I don’t know, I don’t watch basketball because I’m super-white and Canadian and thus it’s fucking terrible to me, but I’ll assume the answer is a definitive PROBABLY NOT. So Austin attacks AA to start and drops elbows on him, but Arn catapults Austin out of the ring. And then a backdrop behind the ref’s back. That’s CHEATING. As if the Blonds would ever stoop to low tactics like that. So it’s over to Regal to hopefully raise the level of intellectual discourse here, but some WWF job guy slugs away with illegal closed fists in the corner. Regal with the FULL ARMDRAG AND TWIST and Roma is such a clumsy idiot that he trips on his own shoelaces, allowing the Stevens to take over. Pillman accidentally touches Roma’s disgusting greasy hair and is unable to extract his fingers, thus inadvertently choking him out on the ropes. Roma comes back with more illegal closed fists because apparently he’s too stupid to read the rulebook, but Austin uses his superior wrestling to take him down again for two. Regal goes to work on him in the corner and Austin goes to explain things to Arn, but gets punched in the face. I’m disgusted with the tactics on display by the babyfaces here. Roma has the balls to use Austin’s own stungun against him because he can’t invent his own finisher due to his crushing awfulness in general, but the ref is distracted at the absurdity of Paul Roma being a Horsemen and doesn’t see the cover. Finally it’s the hot tag to Arn, but Regal clobbers him from behind because he has it coming. Sir William jumps up on the apron to point out the Horsemen cheating to the referee, but Arn shoves Austin into him and rolls him up for the tainted pin, with the tights no less, and the title at 9:45. What a disgrace. Match was fine and as a bonus most of it was Paul Roma getting the shit kicked out of him. ***
The Horsemen do a post-match interview, and apparently some people thought Paul Roma didn’t have what it takes to be a Horseman. That’s ludicrous! It was WAY more than “some” people!
Bobby Eaton v. 2 Cold Scorpio
Bobby catches him with his head down, but Scorpio rolls him up for two, so Bobby clotheslines him down again. Scorp pops up with a flying bodypress for two and goes to the arm, but another bodypress misses and Bobby takes over. So he works a hammerlock on the mat as this seems to be kind of a weird style clash, but they fight to the top and Scorp dropkicks him to the floor and follows with a dive. Back in, Bobby catches him with a botched neckbreaker and then repeats the move to hit it correctly, which sets up the flying elbow for two. Scorp kicks him down to win a slugfest, and the 450 finishes at 5:25 and nearly smashes Bobby’s face in. So this was a bit of disaster. *1/2
Maxx Payne v. Johnny B. Badd
Hey, speaking of disasters, it’s guitar v. mask in the blowoff for this feud that was triggered by Badd getting a confetti gun sprayed in his face. Payne quickly gets the advantage and pulls off the mask, but Badd is wearing a second mask underneath the first one. Who is he, Rey Mysterio? Badd with a flying headscissors, but Payne puts him down with a clothesline and drops an elbow for two. I feel like Maxx Payne should be doing all his moves in bullet-time while reminiscing about his dead family. Payne goes up, misses a splash, and Badd pins him at 2:50. Well that was certainly an ending. Badd gets custody of Payne’s prize guitar as a result. ½*
A Flair For The Gold with Sting, British Bulldog and a MYSTERY GUEST. So, yeah, this is pretty famous. Sting & Bulldog are ready for the Wargames, but Sid and Harlem Heat interrupt and Sid is ANGRY. So Sting excitedly reveals their partner: THE SHOCKMASTER. And thankfully they leave the announcers “Oh man…” intact on the soundtrack as he bursts through the wall and falls on his ass. Truly this was WCW in a nutshell. It was a memorable debut at least.
World TV title: Paul Orndorff v. Ricky Steamboat
Jesse is still laughing about the Shockmaster during the entrances here. The arena is really dark for some reason, which is weird because it was super-bright for the first few matches. Astonishingly, Michael Buffer is left alone by the Network censors. Steamboat works a headlock to start and they do a really cool wristlock battle with Steamboat bridging like a mofo, but he misses a dive and lands on the ramp. Orndorff tosses him back in again and goes up with an elbow for two. We hit the chinlock, and Jesse notes that this is a hold where Orndorff can rest. A rest…hold? Paul tosses him to the floor and pounds the back, but Steamboat runs him into the turnbuckle and follows with a flying chop for two. Suplex gets two. Steamboat comes back with chops that send Orndorff flying out of the ring, and he follows with a top con hilo! I’ve never even seen him do that before! Well, I mean, I saw him do it when I originally did this show, but that was 20 years ago and I totally forgot. Back in, Orndorff takes him down and works a cover by using the ropes, but Steamboat rolls him up for two. Piledriver is reversed by Steamboat and they do a pinfall reversal sequence and Steamboat gets two off the backslide. Orndorff clotheslines him down again, but charges and hits boot and Steamer gets the bodypress, reversed by Orndorff for two. Paul slams him and Steamboat cradles him to win the TV title at 8:50. This turned into a HELL of a match. ***1/2 Orndorff piledrives him on the belt afterwards in a show of sportsmanship.
Sting & Ric Flair v. Awesome Kong & King Kong
Not to be confused with the Kharma version of Awesome Kong. And how the hell did they get away with naming someone “King Kong” without getting their ass sued off by Universal? This reminds me of the hilarious legal battle that Universal had with Nintendo, because they tried to claim the copyright on King Kong when Nintendo first published Donkey Kong and they felt it was too close to their concept. So in court, after sinking millions into the legal battle, Nintendo questions how it’s possible that Universal even owns the whole “giant ape” concept in the first place. So Universal defends their claim by establishing that King Kong was in the public domain when they released their movies and thus they had the right to use him, which inadvertently destroys their own case and gives Nintendo the comeback win! That was some tricky Eddie Guerrero legal awesomeness right there. Of note here: Future US champion David Flair sitting in the front row. Sting slams both Kongs and hits one with the Stinger splash while Flair beats on Harley Race outside, and the flying splash finishes at 2:10. So yeah, two 500 pound dudes just got SQUASHED.
Rick Rude & The Equalizer v. Dustin Rhodes & Road Warrior Hawk
Animal initially came out as the partner but then Hawk was revealed as the double-secret partner. Hawk tosses Rude into the corner and wins a test of strength, so Rude brings Equalizer (the future Dave Sullivan) in. Equalizer immediately fucks up bumping on a neckbreaker and then goes on offense with a clothesline out of the corner. Rude goes to a chinlock on Hawk, but he escapes when Dustin comes in with a Doomsday Device. Dustin runs wild briefly and then gets caught in the corner and plays face-in-peril. Hot tag Hawk and the break just totally breaks down into a huge mess, but Hawk shoulderblocks Dustin onto Equalizer for the pin at 7:41. This all went nowhere except for a boring match between Hawk and Rude at Starrcade. *
WCW World title: Vader v. British Bulldog
Vader and Bulldog slug it out on the ramp right away and Vader rips off the mask, so you know shit is ON. Bulldog suplexes him on the ramp, but Vader just beats the cornrows off him in the corner to take over. Bulldog gets tossed and Vader tries a flying splash on the railing, but that misses and Bulldog suplexes him onto the railing. Back in, Bulldog with a samoan drop for two. Vader bulldozes him again and goes to work on the leg. To the top, and a flying Vader splash gets two. Bulldog tries a sunset flip, which Vader counters by sitting down, but Bulldog moves and gets two. This only annoys Vader further, so he tosses Bulldog into the corner and splashes him again. WHY WOULD YOU ANGER THIS MAN?! 1993 Vader was an awesomely terrifying monster. Bulldog gets a crucifix for two, so Vader CLOBBERS him to put him down again. He pounds away in the corner, but Bulldog fires back until Vader headbutts him to cut off the comeback. Vader goes up again and this time Bulldog dropkicks him down and pounds away in the corner. Vader boots him down again and goes up with the Vaderbomb to silence the crowd, and that gets two. So he goes up again, and this time Bulldog slams him off the top and knocks out the ref in the process. Smith tries a delayed suplex, but Race clips him and Vader falls on top to retain at 10:49. HELL of a match! ***1/2 So not only did Vader beat the hell out of Bulldog and look dominant, but they made sure to show that he couldn’t actually beat him without help, thus making Bulldog look strong in defeat. And then Cactus Jack charges out to attack Vader as we’re out of time.
The Pulse
1998 Scott HATED this show, but I loved it! The good matches were given time and were exactly the kind of matches I love, and the terrible stuff was kept short and briskly paced. Without commercials it was only 90 minutes and an easy watch. Yeah, it was maddening at the time for WCW fans, but over 20 years removed from the stupidity surrounding the show, it’s a hell of a good wrestling show. Recommended!
I'll tell you this much. I'd rather listen to it than Cole/Lawler/JBL. There is legit passion at least.
ReplyDeleteThe only time I got into an hour match was for the first Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk title match in ROH, but I knew who the guys were and that Joe had been a dominant champ. Doesn't have to be too convoluted (They're Fighting over SHAMPOO), but it has to be something to grab on to.
ReplyDeleteYou guys should've booed him out of principle for that one.
ReplyDeleteThe Kongs & Equalizer/Evad were the drizzling shits! What a waste of good airtime. The Road Warriors return could have gone somewhere if Animal wasn't more interested in cashing insurance cheques but otherwise it was a waste of both Rude & Dustin's time.
ReplyDeleteBut Vader and Steamboat being awesome still makes this an easy watch. Harlem Heat sure got a big push outta the gate would have been interesting to see them go toe-to-toe with the Blondes.
I don't follow the careers of many non wwe/wcw/ECW guys but I always like to stay on top of the awesome high flyers. Like I've seen more mistico matches than Samoa Joe matches for example. So I've definitely watched quite a few ibushi matches on YouTube and the guy is awesome. If he came to the wwe that would be very awesome.
ReplyDeleteI'm Canadian and I like basketball.
ReplyDeleteHope you have about 20 more.
ReplyDeleteDid Harlem Heat get a push? I thought they were pulled by those slavery-esque chains?
ReplyDeleteThey did get sued by Universal so changed his name to Krusher Kong
ReplyDeleteI could go for a cm punk vs Cena 60 minute blow off to that long time feud as long as they reheated it over an episode or two of raw.
ReplyDeleteSadly Rosie not only had to job to Trump, but also to Fudgie the Whale and obesity.
ReplyDeleteRude didn't face Hawk at Starrcade, he fought The Boss, whom wad a sub for the Bulldog.
ReplyDeleteThe wwe could put something together that was good if they wanted or just toss them out there as eye candy like they've done before. Why they attempt to straddle this weird hybrid thing I have no idea? If they are worried about having too much ass or titty showing on their TV shows why not try and put out solid wrestling to showcase what a talented women wrestler could do? Or just get rid of it?
ReplyDeleteHawk and Rude fought at the next Clash in a pretty bad match.
ReplyDeleteThen Hawk and Sting teamed up against the Nasty Boys in a 1/2 hour chin lock on Sting at Starrcade.
I don't know if that ever made it to TV. I only remember them as Harlem Heat with the flames on their tights.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't get a big push losing all their PPV matches for quite awhile but their first big match was a main event so i'd qualify that as a successful debut and yes they were led to the ring by chains but hey it's WCW, that's not even Top 10 stupidest shit they pulled.
ReplyDeleteAwesome new review Scott. I've needed something to distract me today. 😄
ReplyDeleteYeah, Rick Rude fought The Boss at Starrcade, right before he became the Guardian Angel due to WWF lawyers.
ReplyDelete...yes, if a basketball got injured, they'd put in a substitute.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Meltz did give a lot of stars out back then to Japanese matches but it's unfair to criticize the bouts based on what happens like you just did. It's a different wrestling culture, like lucha libre or Euro style.
ReplyDeleteA Japanese wrestling fan might look at an HBK match and wonder why this skinny American is getting his ass-kicked for twenty minutes only to win via one big kick and not understand the psychology of it.
Full credit to Big Show in that feud too. Floyd clearly struggled with worked punches, which was evident when he smashed Show’s nose across his face.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone really liked WWF Duggan.
ReplyDeleteThey have interest in Okada, too.
ReplyDeleteThen, he had to become someone else, due to Guardian Angel lawyers, right?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure it didn't make tv. There was at least someone in WCW or TBS that had some common sense.
ReplyDeleteOn paper, Mr Wonderful vs The Dragon sounds pretty sweet, and so does Vader vs Bulldog. I'd buy in just for those two alone, and a Rude/Hawk confrontation would have sold me too.
ReplyDeleteSo....uh....who were those Kongs anyway, anybody know?
And let me say, we are all bigger and better wrestling fans for having the greatness of the Shockmaster. Through alllllllll the unintended comedy and hilarious fuck ups, we were STILL supposed to buy 'ol Tugboat as a serious threat. That had Dusty's prints all over it. Myyyy mannnn.
"It was a memorable debut at least."
ReplyDeleteScott, did you not see the last WWE Countdown? It was NOT memorable.
Whoa, slow down the technical talk there, Poindexter.
ReplyDeleteWhy do Japanese wrestlers use the lariat clothesline so much as a finisher? Is it mostly because of Stan Hansen? Didn't Hogan also help popularize it over there?
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting to see what 2014 Scott says about Hogans's clash debut. If he still proclaims Hogan ruined it all. The only thing I hate about the WCW Hogan era is the fact that they turned Flair into a paranoid nut heel before losing the title. That and in hindsight, Brutus Beefcake turning heel and wrestling Hogan at Starrcade 94. And shockingly Jim Duggan does carry Vader in their US title match. I liked Duggan, so him squashing Austin still doesn't affect me.
ReplyDeleteHow would you book the card? I'd take a shot but I don't know enough of NJPW to do so?
ReplyDeleteAaaaaaand the Rays score 5 runs in the 7th inning. Sox on their way to 10 in a row.
ReplyDeleteWell, he almost got it right, parallax.
ReplyDeleteI think the circus animal thing was because Vince pushed guys so hard to work that it resulted in deaths from drug abuse but also from fatigue like Joey Marella. He really did treat them like circus animals in the 80s and 90s.
ReplyDeleteIn Japan, the wrestlers don't work as hectic schedules and have time to heal because tours have breaks.
But Jesse Ventura's laughter was.
ReplyDeleteMichael Cole's fake announcer persona is agonizingly bad.
ReplyDeleteWent back to his original Big Bubba Rogers gimmick, sadly this time without Jim Cornette.
ReplyDeleteActually it is Bobby Heenan's fault. He kept calling him the Boss Man.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to Bulldog anyway? He was still in WCW late into the year then i don't remember anything until he came back to the WWF in Summer '94.
ReplyDeleteI want to start with how much I hate hate hate when celebrities compete. Wrestling is always sold as a dangerous seude-sport that takes guys years of training and experience to succeed. Then some celebrity just legit "walks on" and competes. It's hard enough being a fan, let alone Arquette, Seth Green, Toby Keith, Mailman Malone and Leno happening.
ReplyDeleteThat said, as for as competing or getting physical goes, it seems like Andy Kaufman was a big deal. Lawrence Taylor always gets the vote here. But my vote goes to Mr T, he did some big business. Kevin Greene gets much love from me because he seemed to LOVE doing it and was ok at it too. Honorable Mention goes to Dennis Rodman, no so much his wrestling skills, but just a NATURAL fit to be a villain in wrestling. He was PERFECT with Hollywood, but no so much in the ring, as just a presence.
Didn't the Guardian Angels actually appear in a promo video for the new Guardian Angel angle? Or did WCW really think they could get away with that so blatantly?
ReplyDeleteRodman and Malone brought a big fucking buy-rate with them, so they have that going for them.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, that's all they had going for them.
I remember being pretty bitter about the Hollywood Blonds losing the titles in such a bullshit manner, but otherwise, this was actually a pretty fun show. Most of the Clashes from this era, I think, are a lot of fun.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Mr. T/Cyndi Lauper was easily the best of the bunch -- the lead-up with them sold the show, decent match, tons of atmosphere for the angle and the match. Can't really beat that.
ReplyDeleteThe LT/Bam Bam thing I feel is overrated -- it is a decent little match, but overall it wasn't special I guess. It's basically a feud with a midcarder started over a shoving match. Just not much of an angle (or reason) to justify all the hype, the separate ring introductions for all the teammates and the corporation all that, plus it's tagged onto a pretty lame WM.
For involvement and not so much the actual match -- besides Tyson who is the obvious choice -- I actually really liked Karl Malone. He had a ton of enthusiasm and seemed
genuinely happy to be apart of the whole thing. It was sort of a big dream come true for him I think and it shows. The match wasn't so good though. Actually the Rodman match the year before was quite a bit more entertaining (and not so damn long).
I won't disagree too much on the Ric Flair heel turn of '94. Being a paranoid nut over the thought of losing the strap to Hulk Hogan seems like a pretty reasonable motivation.
ReplyDeletePeople are giving a lot of shit towards Jeremy "Summer Fest" Piven and Ken Jeong, but it was totally worth it for the nasty bump Jeong took on his noggin at the close of the show.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Maybe they had a falling out of some sort? For some reason, I seem to remember the Guardian Angles not allowing the run to continue.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing she's done well was sharting herself at Mania.
ReplyDeleteHe almost killed someone in a bar fight, WCW fired him.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, Curtis Sliwa, the head of the Guardian Angels, is a crazy person.
ReplyDeleteSo you lose one head and gain more?
ReplyDeleteHAIL HYDRA
he got huge pops from the crowd. Fans seemed to like him.
ReplyDeleteIs Harlem Heat the most overrated tag team of all-time?
ReplyDeletenot gonna lie: when snookie busted out the handspring backflip into an elbow at wm 27, i was impressed
ReplyDeleteThat segment was one of those things that Vince booked just for himself and didn't give a flying fuck if anyone else cared. He had a political and personal point to score (in his head) and he did. JJ Dillon talks about that in his book, how advisers would tell him something was beyond stupid and Vince's lowbrow sense of humor overrode EVERYONE else telling him it was a dumb idea.
ReplyDeleteHe was the reason I decided to give some Japanese stuff a shot. It seemed like he gave at least one match per show at least ****1/2. I'm sure that wasn't really the case, but it sure seemed that way, so I wanted to try it out.
ReplyDeleteNo,they were just kept together for a long time in an era of numerous title changes so they won a lot of Tag-Straps that they never would have 10 years earlier.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It seemed like Kaufman was the first celebrity that really "got" pro wrestling. Plus his heat was nuclear. And as far as I can recall, he wasn't really in it for the money.
ReplyDeleteTiny Tim, if only because he never had a comeuppance.
ReplyDeletethat duane johnson guy was ok at these last couple wm's
ReplyDeleteThe Kongs were fat guys from Memphis. Like, really, really fat guys.
ReplyDeleteOh I get it. It's because he's a mainstream movie star that had a wrestling background. Very funny.
ReplyDeleteI think it was a contract dispute. Or the lawsuit from the bar fight over his wife.
ReplyDeleteRight. What did Bill Watts JUST GET FIRED FOR, and someone in WCW thought a black chain gang was a good idea.
ReplyDeletehe's a celebrity who doesn't wrestle, yet for some reason takes part in wrestling matches
ReplyDelete"dixie on your pole" match
ReplyDeleteWhy? They had some okay matches with the Steiner Brothers and others.
ReplyDeleteJust saw Captain America: The First Avenger again last night. It cracked me up when Red Skull's foot soldiers just went "Hail Hydra!" whenever he says it.
ReplyDeleteWho thinks they were that great?
ReplyDeleteWhat Clown?
ReplyDeleteTJ http://www.empiresports.co/joe-rogan-to-fight-in-the-ufc/#.U4Ii4WqHiG4.facebook
ReplyDeleteI bet it's Chael he's fighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va_GyIHlRfc
ReplyDeleteI like Pete Rose trolling the Boston crowd at WrestleMania and taking the Kane tombstone. (and his subsequent WM feud with Kane).
ReplyDeleteWhat I thought was funny about the double secret mystery partner was Rude grabbing the mic and saying, "We had feelers out and we knew Animal was your partner..." and they were all like, "ha, tricked you! It's Hawk!" Like it was some wildly different guy.
ReplyDeleteThat's one of the weirdest differences for someone like me who's grown up with US wrestling. All those head-dropping moves only get 2, then a lariat/clothesline gets the 3. I know it's the norm in Japan, but odd to see, as it's just a transitional move in North America.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what would've happened if Shockmaster DIDN'T fall. I mean, were they that serious about putting TUGBOAT in a main event program?
ReplyDeleteDo one show at the Tokyo Dome, where the top NJPW guys go over, then another in the US (MSG?) and have the WWE guys get their revenge. Put them both on the Network.
ReplyDeleteWell he was put into a main event program! Hell he won Wargames! He even got a sustained push for the rest of the year, winning his Lethal Lottery match and moving into the Battlebowl along with winning a Starrcade singles match. Then Ric Flair got the book back and got rid of Dusty's boy cause that's how those 2 rolled.
ReplyDeleteIt was mainly a contract dispute (he thought he should have been getting more pay for the European tours, as he was a pretty big draw there), along with a bit of lingering unease over the bar fight that had occurred that summer. The case wasn't settled for another year or two, with Bulldog being found innocent.
ReplyDeleteWait, was he? I never watched WCW before the nWo stuff, so I had no idea.
ReplyDeleteHeh, I'd never seen this before.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ubeclmQxRc
"I don't know, I don't watch basketball because I'm super-white and Canadian and thus it's fucking terrible to me"
ReplyDeleteMy sentiments exactly!
In hockey players play 45-60 second shifts or so and they switch in and out on the fly. No Substitutions with the exception of switching goaltenders.
ReplyDeleteThat Starrcade match was very disappointing and then topped off with a lame DQ finish.
ReplyDeleteA Shame since the Nasty's could put on a fun brawl which they proved with gusto several times in 94.
I had never seen that before, either. It was okay. One thing about WWE humor in these skits: I usually either find them really funny, or I hate them.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it wasn't a burst out laughing kind of funny, but I chuckled lightly.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they were overrated. They were just okay for several years. As joe noted below, they had some okayish matches with the Steiners.
ReplyDeleteArn holding the mic and running away was great. Plus i loved HHH talking about WCW's greatest moment and Dream immediately answers "me winning the world title!"
ReplyDeleteWhat I really hated about that era was all of the of WWF guys coming in. The Nasty Boys (I know they came in before Hogan, and were in WCW before the WWF), Duggan, Beefcake, Honky Tonk, and whomever I'm missing. I just liked having two different, distinct products to watch and hated the WWF infusion in WCW.
ReplyDeletePiven did give us Summerfest, though.
ReplyDeleteStill the gold standard in my book. Trish,Shelton & Vince making fun of the NFL!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnz5PKdVaOQ
That was one of my favorite guest host RAWs for the sheer ridiculousness of it. Piven's "Summer Fest", then his heel turn, and Dr. Ken taking the bump after being a pain in the ass all night was great, unintentional comedy.
ReplyDeleteYou hush! Basketball is awesome!
ReplyDeleteI was specifically looking for your response as (in classic Meekin fashion) he took your question and put out the inverse of it. Sigh.
ReplyDeletePaul Orndorff pretty much owned it as a heel in 1992-93 WCW. I need to watch that piledriver on the belt again just to see Steamboat's sell.
ReplyDeleteWCW lost Steve Austin,Rick Rude,Barry Windham,Ricky Steamboat & Cactus Jack in the span of like 4 months.
ReplyDeleteBut here comes THE SHARK!!!!
Buyrates doubled ;_;
Harlem Heat basically existed for Booker T. to eventually find his groove as a worker. And for that it accomplished its goal.
ReplyDeleteAnd I enjoyed their promos and the overall presentation of the team when Sherri was the manager....Looked like three people would stiff the fuck of you...Of course Sherri was the toughest of the three but that goes without saying.
Totally with you there. I think I stopped watching as a regular viewer before the guest host nonsense, but that gimmick *really* pounded a nail in the coffin for me at the time. It made it feel far more like a variety show or an episode of the Muppets than a wrestling program (hell, even a sports entertainment program). It didn't help that most of the hosts came off as either clueless, goofy, bored or completely out of place.
ReplyDeleteDid You Know: Basketball was invented by a white guy.
ReplyDeleteYeah I had a specific one in mind too and I think it would have made a good discussion. Next time Farva shows up sober I will just ask him to do it.
ReplyDeleteDonald Sterling?
ReplyDeleteYup. When she was co-hosting the HoF ceremony you could tell she was marking out most of the time.
ReplyDeleteI'm going with The Dudley Boyz/Team 3D.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it kinda backfired on him.
ReplyDeleteJobber was right...you do create arguments out of thin air. Here's something that may or may not have been said four years ago AND--let's be real--no one has given a second thought to...now, let's throw in the word "universal" and rally against it in an exasperated heap.
ReplyDeleteHey remember when WWE booked The Coach to beat Stone Cold Steve Austin?
ReplyDeleteSad sad times.
I've really, really tried to give basketball a chance, but it fucking bores me to tears. My cat likes to watch it though.
ReplyDeleteA super-white Canadian invented basketball
ReplyDeleteThat was make-up/bronzer from one of the other Divas. Girls as hot as Maria don't poop anyway.
ReplyDeleteI thought the way you phrased it yesterday was pretty clear, too. We would have had people clamoring for those who do most of their own stunts (Tom Cruise Harrison Ford) to people who just have the look, and we'd end up fantasy booking like insane people. I think the QOTD should be delegated to more than one person. I think we could get about 5-6 guys willing to write out (once a week) a paragraph intro, the question, and their paragraph-long take on their answer.
ReplyDeleteHow 'bout it?
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It is a bit much to come up with for one person every day... and then maybe we wouldn't have the stupid shit we get on days when Paul can't think of anything.
ReplyDeleteand thank you for that... I didn't think I had been unclear.
if Wayne Gretzky were injured before the Stanley Cup Finals back in the day, believe me, they would have played the Cup without him. Such is the NBA and any other team sport.
ReplyDeleteThat is the definition of a substitution.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's funny how that works out. WCW had a crapload of guys in their prime or younger guys who had star qualities back then, but instead shifted to all the Hogan cronies after he was signed.
ReplyDeleteI've often wondered what would have happened had WCW hung onto a lot of those guys. I tend to think that some of them (Austin, Pillman, Cactus) would have gotten over regardless while some (Hall, Nash) would never have broken out of the mid-card.
Yeah, even if he doesn't trip he's still Tugboat wearing a tinfoil hat.
ReplyDeleteAnd Escobar sets up a brawl stealing 3rd - that's just the sort of classless arrogance a player learns in Toronto.
ReplyDeleteNever wore out their welcome for me, so i can't agree. Keep in mind i've watched approximately 74 minutes of TNA in the last 5 years.
ReplyDeleteHe was arrogant before getting to Toronto. That's why Atlanta traded him.
ReplyDeleteBut they do it on the clock unlike basketball and soccer when the game has to pause.
ReplyDeleteAn injured hockey player has to either drag his ass to the bench or be so fucked up the ref takes pity and blows the whistle.
He's pretty amazing. I'd never heard of him before and he was booked on an ROH show in Chicago that I went to. So I got to see him wrestle El Generico (Sammy Zayn) and was blown away.
ReplyDeleteI loved the Universal vs. Nintendo lawsuit story. "How can you trademark the giant ape concept?"
ReplyDeleteSo true, lol
ReplyDeleteI bought one of his styrofoam 4x4's instead. Still my pick for all-time best wrestling merch.
ReplyDeleteI just remember Cole's over-the-top introducing of him. "That's Dr. Ken! Hey, look King! It's the guy from The Hangover! It's Dr. Ken!" Yeah, we got it.
ReplyDeleteGedo sucked in the ring, as a booker he's pretty good. In ring, no.
ReplyDeleteThey also have lists for best AJPW matches of the 90s, best NJPW matches of the 90s, and lists for both companies for the 1980s as well.
ReplyDeleteYou know what's funny? My first exposure to Orndoff was during this run. When I found out he had a huge run with Hogan, I was pretty surprised.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. For me, basketball is such a beautiful, amazing game when played by five people who know what they're doing.
ReplyDeleteThat was hilarious when they touched on that on Are You Serious
ReplyDeleteIf you ever did anything in the WWF, WCW brass seemed to think you were a big deal.
ReplyDeleteI thought Wayne Brady took the RKO pretty well too
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQq_Hz84r4w&feature=kp
I'll never forget SISTA SHERRI~! Revealed as Harlem Heats mystery advisor. She looked GREAT in that dress.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you are serious or not from these responses so I won't respond with anything too lengthy. But if gaijins = foreigners, there are 20 guys who are easily ahead of Karl Anderson.
ReplyDeleteStan Hansen
Steve Williams
Terry Gordy
Terry Funk
Dory Funk Jr.
Billy Robinson
Andre the Giant
Bruiser Brody (whose work is generally less than stellar but can't ignore his value drawing)
Destroyer (biggest foreign draw of 60's and early 70's - top worker of the 60's-70's)
Mil Mascaras
Abdullah the Butcher
Bruno Sanmartino
Vader
Volk Han
Dynamite Kid
Chris Benoit
Dos Caras Jr.
Scott Norton
Tiger Jet Singh
Johnny Ace
Yes yes yes! Completely agree. Hated that team.
ReplyDeleteLike The Miz!
ReplyDeleteWow, the one match I'd never want to see Dusty Rhodes in.
ReplyDeleteWhich oddly enough, answers Scott's original question of "How how the hell did they get away with naming someone “King Kong” without getting their ass sued off by Universal?"
ReplyDeleteBasketball stopped being exciting the moment LeBron James turned into the NBA's version of HHH.
ReplyDeleteI think it's because there is a difference between a concept and an exact name.
ReplyDeleteI can watch the Dr. D/John Stossel incident again and again because I believe the latter deserved every bit he got.
ReplyDeleteSee, I don't get the hate for Lebron. Never have. If you want to critical of him for the way he handled The Decision, I'm all for that,but it's everything else I don't understand. He's quite possibly both the best offensive and defensive player in the league. Does he get calls? Sure,but stars getting calls in the NBA has been an issue for years, it hardly started with Lebron.
ReplyDeleteYeah, very surprising.
ReplyDeleteEarly-90's Vader was one of my favorite wrestling characters ever. I remember when he came in and destroyed someone on his initial WCW show (the first one I can recall, anyway.) I was in awe. And then when he beat Sting for the title and knocked the fuck out of Cactus Jack, I bought into him as a kid 100%.
ReplyDeleteSay what you want about "Because WCW" but they booked early Vader perfectly.
ReplyDeleteHe and Wade are cheap shot artists and major league floppers (it's nice to know Stern and Silver have maybe issued 1 warning in the last two years to them). I usually liken it to Usain Bolt untying other peoples shoes or tying their shoes together before a race--you're already the most gifted athlete out there, what do you need to cheat for? (And if you'd come back with "everyone's doing it" or "it's gamesmanship," you're still arguing--albeit, in a faulty way--against legitimate reasons why there's a dislike for him). There's probably a couple dozen video compilations of their tactics on YouTube.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't until after he won his first championship did LeBron stop doing and saying stupid things, too. He's only really matured and developed a social conscience in the last year.
Replace "Because WCW" with "Because Hulk Hogan" why Vader ended up losing most of his credibility in 95.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but WCW let it happen, so "Because WCW" is just as valid here.
ReplyDeleteJust to answer the question that parallax actually wanted asked yesterday, I've always thought Ray Lewis would be great in professional wrestling. He's obviously athletic, could probably do a good promo, and it would be fun to see how long it took for someone to bring up "that incident in Atlanta."
ReplyDeleteIf Universal went after wrestling wouldn't King Kong Bundy be the first guy on their list as he's a well known guy compared to King Kong, who's just an obscure wrestler.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Vader was absolutely one of the few times WCW used a guy way better than WWF did.
ReplyDeleteThat list is, what? Vader and Rude?
ReplyDeletewhat's so great about this match is that after the WWE initially made a bad decision (trying to portray Mayweather as the babyface) they did an 180° turn - and Mayweather OWNED the heel role.
ReplyDelete(not being a "cool heel" like Rodman or something like that but instead just being the cocky douchebag "biggest attraction at the moment" boxer)
Iron helps Scott rant!
ReplyDeleteSteamboat, Flair.
ReplyDeletehow stupid was it that she got booed by a part of that crowd?
ReplyDeleteFlair is debatable. I'll give you Steamboat, though.
ReplyDeleteThat may be it. I mean, if you want to argue Steamboat in early-90's WWF vs. 1992/93 Steamboat, WCW did a better job with him.
ReplyDeleteThe cruiserweight division.
ReplyDeleteThe fact WCW used him well is probably why Vince didn't.
ReplyDeleteI won't defend that decision but I will forever be defending those who insult Arquette's person because of this whole angle.
ReplyDelete"All the money he made during his WCW tenure was donated to the families of Owen Hart (who died in a freak accident), Brian Pillman (who died from an undiagnosed heart condition), and Darren Drozdov (who became a quadriplegic after an in-ring accident)."
sorry, but that guy seems way to good-hearted to be mad at him.
I'm definitely with you on Wade. With Lebron, I oddly like him more now than when he was with Cleveland.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how he always dances around that when they talk about off the field stuff on countdown or whatever. I agree though, his nonsensical promos would give Hogan and Warrior a run for their money
ReplyDeleteThe last time we were here we kicked your asssssss
ReplyDeleteVader was the best worker from 92-94
ReplyDeleteHe was so close, yet so far away, Sort of like when he tries to touch his toes.
ReplyDeleteThey should've brought Fred Ottman back for that!
ReplyDeleteI think it works (from a kayfabe perspective) with boxers, football players etc. because they are also perceived as legitimately "tough" and great athletes.
ReplyDeleteI'll argue
ReplyDeleteVader
Rude
Windham
Steamboat
Luger
Cruisers
Pilman (though to be fair he was pretty hampered by injuries once McMahon got him)
to be fair, the rules of that match made it impossible to be any good.
ReplyDeleteFlair is another one I thought of when I posted about Steamboat. He was still used very strongly in the WWF, though, being allowed to win a Royal Rumble. In WCW, we had the Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo eras to contend with.
ReplyDeleteAlso count me as one that like the Vader vs Bulldog matches.
ReplyDeleteProbably. Meltzer was asked once why the WWF didn't do more with him, and his answer basically was that Vader was out of shape and "not Vince's guy."
ReplyDeleteIf Hogan had jobbed to Vader it wouldn't have hurt him one bit with the way Vader had been booked so dominantly.
ReplyDeleteNow that I think about it, I guess you could make a reasonable argument for Hall and Nash, too.
ReplyDeleteGood call. I forgot about the cruiserweights. For this (and many other) reasons, it's a shame WCW didn't make it.
ReplyDeleteI have heard more than one person saying their favorite worker when the watched as a kid Doink. and yes, of course I am talking about post-Borne Doink.
ReplyDeleteRick Rude had a fine WWF career and if he had stuck around in 1990 he would have been great for the next 4 years too. The rest i'll agree with but if Brian Pillman lived he would have been world champion no doubt about it. Especially if his ankle got better over time.
ReplyDeleteDid Rude do the "I'm sexier than you people" stuff in WCW to? He just seemed to be more serious in WCW.
ReplyDeletethe fact that you can quote almost every line of that and it will instantly get recognized here is another proof that this might be the most "historically significant" promo in US wrestling for at least the last decade.
ReplyDeleteAnd they could have built up to a huge damned rematch.
ReplyDeletewhy not instead go the comic crossover route? have them fight at first, then let the good guys join forces to fight a bigger enemy.
ReplyDeleteagree. it's the "not having a cake and not eating it"-approach.
ReplyDeleteShe has a gymnastics background
ReplyDeletewho, in TNA's case, afaik even regularly had the higest-rated segment of the show.
ReplyDeleteEscobar was in the right to steal 3rd. The Red Sox were a bunch of babies
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Luger is they probably should have just had him beat Yokozuna at Summerslam. I get they wanted to do at WM's tenth anniversary at MSG, but the whole thing was just stupid. He won by countout, meaning he failed to win the belt, and he stood there celebrating like an idiot.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see what WWF would have done with Pillman had he been healthy.
He definitely turned up the intensity a couple notches in WCW, his natural heelishness paired against ultimate babyfaces in Sting & Ricky Steamboat = License to print money.
ReplyDeleteWCW did the cruiserweight division better, in general, but most of the top names of the WCW cruiserweights (Mysterio, Jericho, Guerrero) were handled better overall by WWE. Psychosis and Malenko were better off in WCW, and Kidman too I guess (though neither fed did a great job with him). WCW ended up being better for the great athletes who lacked charisma, because they didn't have the chance to have their weaknesses as exposed.
ReplyDeleteThat angle holds up really well 15+ years later. Rose gets that crowd worked up really well and Kane gets a monster pop for destroying him.
ReplyDeleteI have asked this in another thread and apparently NOAH did this in the past... and it wasn't successful.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on Karl Malone, easily my favorite celebrity match because you could tell he wanted to do that forever. Too bad he's such a scumbag.
ReplyDeleteI loved his run in WCW. His debut was one of the few surprises to deliver and deliver spades at that. I wonder how his career would have gone had he not gotten injured.
ReplyDeleteI still remember shaking my head at how lame the WWF's Light-Heavyweight Division was when they re-launched it in '97.
ReplyDeleteWCW pretty much just throw the cruiserweights out there to eat time because they knew they could deliver. Plus they built some good feuds and never scaled them back for "showing up" the big names in the main events. But on the flip side those guys had ZERO upward momentum their entire runs short of Billy Kidman challenging Hulk Hogan near the end.
Fed to Hulk Hogan and he says fuck it and re-signs with the WWF early '95 and is the guy to take the strap off Diesel at Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteBOOK IT!
Say what you will about Dixie, but I'd give anything to be rich and beautiful like she is at her age.
ReplyDeleteK-Fed was fantastic. He left money on the table by not continuing in that role.
ReplyDelete= more comparisons at how huge Big Show's hands are.
ReplyDeleteCrazy to think how different things would be had one injury not occurred here or there.
ReplyDeleteget the fucking DeLorean right now!
ReplyDelete