In the Freebird question you said teams like the Midnights were jobbed out for political reasons. What reasons? Bobby must've been liked pretty well as he got a short baby face run, a TV Title run and then put in the Dangerous Alliance. Was there heat on Stan Lane? Or was this one of those "Because WCW" where they just outshines everyone and were thus knocked down a peg?
It wasn't specifically the Express as such, it was more Jim Cornette rubbing a series of bosses the wrong way (Ole Anderson in particular) and the Express making a lot of money and thus becoming the target of the constant cost-cutting measures. Cornette goes into tons of details in every shoot interview that he does.
He also goes into all of that stuff a ton in his book, the midnight express scrapbook one, which is freaking amazing. Tons of cool stories, results of every midnight express match, pay offs for shows, hates for shows, original hand written booking sheets, including Clash 9 I believe. It's a great book.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, he didn't get along with a lot of people. Jim Herd, ole Anderson, Russo (who's not mentioned in the book until the end I think), and George Scott also I believe.
It's a testament to Eaton's ability and the respect he had within the locker room that, as soon as he became a singles wrestler and parted ways with Cornette, WCW always booked him in the midcard title mix. Bobby Eaton was the definition of a good hand.
ReplyDeleteI love that book. Cornette must have OCD the way he keeps notes but the stories are worth it.
ReplyDeleteI'm already sick of "because WCW". If nothing else, check out the Raw 1994 recaps, Raw was terrible in that era. Why did Raw start becoming good?....because WCW! Nitro to be exact. No Nitro=no attitude era, in my opinion, so that seems like at least one positive "because WCW" to me.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. The whole "because wcw" thing just reeks of wwe's propaganda machine working on everyone.
ReplyDeleteSo X-men Days of Future Past was Fan Fucking Tastic.
ReplyDeleteNext question: "Scott, in your Midnights question you said Cornette rubbed his bosses the wrong way. What did you mean by that?"
ReplyDeleteGood. I can't wait to see it this weekend. Been looking forward to it for months.
ReplyDeleteSounds very interesting. I may look into it, provided it's still available.
ReplyDeleteEh, I don't know. There's denying WCW screwed a lot of crap up. "Because WCW," is just shorthand for, "Look, this company was ran by people who had no clue most of the time, and done a lot of stupid fucking things. And it's just easier to say 'Because WCW."
ReplyDeleteIn 1994 we had Bret vs. Owen, and Bret had a great RAW match with 123 Kid. So it wasn't all bad.
ReplyDeleteThough admittedly, I was never a big WCW fan, especially during the Nitro era. With all of the Dungeon of Doom garbage early in its run. The only good thing was the nWo angle, and even that got old after a year or so. By which point, I was more into the WWF again with their USA vs. The World storyline with Bret and Stone Cold. And I just preferred the overall presentation of the WWF product, in general.
Jim Cornette absolutely strikes me as the type of guy who would piss me off if I had to manage him in any way.
ReplyDeleteOh, God yes. I've managed a lot of hard to deal with people, so I would know.
ReplyDeleteIt absolutely is, on Cornette's own website. And it's worth the $25, IMO.
ReplyDeleteHerd: Complete idiot.
ReplyDeleteOle: I need to look that one up again... the two may have clashed, but Cornette didn't have any real hatred for Ole IIRC.
Russo: Complete idiot
Scott: I don't think so, but maybe. I've just never heard that one.
I'm just gonna tell the best story of how Cornette could be pushed into rubbing people the wrong way... and a reminder how stupid one Jim Herd could be:
ReplyDeleteMidnights are coming up for contract renewal. First offer: 100K for each of them and Cornette. Cornette says he's fine with 100K, but the Midnights need 150K each. Second offer: 110K for each of them, 125K for Cornette. Again, Cornette's good at 100K, but the Midnights need 150K each.
Long story short, the stupidity continued until the Midnights got something like 148K... and Cornette got 225K. Go figure.
Okay, sounds good. Cornette may be a total nut, but he's one hell of a story teller.
ReplyDeleteOh why won't Julie ever understand?
ReplyDeleteThe thing that hurt Jarrett right from the start is that he used tons of cheating and stalling tactics... Against jobbers... HE NEEDED TO CHEAT AND USE MIND GAMES TO BEAT JOBBERS!! It's only when he won the IC title at the 1995 Rumble in a solid match that I finally believed he was credible.
ReplyDeleteYep, they basically settled the feuds on house shows, and when it was done, THEN they put it on TV. It actually kind of makes sense in a crazy way.
ReplyDeleteI'd add WM XVI to the list too.
ReplyDeleteWhich is a good thing, if Cena was just on TV once every few months, instead of wrestling every single week, he would be a lot fresher, and a bigger house show attraction. RAW gives away too much I feel.
ReplyDeleteI thought most of Cornette's heat was with Jim Herd. I've only heard Cornette say good things about Ole Anderson; Ole even helped him out with some SMW promos.
ReplyDeleteOle didn't make the last call of the contracts anyway - he had Vader and Johnny B Badd signed for very reasonable deals until corporate backed up the Brinks truck.
It's unfortunate, WM 9 actually looked very good on paper. I was looking forward to it more than WM 8, and "Hogan vs Big scary heel, version 100". But I'll admit it didn't deliver at all.
ReplyDeleteI think anyone else except Vince would have completely crumbled at this point. After listening to Paul Heyman tell the Vince sneezing story on Steve Austin's podcast, however, I can see where he was able to dig down and endure.
ReplyDeleteOnce the novelty of talking to Jim Cornette wore off, I think that most people would just want to kill him.
ReplyDeleteI can agree with this, ESPECIALLY if you let him get on politics. Keep him on wrestling (I don't think he really follows any other sports), and it wouldn't be so bad.
ReplyDeleteWas Razor's injury a work? Because I thought that was the point of him not being able to wrestle multiple matches?
ReplyDeleteWhere did I claim otherwise? True or false, Samu wrestled as part of The Wild Samoans?
ReplyDeleteAs noted below, everything through 95 is just brutal, especially once you get into the era where Nitro debuts and Bischoff starts publicly calling out their stale TV. I'd skip if it I could, but my wrestling OCD requires me to recap everything in order.
ReplyDeleteNot as a tag team dunkin donuts guy. Just in three man tags.
ReplyDeleteThis fella struggles with yes or no questions. Among other things.
ReplyDeleteHe wrestled on the Raw taping the very next night.
ReplyDeleteI did like the status they gave, that he was cleared for action, but not quite tournament action, and someone of the level of Razor Ramon would be likely to advance, baby!
ReplyDeleteDoes hamerick do his signature bump in this match?
ReplyDeleteNow you see the purpose of a manager, because as talented as Bobby was without Cornette he's the 3rd Mulkey Brother in terms of looks and personality.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry that you don't understand what the term tag team mans, dunkin donuts guy. Maybe you should read professional wrestling for dummies?
ReplyDeleteI can see why they got pushed, despite lazy matches - WCW does stuff predominately in the South, and they were living off past glory. When they won the tag titles I was annoyed, which I guess is the point. Sure there were better teams, but I never thought they were on the level of X-Pac heat.
ReplyDeleteThey DID show well in WarGames, though, and I remember that EPIC 4-on-2 beatdown of the Road Warriors in the cage that set up WarGames.
Don't forget to hold up your pen!
ReplyDeleteTBF, he can absolutely RIP some guys if you give him a minute ("You know if you took Joey Styles' balls and put them in a drinking straw, it'd be like two corn kernels going down a storm drain").
ReplyDeleteAs a kid I hated him because he was called Beautiful Bobby and he was ugly as hell.
ReplyDeleteHEEL!
ReplyDelete;)
Chris Hamrick? The indy guy? I had no idea he was wrestling in 1994.
ReplyDeleteThat one is VERY political, and not in the wrestling politics manner. He's admitted he was "neutral" on Styles until Styles said something about his being a conservative... and Cornette's got plenty of bile for them.
ReplyDeleteRusso might be the only thing he hates more than conservatives.
I'm fairly certain despite the bashing, most people miss WCW. And not for the foolishness that they showed.
ReplyDeleteGreat book for drunken naive marks who really think The Rock's real name is Rocky Melvin.
ReplyDeleteDamn straight. I know I bash the hell out of them BECAUSE they could, and maybe should, have not become the wasteland they were by the end. So many mistakes; some understandable, some making you ask why you ever followed them.
ReplyDeleteYes Russo, we know you found Jesus. Start showing the other cheek, and some of us might actually BELIEVE it also.
ReplyDeleteI think Scott would have noted that... but I can't say that with 100% certainty. And looking for the match elsewhere is a blank right now.
ReplyDeletePure jobber then, mainly noted for his rather (in)famous bump:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kva-_JA4c3Y
Jeez, spoiler alert - Wolverine having an ass is a major revelation.
ReplyDeleteStyles did not just say he was a conservative. he wrote this on his twitter account:
ReplyDelete"Even those misled Americans who voted for the Marxist Barack Hussein Obama are invited to join the Judgment Day Live Chat on WWEUNIVERSE.com."
it is a pretty crazy bump, especially going by 1994 WWF standards.
ReplyDeleteI was just about to ask Scott today about his hatred of the Freebirds. Weird.
ReplyDeleteScott, is it confined to just the Hayes/Garvin version, or the legendary 3-man version as well?
And only because of Roadie's constant interference for me. As a kid I couldn't believe how unlikeable Jarrett was. Not in "Boo, kick his ass" but "Boo, he's on my TV when so and so isn't" way. I mellowed on him over time, but I just never got into his act, whether it's Double J or that weird return in 1997, or "Don't Piss Me Off" Jarrett. Same shit, different costume.
ReplyDeleteThose Doink/Perfect matches, especially the decisive match on Raw, were all good TV matches, too, and managed to make all three a little bit different so not to repeat each match spot for spot.
ReplyDeleteRazor didn't work again until the next IYH. Injury was legit.
ReplyDeleteSee: Whackers, Bush
ReplyDeleteWasn't Ole the cheap fuck who tried getting Zenk and Pillman to quit for being "over paid"?
ReplyDeleteI think they started to get what people wanted to see at the end of 1996, when they started the whole "shades of grey"-booking (the tweaked that formula back again in 1998 to having faces and heels fighting with each other, only at that point the faces were "edgy" faces).
ReplyDeleteI liked how seemingly every heel vs heel match around 1996-1997 was automatically billed as a "Tough man contest"
ReplyDelete"once every few months" obviously is too less (although I'm not sure if you meant that literally). but rotating the "top guys" more would instantly make every appearing seem like a bigger deal (and on top of that you wouldn't have to repeat the same matches again and again: how many Cena vs. Wyatts combinations did we already see? they have matches on almost every Raw/SD show)
ReplyDeleteYep, exactly. Like maybe 1 Cena match every 4-5 weeks, and he can show up for promos/interviews anytime. But wrestling every week, sometimes twice a week = 0 reason to buy a ticket to see him at a house show. We get better and more important matches on free TV every single week.
ReplyDeleteTrue. Ole seemed to have issues with the "newer" guys though, not with vets like Cornette and the Midnights were at that point.
ReplyDeleteUmm...why was Styles concerned with the WWE?
ReplyDeleteJoey Styles, not AJ.
ReplyDeleteUm, because he worked for them?
ReplyDeleteIt's not exactly brutal, there was still some great matches like Owen v Ramon, Kid/Holly v Gunns, Bret v Owen, Bret v Hakushi, Bret v Pierre and Shawn carrying anything on 2 legs to *** matches.
ReplyDeleteYeah I was kind of shocked by that too. I kind of knew him when he was doing indies in Nashville around 2003ish and I thought he was a lot younger than he actually was I guess.
ReplyDeletePretty much the only good match from that horrid Mania.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the Mulkeys!!!
ReplyDeleteI only saw him do it once and just thought it was a botch. Had no idea that was his thing.
ReplyDeleteHe had marching orders to cut costs, same as Watts.
ReplyDeleteWWF did a lot of stupid fucking things, too.
ReplyDeleteIt was totally different to me. I always recognized how good Jarrett was in the ring, and I really liked him once he switched to the "Don't Piss Me Off/Chosen One" deal.
ReplyDeleteWhere applicable, would it be possible to get wwe network links on things reviewed from wwe network? If you just don't feel like it, that's fine, but it would be a nice little thing.
ReplyDeleteOh right, the chosen one thing. Where his gimmick literally was "Hey guys, I am only winning matches because it is scripted, and I am friends with the guy who writes the scripts, so I am awesome!!"
ReplyDeleteYes they have. Yet they've managed to NOT go out of business... granted that WCW's loss was not completely in their control, but we've hashed that one out well enough.
ReplyDeleteInternet wrestling database failed me, it said he wrestled on the tapings but i guess not.
ReplyDeleteRoma claims they weren't going to get squashed at WM7 except he got hurt. Said Vince had a 10 minute match set up...he full of it?
ReplyDeleteThey were a really good team and I don't know why Scott hates him either!
Roman Reigns is the embodiment of both the "Samoan" and "Swat Team" of the Samoan Swat Team.
ReplyDeleteSorry for double post. Re: Roma--it's interesting how conventional wisdom says he was fired after roughing up Wright at SuperBrawl but he actually was around another month or so.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he and Sting are probably the biggest hypocrites in wrestling, at least you don't see Nikita Koloff and Lex Luger participating in a sleazy product while claiming to be devout Christians.
ReplyDeleteThere's a guy currently doing a male stripper gimmick in OVW called The Body Guy and he might be even uglier than "Beautiful" Bobby Eaton.
ReplyDeleteYep, it's right up there with Jerry Jarrett's History Of TNA book as a great $25 investment. Now if only Cornette could write a book devoted solely to production meetings with Kevin Dunn (aka the inspiration for Timmy The Tooth) and Vince Russo, there's bound to be a lot of stories from those sessions.
ReplyDeleteThe Express was before my time, so how did the fact that Stan Lane was a very handsome man work out? Calling him sweet is somewhat of an understatement, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteWhy do Christians have to do things that are "Family Friendly"?
ReplyDeleteI know plenty of devout Christians that swear, tell dirty jokes, openly converse about their enjoyment of porn and violent movies and video games, that doesn't make them bad Christians, it makes them people with a particular variety of taste.
I thought AJ vs. Punk was a mixture of Punk being a hardcore abrasive atheist and AJ being an old-fashioned southern Christian...plus the fact they both some themselves as the king of the indies and had a bit of an ego about it.
ReplyDeleteStupid...or brilliant?
ReplyDeleteThat powerslam on the incoming Shrinker while on the other's shoulders was TITS.
ReplyDeleteThey don't... but when they're trying to evangelize and proselytize, it's much harder to take them seriously when they fail to "practice what they preach".
ReplyDeleteIf they're passive with their beliefs, then I have no problem with what they do in private, or even public. It's when they put themselves forward as "Christian spokesmen/women", and their actions damage their message, that there's any issue.
Heh, I love The Body Guy. He's hilarious.
ReplyDeleteCornette wouldn't be so bad. You'd eventually fire him like everyone else has.
ReplyDeleteHe was fine. In fact part of many wet dreams.
ReplyDeleteDoes TNA do anything that Sting has publicly condemned?
ReplyDeleteAnd the problem isn't Christianity, it's hypocrisy. The religious aspect is unnecessary and shouldn't be mentioned.
This is a place of sharing, so I'm glad to hear that.
ReplyDeleteBut doesn't the fact that your lover heel tag team consists of a swamp person and a legitimate pretty boy kill the gimmick?
I agree. My point, though, is that "Because WCW is a perfectly reasonable description of certain things that happened in that company.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was clear they had *something* in Austin has he started calling Hart out for their Survivor Series match. (That wad un understatement, I know.) And Sid catches a lot of crap, but he was quite good in his role during that period, as well.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Shawn was on fire from like '95 through '97. Besides the back injury, the only thing that slowed him down was that damn missing smile.
ReplyDeleteI've actually never seen that before. Wow.
ReplyDeleteWeren't a fan of "I'm a Freebird (What's Your Excuse?)" I take it.
ReplyDeleteOhh...sorry, I hear Styles I think AJ first
ReplyDeleteIf you pay attention to those around them, it appears that Koloff and DiBiase have profited handsomely by making the evangelical circuit.
ReplyDelete