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Raw Tonight

Watching bits of the show tonight at work with a non fan.  He asserts that it's really fake.  I defend it for a moment, then get to see Davy Crockett fighting Russell Brand and a dude in a lemon suit getting kidnapped and rescind my objections. 

Comments

  1. You get lemons, you are suppose to make lemonade.....

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  2. :shakes head in sadness:

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  3. Was that non fan Andy PG?

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  4. I guess we now know where Scott stands on the Lemon/Rosebud debate.

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  5. I think America agrees with him too

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  6. Awesome. Does this mean I get to piss on the ashes of the "Party Bus" gimmick once it's finally laid to rest? I hope so.

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  7. I still contend that "fake" is the wrong word to describe it. I'll admit to any non fan that it's scripted, then show them *the* Cell match or Hart v Austin.

    Sadly, those moments in time do not occur anymore, and you much of the bullshit that we saw tonight does.

    A fucking midget in a bull suit beats a 6'3" or whatever stud of a competitor named Drew McIntyre. Then he gets his tail ripped off by another midget. Said tail is then kept on ice and "reapplied" by an implied sofomization by his matador keepers.

    How is this supposed to create new fans or maintain current ones?

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  8. Its the kind of quality entertainment that a family can watch together

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  9. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANMay 26, 2014 at 10:33 PM

    Seriously, I'm moving soon and getting roommates to get through the relocation. One of which is a chick that does not watch wrestling (thankfully she has her own vices to make fun of).... things like that are gonna be tough to explain.

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  10. Oh like that will ever work.

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  11. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 26, 2014 at 10:40 PM

    Sadly it's not about entertaining us or creating new fans. It's about entertaining Vince McMahon and his weird ass sense of humor.

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  12. This weekend I saw a wrestling mime use his mime powers to block another wrestler from punching him.

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  13. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 26, 2014 at 10:44 PM

    My girlfriend recently watched wrestling for the first time since she was little because she knows I like it and wanted to educate herself. Sadly, it was on a Thursday...

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  14. "What's Virgil's Gimmick Table's girlfriend doing in the Impact Zone, Tazz?"

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  15. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 26, 2014 at 10:48 PM

    Trying to explain "the scary glow in the dark mask man" was quite the adventure.

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  16. Some of Santino's cobra antics make that shit look like Gotch Vs Hackenscmidt.

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  17. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 26, 2014 at 10:50 PM

    Get ready for "super serious heel Adam Rose" coming to an episode of Superstars near you!

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  18. I, for one, don't let episodes of Superstars get anywhere near me!

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  19. I don't know man a wrestling mime is pretty goofy. At least the cobra exists in tangible space, the mime's opponent has to pretend an invisible wall is blocking him.

    I should clarify that I have no problems with Chikara's antics, I in fact love them for it.

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  20. "Fake" isn't always a bad thing in itself. Some of the best matches and promo segments are "fake."


    It's when segments become outright insulting to the intelligence that there are problems.

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  21. HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!!!

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  22. They're telling stories!


    DIRTY stories!

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  23. If live gives you Rosebuds, make Citizen Kane?

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  24. "As for Lemon v. Rosebud, I'm issuing a restraining order. Lemon must stay 500 yards from Rosebud at all times."

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  25. So Raw is back to sucking. Remember WM 30 where we all thought WWE had turned a corner? I'm too addicted to wrestling to ever really stop following it, but still......"shakes head".

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  26. Please don't think that Britain loves him just because he got a good reaction in London. We take to terrace chants quickly (witness Fandango) but we tire of them quickly enough too (witness Fandango). And they're all idiots anyway down there.

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  27. Brad Maddox's WWE Network special, "Leave the Lack of Memories Alone", will air this Thursday before NXT.

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  28. I just read a tweet that insisted the Whoopi Goldberg sign my sister and I were holding up ruined the show.


    Sorry y'all.

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  29. I know people were excited post-WM 30, but I knew the odds were against it for two reasons:


    a) I felt Bryan was going to fall into the trap of "good guy wins and now has nothing to do with the title." He rose to the peak on the mountain and there really wasn't a lot for him to do after he beat Orton, Triple H, and Batista in one night. I think they booked that triple threat wrong and should've had Orton tap out. That way they could've done Bryan vs. Batista at Extreme Rules, but whatever.


    b) WWE tends to phone it in for nine months out of the year until the Rumble. The "Road to WrestleMania" is all this company cares about anymore. They haven't really given fans a reason to invest in a SummerSlam card in a long time and they've let Survivor Series go to hell. MITB has been a good pay-per-view in recent years, but the company just lets things collapse post-WM time and time again. Sadly, I don't think this will change outside of making Night of Champions a big card so they can try to get more Network subscribers.

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  30. Wasn't Scott one of Adam Rose's biggest proponents? As in get this guy out of NXT and push him with that same act RIGHT NOW?

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  31. Ha, you were at this show? God bless your soul. I hope the Lord gives you back the three hours you had to spend watching it live.

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  32. With foreword by Kizarny and Eric Escobar

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  33. If you're gonna be random, then bring a sign that says something like "GveqUssgaui"

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  34. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 26, 2014 at 11:10 PM

    That's not true. Remember that one time when he wore a turtleneck and made a match?

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  35. I don't mind goofy stuff like Santino's cobra so long as it's confined to the lower shows.

    For instance, I remember a few years ago Santino and Zac Ryder had a really fun match on Superstars and they actually built the psychology of the match around the cobra. On Raw it'd be stupid, but on an internet only show like Superstars? It actually made for an interesting match because both wrestlers sold the cobra really well and the crowd bought in. At one point Santino hit the Cobra on Ryder's leg and Ryder sold it like he'd been shot by a gun. His leg went limp and he sold it really funny. It can work, if the execution and setting are right.

    One of my favorite comedic moments of the past few years was the Santino/Socko standoff in the 2012 Royal rumble.

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  36. No, I really don't.

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  37. Virgil's Gimmick TableMay 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM

    Or "Jag Tindh".

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  38. Or 'Taman Shud'. Let the conspiracy buffs lose their shit.

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  39. Was he a heel in NXT? Ive only caught the NXT special event, so I have no idea...

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  40. I disagree on not giving fans a reason to invest in a SummerSlam card in years. Last year they gave the fans Punk/Lesnar while also letting fans "choose" the SummerSlam main event and give their guy Daniel Bryan a title shot.


    Brock/Triple H was a big match the first time at SummerSlam 2012.


    They gave fans a returning CM Punk vs. John Cena in a title unification bout at SummerSlam 2011 and the conclusion of the Orton/Christian series of quality matches.


    2010 had the hot Nexus angle before it died a sad death.


    2008 had Batista/Cena for the first time plus the blow off of the long running Edge/Undertaker feud inside Hell in a Cell.

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  41. Batista froze when he saw it. Especially when I started tapping it and screaming "ACADEMY AWARD WINNER!"


    Xavier Woods loved it.

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  42. Man that Nexus thing wound up being a lesson in how to not make money...

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  43. Im glad my kid was eating dinner during the Torito stuff.....

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  44. Last time I watched Superstars was back in the 80s and it was a different show....

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  45. I think I last watched it circa 1991.

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  46. Sound arguments, but I didn't really care for Brock/Triple H (thought it was a waste of Brock) and the 2011 SummerSlam in LA would've been better with Rey vs. Cena than bringing Punk back so quick.


    I think part of why I'm not enthusiastic about those cards is that Bryan's win quickly gave us the Authority nonsense, Brock/Triple H led to a terrible series of matches, CM Punk vs. Cena gave us ADR as champion, and the Nexus angle was killed by Super Cena that night.

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  47. You didn't ruin the show, WWE ruined the show.

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  48. A great man once spoke about money and leaving it on a table.

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  49. Yeah, that thing had leg to go to Mania.

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  50. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)May 26, 2014 at 11:27 PM

    You should try BoD RAW. It's booked better.

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  51. I think that character could work great as a heel with his entourage causing distractions or getting involved in matches...



    There is no way this is going to get over with him being a face. I was rooting for Swagger tonight. It takes a lot to make Swagger come off as a face...

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  52. And the midcard actually has purpose.

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  53. The midcard is the strength of BoD RAW...

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  54. Might as well just take him back to the party atmosphere that is NXT.

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  55. Yeah, complete opposite of WWE.

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  56. I like they are trying to infuse some fresh faces into the product but this thing isnt very well thought out. I mean why am I suppose to like a guy that comes out with a dude dressed as a lemon?

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  57. In WWE's mind, it's because everyone like to party!

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  58. Im not sure there is really any kind of strength in the WWE product at the moment..


    The diva's are the weakest since they brought that division back during Sable's run...


    The announcing team is the worst I can recall since becoming a fan in late 84. We are talking teams that featured Lord Alfred Hayes and Bruno for Christs sakes...


    The tag division stinks, the secondary titles give very little to care about...


    Kane and HHH are still heavily featured in 2014, and the the upper card is still full of the same dudes from years ago...


    Renee Young pretty much one of the few good things at the moment. I like Barrett and Cesaro but I dont trust WWE to elevate em....

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  59. Cesaro seems stuck in a rut since he left the Real Americans.

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  60. Ive been to plenty of parties in my day, never once did it look like that crew....


    Before we know it, most of WWE will consist of comedy guys. That is fine if they knew comedy meant being funny....

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  61. He seems less interesting with Heyman. Heyman using Lesnar's win to draw heat is hurting more than it is helping in my opinion....


    Maybe this is leading up to Lesnar/Cesaro but I dont see Cesaro on that level yet....

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  62. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMay 27, 2014 at 12:14 AM

    In the name of the Arquette, the Caan, and the Jimmy King:


    "WRESTLING'S NOT FAAAAAAAAKE!!!!"

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  63. Swagger IS a face in the mark cities WWE serves. He'd be idiot simple to "turn", so of course they haven't.

    Rose has been destroyed by their use of him. Why not let him beat up on a natural, low-card enemy like 3MB in the first hour when people still have energy? He's supposed to be fun, fer chrissakes.

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  64. I'm not as down on Cena as some BODer's, but the last minute of the 2010 main event was simply inexcusable. Shame, as up to that point it had been a fun throwback to the old SurSer elimination matches.

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  65. I'd love Smackdown to be turned into said party atmosphere. A fun wrestling show - how novel. I feel like a booked show reminiscent of Memphis Wrestling would do well on Fridays.

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  66. Ask him how real CSI is?
    (Is that show even still on?)

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  67. Booo! At last two people watch that show!

    It is flattering they do that show for Stranger and me

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  68. I dvred and only watched the Bryan segment and the end of the Cesaro/rvd match. Finding it hard to care lately. That said, we've got a few decent matches on tap for Payback.

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  69. This is why I believe in the talent. Xavier Woods is bursting with personality. WWE is bursting with writers who see a black guy and assume hippity hop rapster. He's clearly a huge nerd, which btw is marketable now. Big E is hilarious, but we get Mark Henry Jr. Wrestling is "yes and", not "read script".

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  70. Again, they had no reason to break up that team. The Hollywood Blondes nod in agreement. Well, not Pillman obviously.

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  71. To be fair Bryan is an NWA face. In a better world I'd watch him once a month at the Kiel Auditorium challenging the heel NWA champ. This surgery was great for his career as the new Dusty. If he's champion beyond Summerfest they messed up the booking.

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  72. Yeah, because Adam Rose is the problem here. Right.

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  73. But WWE doesn't want you to believe in the talent. They want you to believe in the brand.


    If they get five million slack-jawed yokels to tune in out of habit no matter how bland the product is, then WWE becomes a stable profit machine, immune to any bone single point of failure, like a main eventer's broken neck.

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  74. Looks like you need more rosebuds at work, Scott.

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  75. I actually made the attempt to explain the function of the guy in the lemon suit and everything, but the problem was double compounded because the other guy didn't know who Russell Brand was either. I was fighting a hopeless pop culture battle.

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  76. Did You Know: Rosebud was named after William Randolph Hearst's alleged pet name for a part of his mistress' anatomy.

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  77. What does wrestling have to do with WWE?

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  78. Why waste your time on RAW when you could be watching this instead?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kugvUbMio

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  79. Have the Voynich manuscript as the gospel of Sister Abigail, too, why not?

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  80. You just don't want to admit that the things that amuse you bore and confuse the rest of us normal people.

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  81. I hate the whole, tired "It's so fake!" argument, too.

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  82. ..."I like wrestling."
    Love his delivery of that line, after the first line.

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  83. Lucky he didn't watch the El Torito segment where he is in 'pain' because he lost his tail.

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  84. exactly. I know that comparison is a bit overused but I am sure most grownups didn't watch Star Wars thinking it looked "realistic".

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  85. Because McMahon.

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  86. I've partied with people like that crew.

    Mind you I had dropped shrooms.

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  87. Hm... I spent the night watching a show full of ants, evil Swiss, and Jimmy Jacobs wrestling each other. I'm just going to keep quiet about fake and real.

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  88. Sounds like my girlfriend. I have to explain every pop culture reference to her, too. Sometimes, I just don't bother and see if her classmates will do it. They usually don't.

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  89. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)May 27, 2014 at 6:02 AM

    Why do their ropes look like they're made out of rubber bands?

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  90. Jef Vinson (Homewreckers Inc™)May 27, 2014 at 6:04 AM

    Isn't that what always happens when Vince breaks up a tag team?

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  91. A guy in a lemon suit?

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  92. Hey NXT is a good introductory point...

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  93. Scott, don't be a Lemon. Be a ROSEBUD!

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  94. A show that took three hours but felt like nine hours ruined the show.

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  95. I thought Braden Walker help with that forward as well.

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  96. I'm guessing you're being sarcastic..

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  97. Payback last year is when WWE turned the corner, or at least turned the corner until after Summerslam.

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  98. The "Power Half Hour"!

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  99. And the ring is about as high off the ground as my mattress.

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  100. I hope you missed the bit on Raw with the Matadors Bull defeating Drew McIntyre in a match, then having his tail ripped off by Hornswaggle and then wwe treating it like it was a serious thing with the bull in the trainers room getting looked at afterwards. Otherwise you would've rescinded your objection a lot sooner lol

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  101. Did anyone notice that when Swagger did his run-in, nobody came to Adam Rose’s aid? The guy has an entourage about 20 deep, yet no one tried to save him! You mean to tell me 20 people can’t take Jack Swagger? Did Zeb hold them all at gunpoint in the gorilla position?

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  102. Given Adam Rose's character, I'm thinking none of them are really the fighting type or in a mood to get angry.


    Plus at least half of them wouldn't pass Wellness. And that's before you include Eugene.

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  103. I don't think Scott was that high on him...let's see

    3-6 rant
    Rose’s entrance is the GREATEST FUCKING THING EVER. He comes out to wacky British pop with an entourage of party animals, and then crowd surfs off the apron onto them while singing along with his own song. I’m not even doing it close to justice.


    3-20 rant
    Rose remains the most fun new character in forever


    4-10 rant
    The theme song is BACK. Phew. And the crowd starts SINGING it during the match! This is gonna get over huge on RAW. Rose hides in the ropes, which offends the British jobber, and Rose takes him down with an armbar. My mind is still blown at how fast and effectively he changed the character over. Birch fights back, but Rose gets mad and chops him down, into a broncobuster and spinebuster. Middle rope elbow finishes at 2:55. Get this guy to RAW!

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  104. So, Vince McMahon works with you?

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  105. I had a similar reaction after watching the El Torito tail incident, and then the Davy Crockett/Adam Rose/Jack Swagger stuff put it over the top for me. I pulled some other examples from last night's Raw that points to a new low point in 2014 (and maybe beyond) for WWE: http://whatculture.com/wwe/7-reasons-mondays-wwe-raw-might-bottom-barrel.php.


    Quite frankly, I was embarrassed as a fan. My wife doesn't get why I watch wrestling, and sometimes I think about having her watch an episode, but then something like this comes along, and she'd think I slipped in the shower and banged my head. Hard.

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  106. They made two big mistakes with Rose:

    1. His debut on Cince de Mayo should have been one of the most over the top and insane things in the history of Raw. You could tamp it down after that, but the first impression needed to be BIG FUCKING DEAL HERE!!!

    2. The Real Americans still just don't work at all for creative purposes. I mean, objectively using grouchy old racist white guy Zeb Colter as a first foil for Rose's character is perfect, but in practice you still have the problem that "grouchy old racist white guy" is, in fact, a FACE character to a huge chunk of the WWE's audience, especially in a place like East Tennefuckingsee.

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  107. Whatculture is embarrassing to me as someone who uses the internet.

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  108. And why would the lemon care if he gets kidnapped? Isn't Rose putting him down all the time? And am I the only one who thinks of the Spectacular Spider-Man theme song, vaguely, when I hear Rose's theme music?

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  109. The Heyman pairing has done him no favors. He leaves Zeb and joins Heyman, who talks more about Leanar than Cesaro

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  110. So many clicks.

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  111. Meanwhile, I'm watching the first few matches from Mick Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses DVD (vs. Vader, vs. Nasty Boys in streetfight). And you had to watch someone in a lemon suit. Yeah, no difference at all.

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  112. If Eugene ever came to Adam's aid, he would probably steal his heat.

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  113. Yeah, that's a thing.

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  114. Yeah, Adam's party entourage do look like a major trip.

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  115. Hell no. Joe Briggs is my breakout pick to claim the 500th spot in this year's PWI 500.

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  116. Why is their TV title a two foot high trophy?

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  117. Pro Tip: Never take Zanatude seriously. You will enjoy your time here more if you ignore him.

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  118. Way to work in a cheap plug... it will probably help. Disqus comments = web traffic

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  119. AverageJoeEverymanMay 27, 2014 at 9:05 AM

    They should also give Big E a 2x4 and start calling him Blacksaw

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  120. Actually, Scott Carlson is right on in his assessment. I enjoyed reading the article.

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  121. You, sir, are a goddamn genius.

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  122. That whole Adam Rose debacle is more like a BROWN rosebud, AMIRITE???

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  123. why skip 2009? CM Punk and Jeff Hardy going against each other in a tlc match (which was the last ppv match of their feud as well as the first time CM Punk closed one of the big four).

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  124. as mentioned before, I am not really "ashamed" of being a wrestling fan because almost everybody has got something "stupid" they love (for example my ex-girlfriend is gigantic Twilight fan).

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  125. I don't think that has to do with it being "on a lower show" but instead with the performers putting effort into that match.

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  126. The Love-Matic Grampa!May 27, 2014 at 10:03 AM

    Saddest truth of them all.

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  127. I have a guy at work constantly telling me its fake yet he thinks the Repo shows he watches is 100% real.

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  128. Those types are just there for the party Man. If there boy goes down, they just find a new party.

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  129. Is it bad that I also don't know who Russell Brand is?

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  130. He's lucky he doesn't know who Russell Brand is....

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  131. and just like the WWE, their best worker hasn't wrestled on the show for months.. I AM CM PUNK!!

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  132. That's a bigger crowd than TNA can draw.

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  133. With a special appearence from Ricky Ortiz and his Ricky O Rally Towel.

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  134. I didn't wanna make my post go too long. I could have used 2007 when Cena/Orton was a big deal and Triple H returned, or 2005 with Hogan/Shawn.

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  135. Close, but not quite.

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  136. Santino getting the Cobra turned around on him is awesome too.

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  137. I know! I try to tell people basically everything they see on TV network programming is "fake."

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