Scott,
Vince Russo tweeted this about Bryan Alvarez RE: the Death Of WCW 10th Anniversary Edition (which Vince seems to have a big problem with)....
Gotta go to bed. Word of advice--If wrestling books aren't written by the WRESTLERS---don't believe a word in them!
He posted a few other whines about Bryan and the book if you care to read them.
Let's see, now...Vince Russo is by anyone's definition not a wrestler but he has written two books about wrestling.
Bryan Alvarez is a former indy wrestler and has co-authored two books (I'm counting the two editions of Death Of WCW as two different books because of all the new/revised content in the new edition) as well as a regular writer for a long-running, well respected wrestling newsletter.
So by Vince Russo's own standards, we should disregard his books completely.
Sounds good to me!
By that logic, no one should buy MY books, either!
Wait, what's that uncomfortable silence about?
Also, please don't forget that all the good stuff that happened with Russo around was his doing, but all the bad stuff he either can't remember or wasn't responsible for. So it's not like he has much more in the way of credibility. Not to mention his entire WWF gig was predicated on blowing up the old way of former wrestlers doing things that way that they always did and needing a fresh outside viewpoint and all that bullshit. Frankly I'm shocked he has time to tweet, because those MVP backstage segments don't write themselves!
Are you calling a former WCW Champion "not a wrestler"?!
ReplyDeleteHOW DARE YOU.
Were there not a lot of people who had a problem with Death of WCW? Or was that a completely different book?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the majority of late WCW crowds could actually kick his ass. As could the majority of any other crowd at a show he's been involved in.
ReplyDeleteHey, Hulk Hogan didn't wrestle either.
ReplyDeleteHaven't read a lot of wrestling books but Jericho's next book is coming out in September! I'm there! Everything covering his "Honest Man" run and feud with Shawn? Yes sir.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a Russo guy, but he had about as much to do with the death of WCW as I did.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Its a bit slanted and without full facts in some areas. Good read though.
ReplyDeleteNever read it but from what I heard it is basically just Fingerpoke of Doom bullshit.
ReplyDeleteRusso has never read the book (he says) but he has seen his face on the cover and has always assumed its a roastfest on him. He's right, he didn't kill the patient but he did beat the shit out of a dying one
ReplyDeleteYou're Ed Ferrara?
ReplyDeleteAlvarez's newsletter is well respected?!
ReplyDeleteI am El Gigante.
ReplyDeleteThere needs to be a "I'm a Vince Russo Guy" T-Shirt.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the back it says "SWERVE! I'm actually a Dusty Rhodes guy!" Then on the fine print on the bottom of the shirt it says it must be returned because it was acquired via illegal transaction.
ReplyDeleteI never read it, but I remember Keller hated it, and just killed it in his review.
ReplyDeleteI am El Dandy.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't understand the audience and wanting to put the title on Tank Abbot was an idea worthy of being fired. He did get the belt on Arquette and has repeatedly defended this even calling the belt a prop.
ReplyDeleteAlvarez certainly has his fans, but I never really cared for his newsletter. I always thought he does fine in his analysis on the audio shows, though.
ReplyDeleteI know a lot of people hated the chapters in his second book that didn't involve wrestling, but I thought they are a fun diversion.
ReplyDeleteYou can buy it on vince russo website
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pyroandballyhoo.com/product/swerve-t-shirt/
I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired.
ReplyDeleteCan wrestling fans write a bout about the IWC? Is that okay, Mr. Russo?
ReplyDeleteIsn't there a iwc movie being made...I'm sure it was on kickstarter
ReplyDeleteIn your case, no.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that...
ReplyDeleteWHO ARE YO *dies from self inflicted gun shot wound*
ReplyDeleteRusso is a bonafide fucktard, but it doesn't matter who was running that ship, it was still hitting the iceberg.
ReplyDeleteFalling on his sword, or gun in this case, for the obvious joke. You're a jam up guy, cult.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the people who slagged it never actually read the book. It goes really in-depth with financials and PPV numbers to show what an utter fucking disaster the company was, and frankly Russo is full of shit because he claimed to turn ratings around when it was documented that the ratings went down. I can imagine the backstage stuff being hearsay, but the hard numbers don't lie.
ReplyDeleteWell, sure. I mean ppv buyrates declined by something like 80% under his creative tenure, house show attendance dropped to almost nothing, and the television reached a new level of unwatchability, but yeah, he just happened to be there. Might as well blame Doug Dillinger or Lance Storm.
ReplyDeleteWe lived in a world where we had WCW world champion David Arquette. Tank doesn't seem like a bad choice to be champion by comparison.
ReplyDeleteThere are some things to admire about Russo, and in particular his genuine desire to get everyone over, not just the stars. But the other day I watched Bash at the Beach 2000 for the first time, and I was getting legitimately angry at his promo on Hogan. Sure Hogan was a manipulative bastard, but that whole thing just came off as self serving tripe that made no sense. It had no place on the show, and was ridiculous from an entertainment perspective. In fact his whole worked shoot style didn't come off as edgy or cool, just self indulgent. Then there is the fact that he's doing this all for a complete zero like Jarret.
ReplyDeletePoint is, WCW could have done gangbusters business, and AOLTW was always going to treat it like a boil on its ass. The song would have remained the same, they were going to choke it until it died with Vince Russo or Jesus Christ at the helm.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the book is the lack of research. It's literally just week by week what was on TV and how stupid it was. So it's a good resource for that (although all that info is available online, and a better history of WCW week by week would be say, CRZ or John Petrie's reports). But, at least in the original version, there are almost no interviews or quotes from people who were there at the time, offering their perspective. He doesn't even quote from the multitude of shoot interviews out there, let alone interview people himself. It's the best book out there about WCW, but a much, MUCH better book could be written.
ReplyDeleteRusso is difficult to listen to. He was on the MLW podcast last week and it was awful. His partner in crime, Ed Ferrara, comes off as a decent guy and is somewhat interesting.
ReplyDeleteWait are you talking about WCW or TNA?
ReplyDeleteAOLTW sure, but if they were doing gangbusters, the company would have easily been sold in 2000/1 to someone not-Vince, and Eric would have easily been able to find a decent channel for it. For the birds anyway, under Eric they'd still have ended up like TNA and been shit forever.
ReplyDeleteIndeed! What a resume old Vinny Ru has.
ReplyDeleteAnd WCW World Champion Vince Russo.
ReplyDeleteAt least Tank was, at some point, a legitimate ass kicker.
Hell, I would have taken WCW World Champion Kwee Wee over the two of them.
Alvarez may have been a former Indy wrestler, but Russo is a former WCW World Heavyweight Champion.
ReplyDeleterevisionist history. they didn't choke it dead, they simply pulled the plug on the corpse (rightfully so). Yeah I know, we all whine about Kellner hating wrestling, woe is us, WCW could haved been a contendah, whatever. It was garbage that had been garbage and it was the right decision to pull the plug.
ReplyDeleteAfter I argued about this at least 45 times a few weeks on here, I can't do it anymore.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't stand Russo, but I do give him credit for wanting to make sure everyone had something to do. I wish the current WWE writers would do that. Just...in a much better way.
ReplyDeleteIt's just always so clear that, despite his protestations that he's a completely changed man, that he's learned absolutely nothing and still takes no responsibility for what damage he did with his booking.
ReplyDeletenot as good as the wrestling stuff, but not bad either.
ReplyDeleteHaven't listened to Russo's recent podcast, but the other interviews I've listened to with Russo, he seems like a decent laid back guy and it's hard to comprehand it's the same guy that's a cancer on the wrestling business. Same with Ed, I listen to him on MLW, and he seens pretty cool, but judging what a lot of his colleagues say about him, he's completely clueless to the wrestling business.
ReplyDeleteChristianity might save but it doesn't change your brain.
ReplyDeleteFurther proving that it dies with or without Russo. It just would have remained a vegetable much longer.
ReplyDeleteThe death of WCW is a debate that will rage until the end of time, my friend. :)
ReplyDeleteEd teaches right now. I have to imagine he just was in it for the money. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteexactly. the numbers were correct, which proved Russo full of shit (by the way he came out this week on his website and claimed when he was briefly invited back to WWF in 2002/2003 they were doing sub 3.0s. I'd have more sympathy for the guy if he didn't spout BS about easily found stuff on google like ratings). But the book generally was just a recount of characters and events with the authors admittedly stereotypical smark perspective. It is interesting enough but it isn't scholarly. That said, nothing in the book is generally wrong, just opinion based other than some numbers (although the actual losses of WCW aren't public info so those may not be correct)
ReplyDeleteand you were wrong then. If WCW was still doing 98 numbers, they find a spot on the schedule or at the very least it sold for big dollars and finds a spot elsewhere. It was a corpse and there was no reason for AOL/TW to keep it around on the schedule with their rebranding because the ratings and advertsing dollars, along with revenue/cost simply wasn't worth it.
ReplyDeleteYeah I don't think Tank would have been a bad choice as champion if they built him up to that level. My only problem with Tank was that he was feuding with Jerry Flynn at the time and all of a sudden Russo wanted to put the title on him.
ReplyDeleteWCW was doomed to fail, and was never going to be a viable contender, because with the exception of 96-97, it had been garbage since its "formation" post-NWA.
ReplyDeleteI know but it was literally popping up in every thread for like a week straight, even in unrelated posts. I rather hang myself than argue about the death/sale of WCW again.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't.
ReplyDeleteSo was David Arquette - I think their credibility levels are about equal (i.e. about 0.001 above me)...
ReplyDelete1973 Vince Russo: "Vince McMahon Jr couldn't possibly book a wrestling show because HES NEVER DONE IT."
ReplyDeleteand the losses were much higher. In 91 it was a vanity project for Ted that got decent ratings and lost a couple million. In 2000 it was losing 20-40 million depending on who you ask and Ted was no longer there. There were other cheaper options to put on TV, options that didn't have the stigam. Remember in addition to the general "wrestling fans are idiots" stigma, in 2001 you had full on PTC stuff and wrestling was pretty toxic. People had trouble differentiating between WCW and WWF on the vulgarity (although Russo had tons of boobs and pot references on his shows despite the alleged censorship of TW he always whines about).
ReplyDeleteI'll NEVER FORGIVE RUSSO FOR PUTTING THE BELT ON DAVID ARQUETTE.
ReplyDeleteThat no good SON OF A BITCH.
DAMN HIM TO HELL!
STONE COLD! STONE COLD!
-channeling Jim Ross.
you'll be missed.
ReplyDeleteyou're not allowed to post here!!!
Yeah!!!!
Name that reference
Sold for big dollars? I know we all like wrestling, but it doesn't fetch anything APPROACHING "big dollars" even at '98 numbers. Anyone who had a modicum of financial sense would look at their out of control, guaranteed salaries and said "fuck that".
ReplyDeleteAnd, as much as we hate Russo, the finances were fucked well before his arrival.
Too lazy to google.
ReplyDeleteI assumed that Russo was being lazy/conserving characters, and that by "wrestlers" he was talking about all people involved in the wrestling business?
ReplyDeleteSurely a promoter or a referee would know enough shit to write a legitimate book as well?
But regardless of their validity, Scott's books are entertaining bullshit and worth a read, perhaps even a purchase.
well bigger dollars than in 2001. Even with the contracts (most of which were renewable on a yearly basis or even had 90 day options to cancel) it made money hand over fist in 98. I can see someone paying a good amount if their was a TV slot on a good cable network to go with it.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Russo is he never went far enough. David Arquette, 3 time World Heavyweight Champion would have turned WCW around imo.
ReplyDeleteand some refs and promoters have written books. As well as a ring announcer.
ReplyDeleteSo Pat Patterson "came out" to the other Legends on the Legends House season finale.
ReplyDeleteDidn't everyone and their mother already know Patterson was gay?
your loss
ReplyDeleteSo, fun read but don't take it as Gospel?
ReplyDeleteWill there be a Slammiversary thread?
ReplyDeleteI'll live.
ReplyDeleteWWE should bring Arquette back as Miz's "Hollywood buddy". I was disappointed that he was a one week thing during Miz's title reign.
ReplyDeleteit was more about losing his long time partner. The wreslting guys didn't act surprised about him being gay.
ReplyDeleteHe's never publicly admitted it though.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that anyone with half a brain would have thought that '98 numbers, or anything close, was sustainable. It would be the equivalent of wasting your paycheck on lottery tickets because you hit for $60,000 once. They had a hot angle, and built a hot new star...which floated them through an amazing river of shit otherwise.
ReplyDeletePat and Lombardi broke up? :(
ReplyDeleteHmm that's a real good point. There would be a lot of skepticism from investors as to the sustainability of the business model. "So what's your creative plan to maintain this level of revenue if the nWo angle runs out of steam?"
ReplyDeleteWhy? That is like a POW asking for directions to the firing squad.
ReplyDeleteShould have just said fuck it and made it 17.
ReplyDeleteFigured it would be entertaining.
ReplyDeleteIt was just a PR stunt.
ReplyDeleteHis defense of the Arquette thing makes sense. Yes, it got them on USA Today and it got them on Entertainment Tonight. But at the end of the day, wrestling to most people in the country meant WWF, not WCW. He may have stirred some shit, but nothing WCW did, even with the formation of the nWo, was able to shift the paradigm.
ReplyDeletei'm sorry have you met the internet stock bubble of the late 90s? Or the more recent bubble of 2008? Don't underestimate investors stupidity when something is hot.
ReplyDeleteWCW started to die when I stopped watching. Extant killed WCW!
ReplyDeleteExactly. They would have had to sustain numbers approaching 97-98"to be financially viable, and that was not going to happen under any circumstances, even with good booking.
ReplyDeleteAren't you the site author? You can post your own Slammiversary thread without asking anyone else to do it.
ReplyDeleteit was all negative attention, like ha ha, not positive like Tyson.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't make sense because that shit doesn't translate.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I'm thinking, a lot of news articles were running with the story, even People Magazine.
ReplyDeleteJust do a Sunday night thread. More of us will be watching basketball.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't hot. It was hot for pro wrestling, but in the grand scheme of the financial world, it was a mere cunt hair.
ReplyDeleteand game of thrones
ReplyDeleteAnd the story goes that it was a weird one punch victory in a battle royal or something, I think. Like, the least credible and dumbest way he could've done it.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be the longest hour and half of my life waiting for 9.
ReplyDeleteehh, have to agree to disagree. Dominating the TV ratings, cover of TV guide, Goldberg all over the media, wrestlers on talk shows, Leno, Rodman, Karl Malone, it was pretty hot.
ReplyDeleteExplains why the Brawler had all that time to be on all those DVD's
ReplyDeleteSunday night thread is posted.
ReplyDeleteAnd, unlike Russo, Arquette did the time honored tradition and dropped the title right in the middle of the ring.
ReplyDeleteHigh above it, but still right in the middle.
also to add this same financial world went crazy for anything internet related, including stuff that even a five year old knew wasn't a viable model. I wouldn't be so quick to discount it.
ReplyDeleteBrawler probably had a lot of inside scoop to spill thanks to Pat's pillow talk.
ReplyDeleteAny repetitive action will change your brain over time.
ReplyDeleteBut again, anyone with eyeballs and math skills knew that it was unable to be sustained.
ReplyDeleteI'll concede the point that some dipshit might have bought it out of sheer hubris, but I doubt it would have been a different ending, just a different annoyed parent company.
I honestly thought this was one of the strongest episodes of the show. Like I said last week, they needed to edit the show towards wrestling fans, because they're the only ones crazy enough to be interested in watching something like that.
ReplyDeleteA lot people probably just take Russo's numbers as facts. Most people don't check things. How long did Nash get away with completely confusing 1999 and 2000 when defending the fingerpoke of doom? He continually stated that Goldberg got injured immediately and killed the angle, despite that happening a full twelve months later. People just parroted it.
ReplyDeleteWe and my brother ordered New Blood Rising the next month, and what a mistake that was. It never gets mentioned among the worst ppv's ever, probably cause everyone just erased that from their brain. The show ended with Booker T being hit with garbage. I felt so bad for all the talent involved.
ReplyDeleteYes, the second worst kept secret in wrestling history.
ReplyDelete*Makes mental note to watch New Blood Rising, just out of curiosity*
ReplyDeleteand that is probably what he hopes for. The best part of the WCW book is the week by week dissection of the numbers to show how they went down. And they make a great point that Russo always forgets, and so do many fans. That is he killed the third opposed hour, in essence he took an average of one unopposed hour and two head to head hours and made it one and one. Yet ratings didn't go up. And the resulting ad revenue loss just killed him.
ReplyDeleteThat was money left on the table.
ReplyDeleteI think that's when they pulled the "that's not in the script" card for the first time. I won't spoil all the crap if you've never seen it, but it's Russorific.
ReplyDeleteLegit question: I realize no one cares about TNA anymore, but is there really anything more to the rumor about Russo still writing TNA? I know it was a dirtsheet rumor, but is there substance to it other than that? Not trying to put down the sheets, just honestly curious.
ReplyDeleteRambo would do that. Then he'd blow shit up.
ReplyDeleteFrom what was said on Wikipedia, he's not working for the company anymore.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. And even if the ratings HAD gone up, pay-per-views plummeted it. And that was far more important to WCW's bottom line than the difference between a 2.6 and a 3.0. That kind of minor fluctuation that Russo loved bragging about meant less than nothing. Raw goes up and down between that level all the time.
ReplyDeleteAnother problem with Russo's WCW style of booking was that he wrote the show assuming that everyone watching was up to speed on the latest backstage rumors. A ten year old fan who didn't read the internet constantly for wrestling updates watching Bash at the Beach 2000 would've been lost.
ReplyDeleteI thought they did the "that's not in the script" spot a lot of times before that, but maybe that's my own bias against Russo talking. The PPV was the one with the Goldberg/Nash/Steiner triple threat right?
ReplyDeleteuggh, I think I hated that more than anything else in wrestling, including even the Bushwhackers biting butts or some of the really vulgar stuff in WWF in 99. How could anyone think it was a good idea to bludgeon the audience over the head that they are watching a show, but hey this next segment is the only "real" thing. Just stupidty at its worst. Advertising a Goldberg heel turn? Talking about finishes on camera? Announcers shouting that wrestlers would have to improvise because the finish got messed up? Just awful
ReplyDeleteI always assumed it was understood. Even on the Legends of Wrestling, any time Pat says something with any sort of innuendo, one of the panelists ribs him a bit.
ReplyDeletePatterson: "I knew he was a guy I could really get behind."
(Lawler bites his tongue off from laughing)
Hayes: "I'll bet you could, Pat."
Ross is good for these too.
I found the side stuff entertaining.
ReplyDeleteThat period is kind of a blur and I don't have the timeline down. It may have been done before but I don't remember
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure its just a baboon with passable handwriting at this point.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I read it, sounds about right.
ReplyDeleteThey definitely "broke the fourth wall" in awful ways before that, but I think that that ppv was the first time they literally went "There is a script. This isn't on it. What happens now?"
ReplyDelete"although Russo had tons of boobs and pot references on his shows despite the alleged censorship of TW he always whines about"
ReplyDeleteWhich always cracks me up. Yes Vinnie, the reason TV sucked is because you couldn't show more boobs and make more weed jokes. That's what was missing from your otherwise winning formula.
I felt the worst for Tony cause he had to get that nonsense over. Wouldn't be surprised if he started updating his resume after the show.
ReplyDeleteI think Petrie summed it up like that. Everything you are watching is fake, except for this bit, which is real. And then he would do that for every segment. It just comes across as incompetent production, not hard-hitting reality.
ReplyDeleteWho would win in a shoot?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm unclear on that myself. From what I can piece together, Russo is officially there as an advisor and doesn't have final say. John Gaburick has the final say, but I believe he uses a lot of Russo's ideas because he doesn't know any better. Plus I'm sure Gaburicksaying "it came from Russo" would get into Dixie's good books so he'd be able to keep his job for awhile longer.
ReplyDeleteThe stuff with Vince and Bret was the best cause they never had to break character to do their worked-shoot stuff. Also, the fans didn't have to be privy to inside info to keep up with what's going on.
ReplyDeleteI agree with that. Back even before Russo, WWE had interesting lower card angles.
ReplyDeleteLol yeah, it's difficult to tell thanks to Russo's ADD booking.
ReplyDeleteYeah, definitely. There was always a television reason to go along with the real version. Same with the Michaels/Bret feud. Everything was perfectly balanced. Great booking all round. I can only assume Russo's input was minimal.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Hennan, Tony was pretty clueless that the company was heading into the wood chipper.
ReplyDeleteI skipped them on first reading but I reread it and included them. I agree, they weren't bad. In the hands of someone less engaging they could have been derailing.
ReplyDeleteIs that the Tenay and Heenan after Starcade 98 going "Well that's that. We're done" story?
ReplyDeleteWow! Was he still angling for the head job at that point?
ReplyDeleteIt was the fingerpoke of doom story where Heenan was concerned that they just shit over 40,000 fans and Tony was like "everything is fine".
ReplyDeleteI wonder when Tony turned. I'll have to go through 1999 closely and try and find the exact moment his heart breaks.
ReplyDeleteHere's the last two minutes of Kronik vs Muta/Vampiro from New Blood Rising. Just awful, awful, awful. I wondered if Scott reviewed this show.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijF67s3U7KE
I don't think Tony was ever emotionally invested in the product to care. I mean was there a wrestler Tony was best friends with and wanted to champion? Bischoff had Hogan, Russo had Jarrett, Jim Ross had Steve Williams, but can't think of one for Tony.
ReplyDeleteAlso disappearing for all of football season and turning up and saying your ratings on Monday are up half a point doesn't constitute a turnaround as a show runner.
ReplyDeleteIt was the best of times, it was the BLURST OF TIMES?!
ReplyDeleteWas that the story where Kronik didn't want to job the titles to Rey Rey and partner (I forget who, think it was Juvy) so agreed to drop the titles to Vamp/Muta so they could transition the belts to Rey.
ReplyDeleteVince Russo is truly the M Night Shyamalan of professional wrestling.
ReplyDeleteNo, guess not. Didn't really appear to have many friends or allies in the business, did Tony.
ReplyDeleteTank, the UFC heel who mocked an opponent's convulsions and talked about getting aroused watching his highlight reel is a top tier draw. Turner would never let him do that character.
ReplyDeleteThat's sounds plausible. I just found Scott's review and Muta/Vamp weren't even in the match. That's hilarious. From his review:
ReplyDeleteDisco Inferno is the in-ring ref and the other Animals are lurking
around ringside. He slow counts everyone throughout the match. Epic
Palumbo v. Adams match to start. Hey, shouldn't Brian Adams be a massive
babyface here? (I recall that one going completely over everyone’s head at the time for some reason.) Hugh
Morrus plays bad-pun-in-peril for a while. A long while, in fact, as
the crowd completely goes bored out of their mind with yet another
sleeper spot and some horribly mistimed stuff from everyone involved.
There's just nothing happening. Finally, Kronik gets in and the match
breaks down six ways from Sunday, as they try High Times on Palumbo, but
now Vampiro and Muta add ANOTHER team to the match and run in. (Why was Muta getting such a huge push at this point?) Kronik
still pounds Palumbo, but Disco won't count. So now Chavo Jr. adds
ANOTHER run-in to the match and steals the ref shirt, counting the pin
for Kronik himself (and thus screwing over his own team) at 12:23. I
think Kronik has actually gotten WORSE since getting this big push.
You'd think that WCW would have looked at the horrible clusterfuck that
was Thunder and realized that this was gonna blow goats, but I guess
that's why I'm not in charge. DUD (Vince Russo actually
booking matches was such an unmitigated disaster that I’m frankly
shocked most days that they didn’t just shut down the promotion and call
it a day in July.)
Bryan Alvarez is a narcissistic loser asshole who thinks his shit doesn't stink.
ReplyDeleteFlair got Tony his initial job with Crockett but I never heard much about their friendship after that.
ReplyDeleteAs much as we like to blame Russo for WCW's death (and cultstatus brings up plenty of points that indicates it's misplaced and that DDP getting the belt is when everything started going south with the ratings).
ReplyDeleteHowever, I honestly think one of the major factors that lead to the demise of WCW was how the company completely blew their shot with Goldberg. I think a lot of people forget how legitimately huge Goldberg was (something that the sales of his DVD over 15 years later indicates). Goldberg as unstoppable world champ going through all comers was THE angle WCW needed. Instead, Goldberg's title reign was treated as a secondary attraction to the drawn-out never-ending NWO feuds.
Seriously, just look at Goldberg's PPV title defenses: his very first PPV he beats Hennig in a four minute match. Then there was a battle royal that put him over eight NWO members at once (including guys who would've been possible PPV opponents, like Luger and Sting) at Road Wild, he wasn't on the card for Fall Brawl, he beat DDP at Halloween Havoc (who was an upper midcarder at best), didn't appear on World War 3 (as Jericho was revealed, he went hunting instead), and then lost the title at Starrcade.
What about a Hogan vs. Goldberg rematch? Goldberg vs. Luger? Goldberg vs. Sting? Goldberg vs. Hart? Goldberg vs. Savage? Goldberg vs. Flair? Goldberg vs. Giant? There are at least ten PPV-worthy opponents that Goldberg could have ran through at least once while champ.
The more time passes, the more I find myself agreeing with Bobby Hennan: the streak should've never ended. Goldberg was a legit mainstream star. WCW's PPV buyrates would've been huge if the company actually knew how to build a PPV match with him against a worthy oppponent.
Ha, you could pretty much cut and paste that last quote and use it everytime Russo was in charge and the quote would still seem fresh and new everytime.
ReplyDeleteWhat? Losing streaks don't do it for you.
ReplyDeleteIt is incredible. The decision to put the belt on him was a pretty last minute thing, and if the focus of the promotion was set to be Hogan vs Warrior throughout the autumn and winter so be it. But for him to literally be doing NOTHING on two PPVs was insane.
ReplyDeleteTo Goldberg/DDP's credit, they worked hard to make it seem like it was the real main event of the show.
ReplyDeleteI did what now?
ReplyDeleteOh, it was definitely Goldberg's best WCW match and they deserve credit for it. But also if you remember most of the audience didn't even see it because the PPV ran long and they showed it the next night on Nitro.
ReplyDeleteWasn't that Nitro was the last Nitro to beat RAW in the ratings, too?
Sorry, I read your stuff too much back in the day. :) I probably remember your reports of shows more than the shows. I hope they were accurate. :/
ReplyDeleteYes! And neither his Bash at the Beach match or his Road Wild match were the main events (Bash was the Hogan/Leno crap and Road Wild was the Hogan/Rodman/DDP/Malone crap). So Goldberg only main evented TWO PPVs as champ: Havoc vs. DDP and Starrcade vs. Nash.
ReplyDeleteThat's totally my deal, dude.
ReplyDeleteA faux pas of nuclear proportions. My humblest apologies.
ReplyDeleteI was actually looking back myself to see what the landscape was like at that time. Surprised to see that WWF had actually gotten a bit stale (this is early 2000 I'm talking about) and wrestling fans were eager to see Russo & Bischoff try to turn things around. So they put on nonsensical angles and gimmicks, shortened the matches to nothing, pushed the young talent as heels & old stars as faces... basically everything Russo would later do again & again in TNA. The fans turned on the product, WCW turned on the fans. (Remember how they blamed all the bad internet reaction on Meltzer, who they accused of being a WWF employee?) I believe the Nitro before the Arquette PPV was the lowest rated ever up to that point.
ReplyDeleteI remember that. Russo crowed about all that famous mainstream attention the Arquette win received, but then yeah, the following Nitro did an absolutely terrible rating.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, I was hyped about the Russo/Bischoff regime too. Anything that got me away from seeing Hulk Hogan and Sid main event a PPV I was perfectly fine with.
ReplyDeleteThe act is already getting old.
ReplyDeleteHe is friends with RD now so not sure why he'd slam the book
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to Russo, Death of WCW is complete bullshit.
ReplyDeleteI think it was pretty clear by the time of Arquette--or very shortly after--that WCW had seriously damaged their fan base. Then they turned on the internet/smart fans, while delivering an insider-centric product that would conceivably only appeal to them. It was all just... a mess.
ReplyDeleteExplain.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the shoot Russo and Ed did with Wade Keller a few years ago, Ed was actually a long time wrestling fan and was actually simultaneously writing for USA Network and working indies on weekends. Around spring of 98, the WWF was looking for another writer to work with Russo (Cornette stopped working on creative at the end of 97), Ed was brought in and he and Russo clicked and the rest is history.
ReplyDeleteRusso tries to be a good guy, at least. I believe him there. But, when you get him into real wrestling conversation and anything about his history, the bullshit flows quickly.
ReplyDeleteScott's vitriol towards Russo used to be second only to Jim Cornette.
ReplyDeleteHow about it's not sourced? At all? It's whole premise that booking killed wcw is totally inaccurate. It's also chock full of nonsense and just plain mistakes.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the first?
ReplyDeleteAn overlooked part of Punk's worked shoot.
ReplyDeleteNot a SINGLE THING that he said doesn't work in Kayfabe. That's what made it brilliant
Vinny V would kick both of their asses.
ReplyDeleteHe writes for Meltzer's
ReplyDeleteSo yeah
It's full of made up assumptions and theories based on dirtsheets.
ReplyDeleteSome of my favourite chapters are non wrestling.
ReplyDelete"Canadian Jesus" might be at the top of that list
Wayne Gretzky: "I know you, you're that wrestler. Jeff Jericho!
Jericho: OH MY GOD CANADIAN JESUS ALMOST KNOWS MY NAME
Mine?
ReplyDeleteThey don't ignore the AOL/Time Warner merger and Brad Seigel ya know
ReplyDeleteWCW was doomed to die with or without Vinny Ru so he didn't kill WCW but there's no question he's definitely killed TNA.
ReplyDeleteIf Jeff Jarrett just listened to his dad and took his advice, TNA wouldn't be in the position they're in now.
Spike TV would be better off dumping them for a better fed like PWG, Traditional Championship Wrestling or even CZW since CZW has at least been around for 15 years and have been somewhat profitable during that time frame, that's more than what TNA could accomplish even with their alleged resources and the fact they once had the most loaded talent roster in all of wrestling.
Is being a Russo fan sort of like being a Rob Liefeld fan? They're both out there but Lord knows why...
ReplyDeleteAlso, you gotta love that Kevin Von Erich gets TNA their best ticket sales in a long, long time and TNA repays him by never once mentioning him or his sons on Impact. That's some WCW level shit right there.
ReplyDeleteKinda like how Impact Non-Wrestling is full of made up assumptions and theories that people want to watch wrestling shows that have total nonstop talking even though the past several months of ratings prove that's not the case at all.
ReplyDeleteThey were mentioned on TV and it was all over their website for 3 weeks.
ReplyDeleteHe addressed this on the RD & Blade Show/Wrestlecrap podcast a month ago. He says he hasent worked for them since February 2012.
ReplyDeleteAnd we know people involved in the wrestling business are virtuous and people to be trusted.
ReplyDeleteIts fake
ReplyDeleteNice comparison. I never thought about Russo being like Liefeld. Perfect!
ReplyDeleteOh dear.
ReplyDeleteCare to defend an alleged wrestling show that once had EIGHT talking segments in a row? No other wrestling show in history, not even the worst WCW shows have ever done that. WWE rarely has TWO talking segments in a row, let alone EIGHT.
ReplyDeleteWho cares?
ReplyDeleteWe get it, you don't like TNA. For someone who hates TNA as much as you, you spend an awfully long time bashing them. You've had probably 15+ posts tonight alone bashing TNA. If you don't like it, that's fine.
ReplyDeleteThat's actually a really good defense.
ReplyDeleteIsn't that what we're supposed to do? I mean, I call my friends names all the time and let them know how terrible they are; that's how they know I like them!
ReplyDeleteIf I'm just being polite and civil, I either don't know you or don't like you.
Well, the one problem with Punk's worked shoot was that he had basically been Mason Ryan's manager up until about 3 weeks before it. So it did seem weird for him to be so self-confident, kayfabe wise. But, he was a heel
ReplyDeleteTNA quite often has really good wrestling matches and a talented roster. I want to like them but they make it hard with their badly acted skits and constant tributes to WWE.
ReplyDeleteWhy not just book a wrestling show that revolves around great wrestling and strong promos? That formula has succeeded for the past oh seven decades so why not go with something that's guaranteed to get an audience, sell tickets and draw money instead of creating angles that exist only so the owner and head writer can put themselves on TV and cost the owner's parent company a fortune even though there are far easier ways to lose money like going to Las Vegas or just burning it in a bonfire.
Liefeld: "Giving men bigger pecs than the average woman's tits.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, but Sting vs DDP was last time Nitro beat Raw in a segment.
ReplyDelete