Think the blog would like this trip down memory lane, looking at how Mike Tyson vs. Hulk Hogan almost happened & what happened when it didn't.
I've heard that one about Savage getting the World title in 1990 before and to this day I'm really skeptical about it. I just don't think Vince was as serious about apparently switching the main event to Hogan/Tyson and Warrior/Savage as it's portrayed.
in the direst of straits since the 80s, they still managed to run small arenas mostly in the Northeast and had action figures, a magazine, video games, t-shirts, and still ran on PPV and had a show in primetime. Thinking about how much bigger they are now, there's just no way bankruptcy ever happens. After they lose any ditchers after that 6 month mark, i bet we see WWE films get dropped and maybe some more roster cuts. They'll be fine.
ReplyDeleteThe new TV deal pays them something close to $150 million dollars a year, how the hell could they go bankrupt?
ReplyDeleteEven if the stock dropped to a penny a share and they went private again, i can't imagine how they could go out of business.
BTW, how condescending was that column writer in 1990? The guy makes it sound like King and McMahon were committing massive insurance fraud. They were going to promote a show, not hire goons to knock kids out in the parking lot and steal their lunch money.
ReplyDeleteThey pay indy extras 200 a shot now a days. Do you know how many quality wrestlers would grovel at their feet to pull 200 a show for a couple of weeks loop? They can cut their costs for talent, yet still make money because the marquee says WWE.
ReplyDeleteThey are way too cautious to ever get to the point of being close to bankrupt again (BTW, just how close were they really in 1997 to being out on their asses, anyway?). It would take a MASSIVE boner on Vince's part to put the company in that bad of shape. Even the Network failing isn't a big enough wrecking ball to damage the company to that degree. As Scott said, they have far too many safe guards in place.
ReplyDeleteI know, but back in 1990 King and McMahon were considered just about the sleaziest people in sports. 1990 was around the time the highs from the first five WrestleManias and Hogan's popularity in the media began to turn south.
ReplyDeleteNot saying that justifies it, but I totally get the tone based on the context of the time.
Don't buy it exactly like that. When you watch the fans going as RABID as they are for a IC title match at SS 89 and you see the reaction Hogan and Warrior got when facing off in the rumble, you have to believe they were penciled in for Mania.
ReplyDeleteWhy couldn't it have been that Tyson cost SAVAGE the match, and we still get Tyson at Mania, just against the Macho Man (King), while Hogan and Warrior still takes place?
I just got my monthly Paypal notice of billing for the network which reminded me I can happily cancel in 3 months when my subscription runs out in early October. I essentially never use the thing outside of the monthly PPVs/specials since I'm getting enough free wrestling content as it is from Raw that I don't need to go digging for more.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if they vastly overestimated the interest in the network by thinking PPV and TV viewers would be the ones to latch on. I think a better measuring stick might have been those who were picking up the DVD sets and really were craving tons and tons of historical content rather than casual fans tuning in weekly to Raw to see whats going on for 1 to 3 hours.
"Linda would have to run for Senate two more times to really put a dent
ReplyDeletein their finances to the point where it would be an issue. "
So you're saying it's possible?
If WWE would stop involving themselves in things that don''t involve wrestling in anyway (XFL, Awful movies, and failed Senate Runs) they should be fine. Therefore, WWE is doomed.
ReplyDeleteI always thought the backup plan was Perfect/Warrior? And considering how much of a fan Tyson is, I'm sure it would have taken way less than a hundred mil to do a match.
ReplyDeletenot saying it is likely or inevitable but some very large companies that no one ever though would disappear have gone away over the years. Kodak is one that jumps out. Other iconic brands like JC Penney, Kmart, Radioshack, etc. are on death's door. Never say never. I think if WWE did go bankrupt that professional wrestling would be done on any large scale.
ReplyDeleteI think he meant The Million Dollar Man, his pop.
ReplyDeleteJust saw Andre head smash himself after Joey Marllea grabbed Hogan's hair.
ReplyDeletevs. Razor Ramon, 1993
ReplyDeleteVs. Hulk Hogan, 1988
Vs. Hacksaw Doogan, 1985
Vs. Bob Roop, 1982
Vs. Ric Flair, infamous bleeding match
Vs. junkyard dawg
Tyson was a fan? Didn't he get everyone's names wrong in 98?
ReplyDeleteI never want to see a DiBiase/Savage match from 89 ever again.
ReplyDeleteDon't you mean 1988
ReplyDeleteMaybe not the current product, but Tyson often talks about being a huge fan of Bruno Sammartino and Billy Graham in his youth. Plus, in 1998 he wasn't exactly in the best state of mind.
ReplyDeleteTyson is a huge fan of pro wrestling.
ReplyDeleteIt would still survive in indy promotions. There are many genres of music that aren't popular at all anymore. Despite this there ares still countless indy acts grinding on the scene and making new music. Wrestling would have a similar fate in a world with no wWE.
ReplyDeleteXFL could have been a success. They shot themselves in the foot with the Kevin Dunn production and featuring WWE announcers. Jim Ross gets a pass but Jerry Lawler, are you fucking being serious? A partnership with ESPN would also have been ideal as ESPN shit all over XFL and basically buried it with a lack of coverage. There was the whole fiasco with Maurice Clarrett like 1 year after XFL folded. Imagine if Clarrett and Mike Williams would have gotten to play in XFL instead of sitting out a year. That would have been a huge sports story. Marcus Vick is another guy who could have said fuck you and played in the XFL and been a big star.
ReplyDeleteWere his matches with Mr. Wonderful any good? I wish somebody put out a Wonderful DVD.
ReplyDeleteScott has never told a good "zjnger". He's an ok guy but he's not funny in the least
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly, some of those movies make money. Of course, these are mostly the ones that don't star wrestlers in the lead role (The Call, Oculus).
ReplyDeleteIs Dibiase's title reign recognized? I assume it's not because he's not spoken of as a former WWF Champion. But I think it should. He held it longer than Kane.
ReplyDeleteThat makes more sense.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but I think a lot of the companies/brands that you mentioned are dying/died because of modern technology making them expendable. I don't see WWE as a casualty of The Internet. I think WWE will be able to cutback a bunch to save money if necessary and that they'll be fine in the long run. Even if they have to do drastic stuff like further cutback and simplify the stage sets they use or even start taping every other Raw, they'll figure out a way to make it work.
ReplyDeleteCold Stone is the man!
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of people bringing up Steve Austin in 2001. It's played out, it's repetitive, and nobody has a better alternative to what he would have done that year as a babyface. It was all going well until that gosh darned invasion. Just stop already.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point. I guess I should have been wondering if they still had the footage. Of course WWE would own the videos.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Goldberg turn heel for a few weeks before doing a "shoot" interview talking about how he didn't want to do it? Those last 2 years of WCW are very blurry to me.
ReplyDeleteAlmost every TNA heel turn ever.
ReplyDeleteCM Punk in 2012 was awful. He was one of the most over guys on the roster, fans didn't buy it. He did everything short of stomping a box of puppies in the ring and still got cheered, and not good "cool heel" heat but actual babyface heat. He ended playing a cheesy Southern style heel and exploiting his Memphis fetish, just awful. When he finally got the chance to be the actual last match on a PPV not involving Cena he choked big time failing to do his promised "Flair carry job" against Ryback. That match sucked. Now had they turned Rock heel instead of Punk, fans would have eaten that shit up with a fork and spoon. Imagine how cool that Mania season would've been with Hollywood Rock battling CM Punk and then going to Mania against Cena.
ReplyDeleteHonorable mention to a number of Vince Russo heel turns during his WCW run such as Goldberg and Sting.
It might not technically be a turn, but they missed a golden opportunity to turn HHH face in 2001.
ReplyDeleteThe timing was really bad in Texas at Wrestlemania. Plus fans were really ready to hate The Rock again.
ReplyDeleteAnd if Cena really did have that worst year story going, it would have made everything better.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I'm surprised we haven't had a DiBiase DVD yet considering the likes of Roberts and Perfect have had one.
ReplyDeleteI see what you did there!
ReplyDeleteDid Jesus tell you that?
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've seen
ReplyDelete1.jyd/mr Olympia vs dibiase/borne mid south 82
2. Dibiase vs magnum ta no dq mid south 84
3. Ted dibiase vs ric flair mid south 85
4. Ted dibiase vs jim duggan coal miners glove mid south 85
5. Ted dibiase vs dick Murdock 85 mid south payback for flair match
6. Dibiase/dr death vs Hayes/Gordy badstreet match 87
7. Dibiase vs hogan wwf 88
8. Dibiase vs savage wm 4
9. Ted dibiase vs savage wwf msg 88
10. Ted dibiase vs savage cage match wwf 88
11. Ted dibiase vs ultimate warrior wwf main event 90
12. Ted dibiase vs shawn michaels wwf 90
13. Ted dibiase vs bret hart wwf 91
14. Ted dibiase vs Virgil summerslam 91
15. vs steiners 93
16. Money inc vs steiners cage match 93
1990 was also around the time some disgruntled vets like Bruno and Superstar Billy Graham turned bitching about the WWF, steroids, and the like into a cottage industry on talk shows and in the media.
ReplyDeleteI think really this was just a rumor and never really substantiated. Maybe a pipe dream of Vince's. The WWF planned out things MUCH longer term at that point anyway, and I'm pretty sure they knew they were running with Hogan/Warrior after No Holds Barred bombed and the Hogan/Zeus match-up seemed to hold little possibility of being a good match.
ReplyDeleteWarrior was always clearly being groomed for a showdown with Hogan
anyway, with the way they had the characters mirror each other as
'equals'. Warrior had the whole hulk-up routine and the 'LIttle Warriors' and co-pages in the merchandise catalog and all that.
Entertaining the thought though -- Tyson was murdering PPV records left and right in his prime and the WWF was pretty clearly on the downward slide at this point, but I'm not popping one good payday would have done anything for the WWF in the long run, given the kind of money it probably would have required.
The DiBiase Posse segment would require at least two DVDs on it's own.
ReplyDeleteBecause there is just soooooo much footage to go through.
The Hogan/Savage program was so beyond dead in 1990 that it isn't funny. Savage got that NBC spot because of a stunning dearth of top heels, a problem that wouldn't be fixed until '91 with the rise of Slaughter, Undertaker, and later Jake and Flair. (The only other option was Earthquake and it was way too early to give that match away).
ReplyDeleteIt's not like either one of them were wrong.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm sure they figured it was the most marketable match-up for a prime time, mainstream Friday night airing too.
ReplyDeleteare you saying he's a B+ comic at best?
ReplyDeleteOfficially, no. It is not.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I question how close we ever really were to Hogan vs. Zeus at WM. In the 1989 Observers, Dave is absolutely flabbergasted after SummerSlam that they had Hogan pin Zeus. He seemed absolutely sure that Beefcake was there to be a sacrificial lamb to put Zeus over. So maybe it was discussed when Zeus came in, but once he did a job in his first match, I think the idea of a singles PPV match was out the window.
ReplyDeleteSummerSlam did excellent business, by the way, and actually got more buys than WM6 some months later (though at a lower price). So it wasn't a case of Zeus "bombing." He certainly wasn't my aesthetic ideal but he was actually tremendously well-booked for what he was.
No Dibiase DVD would be complete with out the Dusty feud and all the Saphire drama.
ReplyDeleteAlso can't forget his Survivor Series 1990 performance. When it gets down to him and Bret they proceed to have an awesome one on one match.
ReplyDeleteIt's not like he insulted the guy, he just made a joke.
ReplyDeleteEverybody's got a price for the Million $ Man!!!!
ReplyDelete*reads Scott's reply*
ReplyDeleteWAKA WAKA HEY! WAKA WAKA!
Actually, Bret Hart said that Scott was a jam-up guy, so your opinion is overruled.
ReplyDeleteCriminal not including the Survivor Series 89' match up.
ReplyDeleteWarrior said in his doc that he was told in September he was facing Hogan.
ReplyDeleteyou suck at humour
ReplyDeleteI didn't remember Virgil being dressed like a power ranger.
ReplyDeleteUpvote for the Muppets reference.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't the question, it was the person asking. Same one that sends me stuff like "you know this obscure VHS tape I found on Amazon? Will you ever review it?" RD and the Wrestlecrap guys would know of him as well.
ReplyDeleteHe was just throwing that out there to get paid by Cold Stone Creamery.
ReplyDeleteWill Dibiase go into strenuous detail on why he changed his signature move, Dream Street, from a Million Dollar Dream/Legsweep to Million Dollar Dream/Cobra Clutch Slam? I thought he would be the breakout guy of Legacy over Cody actually.
ReplyDeleteCrocky? Crock Lesnar?
ReplyDeleteThey'd hire goons?
ReplyDeleteHired goons?
Yeah I don't think Zeus was ever seriously considered TBH. I'm sure Dave just thought that because it followed the typical Hogan heel of the month formula and he was getting the first class treatment with the big angle. Maybe before NHB bombed, but certainly not after.
ReplyDeleteBesides the finish, I think that's pretty clear by how little we saw Zeus -- he wrestled exactly two matches -- SummerSlam 89 and then the NHB Movie/Match PPV.
It is pretty remarkable how well SS '89 performed though, given the lack of mainstream interest in the movie -- but then again, the Hogan/Savage program was still hot. Although WM 5 certainly didn't do the almost 800k buys or whatever lore has come to be about that show. ~700k is about the theoretical maximum for the show given the PPV audience and the WWFs buyrate numbers, but if you go by Meltzer's numbers (5.9% and a little under 11 million addressable homes) you're looking at more like 630k.
Summer Slam 1990 also did slightly more buys than WrestleMania 6 as well, which along with Summer Slam 1997 might be the only instances of that ever occurring with WrestleMania / Summer Slam combo.
Sounds about right. Vince had to know he was onto something big with Warrior by that summer in particular.
ReplyDeleteIt was the WWF's/Hogan's fault. After WrestleMania 5, they had Savage play second fiddle to Zeus and feud with Jim Duggan. While I loved Macho Man, he didn't have the main event feel to him by early 1990.
ReplyDeleteAs for the lack of other heels, I think the WWF's ability to book legitimate heels was probably hampered by Hogan's insecurities at anyone else getting over. Granted, Zeus was booked strong at first but the dude wasn't a pro wrestler. Quake was only booked strong because Hogan was leaving to go film Mr. Nanny. I feel as though by 1990, Hogan had been booked as such an invincible character, it was actually detrimental to both he and the overall product. Warrior really was the only conceivable guy who could beat him at Mania 6.
The irony is that I think Warrior beating Hogan actually gave Hogan more mileage with the big superhero image. It was the first time really since the Andre feud that you saw him in any sort of vulnerable light, especially since by 1989 the whole Hulk-up comeback formula was in every single match. The EQ angle just solidified that and made him top dog again.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it funny that both of Warrior's biggest wins (vs Savage and vs Hogan) had the unintended effect of boosting the careers of the losers?
It's especially ironic that the Warrior beat Savage in the retirement match and yet Warrior was out of wrestling five months later, while Savage got a bigger angle than Warrior ever did save for the Hogan feud.