I just like that it's a match that stands up to snarky critical thinking. The "why doesn't he just keep doing the big move until the guy stays down" line of thinking. I can't think of another match like it in that regard.
Spot on with the lazy booking. It reminds me of the Rumble this year when Stephanie made this "huge" announcement on Raw that Randy Orton's opponent at the Rumble would end up just being a re-match with Cena.
Listening to pt 2 of the Y2J/HHH podcast... they're reminiscing so hard about the Attitude era days and how awesome Raw used to be. Waiting for the penny to drop on how whack the product is now...
With the Monday Night Wars show on the Network, and the recent build in the Bella Twins storyline, it really does feel like everyone in WWE is looking back on how hot the Attitude Era was and trying to figure out some way to rekindle it now. I mean... Jerry Springer on RAW next week? I'm half expecting to see blood in the main event at Night of Champions now.
I watched No Mercy 2004 recently and went back and read Scott's re-rant on it after. I'd almost died laughing while watching the recap of angle taking down big show with the dart gun, and then almost died again when I read what you wrote about your cousins reaction to that.
There's no way to really tell, and it's almost a matter of opinion. Who knows how many times he swapped the belt overseas, and I don't even count his last WCW one. Having someone hand you the belt only to lose it the same night does not make you a champ in my book.
I think it's a stupid discussion anyway, being a 20 time champ just means you lost the belt 19 times. Ramon and Jarrett get an extra IC title each because they swapped the belts at 2 house shows in 95 (allegedly). Punk holding the title for longer than anyone since Hogan in the 880s is a lot more significant to me, even if it is a fake sport.
Some of the title changes weren't officially recognized by the NWA if I remember correctly. His wikipedia page used to do a decent job discussing those unrecognized reigns. Not sure if its still there or not.
You can't even compare reigns nowadays. We've gone from 4 PPVs to 12 (or more) a year, we had 2 belts in the same company for roughly 10 years, and that's not even getting into whether you consider the ECW, AWA, (no and no, for me) and WWE big gold belt (on the fence) as "world titles". Which makes Punk's reign even more impressive.
Total number of successful defenses should be the #1 metric, but good luck figuring that out.
Yep, just like 400HR was an automatic Hall of Fame baseball career back in the 70's/80's, now it's pretty much a regular thing. Totally different times.
in fairness cena would have had a longer reign than unk if he didnt get injured years back. and 15 title reigns is an incredible accomplishment no if ands or buts.
If Brock is working Hell In A Cell, then I think it's safe to assume he's facing Cena inside the cell. It'd be dumb to have Brock on a PPV that uses the HIAC as the gimmick for the PPV, and not actually have him perform inside the cell itself (for only the second time in his career.) Also, throwing him into a cell match with a brand new opponent would be kind of be dumb, too. I'm calling that the NOC main event ends in a double disqualification, which sets up Lesnar/Cena inside the cell in October to settle things once and for all.
There are a bunch of title changes that are never counted because they were basically done for local crowds. Like Fliar and Harelt Race swapping the belt and the beginning and ending of a New Zealand tour, to build up interest for those shows.
A similar thing happened with Jack verrano in Puerto Rico.
There's also Flair being recognized as the first WCW champion in 1991 while also still being recognized as the NWA champion. That's not counted as two concurrent world title reigns in Flair's 16 but it totally is.
Orton won the belt when Cena was injured, HHH beat him for it in the opener of a ppv, then HHH defended against Umaga, then finally Orton beat him in the main event to win.
"...we can rest easy with our Space Viking Lord on top until Wrestlemania."
ReplyDeleteCult's not gonna be happy that you messed up his nickname for Brock.
Fixed it.
ReplyDeleteI just like that it's a match that stands up to snarky critical thinking. The "why doesn't he just keep doing the big move until the guy stays down" line of thinking. I can't think of another match like it in that regard.
ReplyDeleteSpot on with the lazy booking. It reminds me of the Rumble this year when Stephanie made this "huge" announcement on Raw that Randy Orton's opponent at the Rumble would end up just being a re-match with Cena.
ReplyDeleteOrton and Lesnar should have a feud over "Apex Predator" nickname.
ReplyDeleteOrton will put Lesnar into a chin lock. Lesnar counters with F-5. Lesnar counters everything with F-5.
Here's the question I want to ask everyone:
ReplyDeleteWhat will you do if Cena wins this match??
Has this been posted to the forums yet ? Probably a good way to get some eyes over there.
ReplyDeleteProbably tell everyone I'll never watch the product again and then tune into Raw Monday night as always.
ReplyDeleteDing ding ding...hot dog, we have a wiener!
ReplyDeleteMy head turns to a 45 degree angle and stays there.
ReplyDeleteIf this means Paul Heyman in a pith helmet, I'm in.
ReplyDeleteAre Flair's 16 reigns an estimate? I thought he had 14 wcw/nwa ones and 2xwwe ones.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena wins we complain online!
ReplyDeleteListening to pt 2 of the Y2J/HHH podcast... they're reminiscing so hard about the Attitude era days and how awesome Raw used to be. Waiting for the penny to drop on how whack the product is now...
ReplyDeleteThey switch to Performance Center talk before any of that happens
ReplyDeleteWith the Monday Night Wars show on the Network, and the recent build in the Bella Twins storyline, it really does feel like everyone in WWE is looking back on how hot the Attitude Era was and trying to figure out some way to rekindle it now. I mean... Jerry Springer on RAW next week? I'm half expecting to see blood in the main event at Night of Champions now.
ReplyDeleteI watched No Mercy 2004 recently and went back and read Scott's re-rant on it after. I'd almost died laughing while watching the recap of angle taking down big show with the dart gun, and then almost died again when I read what you wrote about your cousins reaction to that.
ReplyDeleteAngle with what? Your chest? Back? Shoulder?
ReplyDeleteit all depends on what you count. Flair is more accurately a 20 time world champion
ReplyDeleteDamn straight!
ReplyDeleteThere's no way to really tell, and it's almost a matter of opinion. Who knows how many times he swapped the belt overseas, and I don't even count his last WCW one. Having someone hand you the belt only to lose it the same night does not make you a champ in my book.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a stupid discussion anyway, being a 20 time champ just means you lost the belt 19 times. Ramon and Jarrett get an extra IC title each because they swapped the belts at 2 house shows in 95 (allegedly). Punk holding the title for longer than anyone since Hogan in the 880s is a lot more significant to me, even if it is a fake sport.
Unless they were all decent length reigns.
ReplyDelete# of days as champion is the best metric in my book for measuring reigns
Some of the title changes weren't officially recognized by the NWA if I remember correctly. His wikipedia page used to do a decent job discussing those unrecognized reigns. Not sure if its still there or not.
ReplyDeleteIt was amazing and perfect.
ReplyDeleteYou can't even compare reigns nowadays. We've gone from 4 PPVs to 12 (or more) a year, we had 2 belts in the same company for roughly 10 years, and that's not even getting into whether you consider the ECW, AWA, (no and no, for me) and WWE big gold belt (on the fence) as "world titles". Which makes Punk's reign even more impressive.
ReplyDeleteTotal number of successful defenses should be the #1 metric, but good luck figuring that out.
If that happened in 95 it should be in the observers from that year.
ReplyDeleteYep, just like 400HR was an automatic Hall of Fame baseball career back in the 70's/80's, now it's pretty much a regular thing. Totally different times.
ReplyDeleteThat awesome moment when a question you asked Scott doesn't make it to the blog, but makes it to that website instead! XD
ReplyDeleteThanks, Scott. For resolving my greatest worry.
So what are the chances a Jesse Baker email gets answered on the Sporting News column?
ReplyDeleteI think it's safe to assume all wrestling related records are estimates.
ReplyDeleteOr a German suplex.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the situation with Triple H/Orton and one of them being handed the belt just to trade it back the same night?
ReplyDeleteit would make scott a great deal of money for that article lol.
ReplyDeletein fairness cena would have had a longer reign than unk if he didnt get injured years back. and 15 title reigns is an incredible accomplishment no if ands or buts.
ReplyDeleteIf Brock is working Hell In A Cell, then I think it's safe to assume he's facing Cena inside the cell. It'd be dumb to have Brock on a PPV that uses the HIAC as the gimmick for the PPV, and not actually have him perform inside the cell itself (for only the second time in his career.) Also, throwing him into a cell match with a brand new opponent would be kind of be dumb, too. I'm calling that the NOC main event ends in a double disqualification, which sets up Lesnar/Cena inside the cell in October to settle things once and for all.
ReplyDeleteBitch and joke about it online then go back to wrestling as usual.
ReplyDeleteThere are a bunch of title changes that are never counted because they were basically done for local crowds. Like Fliar and Harelt Race swapping the belt and the beginning and ending of a New Zealand tour, to build up interest for those shows.
ReplyDeleteA similar thing happened with Jack verrano in Puerto Rico.
There's also Flair being recognized as the first WCW champion in 1991 while also still being recognized as the NWA champion.
That's not counted as two concurrent world title reigns in Flair's 16 but it totally is.
Orton won the belt when Cena was injured, HHH beat him for it in the opener of a ppv, then HHH defended against Umaga, then finally Orton beat him in the main event to win.
ReplyDelete