Hi Scott,
I watched a Nash interview a while back where he claims HBK tried to sabotage him at WMXI by intentionally running a fast paced match in order to blow him up and make himself look good in the process.
I rewatched the match and basically, yeah, that seems to be what happened. HBK was basically Summerslam '05 it the whole way, basically running at the speed of light and doing every "look at me" bump he could think of. Shawn was obviously wrestling to Diesel's weaknesses and making himself the star.
Not only that, but the match itself seemed laid out to make HBK seem like a total world beater, getting a visual pin on Nash and, never having Sid interfere (Except once or twice which backfire and, thus make HBK look even stronger since he definitely would have won had Sid not been there.)
What was the thinking here? Did Shawn purposely sabotage the match to get over at Diesel's expense? If so, how could he have gotten away with it when Vince himself was watching the match from commentary (Not to mention Lawler, who definitely would've seen what Shawn was doing).
Was the match actually booked to benefit HBK? If so, WTF? Why sabotage your top star in your biggest event when you plan on making him the next Hogan? Why not lay out the match to have constant Sid interference and have Shawn play Chicken heel like this match seemed tailor-made for him to play? Hell, it would've flowed perfectly into the Sid-Nash feud they were going into anyway?
I'm no Nash fan but, geez, this really seemed like a hack job.
Yeah, we discussed this a lot in the post-WM 11 RAW threads, and Shawn absolutely backstabbed him in that one, bigtime. Shawn was operating on such a high level as a worker that he was able to make it look like he was putting Diesel over, when in fact he was putting himself over. It was the same kind of deal in the original ladder match with Ramon, but Razor was a smart enough worker to make sure he didn't get overshadowed like Diesel did.
That being said, it was all Shawn. Vince absolutely wanted Diesel to be the next Hogan, but I bet there was a big part of him that respected Shawn for going out and grabbing his own brass ring. I think Nash has said in shoot interviews that he eventually figured out what happened and doesn't hold a grudge against Shawn for doing it. Shawn saw his shot and took it, and you have to respect that a little.
Bret pretty much says the same thing in his book. Probably one of the reasons why Nash always praises Bret is because of how Bret went out of his way to make him look good.
ReplyDeleteAlso, this match and the face turn afterwards is what turned me into a super mark for Shawn.
It was HBK's destiny to become one of the greatest of all time. He couldn't be stopped and you better believe that he was going to take full advantage of his first WM main event. Especially just one year removed from the ladder match.
ReplyDeleteI think Vince would notice who looked good and who looked shitty in the main event of his biggest show of the year.
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way: if Shawn could put Diesel over and still look like a world class athlete, then Shawn, as was said, had to be on some next level shit (take that however you want).
If Diesel, in the biggest match of his career, couldn't stop Shawn from doing that, Diesel couldn't have been as good as Vince thought he was.
Bret vs. Nash at Survivor Series, is, was and always will be better than any match Nash had against Shawn.
ReplyDeleteGood Friends, Better Enemies dawg.
ReplyDeleteI know they were friends in real life, but kudos to Kev for not taking it personal or letting it affect their friendship. Dude's supposed to be one of your best buds and he tries to blow you up on the biggest show of the year and you don't make a thing of it? That's something. I know I wouldn't have been thrilled and probably wouldn't have kept it to myself if I were in Nash's position.
ReplyDeleteAlso one thing the emailer forgot to mention: Shawn also totally fucked up the powerbomb spot: 1) because he sandbags him and 2) because Nash was so blown up because of the pace of the match that he couldn't power through it.
ReplyDeleteThen Shawn fucked up Sid's powerbombs the very next night on RAW.
That's faulty logic. I remember a Bill Watts interview where back in Mid South, JYD was wrestling some jobber on TV and the jobber tried to blow up JYD and get himself over. It worked because Dog wasn't a great athlete and wound up not looking great coming out of it. Watts flipped a shit at the kid and made sure he wasn't back in Mid South.
ReplyDeleteGranted, JYD was a huge draw where as Nash wasn't, but they were still both top guys.
I know that's the general consensus among the IWC, but I prefer the Bret matches just because Bret wrestled the match like it was real and used sound strategy in order to beat Diesel whereas Shawn just gets his ass kicked for 20 minutes and just superkicks him for the win.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like Shawn is trying to take the power bomb like a razors edge
ReplyDeleteEh I don't really care if the match seems realer or not(as long as they don't go too out of the realm of reality) Love the SS match but Shawn-Diesel is just better and more fun to watch.
ReplyDeleteYup. The world was not ready for the sort of heel shit Nash did in that match.
ReplyDeleteI like watching Shawn get his ass kicked for 20 minutes. He's spectacularly good at it.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Shawn fuck himself over to the point where they had no choice but to turn him face, something that he hated at the time?
ReplyDeleteIt's only faulty logic if it's not the kind your boss employs. Shawn knew how it would look to Vince. If he didn't, he wouldn't have done it.
ReplyDeleteGood as John Cena?
ReplyDeleteOf course Nash didn't care. All Nash ever cared about was the money. He's not a Bret Hart type who takes the business way too seriously.
ReplyDeleteMaybe by that time Nash simply didn't want to be the WWF's top guy anyhow, so he was all "Fuck it, if my close buddy wants it he can have it".
ReplyDeleteAs well he should. Guy probably had to spend five grand a night on shampoo.
ReplyDeleteBut he could've made even more money if Shawn made him look good and didn't sabotage him.
ReplyDeleteHis match with Bret at survivor series, the one with HBK at Good friends, better enemies, and the mania match with Taker are easily his three best matches ever.
ReplyDeleteBut would he want the money with having the pressure of being the top guy in the WWF which meant putting on a fake smile and doing shows you didn't want to do?
ReplyDeleteI'm saying I think Nash LOATHED the babyface Deisel shtick and couldn't wait to get away from it.
I'm always curious how some of the old timers don't lose it laughing when guys are pulling shit like this. Lawler was a total pro not losing it there.
ReplyDeleteI think he loathed it as well, but Nash will smile for a big paycheck.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if any of this matters from a financial standpoint. Both Diesel and Shawn didn't really draw as champions.
ReplyDeleteYeah, a different guy might have potatoed Shawn, grabbed a rest hold, and told him, "Cut that shit out before you get another one."
ReplyDeleteWell he's about 13 World titles short of Cena, but he's pretty good.
ReplyDeleteShawn went up against the hottest angle of all time. Can't really blame that on him.
ReplyDeleteHe'll make a cell phone call for money.
ReplyDeleteThere's two schools of thought about Shawn's drawing power.
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't a draw and therefore ratings sucked
Or
He was a much smaller draw then the NO but was literally THE ONLY THING keeping WWE afloat.
I'd like to think it's the second one but I wasn't there and both sides will revise history to make their side look good.
That finish made me physically ill.
ReplyDeleteMeh, I don't know. I think Diesel still had some juice at that point. It wasn't until he was with slugs like Mabel and Sid and Tatanka where people wanted a mercy killing to the reign.
ReplyDeleteHogan and company left the WWE a scorched earth. Bret, Shawn, Taker, and Nash were the reasons there was a company left for Austin to reach the heights that he did.
ReplyDeleteGood Friends, Better Enemies was a great "Holy Shit!" brawl that was ahead of its time. Bret vs. Diesel at Survivor Series was a storytelling masterpiece and an amazing athletic "contest" that made both men seem like badasses.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's the thing.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to the WWE if Shawn had left in 96
Don't forget hitting Diesel with a prosthetic leg.
ReplyDeleteThe opening of that match might be my favorite of any match ever.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, Bret and Diesel look at each, nod, then go back to the turnbuckles and undo them.
Fucking badass.
I meant faulty logic on Vince's part if he was more swayed by seeing Diesel as the guy who let himself get blown up instead of being disappointed in Michaels for only being concerned with getting himself over, at the expense of his opponent in the WWF Title match at WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's possible that he was THE ONLY THING keeping the company afloat when Bret was a proven bigger draw. 'Taker was probably a better draw too, though I'm not sure about that one.
ReplyDeleteSee...that's the issue.
ReplyDeleteIt's a self perpetuating argument because you could argue Brett had MUCH less steep competition.
They were both on top for roughly the same period and Bret apparently drew significantly better.
ReplyDeleteBret holds the fort until Austin is ready.
ReplyDelete