You know, here's the big thing with that match for me - they both really sold it like they WANTED that title. They killed each other not because there was hatred, or some stupid feud, whatever - they both just wanted the damn belt. Lost storytelling these days.
I knew Sasha Banks had talent but man she's coming along way faster than anyone could have expected. Not to take away anything from Becky Lynch. She's definitely arrived. This is the best crop of women wrestlers ever outside of Japan.
Loved the show, and particularly LOVED how they presented the attack on Itami: the aftermath being caught by a fan with a cellphone, and not just some magically appearing camera crew that obliterates the fourth wall. That's some JCP-era NWA shit, and I love Hunter for it.
It's why I love the booking of Owens, he keeps getting these lucky (and dominant) wins, and you know that as soon as the babyface just doesn't mess up Kevin is d-e-a-d.
The babyfaces aren't "worse" than him but he's not a coward either, he just exploits his advantages very well.
A tiny bit botchy, and I felt that the finish came on a lttle too quick, outta nowhere. But for me, and I try not to be a star ratings guy, ****1/2. The only truly worthwhile match on the card. Great, great work in that one.
I was bummed it wasn't Cena as well. I'm not interested nor have I ever been interested in Joe. He's in better shape than I've ever seen him but thats not saying much.
I like the crash tv type of wrestling show. EVERYONE gets mic time, everyone has a character and by character I don't mean "he's a good wrestler". The segments were all short, there was a sense of unpredictability. I've never been a fan of NWA 1983 treat wrestling like a sport stuff. I've been a fan of the flash, the gimmicks, the crazyness, the chaos and thats what 98 RAW brought me.
like I said earlier I'm not a fan of "treating it like a sport" I mean don't get me wrong thats fine but not "two guys wrestle for the title because they're wrestlers and thats what wrestlers do". If I wanted that I'd watch UFC or Showtime Boxing. I want characters, chaos, unpredictability, backstage segments, in ring interviews, I want Vince Russo circa 98. Everybody has a character beyond (he's a wrestler) and everybody is always doing something.
Do you like wrestling though meaning I guess do you want the shows to be more about the gimmicks and people, and the PPV to be about the wrestling if that makes sense?
I really want Baron Corbin to improve the way people like Breeze and Banks improved. Dunno why, I just like the vibe I get off of him, I want him to be good.
I think 1998 RAW was the best booking for my tastes ever. The TV shows had short matches with finishes that advance storylines, there were a lot of short backstage segments with mid card guys giving them mic time to not only improve but get their character over as well as the longer segments between guys like McMahon, Rock, Austin, HHH (maybe not as much in 98) that could actualy go out there and hold your attention for a while. So yeah basically the shows are there for storyline purposes only short matches with in conclusive finishes to set up pay per views where they wrestled. So yeah what you said is exactly right thats what I prefer. Gimmicky, character driven, lots of talking on the television shows and then the wrestling on the pay per views to resolve the issues.
So, wait, is Samoa Joe still Samoa Joe? Are they going to do a thing like KENTA when he was like "Yeah, I'm KENTA, but I think I'm gonna be Hideo Itami now, cause reasons, you know why" and have him just say he's someone else now?
We do get far too many long matches on TV nowadays, I agree with you on that. That's why the PPVs are mostly stagnant because you're seeing matches you already got to see on free TV.
They really should bring back the 98 formula of hyping marquee matches but never actually delivering on them because you do need them to sell PPVs (or in this case the Network) after all.
So how on earth do you navigate Meltzer's site? It's just ads and a web layout designed by an out of touch person who hasn't used the internet passed 2000.
411 is horrible for a more fucked up reason. Dare go on there on an iPhone and you get a vicious loop of taking you to the App Store to download some bullshit.
I get it, wrestling websites need the ad revenue to "survive" but intrusive aggressive shit just makes me never visit your site.
Meltzer reports a on a lot of shit that just isn't true. He does what ever he can to get those page views if guess so I have no idea which news is news and which is just lies.
I agree with you a million percent. Adam Rose has the type of character that could always be getting into something stupid backstage. Zack Ryder the same way. David Otunga's lawyer gimmick is great and perfect for quick 2 minute backstage segments. Just a few minutes of air time a week to talk could get all of these guys over huge. Instead we never hear from 90 percent of the roster yeah I agree.
I never thought he was close to be the best in the world. Nobody here will agree but Joe is the Triple H of the indies. He's the guy that works with the best in the world. Daniels, Styles, etc. Even during the height of his 500 day ROH title reign I could name ten indy guys I enjoyed more.
This had THEDEMONFINN fighting an evil male model in the first match.
The "wrestling" main-event was between the vicious blinged-out queen of NXT fighting a Steampunk!Cosplaying Irish world traveler.
A human penis/rhinoceros fought a werewolf biker.
A tag-match that ended due to the interference of a glitter-obsessed gymnast and consisted of two ambiguously gay EDM-cowboys fighting a weird blend of Tri-State stereotypes.
A giant brawl for a main-event ending with the debut of Samoa Joe and a schmozz ending with refs getting punched and the GM getting slapped around.
You're just being a contrary asshole. NXT has plenty of the "character" stuff you're looking for. It just also has logical booking and great wrestling.
And if you're really into "characters", watch Lucha Underground.
I love Lucha Underground its my favorite show on television wrestling wise. I'm not being a contrary asshole. Lucha Underground is a 100x better than NXT its not even close. Hell TNA has been better lately than NXT as far as characters and storylines. I really don't get why I'm an asshole and why you're so worked up that I prefer 1998 Vince Russo RAW and Lucha Underground to "wrestling is a sport bah gawd". Are you that delusional to believe that no one could possibly enjoy some other form of entertainment within this medium of pro wrestling than you?
I actually kind of agree about Joe. Even during his ROH Title reign I wasn't crazy about him. The matches were usually decent-good(with a few great ones) but even in that time frame in ROH I enjoy several people's work more than Joe.
Sasha Banks is just fantastic. She has all the in-between stuff down pat, whereas most women on the main roster struggle to execute even their own signature moves. The match wasn't flawless, mostly because of Lynch (who, if anything, tries too hard), but there was some innovative arm work in there and it was smartly structure. Easily ****+
Very good commentary throughout; Graves comparing Zayn to Paquiao was spot on.
From Owens' debut to tonight, the feud with Zayn has been perfectly booked. I love that their matches have been as much, if not more, about the story as the work rate. The video packages, promos, and even the way their Raw appearances have been brought into the story have been tremendous.
The Owens vs. Zayn match/angle reminded me in the best way of early 90s WCW, with Owens in the Vader role. And then SAMOA M'Fing JOE! Genuinely couldn't stop smiling when he walked in. So, so cool.
I'm just happy that he gets to keep his name. First time in a LONG time. Since Punk really. Now I know that it would make 0% logic to change it, but I still gave Vince a 50% chance to do it anyway.
"During the match, the commentators made a statement about Sasha calling herself better than the "legendary" Fabulous Moolah, as if this was some kind of blasphemous heel statement. I think it's clear that Sasha is by far a better worker than Moolah ever was, even at this stage of her career. OH YEAH, I SAID IT."
Was Moolah ever actually thought of as a good worker? I know that the style of wrestling has changed a lot since her day but I can't think of one even halfway decent match I've seen her in.
HHH ... there are times I can't stand him, especially on television. Then I remind myself that he's the reason Devitt, Zayn, Owens, KENTA, and now Samoa Joe are in the WWE.
So if I'm understanding the tag title situation correctly, we have a face team accompanied by a heel woman vs. a heel teem accompanied by a face woman? Although the fans have softened to Carmilla a bit, booing Bliss just seems wrong somehow.
As I recall, going by the standards by which women's wrestling was judged in Moolah's heyday, she was pretty revered, although at the time, "worker" was kind of an all-encompassing term and not like it is today, where someone like Chris Benoit (sorry, first example that came to mind) was a great worker but not a great promo and an all-around talented but not legendary performer. Or CM Punk, who was a great storyteller and a reliable promo, but a sloppy and unrefined worker.
Just finished watching, that was fucking awesome yet again. Sasha working the arm nearly brought a tear to my eye, now excuse me while I go buy her entrance theme.
HHH has more or less stated that he wants to get an NXT title match on a WWE PPV, but I think he's slow-playing it so as not to stick, say, Owens/Balor in a death slot between, say, Lesnar/Rollins and Cena/Whoever.
Also, I think Zayn/Owens is over now. My guess is Zayn takes more time off (word going around last night was that he may need surgery) and then goes to the main roster. I mean, he's had two title matches with Owens and Owens thoroughly murked him both times. Dude has a barely better batting average against Owens than Alex Riley. He has no claim to another shot at him.
Which is heartbreaking for anyone who watched Zayn claw his way to the belt for a year and then lose it so quickly, but in real life, that happens. Sometimes the bully always wins. The bully is just bigger, stronger and meaner than the good guy and they always win. Sucks, but it's "real."
Corey Graves was a pretty shit worker, but he's outstanding as a commentator and I really hope his look doesn't preclude him from a long and prosperous role behind the table.
I don't think he'll be keeping it. They introduced Itami as KENTA as well before changing it. I vaguely remember someone reporting they were making an effort not to erase the past or pretend their indie careers never happened (ie Zayn/Owens playing off their indie history together).
Far better this definitive booking than the main roster's 50/50. That's what the NXT creative team get; that stories have ups and downs, they're shapes not straight lines.
This t-shirt says different: http://shop.wwe.com/Samoa-Joe-%22Submission-Specialist%22-Authentic-T-Shirt/W09731,default,pd.html?dwvar_W09731_color=black&start=1&q=samoa%20joe
I'm well aware of the t-shirt, he'll probably keep the name for a little longer than KENTA did because it's worth more to the North American audience. But I think it'll change eventually.
Seconded, he has his opinions, he mentions and explains them, and then moves on. Doesn't dissolve into parroting a key heel phrase over and over, and doesn't come across as intentionally contrarian ala JBL.
I agree with everything but one thing you said, and I am pretty annoyed by Punk currently, but to say he's just a "reliable promo" is patently absurd. I agree that he could be sloppy in the ring -- no doubt. But a "reliable promo"? No - top 10 promo all day.
Ironically Zayn can be saved or moved on easier by losing definitively and use that as part of his character arc versus the 50/50 shit where he isn't better or worse than Owens. Done right, he can be even more of a plucky underdog babyface.
Joe has a bigger name in the States than Steen, KENTA or any of those other guys. It would probably be a lot harder to get away with changing his name.
Exactly, it says more about him that he'd want to fight the guy who badly injured him than if he'd won the first match by fluke (looking at you Cena/Lesnar 2012).
You and I may see it that way, but remember, they fired JR multiple times for being "too Southern," so rationality has no place in this discussion from a realistic standpoint.
That's exactly how Zayn losing is supposed to feel. Heartbreaking. Zayn clawed and clawed to overcome every obstacle and he finally does and wins the NXT title only to come upon the biggest, baddest obstacle in the land and gets demolished. It's set up for Zayn to either move up to the main roster and Owens is built like a monster for someone else, or Zayn completes his redemption and finally beats Owens. Either is awesome.
I'd like to take credit for the 'fan with phone filming an attack' idea. Despite the fact that I suggested it for Zayn, and they probably had the idea themselves.
Yep. I acknowledge that, absolutely. Lots of people love One Direction, too. Justin Bieber has/had a HUGE following. Nickelback has millions of fans. I'm perfectly OK with not being a fan of some things that are massively popular.
So after this, are there any other surprise debuts left that can pop a crowd? I'm not sure if there are any other big indy names out there on the level of Samoa Joe.
Also, would the crowd have popped if this was a WWE PPV or a non-post Wrestlemania smark crowd?
Has TNA considered marketing Impact to dogs? I know they don't have money to spend, but nobody spends money to watch or attend TNA events anyway. They're home all the time so they won't miss Impact, the ones that attend the shows are usually pretty attentive to what's going on in front of them and easily excited.
Nope, not my point at all. My point was that "number of fans" and "quality" are completely unrelated, something you seem to agree with.
So I'm not sure why you came in, guns blazing, acting like anything that's a matter of your personal opinion could be a matter of fact or attempting to use the fact that a ton of people want to lap his ballsweat is proof that your opinion is the right one.
"The deal to bring Joe into NXT was headed up by Triple H. Joe will continue to work existing and future independent dates, but NXT will have top priority so in theory he could be pulled from an event if Triple H calls. Joe has also come to terms with the company to market Samoa Joe merchandise. They are already selling an official Samoa Joe shirt on WWE.com. The feeling is that if things work out for both parties that the deal could evolve into a full-fledged WWE deal."
So Triple H is actually letting these guys do whatever they want in the interim. That's damn sure a new way for WWE to be doing business.
I think Samoa Joe is a special case, which is why he was able to negotiate a sweetheart deal. I can't imagine many other indie talents that would be offered the same terms.
I didn't say it was a matter of fact in the least. I don't want to lap his "ballsweat". I said I was pretty annoyed with him for one thing. It was my OPINION that he was a great promo. YOU said "I recognize I'm in the minority". I said that's true. Yes, that doesn't mean that my opinion is any more valid....all it means is that the majority of people like his promos more than you.....which was YOUR point.
So then I agreed with you that you were in the minority, and for some reason this annoyed you and we started this horse crap.
I'm wondering if Balor isn't going to be a one-and-done contender. He can put KO over strong to build to a KO/Joe feud, and move up to the main roster so JBL can shit all over him because 'Murica.
Yes, even by the NXT crowd. Put a picture of one up and they couldn't tell. Oh they'd still probably mark out because some consider themselves the next generation of ROH-bots, but they wouldn't know.
That's a really good idea. I dug him trying out for Tough Enough. Honestly, that seems like exactly the kind of thing Vince is talking about with his brass ring stuff if he were, you know, actually honest about that.
Great intro, not much going on in the ring. Hey, it worked for the New Age Outlaws! 6 time tag champs. One in creative, one as a trainer. Both still employed. If I were Enzo and Cass, watch some more Outlaws tape.
Looks like they've lightened up on free speech. I like that they want to "protect" members. Eeesh. Trigger warnings are bad enough on serious subjects, but on wrestling sites?
"I really have to apologize for my outburst earlier. It's been a hectic day overall and the drama tonight pushed me over the edge.
In any case, we don't want you guys to feel that you can't discuss certain things here and as much as we want to protect you from certain things, we realize that it's best if we gave you the freedom to discuss what you'd like as long as you are civil and respectful of others here.
So carry on...if you'd like to talk about the Meltzer "report", feel free to do so and I recommend that you have fun with it. Please don't take anything he reports seriously and feel free to laugh at him and make fun of him."
Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I like it. It gives Zack a reason to work with the entire roster, too. He can start at the bottom and say he's going to annihilate everyone.
The only reason I enjoy the TNA cancellation stuff is because of how offended the TNA nutjobs get about it, and their vendetta against Meltzer or anyone who says anything negative about it.
So really, it's just the entertainment value of the whole thing.
I'm like that with Blue Jay fans. I enjoyed every second of their 2013 World Series turning into a last place finish. But eventually it just gets sad and you pity them.
I personally had a hard time getting into it. It felt more like a solid ***.
ReplyDelete"I QUIT Monteeeeeee!"
ReplyDeleteWWE already has a Samoa Joe shirt up on the shop, so he may just be keeping his name.
ReplyDeleteApparently the deal is done after all. How about that.
ReplyDeleteI thought so.
ReplyDeleteWhere's the discussion about tna being cancelled
ReplyDeleteDunno. Sure looked like ***** to my eyes.
ReplyDeleteI prefer 1998 RAW over this personally.
ReplyDeleteYou know, here's the big thing with that match for me - they both really sold it like they WANTED that title. They killed each other not because there was hatred, or some stupid feud, whatever - they both just wanted the damn belt. Lost storytelling these days.
ReplyDeleteIt's "reportedly". And that's reported by Dave Meltzer, who has been claiming that TNA has been canceled since 2002.
ReplyDeleteI knew Sasha Banks had talent but man she's coming along way faster than anyone could have expected. Not to take away anything from Becky Lynch. She's definitely arrived. This is the best crop of women wrestlers ever outside of Japan.
ReplyDeleteLoved the show, and particularly LOVED how they presented the attack on Itami: the aftermath being caught by a fan with a cellphone, and not just some magically appearing camera crew that obliterates the fourth wall. That's some JCP-era NWA shit, and I love Hunter for it.
ReplyDeletetnamecca.com
ReplyDeleteEva Marie ... who gives a shit? Seriously. What in the world did they do that for?
ReplyDeleteEva Marie or TNA....which is less relevant?
ReplyDeleteIt's why I love the booking of Owens, he keeps getting these lucky (and dominant) wins, and you know that as soon as the babyface just doesn't mess up Kevin is d-e-a-d.
ReplyDeleteThe babyfaces aren't "worse" than him but he's not a coward either, he just exploits his advantages very well.
It's the lipstick.
ReplyDeleteWHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
ReplyDeleteI've been a big Becky fan for a while, and I'm glad to see others are joining the Lynch Mob!
ReplyDeleteHrm...okay we need a better name for her fandom.
A tiny bit botchy, and I felt that the finish came on a lttle too quick, outta nowhere. But for me, and I try not to be a star ratings guy, ****1/2. The only truly worthwhile match on the card. Great, great work in that one.
ReplyDeleteNow you've got me - why? I'm not challenging you here, I'm legitimately curious as to what you would've preferred.
ReplyDeleteThe Beckfast Club?
ReplyDeleteThe OMG Beckys?
ReplyDeleteI'm probably the only person who will say this, but here goes.
ReplyDeleteI'm disappointed that it wasn't Cena coming out instead of Joe.
Speaking of which....holy shit is he ripped......by somoan terms
Holy shit. That's the perfect comparison.
ReplyDeleteI was bummed it wasn't Cena as well. I'm not interested nor have I ever been interested in Joe. He's in better shape than I've ever seen him but thats not saying much.
ReplyDeleteI was a bit underwhelmed myself. I do give the women's match the nod for match of the night though.
ReplyDeleteShit if he was in the audience he'd have spotted Big Cass and put him on the main roster yesterday. Cause big.
ReplyDeleteI like the crash tv type of wrestling show. EVERYONE gets mic time, everyone has a character and by character I don't mean "he's a good wrestler". The segments were all short, there was a sense of unpredictability. I've never been a fan of NWA 1983 treat wrestling like a sport stuff. I've been a fan of the flash, the gimmicks, the crazyness, the chaos and thats what 98 RAW brought me.
ReplyDeletelike I said earlier I'm not a fan of "treating it like a sport" I mean don't get me wrong thats fine but not "two guys wrestle for the title because they're wrestlers and thats what wrestlers do". If I wanted that I'd watch UFC or Showtime Boxing. I want characters, chaos, unpredictability, backstage segments, in ring interviews, I want Vince Russo circa 98. Everybody has a character beyond (he's a wrestler) and everybody is always doing something.
ReplyDeleteDo you like wrestling though meaning I guess do you want the shows to be more about the gimmicks and people, and the PPV to be about the wrestling if that makes sense?
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the blog of doom Vince Russo! ;)
ReplyDeleteLike how they were allegedly cancelled by Spike last year...oh wait, that really did happen.
ReplyDeleteI really want Baron Corbin to improve the way people like Breeze and Banks improved. Dunno why, I just like the vibe I get off of him, I want him to be good.
ReplyDeleteSame.
ReplyDeleteI think 1998 RAW was the best booking for my tastes ever. The TV shows had short matches with finishes that advance storylines, there were a lot of short backstage segments with mid card guys giving them mic time to not only improve but get their character over as well as the longer segments between guys like McMahon, Rock, Austin, HHH (maybe not as much in 98) that could actualy go out there and hold your attention for a while. So yeah basically the shows are there for storyline purposes only short matches with in conclusive finishes to set up pay per views where they wrestled. So yeah what you said is exactly right thats what I prefer. Gimmicky, character driven, lots of talking on the television shows and then the wrestling on the pay per views to resolve the issues.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of8kY_IbYq4
ReplyDeleteBut seriously I'm a huge fan as well.
ReplyDeleteI gotcha. Makes sense. I like it best when it's a mix of both myself, but I see where you are coming from.
ReplyDeleteWell who in their right mind could possibly hate Scott Steiner?
ReplyDeleteSo, wait, is Samoa Joe still Samoa Joe? Are they going to do a thing like KENTA when he was like "Yeah, I'm KENTA, but I think I'm gonna be Hideo Itami now, cause reasons, you know why" and have him just say he's someone else now?
ReplyDeleteWe do get far too many long matches on TV nowadays, I agree with you on that. That's why the PPVs are mostly stagnant because you're seeing matches you already got to see on free TV.
ReplyDeleteThey really should bring back the 98 formula of hyping marquee matches but never actually delivering on them because you do need them to sell PPVs (or in this case the Network) after all.
Bring back jobber squashes.
ReplyDeleteProgress in the world has been made. We minimally agree on something next stop peace in the middle east!
ReplyDelete1998 RAW was also known 20 years earlier as Saturday morning Memphis wrestling, which also proves that Vince Russo did not invent Crash TV.
ReplyDelete"But USA would never go for that, they want stars!"
ReplyDeleteNevermind that they've shoved Kane down our throats for the past six months and he's the exact opposite of a star.
They'll both end up on MAV TV by next year so it's a tie.
ReplyDeleteLynch Pins?
ReplyDeleteIt's S'more Joe! He's fat because he can't resist those tasty treats!
ReplyDeleteBecause...Cena needs to go down to developmental?
ReplyDeleteShe's Not Claire!
ReplyDeleteSo how on earth do you navigate Meltzer's site? It's just ads and a web layout designed by an out of touch person who hasn't used the internet passed 2000.
ReplyDelete411 is horrible for a more fucked up reason. Dare go on there on an iPhone and you get a vicious loop of taking you to the App Store to download some bullshit.
I get it, wrestling websites need the ad revenue to "survive" but intrusive aggressive shit just makes me never visit your site.
Manda and the Marbles were right, the lipstick changes everything.
ReplyDeleteMeltzer reports a on a lot of shit that just isn't true. He does what ever he can to get those page views if guess so I have no idea which news is news and which is just lies.
ReplyDeletePretty sure they wouldn't go to the trouble of making and selling new Samoa Joe t-shirts on the WWEShop site if they were going to change his name.
ReplyDeleteif you keep saying the exact same thing over and over again for thirteen years, the odds are that one of those times it could actually be true.
ReplyDeleteSupposedly WWE has big plans for her. Whenever she finishes training with Bryan Kendrick.
ReplyDeleteMeltzer having ads on his site is so nonsensical since it requires a subscription to even access it.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine HBO and Netflix loading up their sites with suspicious ads? Didn't think so.
Vince doesn't usually watch NXT. I think their show on Wrestlemania weekend was his biggest exposure to it so far.
ReplyDeleteHe only watches something from NXT if Triple H finds it intriguing enough to show him. Or if they're looking for someone new to call up.
Hey, it worked for WCW. Look at the thousands of times their demise was predicted from 1989-2001, eventually it came true.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you a million percent. Adam Rose has the type of character that could always be getting into something stupid backstage. Zack Ryder the same way. David Otunga's lawyer gimmick is great and perfect for quick 2 minute backstage segments. Just a few minutes of air time a week to talk could get all of these guys over huge. Instead we never hear from 90 percent of the roster yeah I agree.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty good.
ReplyDeleteBeing one of the best wrestlers in the world doesn't do it for you.
ReplyDeleteI can understand thinking Joe is passed his prime but the guy was king in the mid 2000's
Sasha Banks is legitimately one of the best wrestlers in the world right now
ReplyDeleteI never thought he was close to be the best in the world. Nobody here will agree but Joe is the Triple H of the indies. He's the guy that works with the best in the world. Daniels, Styles, etc. Even during the height of his 500 day ROH title reign I could name ten indy guys I enjoyed more.
ReplyDeleteThis had THEDEMONFINN fighting an evil male model in the first match.
ReplyDeleteThe "wrestling" main-event was between the vicious blinged-out queen of NXT fighting a Steampunk!Cosplaying Irish world traveler.
A human penis/rhinoceros fought a werewolf biker.
A tag-match that ended due to the interference of a glitter-obsessed gymnast and consisted of two ambiguously gay EDM-cowboys fighting a weird blend of Tri-State stereotypes.
A giant brawl for a main-event ending with the debut of Samoa Joe and a schmozz ending with refs getting punched and the GM getting slapped around.
You're just being a contrary asshole. NXT has plenty of the "character" stuff you're looking for. It just also has logical booking and great wrestling.
And if you're really into "characters", watch Lucha Underground.
Little too long.
ReplyDeleteDo it.
ReplyDeleteThat could be a name of a signature move.
ReplyDeleteOMGBeckys?
ReplyDeleteHe probably just has shit taste. wrestling stories are awful compared to what you'd get from any other kind of tv.
ReplyDeleteIf you aren't here for the wrestling I just assume you have trash taste
That is an...unique reference.
ReplyDeleteDon't get it, sorry.
ReplyDeleteI love Lucha Underground its my favorite show on television wrestling wise. I'm not being a contrary asshole. Lucha Underground is a 100x better than NXT its not even close. Hell TNA has been better lately than NXT as far as characters and storylines. I really don't get why I'm an asshole and why you're so worked up that I prefer 1998 Vince Russo RAW and Lucha Underground to "wrestling is a sport bah gawd". Are you that delusional to believe that no one could possibly enjoy some other form of entertainment within this medium of pro wrestling than you?
ReplyDeleteThat horsey looking bitch from TNA, I guess. Either that , or the country singer.
ReplyDeleteOh man, in six months we get to see JOOOEMUNGA on Raw.
ReplyDeleteOwens is now in feuds with Zayn, Cena, Joe, and they're making it seem like he hurt Hideo. The guy is all over the map. Awesome.
ReplyDeleteAlso---the Boss is just fantastic.
Yeah, Hunter's stock is rising by the day with his NXT work. It actually makes me forgive him a bit for the insipid 2002-2004 run of his.
ReplyDeleteI actually kind of agree about Joe. Even during his ROH Title reign I wasn't crazy about him. The matches were usually decent-good(with a few great ones) but even in that time frame in ROH I enjoy several people's work more than Joe.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Springsteen is fantastic.
ReplyDeleteI'd say "The Boss #2", but that just sounds like a really impressive poop.
ReplyDeleteSasha Banks is just fantastic. She has all the in-between stuff down pat, whereas most women on the main roster struggle to execute even their own signature moves. The match wasn't flawless, mostly because of Lynch (who, if anything, tries too hard), but there was some innovative arm work in there and it was smartly structure. Easily ****+
ReplyDeleteVery good commentary throughout; Graves comparing Zayn to Paquiao was spot on.
From Owens' debut to tonight, the feud with Zayn has been perfectly booked. I love that their matches have been as much, if not more, about the story as the work rate. The video packages, promos, and even the way their Raw appearances have been brought into the story have been tremendous.
The Owens vs. Zayn match/angle reminded me in the best way of early 90s WCW, with Owens in the Vader role. And then SAMOA M'Fing JOE! Genuinely couldn't stop smiling when he walked in. So, so cool.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large_lightbox/public/photo/image/2015/05/06_NXT_04232015ej_0362-3840243498_0.jpg
ReplyDeleteThe Four Horsewomen of NXT.
Now there's an NXT invasion angle I'd be on board with.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing I can say about this show that hasn't already been said. Incredible stuff yet again.
ReplyDeleteBanks glaring at the ref when he tried to raise her injured arm after the match.
ReplyDeleteSamoa Joe is on wwe.com's from page - as Samoa Joe. Gotta keep pinching myself.
ReplyDeleteOwens borderline emotionally abusing Renee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAxNXeldwyA
ReplyDeleteI asked this last night - is Joe the first indie guy to keep his indie name since CM Punk?
ReplyDeleteTJ: I'll presume the TNA stuff in the Observer was discussed last night in the evening thread. Bet Dave's getting some shit online today
ReplyDeleteDamn. Sorry, I didn't notice anyone else made this point earlier. My bad.
ReplyDeleteMeltzer is the sex panther of news. 50% of the time he is right every time.
ReplyDeleteI'm just happy that he gets to keep his name. First time in a LONG time. Since Punk really. Now I know that it would make 0% logic to change it, but I still gave Vince a 50% chance to do it anyway.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget Balor as #1 contender. Just amazing.
ReplyDelete"During the match, the commentators made a statement about Sasha calling
ReplyDeleteherself better than the "legendary" Fabulous Moolah, as if this was some
kind of blasphemous heel statement. I think it's clear that Sasha is by
far a better worker than Moolah ever was, even at this stage of her
career. OH YEAH, I SAID IT."
Was Moolah ever actually thought of as a good worker? I know that the style of wrestling has changed a lot since her day but I can't think of one even halfway decent match I've seen her in.
HHH ... there are times I can't stand him, especially on television. Then I remind myself that he's the reason Devitt, Zayn, Owens, KENTA, and now Samoa Joe are in the WWE.
ReplyDeleteSo if I'm understanding the tag title situation correctly, we have a face team accompanied by a heel woman vs. a heel teem accompanied by a face woman? Although the fans have softened to Carmilla a bit, booing Bliss just seems wrong somehow.
ReplyDeleteEvil is Bliss.
ReplyDeletebest heel in the business right now.
ReplyDeleteYou think they might make room for Zayn vs. Owens at Summerslam if Sami is healthy enough?
ReplyDeleteAs I recall, going by the standards by which women's wrestling was judged in Moolah's heyday, she was pretty revered, although at the time, "worker" was kind of an all-encompassing term and not like it is today, where someone like Chris Benoit (sorry, first example that came to mind) was a great worker but not a great promo and an all-around talented but not legendary performer. Or CM Punk, who was a great storyteller and a reliable promo, but a sloppy and unrefined worker.
ReplyDeleteHad a dream the WM33 main event is Rollins/Kevin Nash/Vader vs. Reigns/Ambrose/Batista... So that's how they're going to sell 103k tickets.
ReplyDeleteJust finished watching, that was fucking awesome yet again. Sasha working the arm nearly brought a tear to my eye, now excuse me while I go buy her entrance theme.
ReplyDeleteI LOL'd during Balor's entrance when the guy in the front row was chanting "Holy Shit" and covering his kids ears.
ReplyDeleteLOL god its nice to have a heel that is just a straight up dickhead.
ReplyDeleteHHH has more or less stated that he wants to get an NXT title match on a WWE PPV, but I think he's slow-playing it so as not to stick, say, Owens/Balor in a death slot between, say, Lesnar/Rollins and Cena/Whoever.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think Zayn/Owens is over now. My guess is Zayn takes more time off (word going around last night was that he may need surgery) and then goes to the main roster. I mean, he's had two title matches with Owens and Owens thoroughly murked him both times. Dude has a barely better batting average against Owens than Alex Riley. He has no claim to another shot at him.
Which is heartbreaking for anyone who watched Zayn claw his way to the belt for a year and then lose it so quickly, but in real life, that happens. Sometimes the bully always wins. The bully is just bigger, stronger and meaner than the good guy and they always win. Sucks, but it's "real."
And to Renee! How could he?!
ReplyDeleteCorey Graves was a pretty shit worker, but he's outstanding as a commentator and I really hope his look doesn't preclude him from a long and prosperous role behind the table.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he'll be keeping it. They introduced Itami as KENTA as well before changing it. I vaguely remember someone reporting they were making an effort not to erase the past or pretend their indie careers never happened (ie Zayn/Owens playing off their indie history together).
ReplyDeleteFar better this definitive booking than the main roster's 50/50. That's what the NXT creative team get; that stories have ups and downs, they're shapes not straight lines.
ReplyDeleteThis t-shirt says different: http://shop.wwe.com/Samoa-Joe-%22Submission-Specialist%22-Authentic-T-Shirt/W09731,default,pd.html?dwvar_W09731_color=black&start=1&q=samoa%20joe
ReplyDeleteI would think it'd be a benefit. Better for WWE to have distinctive 'characters' as broadcasters too, surely?
ReplyDeleteI'm well aware of the t-shirt, he'll probably keep the name for a little longer than KENTA did because it's worth more to the North American audience. But I think it'll change eventually.
ReplyDeleteIron Sheik introduces Virgil to Twitter as only he can:
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/status/601126013955866624
Seconded, he has his opinions, he mentions and explains them, and then moves on. Doesn't dissolve into parroting a key heel phrase over and over, and doesn't come across as intentionally contrarian ala JBL.
ReplyDeleteWWE.com is already selling Samoa Joe shirts:
ReplyDeletehttp://shop.wwe.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-wwe-Site/default/Search-Show?q=samoa
That's a pretty big thing to do for a guy who is going to change his name.
Literally a dream match
ReplyDeleteA 6-man main event at Wrestlemania? Come on. Be real man.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything but one thing you said, and I am pretty annoyed by Punk currently, but to say he's just a "reliable promo" is patently absurd. I agree that he could be sloppy in the ring -- no doubt. But a "reliable promo"? No - top 10 promo all day.
ReplyDeleteAbout TNA's cancellation, Simon from TNAMecca:
ReplyDelete"Especially other "wrestling" fans is pissing me off.
Such an idiotic, piece of crap crowd.
They and Meltzer deserve eachother, they are the cancer of wrestling.
#And that was not an insult, it was just a fact of life."
lol
Ironically Zayn can be saved or moved on easier by losing definitively and use that as part of his character arc versus the 50/50 shit where he isn't better or worse than Owens. Done right, he can be even more of a plucky underdog babyface.
ReplyDeleteJoe has a bigger name in the States than Steen, KENTA or any of those other guys. It would probably be a lot harder to get away with changing his name.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened?
ReplyDeleteExactly, it says more about him that he'd want to fight the guy who badly injured him than if he'd won the first match by fluke (looking at you Cena/Lesnar 2012).
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Never saw anything special about his promos and I realize that's a minority opinion.
ReplyDeleteYou and I may see it that way, but remember, they fired JR multiple times for being "too Southern," so rationality has no place in this discussion from a realistic standpoint.
ReplyDeleteI would say that last part is correct, yes.
ReplyDeleteAnd he gets what he's watching. He understands it because he's done it and can talk from a place of authority about it.
ReplyDeleteMeltzer's reporting that DA has cancelled TNA and it will stop airing in September
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly how Zayn losing is supposed to feel. Heartbreaking. Zayn clawed and clawed to overcome every obstacle and he finally does and wins the NXT title only to come upon the biggest, baddest obstacle in the land and gets demolished. It's set up for Zayn to either move up to the main roster and Owens is built like a monster for someone else, or Zayn completes his redemption and finally beats Owens. Either is awesome.
ReplyDeleteHuh. I assume he's wrong
ReplyDeleteI'd like to take credit for the 'fan with phone filming an attack' idea. Despite the fact that I suggested it for Zayn, and they probably had the idea themselves.
ReplyDeleteYep. I acknowledge that, absolutely. Lots of people love One Direction, too. Justin Bieber has/had a HUGE following. Nickelback has millions of fans. I'm perfectly OK with not being a fan of some things that are massively popular.
ReplyDeleteSamoan Submission Specialist!!! Wrestlemania we can have SSS vs. HHH for the rights to the all initials name!!
ReplyDeleteBruce 'Lee' Fernandes
ReplyDelete4 hours ago
I honestly think I won't be able to sleep until we hear an official word.
Millions of people love The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, and Chuck Berry too. This is a stupid argument.
ReplyDelete"That people like what they like and being OK with what you like is a good thing" is a stupid argument?
ReplyDeleteThis was my very first visit to TNAMecca. And this is what I see.
ReplyDeleteCould you imagine if your Future Self from 2015 visited you during the Reign of Terror and told you that Triple H isn't so bad after all?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how long Joe is going to stick around though because of his age.
ReplyDeleteThey have until September to get one out.
ReplyDeleteSo after this, are there any other surprise debuts left that can pop a crowd? I'm not sure if there are any other big indy names out there on the level of Samoa Joe.
ReplyDeleteAlso, would the crowd have popped if this was a WWE PPV or a non-post Wrestlemania smark crowd?
Great... now the Balor theme is in my head.
ReplyDeleteHas TNA considered marketing Impact to dogs? I know they don't have money to spend, but nobody spends money to watch or attend TNA events anyway. They're home all the time so they won't miss Impact, the ones that attend the shows are usually pretty attentive to what's going on in front of them and easily excited.
ReplyDelete1) Any big name Japanese guy - Okada, Tanahashi, Nakamura, etc
ReplyDelete2) Probably not, but does it matter?
Well don't I feel stupid for calling my local cable company and asking them to carry Destination America now.
ReplyDeleteNope, not my point at all. My point was that "number of fans" and "quality" are completely unrelated, something you seem to agree with.
ReplyDeleteSo I'm not sure why you came in, guns blazing, acting like anything that's a matter of your personal opinion could be a matter of fact or attempting to use the fact that a ton of people want to lap his ballsweat is proof that your opinion is the right one.
You like his promos. I don't. Good.
"The deal to bring Joe into NXT was headed up by Triple H. Joe will continue to work existing and future independent dates, but NXT will have top priority so in theory he could be pulled from an event if Triple H calls. Joe has also come to terms with the company to market Samoa Joe merchandise. They are already selling an official Samoa Joe shirt on WWE.com. The feeling is that if things work out for both parties that the deal could evolve into a full-fledged WWE deal."
ReplyDeleteSo Triple H is actually letting these guys do whatever they want in the interim. That's damn sure a new way for WWE to be doing business.
The Japan guys are FAR less known than anyone realizes.
ReplyDeleteSo is the rumour that TNA is being cancelled on the Destination America network or the whole fed as a whole is being cancelled? I assume the former.
ReplyDeletePossible New Names for Samoa Joe:
ReplyDelete* The Man they call Samoan
*Joey Samoey
*Manu 2.0
Pacific Islander Joe
ReplyDeleteI think Samoa Joe is a special case, which is why he was able to negotiate a sweetheart deal. I can't imagine many other indie talents that would be offered the same terms.
ReplyDelete...maybe Virgil.
That's not a very good hashtag. Is it trending?
ReplyDeletePop an NXT crowd? I'm sure an AJ Styles or Austin Aries could pop an NXT crowd nice and good. Maybe just AJ.
ReplyDeleteThe fed isn't being cancelled, but without a television deal, it's dead.
ReplyDeleteNot by the NXT crowd.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. A strange cult operating on no sleep until September. What could possibly go wrong?
ReplyDeleteSumo Joe
ReplyDelete..cause HE'S FAT!
TNA on Destination WWE Network!
ReplyDeleteSamoan Joe.
ReplyDelete#no
ReplyDeleteImpact will be a youtube exclusive show filmed on Dixie's iphone. Her cell phone provider will be months behind on her phone bill.
ReplyDeleteIf there was EVER a guy to bring in to job out to NXT people, it's Virgil. Make this happen, WWE!
ReplyDeletePossible name for Joe:
ReplyDeleteCharlie Jones
I really like Enzo and Cass. I assume the talking on the way to the ring will eventually get old, but for now, it's awesome.
ReplyDeleteHe just joined Twitter, so he's worldwide now:
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/TheReal_Virgil
I for one am not rooting for TNA's cancellation, but this should tell everyone just how popular wrestling is right now.
ReplyDeleteProbably asking for a tenner to retweet you.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Vince has some spare change in his couch cushions to buy up TNA.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say it was a matter of fact in the least. I don't want to lap his "ballsweat". I said I was pretty annoyed with him for one thing. It was my OPINION that he was a great promo. YOU said "I recognize I'm in the minority". I said that's true. Yes, that doesn't mean that my opinion is any more valid....all it means is that the majority of people like his promos more than you.....which was YOUR point.
ReplyDeleteSo then I agreed with you that you were in the minority, and for some reason this annoyed you and we started this horse crap.
Nice! Looking forward to the improvements in production quality.
ReplyDeleteThe photo filters they have on some of those apps are fantastic these days.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if Balor isn't going to be a one-and-done contender. He can put KO over strong to build to a KO/Joe feud, and move up to the main roster so JBL can shit all over him because 'Murica.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the only way Zack Ryder could get on WWE TV was to buy a ticket to NXT last night:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l44kGUuEsJU
You know, there's money in a pissed-off Zack Ryder running through NXT guys to try to build his career back up.
Well, maybe not money. But there's something.
TNA? You're certainly not alone there.
ReplyDeleteYes, even by the NXT crowd. Put a picture of one up and they couldn't tell. Oh they'd still probably mark out because some consider themselves the next generation of ROH-bots, but they wouldn't know.
ReplyDeleteThat's a really good idea. I dug him trying out for Tough Enough. Honestly, that seems like exactly the kind of thing Vince is talking about with his brass ring stuff if he were, you know, actually honest about that.
ReplyDeleteGreat intro, not much going on in the ring. Hey, it worked for the New Age Outlaws! 6 time tag champs. One in creative, one as a trainer. Both still employed. If I were Enzo and Cass, watch some more Outlaws tape.
ReplyDeleteOoh, I like that idea. Kudos.
ReplyDeleteRhyno and Brian Kendrick have the same type of deal.
ReplyDeleteThe spaces make it the worst hashtag, since all they're tagging is "and."
ReplyDeleteWait....Zack Ryder did a Tough Enough tryout video? Because that's hilariously awesome.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kayfabenews.com/zack-ryders-tough-enough-audition-tape-rejected-2/
ReplyDeleteZack Ryder and Alex Riley = pissed off jobbers out for revenge!
ReplyDeleteHHH has even more autonomy than I thought. Actually surprised that Vince would ever sign off on something like this, even for the minor league.
ReplyDelete"Well, we can't really pay you, but you can charge what you want for autographs after the show."
ReplyDeleteYeah, but they're ex-WWE guys so they already have a WWE connection. Joe is relatively brand new
ReplyDeleteSo is lynch done getting title shots? Cause if so I have to cut her in my fantasy league.
ReplyDeleteSamoa Joe needs to learn to look at the camera when he's giving a promo...no matter how distracting Renee's breasts might be.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEPMryxxcqg
And the Bishoff's are suing TNA for unpaid fees. When it rains it pours.
ReplyDeleteWell, we know how Vince feels about Samoans, so he was on board.
ReplyDeleteWait until he finds out Joe isn't related to Rock or Reigns though...
Looks like they've lightened up on free speech. I like that they want to "protect" members. Eeesh. Trigger warnings are bad enough on serious subjects, but on wrestling sites?
ReplyDelete"I really have to apologize for my outburst earlier. It's been a hectic day overall and the drama tonight pushed me over the edge.
In any case, we don't want you guys to feel that you can't discuss certain things here and as much as we want to protect you from certain things, we realize that it's best if we gave you the freedom to discuss what you'd like as long as you are civil and respectful of others here.
So carry on...if you'd like to talk about the Meltzer "report", feel free to do so and I recommend that you have fun with it. Please don't take anything he reports seriously and feel free to laugh at him and make fun of him."
Pulling blood from a rock at this point.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the more I think about this, the more I like it. It gives Zack a reason to work with the entire roster, too. He can start at the bottom and say he's going to annihilate everyone.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason I enjoy the TNA cancellation stuff is because of how offended the TNA nutjobs get about it, and their vendetta against Meltzer or anyone who says anything negative about it.
ReplyDeleteSo really, it's just the entertainment value of the whole thing.
What does Eric think he's going to get? Eric Young's jock strap?
ReplyDeleteI'm like that with Blue Jay fans. I enjoyed every second of their 2013 World Series turning into a last place finish. But eventually it just gets sad and you pity them.
ReplyDeleteHe should sue ownership of TNA and sell it to Vince.
ReplyDelete